Vivus Denuo wrote:
I don't shoot with ugly models.  There are a number of ways to be ugly.

Wisdom from the master.

You should be GLAD she did not shoot with you.

Some dont like your style, some dont like your concept,.
Some are Divas. Some are too fat, some are too skinny.

So she does not like black people.  The USA is full of hypocrites who dont like black people, or Mexicans ot whatever group they choose to hate.
I avoid STUPID people like the plague.

Scratch her off your list, float her name on the net.

lotusphoto wrote:
if you look at the news, that's what you see, ie:dwb, driving while black, 30% of all black men in the usa are in the system, probation or in-house, is it wrong? of course it's wrong, does it create an impression? yes

Tony Culture Photoz wrote:
Maybe this is what the officials in NYC should point out to the would-have-been-wife of the young man in queens who died when the undercover cops fired 52 shots into the vehicle in which he was an occupant with two of his buddies (both of whom are currently in the hospital, sedated and in serious critical condition, who, by the way were also handcuffed until Sharpton and others demanded that the cuffs be removed). Yes, maybe the commisioner ought to use this excuse as to why these young men were shot for "being black in a car", although NO weapons were found in their vehicle or on their persons. Anyone care to say again how "black people only imagine racism, and things have changed" ?

i didnt say black people imagine racism,

basically i said

dont waste your breath on some hillbilly when there are more important things to do

and, things have changed a lot..

saying things have changed a lot isn't bad, it's like acknowloging the efforts of all the people who have worked hard to reduce the problems that are bothering you..

Michael Pandolfo wrote:
That's why I was asking. Of course people say things outright. Of course people make underhanded comments that you pick up on. I'm certainly not arguing that it doesn't happen or that racism doesn't exist. I was asking what specifically happened that led you to believe she cancelled due to your race?

Michael, if and when a criminal confesses to a crime, why is it necessary to waste taxpayers' money on a trial ? Pass the sentence based on the confession, and move on. Most us do recognise when these things happen. Especially when it's something that happens far more frequently than is actually spoken about.

lotusphoto wrote:
i didnt say black people imagine racism,

basically i said

dont waste your breath on some hillbilly when there are more important things to do

and, things have changed a lot..

saying things have changed a lot isn't bad, it's like acknowloging the efforts of all the people who have worked hard to reduce the problems that are bothering you..

That line wasn't meant for you at all, it was referring to others whose comments I have read in a variety of threads about these forums. I don't think you are a racist at all. If you are, I just don't see it.

LM Photography wrote:

So all people of European descent are racist? Is that what you're saying? If it is I'm pretty offended...just curious though. I've seen my fair share of black racists as well...in fact many of the blacks I've come in contact with are pretty damn racist to a degree. Whites are the only ones recognizable with racism but Blacks, Asians, Indians, Arabs, Jews, etc. are just racist...it's just far overlooked.

Really if this is true tell me about all of genocide that people of African descent have perpetrated against people, which African country manufactures weapons and whom they have declared war on for no other reason than greed. The white children black cops have shoot for no reason or the continent where they killed the inhabitants and then brought another group in bondage to do their work I never said all whites were racist but the system itself insures that those who are not stay pretty quiet because they know ultimately whom it benefits.

IM Photography wrote:
I had a black model refuse to shoot with me because I was black. I never had this problem when I was in Europe.

Yeah, that'll happen too. The sad part about discriminitory practice,  is that it not only rests with a caucasian person. It's a mentality that lies in the mind of us as well. Mind you, none of us are born with it, it's learned behaviour. Some of us even have it, and aren't aware of it, just like a model not knowing she is "the shit" when it comes to her looks and appeal. She was born with it, but simply not aware of her potential. *just had to throw in something about the industry which we are really here for. know what I mean* *lol*

Nick Beneduce wrote:
I had a model one time show up for a shoot and took one look at me and never got out of her car I am a biig old white guy oh well her lose

I don't know for sure, Nick, but I would think she might have been intimidated by your size and her fears of being alone with you,  moreso than that you are white.

Tony Lawrence wrote:
Some of it is because they think you don't know
what your doing and some of it is because many Black models want little to
do with doing anything with Black men and the White models quite often
feel the same way.

Nala Mills wrote:
I agree with everything else but not this. The little time that I've been exposed to this, I've realized that a lot of black photographers play games or they think that black models are stupid. Especially, the really good ones. There have been times when I've had to check a few because they thought that they could talk to me any kind of way. Not all are like this and I have no problems with shooting with black photographers. I guess that it varies from person to person. But I really don't think that most black models want little to do with black men. I can't speak for white models.

Nala, attribute that to their lack of professionalism and their lack of respect for you as a model,  not the fact that they were black.

Tony Culture Photoz wrote:

That line wasn't meant for you at all, it was referring to others whose comments I have read in a variety of threads about these forums. I don't think you are a racist at all. If you are, I just don't see it.

groovy..


we both have to mix up our portfolios a bit..

i just had a shoot with a lovely black woman, i still haven't finished editing.. it was mid oct..

CareLyn Anita wrote:

We are not all that way , some of us even have soul

ROTFLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  That's a classic

lotusphoto wrote:

if being a racist isn't nice then you just insulted an awful lot of people..

there has been slavery in every culture ever.. white, black, yellow, all cultures..

but if you want to get picky, the discussion about how bad slavery is started with white english speaking people in the 1800's

or you can just say - as i say- slavery started with people taking advantage of people, and it will end when people dont want to take advantage of people

You mean the white English people who had slaves started discussing how bad it was? For some reason I think the slaves themselves might have had a few things to say about the atrocious behaviour of the English the Portugese  the Spanish the Dutch and the Belgians etc.long before the 1800's.

Nemi Bea wrote:
1) Some people are really too stupid to breathe. This model appears to fit that description.

2) This doesn't just go for race, it goes for everything, but it would certainly fix this problem from the get go.

During talks, email over a picture of yourself, so the model knows who she is meeting. It's more than fair. I don't like looking for someone that knows what I look like but I don't know what they look like.

I have had more than two white models cancel shoots with ridiculous reasons, and I do have a picture on my page. Although the pic might be a bit intimidating, along with the words written on it. It was in the name of fun though. The way I see it, if someone is really scared of me from my pic, it was well worth not doing or even planning a shoot.

Barron C wrote:
They may not shoot with black photographers but I bet they would have no problem shooting you if you step out of line. I find it a little silly that a grown black man is suprised to find racism anywhere in America or Europe since race as a concept was invented by Europeans wherever they are it is. Maybe that hanging us from trees putting us in prison and policemen killing us without provocation might have served as hints for you. You can only judge people on their past behavior and no matter how far back you go they were racist so shrug it off and keep stepping if it doesn't kill you it only makes you stronger.

bs, this is racist to me, it's insulting.. you owe a lot of people an apology..

btw, you dont have a picture of yourself in your portfolio...

Oliver Cole wrote:
EMG, a few years back a truck driver had an accident on one of our local freeways. He was driving a tanker truck FULL with thousands of gallons of gasoline.  As he lay on the ground, unable to move, preparing himself to be consumed by fire.....three young men ran to his rescue. Ran across 4 lanes of traffic, up to heat, smoke and fire that had MELTED the cement barrier that divides the opposing lanes of traffic.

These 3 men were young black men, the driver was a white man. These 3 men did not see a white man in trouble, they saw a human being. This truck driver did not see 3 black men running to his rescue, but 3 human beings.

SOMEDAY this all that we will seen in ANY of US.

Oliver Cole

There are many white folks who would do the same in a heartbeat. Thanks and nuff respect to them as well.

Chris Beyond wrote:
If it weren't for a certain african american photographer named Jerry Tibbs, we probably would never have heard of Bettie Page...AND he's the one who got her to wear her hair the way we all know and love.

Luckily (and hopefully) these prejudices are dying with the people left in America that still cling to them.

Shutup, you are spoiling another "white" secret.
Betty's pic was first printed in a Harlem newspaper.....nooooooooo jungle fever, jungle fever.
And Tibbs had her do her hair like the famous photos to hide her "big forehead"

So tell her you could have made her famous.

But I admire them both. The year was 1950. They both broke the barriers and made something famous.

Barron C wrote:
You mean the white English people who had slaves started discussing how bad it was? For some reason I think the slaves themselves might have had a few things to say about the atrocious behaviour of the English the Portugese  the Spanish the Dutch and the Belgians etc.long before the 1800's.

the white people who were against slavery started the discussion, and they gave voice to the slaves who -of course, didn't have a voice since they were slaves..

what do you think, that every white person liked slavery and hates blacks?

Nala, attribute that to their lack of professionalism and their lack of respect for you as a model,  not the fact that they were black.

I was referring to his statement. The one about most black women not wanting to have anything to do with black men. I disagreed with that statement and put out reasons as to maybe why they would prefer not shooting with them. Is it wrong to generalize? Yes it is. But these feelings come from past experiences I guess race was just a coincidence just like internet models and flaking.

Chris Beyond wrote:
If it weren't for a certain african american photographer named Jerry Tibbs, we probably would never have heard of Bettie Page...AND he's the one who got her to wear her hair the way we all know and love.

Luckily (and hopefully) these prejudices are dying with the people left in America that still cling to them.

that's right. I saw this about 7 years ago. He discovered her in NYC/coney Island beach. A black cop. Both were admiring each other's body and he convinced her to shoot. The rest is history.

LM Photography wrote:

So all people of European descent are racist? Is that what you're saying? If it is I'm pretty offended...just curious though. I've seen my fair share of black racists as well...in fact many of the blacks I've come in contact with are pretty damn racist to a degree. Whites are the only ones recognizable with racism but Blacks, Asians, Indians, Arabs, Jews, etc. are just racist...it's just far overlooked.

Yes the the people of color all over the world have commited the worse atrocities imaginable to the white European population but the Europeans (known for their forforgiving ways) just overlook it I guess you are superior even in saintlyness.

fashion industry inc wrote:
somebody told me black people are THE most racist people in the world, i see that a lot here in miami

Most blacks who are racist, are hardly in positions to affect whoever they are racist against. What I mean is that just like some people have said "this is America, everyone has a right to do whatever he/she pleases, they can refuse to do business or work with anyone who they do not want to associate with".....who controls most of the economy ? who are the ones submitting applications most ? who are the ones considering the applications ? hope you get it

Oliver Cole wrote:
EMG, a few years back a truck driver had an accident on one of our local freeways. He was driving a tanker truck FULL with thousands of gallons of gasoline.  As he lay on the ground, unable to move, preparing himself to be consumed by fire.....three young men ran to his rescue. Ran across 4 lanes of traffic, up to heat, smoke and fire that had MELTED the cement barrier that divides the opposing lanes of traffic.

These 3 men were young black men, the driver was a white man. These 3 men did not see a white man in trouble, they saw a human being. This truck driver did not see 3 black men running to his rescue, but 3 human beings.

SOMEDAY this all that we will seen in ANY of US.

Oliver Cole

Hi Oliver, I truly feel that in times of trouble or when people need help
color isn't a problem.  Its quite often social situations or in who one works
with.  Very often a photo shoot has nudes involved or some degree of sexual
tension.  Many White models wouldn't feel comfortable with those feelings
and shooting with a Black man.  I don't that makes them racist but a bit
afraid and very cautious.

Anna Jo wrote:

I honestly would have been uncomfortable in a one-on-one setting with a black man a few years ago... joining the Navy has really gotten me out of the samll town mentality, and now all I can say is that I would jump at the chance to work with you. Hopefully the women you're dealing with will encounter a nice black man who makes them re-think their antiquated ideas.

On behalf of the "brothers", thanks for your testimony. (This is certainly not sarcasm either)

Michael Pandolfo wrote:
That's why I was asking. Of course people say things outright. Of course people make underhanded comments that you pick up on. I'm certainly not arguing that it doesn't happen or that racism doesn't exist. I was asking what specifically happened that led you to believe she cancelled due to your race?

LOL, yeah, a scenario: it could be that a model freaks out at the sight of a  photographer holding a disposable camera..not that there's anything wrong with a disposable camera

Barron C wrote:

Yes the the people of color all over the world have commited the worse atrocities imaginable to the white European population but the Europeans (known for their forforgiving ways) just overlook it I guess you are superior even in saintlyness.

you need to talk with a black person who doesn't hate white people, somebody who you trust..

wtf, that actor who played kramer said stuff that he regreted... everyone can change..


when nelson mandela visited beantown i was happy to see he visted a school that was across the street from where i used to live ( dell ave).. where malcom x used to live too..


i'm late for work, hope you lose your anger

Nala Mills wrote:
I was referring to his statement. The one about most black women not wanting to have anything to do with black men. I disagreed with that statement and put out reasons as to maybe why they would prefer not shooting with them. Is it wrong to generalize? Yes it is. But these feelings come from past experiences I guess race was just a coincidence just like internet models and flaking.

oh, ok. BTW, you are one hot sexy model, Nala !

Barron C wrote:

You mean the white English people who had slaves started discussing how bad it was? For some reason I think the slaves themselves might have had a few things to say about the atrocious behaviour of the English the Portugese  the Spanish the Dutch and the Belgians etc.long before the 1800's.

sleves existed long before the mentioned time...  Biblical times there were slaves, and there were slaves in Africa long b4 the Brits and Spaniards arrived... and as I hate to think it these slaves were slaves to Africans and were then sold to traders that would bring them to the states or elsewhere...  and I am not speaking of indentured servants!!!  The demise of a people for race or religion is a huge part of world history and all we can do is fight for the future which is why this thread has potential to be productive,  something people can get a new p.o.v. from.

lotusphoto wrote:

you need to talk with a black person who doesn't hate white people, somebody who you trust..

wtf, that actor who played kramer said stuff that he regreted... everyone can change..


when nelson mandela visited beantown i was happy to see he visted a school that was across the street from where i used to live ( dell ave).. where malcom x used to live too..


i'm late for work, hope you lose your anger

How do you know I am angry oops I forgot white men are also mind readers!

Im'age NY (INY) wrote:
I very rarely reply to ANYTHING on the net seriously BUT for this I will.

This applys to models and photographers alike.

If you can't shoot beyond barriers or differences. If you can only shoot within specifics and boundaries, and I hate to use this cliché... but if you can't shoot outside the box... get yourself another job. It has NOTHING to do with race, color, origins. It has to do with emotions, feeling and yes, the art within the image. From the differences the art is formed. This isn't rocket science but if you can't see it then the assistant managers position at ShoeTown is still open... my suggestion... go apply.

I agree completely with your insight.  I am personally saddened that this incident even came up.  Race, color, origins, religion, age, sexual orientation, demographics, geography, emotions, personal perspectives, all have an integral place in true photographic art.  Personally I LOOK for all these qualities.  Biases have no place, anywhere.  As we were made, we each have the right to feel and be the way we want to be, but if we are biased we deserve to be passed by, and eventually left behind.  As it should be.  Time marches on, and life changes hourly.

I really like EMG's Port.  Good work always shows through.

Project Photography wrote:

I second that!!!  can I do that? or does someone else have to?

You second your own comment?

Legacys 7 wrote:

Funny. Speaking of irrelevant, many models who never see your face will jump all over your port aka jock it, want to shoot but never have a clue that you are black. Trust me, some will let you know that they are surprised that you are. You'll know by their actions.

Once upon a time, I was waiting for a model I'd never met in person, to arrive for a shoot.  While waiting, I found a white cane that one of my studio mates was using as a prop for something or another.  I was playing with that when the model arrived and looked shocked. I still had my sunglasses on and probably looked a lot like a white Stevie Wonder. So I "rolled with the flow" and told her all she had to do was to talk to me, and I'd know where she was, then I could rely on the auto-focus mechanism in the camera to do the rest. She freaked.  :-) I probably shouldn't have done that to her, but her reaction told me that there were some things she wasn't prepared for.  Many models are just young kids, unfortunately, they still have the predjudices of their parents.  Hopefully, they'll get over it.

lotusphoto wrote:

bs, this is racist to me, it's insulting.. you owe a lot of people an apology..

btw, you dont have a picture of yourself in your portfolio...

Call me sensitive but it seems a little weird to apologize for the truth.

Tony Lawrence wrote:

Hi Oliver, I truly feel that in times of trouble or when people need help
color isn't a problem.  Its quite often social situations or in who one works
with.  Very often a photo shoot has nudes involved or some degree of sexual
tension.  Many White models wouldn't feel comfortable with those feelings
and shooting with a Black man.  I don't that makes them racist but a bit
afraid and very cautious.

Actually it's both. Racism equals fear. Like the the MM photographer who posted his experience of a month of preparing a shoot with a MM model via phone, made the deposit via phone. But when she got to the house and saw 'Bubba' standing at the door, she freaked out and replied, 'Omg! I didn't know that you are black.!' lmao! and got the hell up out of there.

Legacys 7 wrote:

Actually it's both. Racism equals fear. Like the the MM photographer who posted his experience of a month of preparing a shoot with a MM model via phone, made the deposit via phone. But when she got to the house and saw 'Bubba' standing at the door, she freaked out and replied, 'Omg! I didn't know that you are black.!' lmao! and got the hell up out of there.

Bubba is NOT acceptable. Many country hicks are called Bubba. I prefer Leroy.