Darren Green wrote:
but where are all the black dudes with cameras?

why dudes?  you could just say brotha's.... right?   do you call white photogs dudes also?  just curious...
I'm sure u meant nothing by it..

Michael Pandolfo wrote:
I'm curious how you could positively attribute that it was because of your race? I'm skeptical that a model would state outright that she didn't want to shoot with you because you were black. And I can't imagine a situation where she would show up, determine you were black, and cancel the shoot on the spot.

I know its hard to believe, but that exact thing has happened to me. I saw the model in her car. She parked for a moment, looked directly at me, and then drove off. LOL. Maybe she just chickened out, but she seemed confident over the phone, and she has done photoshoots before. I was also dressed well, and I wasn't holding an assortment of sex toys or anything like that.

Another person canceled after I sent them a picture of myself, and another person just flat out told me "I don't think I would feel comfortable working with a black filmmaker." This happened back when was working on a film.

Racism still exists. We just have to not tolerate it, nor allow it bother us too much.

Tony Sharp wrote:

I know its hard to believe, but that exact thing has happened to me. I saw the model in her car. She parked for a moment, looked directly at me, and then drove off. LOL. Maybe she just chickened out, but she seemed confident over the phone, and she has done photoshoots before. I was also dressed well, and I wasn't holding an assortment of sex toys or anything like that.

Another person canceled after I sent them a picture of myself, and another person just flat out told me "I don't think I would feel comfortable working with a black filmmaker." This happened back when was working on a film.

Racism still exists. We just have to not tolerate it, nor allow it bother us too much.

lol @ sex toys. your last statement will have to be a combination of both. not tolerate and not always letting it get to you.

Darren Green wrote:
Hell I'll shoot with anyone that wants to work, but going slightly off topic, I actually can't recall ever having met a black photographer in person.

This now has me seriously wondering, am I getting that old persons disease that f**ks your memory (I can't remember what it's called) or have I just never met a black photogrpher in 18 years of shooting in the UK and US?  Shot plenty of black models along the way but where are all the black dudes with cameras?

Hell the more I write this the more curious I get, so if you are a black photographer and you are down the Orlando way any time drop me a line and i'll buy you a beer!! )

How dare you assume that black men can't afford their own beer! Yes, that was sarcasm. Yes, discrimination exists...in many forms and not just skin color.

I picked up a date years back and met her parents. When they found out I was the "bad Italian" they forbid their daughter to go out with me. I was never more proud to be Sicilian.

And on that note, why the hell am I always the last one chosen in the pickup basketball game?

Legacys 7 wrote:

no, never heard of him. i reside in berkely. but there are some that i know more of from history that are from the bay area.

i used to live at university and san pablo when i lived in berkeley, 12 years

Nala Mills wrote:

I agree with everything else but not this. The little time that I've been exposed to this, I've realized that a lot of black photographers play games or they think that black models are stupid. Especially, the really good ones. There have been times when I've had to check a few because they thought that they could talk to me any kind of way. Not all are like this and I have no problems with shooting with black photographers. I guess that it varies from person to person. But I really don't think that most black models want little to do with black men. I can't speak for white models.

Nala, my comments were in general but on a recent trip to Chicago I actually
had a easy time shooting White models.  I was contacted by several Black models.
They claimed to ready to shoot but vanished once I was there.  The White models
were prompt and valued my time.  Many Black models but not all feel that shooting
with Black photographers is a waste of time because they aren't all that good.

Your in Chicago.  Check out Elite or Ford or Arlene Wilson one day.  See how
many Black photographers are on their rounds list.  This in a city over half
Black population.  In fact a model I knew with a well known agency in New York
once told me that she was told not to shoot with Black photographers.  I
do understand what you are hinting at and that goes to the lack of respect
some Black men have for Black women.  All this is in general.

Nemi Bea wrote:
1) Some people are really too stupid to breathe. This model appears to fit that description.

2) This doesn't just go for race, it goes for everything, but it would certainly fix this problem from the get go.

During talks, email over a picture of yourself, so the model knows who she is meeting. It's more than fair. I don't like looking for someone that knows what I look like but I don't know what they look like.

Oh great...another reason for models to no-show lol. Can't we just tell them that we'll be the guy with the huge camera pack and tripod over his shoulder?

fashion industry inc wrote:
somebody told me black people are THE most racist people in the world, i see that a lot here in miami

That somebody was Chris Rock.

Tony Lawrence wrote:
I love women of all colors but some not all that many but some aren't shooting
with Black photographers.  I recall a sister I shot years ago on location.  Several
small Black kids started following us.  She said how cute, these ghetto kids have
never seen something like this before.  This was a sister that worked at a nice
store as a MUA and to me had the same sort of view some of the models here
do.  I've had several models excited and ready to shoot until we spoke. 
Although I don't use Ebonics or slang its not that hard to tell I'm Black and all
of a sudden they are too busy.  One is always in the threads telling people that
she's shocked at this kind of thing or that she is dependable, etc.

I see what you're saying but some black photographers are guilty of it also. From what I've seen, there have been many times when black photographers denied shooting with black women. They would always have something negative to say. It's a shame how we discriminate against each other. But then again it ties to personal experiences. I've contacted a few white photographers about shooting and they basically say, "You're cute but no thanks". Well, not exactly but I can read between the lines. Some even ignore the messsages. Do I get pissed, not really. I just move on and work with the next person. To each his own.

EMG STUDIOS wrote:
WTF is wrong with some of these white models?? You dumb asses.. I experienced just a small whiff of this type of prejudice over the weekend.. Anyone else care to share their thoughts???

I honestly would have been uncomfortable in a one-on-one setting with a black man a few years ago... joining the Navy has really gotten me out of the samll town mentality, and now all I can say is that I would jump at the chance to work with you. Hopefully the women you're dealing with will encounter a nice black man who makes them re-think their antiquated ideas.

Anna Jo wrote:

I honestly would have been uncomfortable in a one-on-one setting with a black man a few years ago... joining the Navy has really gotten me out of the samll town mentality, and now all I can say is that I would jump at the chance to work with you. Hopefully the women you're dealing with will encounter a nice black man who makes them re-think their antiquated ideas.

that's a good point, when people have room to grow, they will..

and if they dont grow, fk 'em..

Tony Lawrence wrote:
Nala, my comments were in general but on a recent trip to Chicago I actually
had a easy time shooting White models.  I was contacted by several Black models.
They claimed to ready to shoot but vanished once I was there.  The White models
were prompt and valued my time.  Many Black models but not all feel that shooting
with Black photographers is a waste of time because they aren't all that good.

Your in Chicago.  Check out Elite or Ford or Arlene Wilson one day.  See how
many Black photographers are on their rounds list.  This in a city over half
Black population.  In fact a model I knew with a well known agency in New York
once told me that she was told not to shoot with Black photographers.  I
do understand what you are hinting at and that goes to the lack of respect
some Black men have for Black women.  All this is in general.

Yeah I know that it was a general statement. I'm just speaking from my perspective. But if I see that you're work will benefit what I'm doing, I'm all for it. A lot of models flake no matter the race. It could be the area that you're in. I hear that Black Chicago models flake a lot and I know that a lot of Black Chicago photographers play games and have bad attitudes. Just my opinion anyway and I love your work.

Nala Mills wrote:

I see what you're saying but some black photographers are guilty of it also. From what I've seen, there have been many times when black photographers denied shooting with black women. They would always have something negative to say. It's a shame how we discriminate against each other. But then again it ties to personal experiences. I've contacted a few white photographers about shooting and they basically say, "You're cute but no thanks". Well, not exactly but I can read between the lines. Some even ignore the messsages. Do I get pissed, not really. I just move on and work with the next person. To each his own.

Of course your right.  Many Black people have reached a point where working
together is a problem.  Notice the lack of well run Black business in the hood.
We won't support each other and that makes me sad.  The White photographers
may feel that they don't want sisters who many feel bring drama and have figures
they may not want.  I recall a well known Black model telling me it was a waste
of time to shoot most Black models and I should focus on White models.

Nala Mills wrote:

Yeah I know that it was a general statement. I'm just speaking from my perspective. But if I see that you're work will benefit what I'm doing, I'm all for it. A lot of models flake no matter the race. It could be the area that you're in. I hear that Black Chicago models flake a lot and I know that a lot of Black Chicago photographers play games and have bad attitudes. Just my opinion anyway and I love your work.

Thanks, Nala.  We need more models like you.  Those that will show up ready to
shoot, no drama, no problems.  There is a guy on this thread.  Tony Sharp I
don't know if you are aware of him but he's good.  He never has responded to
my emails but I think he's talented.  Check him out.

EMG STUDIOS wrote:
WTF is wrong with some of these white models?? You dumb asses.. I experienced just a small wiff of this type of prejudice over the weekend.. Anyone else care to share their thoughts???

I can't say that I've been the victim of model prejudice [to my knowledge].  I can only assume that models who work in my genre [fetish/erotic/nude/et al] are way past trivialities like race by the time I get to them.

Tony Lawrence wrote:
Thanks, Nala.  We need more models like you.  Those that will show up ready to
shoot, no drama, no problems.  There is a guy on this thread.  Tony Sharp I
don't know if you are aware of him but he's good.  He never has responded to
my emails but I think he's talented.  Check him out.

It's a shame that we can't respect it each other yet we demand it all of the time.  You're welcome and thanks. I'll look into to that.

EMG STUDIOS wrote:
WTF is wrong with some of these white models?? You dumb asses.. I experienced just a small wiff of this type of prejudice over the weekend.. Anyone else care to share their thoughts???

Wait...what's wrong with not shooting with "black photographers"?  That's sick...

All kidding aside, racism affects us all.  Nevertheless, things are changing for the better.  Change takes time.  I have traveled the world, and all I can say is that racism is somewhat of a singularity, here in the states.  Other countries just find different reasons to hate someone - but at least it isn't racism.  The outlook on racism has changed dramatically in the last decade, but there is a huge caveat, and that is falling into stereotypes.  Let's face it.  Stereotypes exist for a reason, and that is because MANY people before us (regardless of race - I'm Asian) fit into a specific trend of characterization that society (all races) have categorically classified races into specific "genres".  All races are guilty of this on many different levels.  Some of the stereotypes may be true as a general concept.  Fear continues to propagate the racial bias and what you end up with is a society that secretly (and sometimes not so secretly as in this case) hold a negative bias towards one race or gender out of fear.  I won't say ignorance here, because many times the stereotypes are true, but what this type of "generalization" does not allow for are the "exceptions".

For instance, I am the only asian I know that failed math and can't play tennis.  Most of by friends growing up with either Italian or black.  I now smoke Newports and talk like cousin Vinny.  As society continues to mature, racism will dissipate, but it would be naive to think that it could ever be completely eliminated since fear is the root of this bias.  Bigotry will never die completely, but at least the evolution of our (AMERICAN) society is heading in the right direction.  The problem comes in where the biases can actually be reinforced - look at the demographic analysis reports around Philadelphia - you can get this from any realtor.

Cheer up man!  Do you really want to bring yourself down to their level and get bent out of shape over someone so close minded?  I will bet that it will show in the photos.  Drop the ego, and move on.  It's not worth your time to worry about such things as they are "constants" out in society.  It exists.  Move on.  The only time I've seen anyone pull out a race card is as a last resort.  Once it's flipped, they've already lost...

For myself:

I'm a black man living in a yellow man's body in a white man's world that was taken from the red man...  Time for some action!

-S

lotusphoto wrote:

i used to live at university and san pablo when i lived in berkeley, 12 years

yeah berkeley is cool. alot of hsitory here.

lotusphoto wrote:

that's a good point, when people have room to grow, they will..

and if they dont grow, fk 'em..

I gotta agree with that. that is another part of my belief too.

Nala Mills wrote:
I see what you're saying but some black photographers are guilty of it also. From what I've seen, there have been many times when black photographers denied shooting with black women. They would always have something negative to say. It's a shame how we discriminate against each other.

I go on and on about how I'd love to work with more models of colour -- black, latin, asian...There just aren't a lot of fetish models of colour, sadly.

lotusphoto wrote:

actually, they have a right to be a stupid as they want..
in dec 1962 my dad took us to florida for a vacation, we saw drinking fountains that were marked 'colored' and 'white', i never thought things would be as good as they are today this soon..

I was in Louisiana about 8 years ago and saw places that still had the fountaints marked that way. Entrances,too. Although I do not know if they were kept there for historial accuracy or were actually enforced. I did not go into the places to find out.

Project Photography wrote:

why dudes?  you could just say brotha's.... right?   do you call white photogs dudes also?  just curious...
I'm sure u meant nothing by it..

oh man....I call my mom dude [I am rolling my eyes]

Stacy Leigh wrote:
oh man....I call my mom dude [I am rolling my eyes]

true. one of my friends and brother use that word. I also know a guy on my job who says that alot. I can't call my mother that, she'd killed me.

RONIN Studios wrote:

Wait...what's wrong with not shooting with "black photographers"?  That's sick...

All kidding aside, racism affects us all.  Nevertheless, things are changing for the better.  Change takes time.  I have traveled the world, and all I can say is that racism is somewhat of a singularity, here in the states.  Other countries just find different reasons to hate someone - but at least it isn't racism.  The outlook on racism has changed dramatically in the last decade, but there is a huge caveat, and that is falling into stereotypes.  Let's face it.  Stereotypes exist for a reason, and that is because MANY people before us (regardless of race - I'm Asian) fit into a specific trend of characterization that society (all races) have categorically classified races into specific "genres".  All races are guilty of this on many different levels.  Some of the stereotypes may be true as a general concept.  Fear continues to propagate the racial bias and what you end up with is a society that secretly (and sometimes not so secretly as in this case) hold a negative bias towards one race or gender out of fear.  I won't say ignorance here, because many times the stereotypes are true, but what this type of "generalization" does not allow for are the "exceptions".

For instance, I am the only asian I know that failed math and can't play tennis.  Most of by friends growing up with either Italian or black.  I now smoke Newports and talk like cousin Vinny.  As society continues to mature, racism will dissipate, but it would be naive to think that it could ever be completely eliminated since fear is the root of this bias.  Bigotry will never die completely, but at least the evolution of our (AMERICAN) society is heading in the right direction.  The problem comes in where the biases can actually be reinforced - look at the demographic analysis reports around Philadelphia - you can get this from any realtor.

Cheer up man!  Do you really want to bring yourself down to their level and get bent out of shape over someone so close minded?  I will bet that it will show in the photos.  Drop the ego, and move on.  It's not worth your time to worry about such things as they are "constants" out in society.  It exists.  Move on.  The only time I've seen anyone pull out a race card is as a last resort.  Once it's flipped, they've already lost...

For myself:

I'm a black man living in a yellow man's body in a white man's world that was taken from the red man...  Time for some action!

-S

so many of you have such great points!  We are hard on eachother (blacks) and make it hard to work together.  I am black...I was born in Sweden and have lived in Wales when I came to the states (home of my parents VA area)  the kids that were the hardest to make friends w/ were black...  and that was because I was different and I was happy (always smiling and laughing) the whole ebonics thing never took with me either..   Today I can talk to just about anybody and my friends cover a wide spectrum of races, genders and beliefs... 
my skin is black
my eyes are brown
my head is bald
my smile is genuine
and my brain is creative...and that is the only part a model should care about!!!

Michael Pandolfo wrote:

Oh great...another reason for models to no-show lol. Can't we just tell them that we'll be the guy with the huge camera pack and tripod over his shoulder?

Let's not take things out of context here.  Not defending her, BUT...we still do not have an answer on how all of this transpired.  I could see a model saying that if she felt she was being harassed inappropriately and all other attempts to curb communication were ignored...I have seen countless photogs do this...  The lynch mob mentality doesn't work because we do not have all of the information and thusfar, it has only been one sided...is this not the same type of bias that underlies racism?  believing and casting judgement from a single sided story?

-S

Project Photography wrote:

so many of you have such great points!  We are hard on eachother (blacks) and make it hard to work together.  I am black...I was born in Sweden and have lived in Wales when I came to the states (home of my parents VA area)  the kids that were the hardest to make friends w/ were black...  and that was because I was different and I was happy (always smiling and laughing) the whole ebonics thing never took with me either..   Today I can talk to just about anybody and my friends cover a wide spectrum of races, genders and beliefs... 
my skin is black
my eyes are brown
my head is bald
my smile is genuine
and my brain is creative...and that is the only part a model should care about!!!

hear hear...

Stacy Leigh wrote:

Project Photography wrote:
why dudes?  you could just say brotha's.... right?   do you call white photogs dudes also?  just curious...
I'm sure u meant nothing by it..

oh man....I call my mom dude [I am rolling my eyes] [/quot]


yeah I call my friends dude too...my point was he reffered to white photog...and then black dudes w/ cams... I just found it interesting and had a chuckle!  I see it all the time instead of a hand shake or nice to meet you..every now and then I will get an ignorant person that wants to say 'w'sup brotha'.... so your next ? may be well maybe it's how you look, right?  I am usually when not shooting wearing suits like Armani, Boss...     I don't think Darren meant anything by it but while we were on the subject.... thought I would point out that 1 little thing...

All the best to you Stacy,
-troy

Barron C wrote:
They may not shoot with black photographers but I bet they would have no problem shooting you if you step out of line. I find it a little silly that a grown black man is suprised to find racism anywhere in America or Europe since race as a concept was invented by Europeans wherever they are it is. Maybe that hanging us from trees putting us in prison and policemen killing us without provocation might have served as hints for you. You can only judge people on their past behavior and no matter how far back you go they were racist so shrug it off and keep stepping if it doesn't kill you it only makes you stronger.

So all people of European descent are racist? Is that what you're saying? If it is I'm pretty offended...just curious though. I've seen my fair share of black racists as well...in fact many of the blacks I've come in contact with are pretty damn racist to a degree. Whites are the only ones recognizable with racism but Blacks, Asians, Indians, Arabs, Jews, etc. are just racist...it's just far overlooked.

Project Photography wrote:

so many of you have such great points!  We are hard on eachother (blacks) and make it hard to work together.  I am black...I was born in Sweden and have lived in Wales when I came to the states (home of my parents VA area)  the kids that were the hardest to make friends w/ were black...  and that was because I was different and I was happy (always smiling and laughing) the whole ebonics thing never took with me either..   Today I can talk to just about anybody and my friends cover a wide spectrum of races, genders and beliefs... 
my skin is black
my eyes are brown
my head is bald
my smile is genuine
and my brain is creative...and that is the only part a model should care about!!!

emit Smith? Is that you on here?

LM Photography wrote:

So all people of European descent are racist? Is that what you're saying? If it is I'm pretty offended...just curious though. I've seen my fair share of black racists as well...in fact many of the blacks I've come in contact with are pretty damn racist to a degree. Whites are the only ones recognizable with racism but Blacks, Asians, Indians, Arabs, Jews, etc. are just racist...it's just far overlooked.

most people walking on this planet are guilty of some kind of racism or discrimination...  wheter it be outright or those jokes you share with your pals behind closed doors...  I agree with what you said 100%    and funny enough Sweden was the place where I experienced ni racism personally... and we were the only blacks for miles!!!

Barron C wrote:
They may not shoot with black photographers but I bet they would have no problem shooting you if you step out of line. I find it a little silly that a grown black man is suprised to find racism anywhere in America or Europe since race as a concept was invented by Europeans wherever they are it is. Maybe that hanging us from trees putting us in prison and policemen killing us without provocation might have served as hints for you. You can only judge people on their past behavior and no matter how far back you go they were racist so shrug it off and keep stepping if it doesn't kill you it only makes you stronger.

if being a racist isn't nice then you just insulted an awful lot of people..

there has been slavery in every culture ever.. white, black, yellow, all cultures..

but if you want to get picky, the discussion about how bad slavery is started with white english speaking people in the 1800's

or you can just say - as i say- slavery started with people taking advantage of people, and it will end when people dont want to take advantage of people

Axlf wrote:
Yea a story like that here well look at the news more african americans get into trouble than whites and that's according to the news so they are just afraid they do that to mexican photographers as well it's sad really.

EMG STUDIOS wrote:
AXLF.. what the FUCK are you talking about?? I personally think crime, when committed by people of color, any color; other than white, is commited, it is sometimes blown out of perspective, but I'm kind of okay with that, maybe because I've been trained to expect nothing more from the media..

lotusphoto wrote:
if you look at the news, that's what you see, ie:dwb, driving while black, 30% of all black men in the usa are in the system, probation or in-house, is it wrong? of course it's wrong, does it create an impression? yes

Maybe this is what the officials in NYC should point out to the would-have-been-wife of the young man in queens who died when the undercover cops fired 52 shots into the vehicle in which he was an occupant with two of his buddies (both of whom are currently in the hospital, sedated and in serious critical condition, who, by the way were also handcuffed until Sharpton and others demanded that the cuffs be removed). Yes, maybe the commisioner ought to use this excuse as to why these young men were shot for "being black in a car", although NO weapons were found in their vehicle or on their persons. Anyone care to say again how "black people only imagine racism, and things have changed" ?