Patrick Walberg wrote:
Yes, yes you are a human being, and so am I.  Modeling is an activity, NOT a thing that we call people.  There are NO MODELS and NO PHOTOGRAPHERS.  As human beings, we do pick up cameras every so often and take pictures of other people who do an activity that we call modeling. Those are the facts as I know them!

Ok, FYI: I was not at a photo shoot. I was at a store buying a hamper in my sweat pants and flip flops with my glasses on.

Proceeding wit more yawning cause suddenly the off topic discussion where debates actually go somewhere seem so much more enlightning:

Ransom J wrote:

The majority of advantages won't be as obvious as someone walking up and dropping 10,000 bucks in your lap because you make his dick hard.  Society doesn't work that way.  The advatages of being attractive are things that you honestly won't even see most times but it doesn't mean it's there.

In those studies they showed how if there are two applicants with identical resumes and credits, the one that is considered "more attractive" will almost always get the job over the "less attractive" one.

They showed in this study that people are generally nicer, more patient and even more willing to TRUST  people that they found attractive without merit or cause.  This was even true in children.  Even as young as one month old, babies had a recorded better temperment with "attractive people"  pictures  placed in their face rather than unattractive ones.

Mindsets like that allow life to be a lot easier than it COULD be.  So you keep thinking that being pretty hasn't gotten you shit in your life time.

But Ransom, I don't care if people are nicer, more patient or more willing to trust me.  Seriously.  Because I'm a bitch, so it's not gonna help them anyway.  I've heard of those studies, but ignored them because the only thing I want to hear about is the studies talking about the guy handing me 10 grand cuz I got his dick hard.  Is that so wrong?  Seriously, is it?

David Pankhurst Photo wrote:
Oh for crying out loud, get over it.  There are creeps in every line of work.  Maybe there are more in the art/photography/modelling industry because we are surrounded by attractive men and women 24/7.  However, if you can't handle it by 22yrs. of age, you are in for a miserable time.  Compensate by thinking of all the nice, decent photographers and models you meet.  And, incidentally, I found your age-related comments offensive to say the least...I am certainly old enough to be your father and could easily have found myself commenting on your looks or figure in a shoot...on the other hand, with an attitude like yours, probably NOT!

Yes, yes there are.  That is an understatment oif I ever heard one!

Recently I had a booth set up at an event at a big city that I had not been to before.  I hire models to promote my model listing website.  A city police officer came over with his buddy and they were trying to arrange for a date with one of my hired models.  She told me about after they left.  I don't think they were vice because they were in uniform, but I have personally witnessed cops drinking and doing drugs on the job.  There are good cops and bad cops.  I thought about going into law enforcement myself, but I would not be a good cop!  ROFLMAO!

Melissa Lynnette wrote:

But Ransom, I don't care if people are nicer, more patient or more willing to trust me.  Seriously.  Because I'm a bitch, so it's not gonna help them anyway.  I've heard of those studies, but ignored them because the only thing I want to hear about is the studies talking about the guy handing me 10 grand cuz I got his dick hard.  Is that so wrong?  Seriously, is it?

Yeah it is wrong if you can't see how those studies SHOW you how you might not get a 10 grand check in one drop, but the advantages you get are the equivalent to it over time.  Some times a lot MORE than 10 grand.

Melissa Lynnette wrote:

But Ransom, I don't care if people are nicer, more patient or more willing to trust me.  Seriously.  Because I'm a bitch, so it's not gonna help them anyway.  I've heard of those studies, but ignored them because the only thing I want to hear about is the studies talking about the guy handing me 10 grand cuz I got his dick hard.  Is that so wrong?  Seriously, is it?

In fact Melissa, you are curently involved in a profession/hobby that allows you to take full USE of the fact that being attractive gets you shit.

In this worl of web modeling we do TFP.  Some more than others.  I don't do it any more unless a girl is just drop dead, OMG, mind blowingly goregeous or she fits a look for a project that i'm doing.  Now lets say I wantd to shoot you and you wanted to shoot with me and i found you  drop dead, OMG, mind blowingly gorgeous.  That's money you wouldn't have to pay to get pics you wanted.  Essentially your looks just bought you a free pass que no?

Ransom J wrote:

Yeah it is wrong if you can't see how those studies SHOW you how you might not get a 10 grand check in one drop, but the advantages you get are the equivalent to it over time.  Some times a lot MORE than 10 grand.

But how specific is it?  Am I guaranteed these advantages?  If I'm still broke in 20 years can I demand recompense from someone?  I'm being a smart ass because I'm exhausted and you know I adore you Ransom, but I'm sick of being told that I have it better because I'm cute when I just don't see it.  My job sucks, my life sucks and being refused sympathy because I don't make people wince when they look at me just isn't all it's cracked up to be.

Patrick Walberg wrote:
Yes, yes you are a human being, and so am I.  Modeling is an activity, NOT a thing that we call people.  There are NO MODELS and NO PHOTOGRAPHERS.  As human beings, we do pick up cameras every so often and take pictures of other people who do an activity that we call modeling. Those are the facts as I know them!

ANNABELLA wrote:
Ok, FYI: I was not at a photo shoot. I was at a store buying a hamper in my sweat pants and flip flops with my glasses on.

Proceeding wit more yawning cause suddenly the off topic discussion where debates actually go somewhere seem so much more enlightning:

Annabella, I was being funny ... just sarcastically so.  The point is that anyone can stand there in a clothing store and say they "are a model" or "a photographer" when it's nothing more than another label.  I don't even like to call myself names like "photographer!"  Photography is something that I just happen to do and make money at just like writing and publishing which are also activities I do to make an income.  When it is all said and done, we are all just human.  We are all the same inside.  We are ALL ONE PEOPLE!  I live that philosophy everyday!

Melissa Lynnette wrote:

But how specific is it?  Am I guaranteed these advantages?  If I'm still broke in 20 years can I demand recompense from someone?  I'm being a smart ass because I'm exhausted and you know I adore you Ransom, but I'm sick of being told that I have it better because I'm cute when I just don't see it.  My job sucks, my life sucks and being refused sympathy because I don't make people wince when they look at me just isn't all it's cracked up to be.

Check my last post.  You're expecting too much for JUST being cute.  Nothign comes THAT easy, unless you're going to marry a 90 year old billionairre and who wants to look at 90 year old balls every night?

Ransom J wrote:

In fact Melissa, you are curently involved in a profession/hobby that allows you to take full USE of the fact that being attractive gets you shit.

In this worl of web modeling we do TFP.  Some more than others.  I don't do it any more unless a girl is just drop dead, OMG, mind blowingly goregeous or she fits a look for a project that i'm doing.  Now lets say I wantd to shoot you and you wanted to shoot with me and i found you  drop dead, OMG, mind blowingly gorgeous.  That's money you wouldn't have to pay to get pics you wanted.  Essentially your looks just bought you a free pass que no?

  This is why I love you.  But I could just as easily say that if I was ugly I wouldn't even bother trying to model.    I do see your point though.

Patrick Walberg wrote:
I don't even like to call myself names like "photographer!"  Photography is something that I just happen to do and make money at just like writing and publishing which are also activities I do to make an income.  When it is all said and done, we are all just human.  We are all the same inside.  We are ALL ONE PEOPLE!  I live that philosophy everyday!

Well said( by the way I freelance write myself but I hate even saying that cause boom! What's the first person someone asks if you write: are you publised?) I'm like yeah, but not on the NY times bestseller list kind of published or nothing. Anyways, I too hate saying "I model" If I must, I'll say I am pursuing modeling as if I have not quite done it yet but that does not work much either.

Ransom J wrote:

Check my last post.  You're expecting too much for JUST being cute.  Nothign comes THAT easy, unless you're going to marry a 90 year old billionairre and who wants to look at 90 year old balls every night?

Read the one below yours.    And no 90 year olds, I'm a bad gold digger.  I already tried that when I was 18.
And it's not that I'm expecting anything just because I'm cute.  I just see it like, if you claim there are advantages, I wanna see em.  Something abstract like people will be nicer to me doesn't cut it. 

Ransom J wrote:
Nothign comes THAT easy, unless you're going to marry a 90 year old billionairre and who wants to look at 90 year old balls every night?

What's wit all the sexual references to body parts?

wolff wrote:
zzzzzzzzzzzzz

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Luminos wrote:

Not really.  My name is James Kirk.  I hear the jokes daily.

Most often asked:  "What's the middle initial."

Since I work with a very, very, very nerdy crowd, I don't scream at them, or otherwise belittle the comments.  I make the situation work for me.  It makes sure they remember me.

And not as the person who flew off the handle, but as the one that had a good comeback.  (I reserve flying off the handle for other topics.  Usually bad decision making.)

I particularly find that, after taking it good-naturedly - it will work to my advantage.  I've lost track of how many free upgrades for rental cars I've gotten from Avis because some Trekie behind the counter got an attack of the guilts for comments made.

So grow up.  If you intend to be in the modeling business, better learn to handle the attention with grace - because you can't pick and choose who looks.

Wow!  That is so logical that I thought your first officer Spock wrote it!   

Aww man .. you must get a lot of people who don't even believe you?  But if we can't laugh at ourselves, then life ain't worth living!

Melissa Lynnette wrote:

Read the one below yours.    And no 90 year olds, I'm a bad gold digger.  I already tried that when I was 18.
And it's not that I'm expecting anything just because I'm cute.  I just see it like, if you claim there are advantages, I wanna see em.  Something abstract like people will be nicer to me doesn't cut it. 

You're getting them, you just aren't acknowledging them.

ANNABELLA wrote:

What's wit all the sexual references to body parts?

Old balls.

Ransom J wrote:

You're getting them, you just aren't acknowledging them.

Ok, I'll acknowledge one.  Today, my friend and I went to a casting.  We didn't want to pay for parking, so we flirted with some guys and they let us park in their restaurants parking lot, even though there was a huge sign that said we couldn't unless we were patrons.  Is that better?  My stubborn mood is fading. 

Melissa Lynnette wrote:
Being pretty didn't pay for me to go to college, I have student loans.  Being pretty has not made my life easier in any way, sorry.  Maybe I'm in the wrong life.
And getting hit on isn't the worst thing I put up with all day, but it sure doesn't make me less willing to hit the vodka when I finally get home.

Melissa Lynnette wrote:

But how specific is it?  Am I guaranteed these advantages?  If I'm still broke in 20 years can I demand recompense from someone?  I'm being a smart ass because I'm exhausted and you know I adore you Ransom, but I'm sick of being told that I have it better because I'm cute when I just don't see it.  My job sucks, my life sucks and being refused sympathy because I don't make people wince when they look at me just isn't all it's cracked up to be.

Being a attractive women carries ALL kind of advantages.  Things you may not
be aware of at your tender age.  Notice your profiles nice images (no offense)
but you are mega fine so there are lots of comments.  You may choose to not use what I call the power of the booty and I'm not saying being sexual but all attractive women have this power its what causes men to buy them drinks at
clubs believe me its not the fact that you know sports or can discuss the current
political climate.

Howard Garcia wrote:

Hmm...throughout this thread you've made negative references about older photographers, my guess is that you only shoot with the young guys.

You got something against older photographers?

ummmm....what???  negative refrences about older photographers...pretty sure if my eyes are working correctly it says 40-something year old undressing you with their eyes, not 40-something year old photographer doing a shoot with you.  unless your saying that it's perfectly normal that a photographer be undressing you with their eyes the whole time.

Tony Lawrence wrote:
Being young and pretty is a gift that doesn't last long so enjoy it and if
some old dude (I'm over 40) checks out your bum well don't be offended its
human nature.  Men hit on women hey it happens.  One more thing.  Models have
been discovered in shopping malls, at stores and walking down the street. 
Be polite (it seems you were) to everyone.  I have daughters around your age
and older and its hard enough to talk to them much less trying to date someone
their age (married guy, anyway) I think men that old look silly hitting on women
that young but in other countries men often marry women much younger.

Right on Tony, right on! 

Melissa Lynnette wrote:

Ok, I'll acknowledge one.  Today, my friend and I went to a casting.  We didn't want to pay for parking, so we flirted with some guys and they let us park in their restaurants parking lot, even though there was a huge sign that said we couldn't unless we were patrons.  Is that better?  My stubborn mood is fading. 

How many shots in your profile did you pay for?  if it wasn't more than half then don't give me no tripe about not seeing the advatages of being pretty.

Tony Lawrence wrote:

Being a attractive women carries ALL kind of advantages.  Things you may not
be aware of at your tender age.  Notice your profiles nice images (no offense)
but you are mega fine so there are lots of comments.  You may choose to not use what I call the power of the booty and I'm not saying being sexual but all attractive women have this power its what causes men to buy them drinks at
clubs believe me its not the fact that you know sports or can discuss the current
political climate.

Tony, I love you too.  You just made me realize why I don't get it.  My boyfriend makes it a point not to let me control him because I'm gorgeous and he adores me.  Bastard.  He's ruined being pretty for me.
And these days, a man will buy a drink for the chick he has the greatest chance of taking home.  This is no longer just a pretty girl.  I haven't been bought a drink in ages because I make it known that I'm not interested and no one is gettin my goodies.  I have to get drunk on my own dime.

Melissa Lynnette wrote:

Maybe I'm just too young, but I don't get it.  Who is James Kirk?

And who said anything about flying off the handle?  Just because I vent on the internet, doesn't mean I roar at people in real life.

Does the old TV show Startrek sound familier?  Or the movies than came after?

Rachelle Anita wrote:
ummmm....what???  negative refrences about older photographers...pretty sure if my eyes are working correctly it says 40-something year old undressing you with their eyes, not 40-something year old photographer doing a shoot with you.  unless your saying that it's perfectly normal that a photographer be undressing you with their eyes the whole time.

Thanks Rachelle but you know how it is on MM. Photogs can bash all day but models can't speak their mind.

I age-discriminate they say: even though the love of my life is as old as dirt: oops! There I go again! 

Melissa Lynnette wrote:
Patrick,

I know what he looks like!!  He's always on the tv you know.

Cool, well you've seen the guy who played Captain Kirk on TV commercials many times too, I would presume?

Patrick Walberg wrote:
I think men that old look silly hitting on women
that young but in other countries men often marry women much younger.

Right on Tony, right on! 

Well, in my daddy's country it to is the culture to marry young girls off. But like he always says: When in Rome....

In other words..'aint no fella looking at my daughter up and down'

Melissa Lynnette wrote:

Sorry, I don't want any photographer I work with undressing me with his eyes, no matter his age.  Is that appropriate or professional?  Is the model going to feel comfortable working with you if she can tell you're making it sexual?  I doubt it.

Does that go for female photographers too?

Ransom J wrote:

How many shots in your profile did you pay for?  if it wasn't more than half then don't give me no tripe about not seeing the advatages of being pretty.

Melissa gives a sheepish grin as she say: It was all TFCD, I haven't paid a photographer since '04.  Ah, the stubborn mood is almost gone now.

Patrick Walberg wrote:

Does that go for female photographers too?

Um..yeah I would assume so unless the model is bi-sexual or something. That's a bit of a silly question

Patrick Walberg wrote:

Cool, well you've seen the guy who played Captain Kirk on TV commercials many times too, I would presume?

No, or if I have I don't realize it.  But I know what star trek is so that's a start right?

Melissa Lynnette wrote:

I might have been, but being the only black girl until I was in the 7th grade meant whatever prettiness was there wasn't appreciated/noticed until I was in high school.  So until being pretty can provide actual monetary perks, any other advantages you claim comes with it mean bubkus to me.    Now, if my account manager at Visa and SallieMae go "oh Melissa, you're so pretty so we're ignoring your debt" or the guy at the Cadillac dealership says "here you go sexy girl, here's an Escalade truck so you don't have to ride the bus anymore" you're not gonna see me being that overjoyed about being pretty.  My life sucks just as much as that ugly chick's down the street.  Actually more, since she has a car.

In some ways, I understand where you are coming from.  Having been without a car, a job, or a place to live, I've learned how to survive!  Oh ... fortunately I have never been without all three of those at the sametime!    You gotta roll with life or else it will roll you!

My current muse (favorite model) is a lovely lady without a car.  Her looks have not gotten her that nice big luxury car .. yet!

Melissa Lynnette wrote:
Wow, we're really taking this thing to the max. 
Another advantage:  Meeting celebrities when their bodyguards aren't supposed to be letting you in.

Oh! And getting into the club at half price or sometimes for free.

And, getting one of the security guards to get you food after you get the munchies once you been inside for like 3 hours dancing and stuff.

But that's all I can think of I've gotten. Anyone else?

Melissa Lynnette wrote:

Melissa gives a sheepish grin as she say: It was all TFCD, I haven't paid a photographer since '04.  Ah, the stubborn mood is almost gone now.

Case closed.

ANNABELLA wrote:

Oh! And getting into the club at half price or sometimes for free.

And, getting one of the security guards to get you food after you get the munchies once you been inside for like 3 hours dancing and stuff.

But that's all I can think of I've gotten. Anyone else?

How about the dorm manager liking you better than your ugly, surly suitemates, so when they complain, he ignores them?  That may have been how he treated everyone though, because he treated the boys the same way.