LiliOPhoto wrote:
Don't assume people want to get into your pants.

That's the silliest thing I've read all day. Oh, you weren't talking to me. Nevermind.

I'm Batman.

Melissa Lynnette wrote:
I just want to say, for the record, that I don't like it when anybody hits on me, no matter what they look like.

Aww, damn. I was going to ask you if you wanted to go somewhere to make out.

ANNABELLA wrote:
See, I can't quite understand that. I mean a teenaged boy? I never hear of a lesbian trying to get wit an underage girl. What is this world coming to!

Yeah, yeah...that sh*t is old as dirt. Priests have been screwing choirboys since the church began. Maybe now we should turn this into a gender specific argument and broaden the spectrum, not just relate it specificaly to "creepy" photographers.

Funny, I posted on the first page when I first saw this thread. I was quick to see that this would de-evolve into mud slinging. Curosity brought me back and all I see is the OP back peddling with cutesy, witty remarks.

Honey, you should have bowed out gracefully a few pages back while you still had some grace.

ANNABELLA wrote:
Ok, so I have a bash for all the "Creepy Photgraphers" (da da dum) out there.

So I'm out shopping today at one of my favorite stores (well not really, but when you don't live in the suburbs anymore and you now live downtown your choice of shopping malls are limited.) And there's this 40-something year old guy who works there whose always saying 'hi', how are you and what-not. FYI: to all the men out there: a girl knows when you are just trying to be nice or if you are looking for something more than just wanting to know how she is doing today. But I've ignored it-till today. Today, I just wanted to buy a new hamper for my house. Not chit-chat wit the creepy ol' guy in the sportswear section.

Well, too make a long story short-we get into a conversation about modeling (and usually I NEVER, ever tell people I model because 9 times out of 10 they will claim they either are or know someone who is somebody that is some big famous person in the buisness that I should know. )Well this guy claimed to be such. And one thing I've learned from a good friend of mine whose been in this buisness for years is that: "Any photgrapher who claims to be or know all or most of the big names in the buisness is either A. Lying B. Trying to get in your pants or C. A douchebag for wanting to brag and ya probably dont' wanna work wit him anyway

Well I think this guy fell under category A cause he kept trying to convince me that I should be trying to get into Smooth and King magazine cause of my "fine body") Gross! I don't wanna hear that from someone old enough to be my damn daddy!!

He even insisted that I better "recognize" the shift in the modeling industry.  (Claiming that more and more girls are breaking into the hig fashion buisness by being more risque and sexual-a la booty shots) and that instead of geering towards being signed with a commercial agency I should look towards the more urban side of modeling because of my "skin tone" (wow-talk about sterotyping)  and the commercial agencies will be banging down doors later to sign me once I break into music videos and so on!!

Oh, and he insisted that he followed America's next top model like it was the bible cause it was soo much like the real modeling world. I tried to explain to him that the show is 90% reality show and he shot back that I was only 22 and knew nothing about a 20 year veteran as himself. (But he's a cashier with a bendable buisness card with Photography spelled wrong on it) I see.

I see your point. I agree with it as well. Those who don't really don't matter in your career or life. Or perhaps anyone elses either.

ANNABELLA wrote:
But how do you expect a model to react when a "photgrapher" is obviously sexually interested in her, and after asking about her relationship status insits that "oh by the way, I would love to shoot you sometime?"  I've had the oppurtunity of working with great photographers. Many that have dressed me while in my bra and underwear and I never once felt uncomfortable but a women's instict kicks in when something aint right.

1. You said you thought the guy was creepy ("And there's this 40-something year old guy who works there whose always saying 'hi', how are you and what-not.".
2. You got into a conversation with him.
3. You said you identified yourself as a model
3A: Why? If you thought he was 'creepy', why do so?)
3B: "and usually I NEVER, ever tell people I model "--how can one usually NEVER?

Anything after #1 could have been avoided. If the guy is--or even just seems--creepy, why did you get into a conversation with him? It's a voluntary act on your part.

Sure, maybe the guy is a creep. But if you hadn't gotten into a conversation about modeling, everything else would have been moot--some guy you could have easily avoided in the first place seems creepy to you.

Now, of course, you can accuse photographers of being creepy--because some you chatted with some guy in the mall you already thought was creepy, told him you were a model, and he said he was a photographer.

ANNABELLA wrote:
A man can look but there is a level of staring that makes me uncomfortable and that is just me. i'm still exploring my sexuality and learning to understand it and so therefore I am not all "whooo...look at me in my skinny jeans baby!"

You have the right to be offended. If you exercise this right, anything said to you may be twisted by you to permit you to take further offense. If you cannot muster the energy to be offended, someone else may be offended in your name. During any discussion, you may decide at any time to exercise this right, not answer any questions, and leave in a huff.

Your right to be offended, however, does not require anyone else to care that you are offended.

Rossi Photography wrote:
Wow! This is a funny thread! You guys are funny.

I totally understand where she's coming from, though. Yes, it's flattering sometimes to be gawked at, but us women know when the dude's creepy. We have that instinct.

Then why did she get into a conversation with him?

Ransom J wrote:
If you REALLY think that being pretty hasn't afforded you some advantages in life then you MUST have been pretty all your life

ANNABELLA wrote:
What does being pretty do for a girl? Please help me understand so maybe I can be just a little bit more vain as I go about my daily activites cause I sure don't think about such a thing.

One of the funny things about privilege is that those that have it, typically don't realize they have it, hate to learn the dynamics of it, and often try and deny it exists.

Patrick Walberg wrote:
I agree with you, except now the teenaged boys have to worry about creepy old Congressmen hitting on them! 

Actually when I was a teenaged boy, I had a female teacher hit on me ... and it was pretty creepy to me back then!  She didn't get too far with me.  So forgive and forget.

You are wrong to thing that only young women get hit on by people they don't want to be with or even talk to.  Young men get it too!  You are closed minded if you don't understand that.  Sex is a strong drive for both sexes no matter what age or preferences one has.  Some people just have no control.

In the good ol' days you refer to, girls were often mothers by 15 and in certain societies, young boys were being more than hit on by creepy philosophers.

I would imagine that given the expected life span for most of human history, there is a drive to mate/screw those that are most nubile.   Is this creepy or is it part of the human condition of survival of the species that because of current social and sexual morals has been put into a negative context?  (Current and ex-anthropology and history majors are encouraged to reply to this question).


One thing I have noticed in my years, is that there is creepy and then there is CREEPY.  Overt creeps are one thing, but the biggest CREEPS I've met are the ones that you don't "vibe" as being the creeps.   


The other thing I've noticed is that "creepy old men" and "creepy ugly men" are often perceived of as "acceptable" depending on how much money or perceived societal acceptance (success) they have.   Therefore, if the person hitting on the OP had been a smoldering hot male driving a 80k car, dressed in Armani, and owned the supermarket, then the "creep" factor would be more acceptable or even ignored.

Meehan wrote:
I take umbrage that this thread went on so long after I went to sleep. I take umbrage with Batman for not alerting me with the Bat light. I take umbrage that Ransom J turned out to be the hero in this thread. And finally, I take umbrage with the OP for her continued reference to her boyfriend, his age and beer belly lifestyle.

"You keep using that word...I do not think it means what you think it means..."

:-D

Rich Tull wrote:

"You keep using that word...I do not think it means what you think it means..."

:-D

um‧brage  /ˈʌmbrɪdʒ/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[uhm-brij] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1.    offense; annoyance; displeasure: to feel umbrage at a social snub; to give umbrage to someone; to take umbrage at someone's rudeness.

Kevin Connery wrote:

ANNABELLA wrote:
But how do you expect a model to react when a "photgrapher" is obviously sexually interested in her, and after asking about her relationship status insits that "oh by the way, I would love to shoot you sometime?"  I've had the oppurtunity of working with great photographers. Many that have dressed me while in my bra and underwear and I never once felt uncomfortable but a women's instict kicks in when something aint right.

1. You said you thought the guy was creepy ("And there's this 40-something year old guy who works there whose always saying 'hi', how are you and what-not.".
2. You got into a conversation with him.
3. You said you identified yourself as a model
3A: Why? If you thought he was 'creepy', why do so?)
3B: "and usually I NEVER, ever tell people I model "--how can one usually NEVER?

Anything after #1 could have been avoided. If the guy is--or even just seems--creepy, why did you get into a conversation with him? It's a voluntary act on your part.

Sure, maybe the guy is a creep. But if you hadn't gotten into a conversation about modeling, everything else would have been moot--some guy you could have easily avoided in the first place seems creepy to you.

Now, of course, you can accuse photographers of being creepy--because some you chatted with some guy in the mall you already thought was creepy, told him you were a model, and he said he was a photographer.


You have the right to be offended. If you exercise this right, anything said to you may be twisted by you to permit you to take further offense. If you cannot muster the energy to be offended, someone else may be offended in your name. During any discussion, you may decide at any time to exercise this right, not answer any questions, and leave in a huff.

Your right to be offended, however, does not require anyone else to care that you are offended.

Very well stated, Kevin.

I thought that it was odd that if the "creepy" photographer said that he knew people in the business, he's creepy because he's bragging, but if she just happens to mention that she is a model, she isn't bragging?

Just because you're 22 and pretty, doesn't mean that you can't be creepy!

donald vance wrote:
this entire thread, after the original post, is an affront to Human Dignity..........

Not according to Batman.

I'm Batman.

ANNABELLA wrote:
Ok, so I have a bash for all the "Creepy Photgraphers" (da da dum) out there.

So I'm out shopping today at one of my favorite stores (well not really, but when you don't live in the suburbs anymore and you now live downtown your choice of shopping malls are limited.) And there's this 40-something year old guy who works there whose always saying 'hi', how are you and what-not. FYI: to all the men out there: a girl knows when you are just trying to be nice or if you are looking for something more than just wanting to know how she is doing today. But I've ignored it-till today. Today, I just wanted to buy a new hamper for my house. Not chit-chat wit the creepy ol' guy in the sportswear section.

Well, too make a long story short-we get into a conversation about modeling (and usually I NEVER, ever tell people I model because 9 times out of 10 they will claim they either are or know someone who is somebody that is some big famous person in the buisness that I should know. )Well this guy claimed to be such. And one thing I've learned from a good friend of mine whose been in this buisness for years is that: "Any photgrapher who claims to be or know all or most of the big names in the buisness is either A. Lying B. Trying to get in your pants or C. A douchebag for wanting to brag and ya probably dont' wanna work wit him anyway

Well I think this guy fell under category A cause he kept trying to convince me that I should be trying to get into Smooth and King magazine cause of my "fine body") Gross! I don't wanna hear that from someone old enough to be my damn daddy!!

He even insisted that I better "recognize" the shift in the modeling industry.  (Claiming that more and more girls are breaking into the hig fashion buisness by being more risque and sexual-a la booty shots) and that instead of geering towards being signed with a commercial agency I should look towards the more urban side of modeling because of my "skin tone" (wow-talk about sterotyping)  and the commercial agencies will be banging down doors later to sign me once I break into music videos and so on!!

Oh, and he insisted that he followed America's next top model like it was the bible cause it was soo much like the real modeling world. I tried to explain to him that the show is 90% reality show and he shot back that I was only 22 and knew nothing about a 20 year veteran as himself. (But he's a cashier with a bendable buisness card with Photography spelled wrong on it) I see.

That is too damn funny and you are too damn nice.  LOL, let's just say I probably would've been asked to leave )

Ched wrote:

Not according to Batman.

I'm Batman.

rotffl!!!!
you ain't batmaN! i met batmaN. we split a 40 in times square. he told me to watch out for hucksters coppin' his schtick, but foolio me din' condon' 'im much!!!

Caroline A Martin wrote:
Personally, for the photogs who really ARE photogs for the right reasons ....

I was hoping this would get answered too. I wondered what the right reasons were.

ANNABELLA wrote:
No, I'M A HUMAN BEING AND AM TIRED OF YOU STARING AT MY ASS EVERYTIME I WALK THROUGH THE JUNIORS SECTION AND AFTER YOU FIND OUT I HAVE A BOYFRIEND YOU CONICIDENTALLY INSIST THAT YOU JUST ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY WOULD LOOOVE TO SHOOT ME." (IN BETWEEN QUICK GLANCES DOWN MY CHEST)

What's funny is that it's usually the girls wearing low cut tops and crotch-skimming skirts that say stuff like this.

Know why there's more model bashing than photographer bashing?  It's because the great majority of models/wanna be's are probably in the 18-23(25?) range, and those are some of the dumbest and most irresponsible years in the life of any human..

They stay stupid stuff like what's in the quoted paragraph above knowing full well that the day that they'd really be upset is the day that guys *stopped* staring. ;p

As hardships go, "People keep looking at me" comes right before "I have to wipe my own ass".

Rich Tull wrote:
"You keep using that word...I do not think it means what you think it means..."

:-D

Meehan wrote:
um‧brage  /ˈʌmbrɪdʒ/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[uhm-brij] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1.    offense; annoyance; displeasure: to feel umbrage at a social snub; to give umbrage to someone; to take umbrage at someone's rudeness.

What a perfectly primitive thread to be hauling in such hubris. 
and this was the funniest part

This one is no longer entertaining

It is just sad

Melvin Moten Jr wrote:
Threads like this make me so happy to be working in fetish/bondage...We never have stupid/catty bickering contests like this.

Good luck you guys...you're all gonna need it.

Yes indeed,   I  feel compelled to report how creepy this thread makes me feel. 
I've not been creeped out by a thread quite as bad as this in a long time.
Its just creepy to think that some models would accuse you of things.
Because i'm older I find that I don't see things the way I once did.
Now because of this thread, I may have to stop shooting women under 40 or is it 50.  I may have to go to counselling now too.
GEEEEEeeeeeazzzzz    this gives me the creeps.

Melissa Lynnette wrote:

But Ransom, I don't care if people are nicer, more patient or more willing to trust me.  Seriously.  Because I'm a bitch, so it's not gonna help them anyway.  I've heard of those studies, but ignored them because the only thing I want to hear about is the studies talking about the guy handing me 10 grand cuz I got his dick hard.  Is that so wrong?  Seriously, is it?

It always amazes me when some young people actually take pride in being a b***h (and announce it to the world), that shows a level of immaturity that no amount of attractiveness can overcome.  There may come a time in your life when patience, kindness and trust will be more important than getting your own way... but maybe not. If you think it is hard now wait a few more years while your attitude and anger consume you.

inese wrote:
Why talk to a creepy guy? Just leave. You know I used to think I have to stand there and listen to be polite. Now I just turn around and leave just like that. Who cares what he thinks.I bet you next time when you go there he would not say hi or even look at you. Your problem solved.

I was thinking the same thing.  Why are you standing there subjecting yourself to a situation that you can leave from.  It wasn't like this guy was doing you any favors talking fast and staring at you like he just got out of prison. Why did you even stay around to listen if you knew that you wern't interested in the first place?

RStephenT wrote:

It always amazes me when some young people actually take pride in being a b***h (and announce it to the world), that shows a level of immaturity that no amount of attractiveness can overcome.  There may come a time in your life when patience, kindness and trust will be more important than getting your own way... but maybe not. If you think it is hard now wait a few more years while your attitude and anger consume you.

Honey, my mother and my grandmother are still proud to be bitches, so at least I come by it honestly.  Sorry if that doesn't rub you the right way.

wishingtreephotography wrote:
...you say you want a revolution...

Well, you know, I wanna change the world.

Melissa Lynnette wrote:

Honey, my mother and my grandmother are still proud to be bitches, so at least I come by it honestly.  Sorry if that doesn't rub you the right way.

Melissa Lynnette wrote:
My job sucks, my life sucks and being refused sympathy because I don't make people wince when they look at me just isn't all it's cracked up to be.

So I take it your anger and attitude are working for you?

donald vance wrote:
rotffl!!!!
you ain't batmaN! i met batmaN. we split a 40 in times square. he told me to watch out for hucksters coppin' his schtick, but foolio me din' condon' 'im much!!!

The Times Square Batman is a fraud! Batman would never hang out in Times Square. Batman is more of a Union Square person.

RStephenT wrote:

Melissa Lynnette wrote:
Honey, my mother and my grandmother are still proud to be bitches, so at least I come by it honestly.  Sorry if that doesn't rub you the right way.

So I take it your anger and attitude are working for you?

What's not working for me has nothing to do with the attitude you think I have.  My life sucks because I'm broke.  I'm broke because I'm 23, and like many 23 year olds who aren't Paris Hilton and don't have college degrees, I work for a pittance.  Being sweet and nice isn't going to make my boss give me a raise.  Being nice and sweet isn't going to convince the state of California to not charge me out of state tuition so I can finish school.  I know nice and sweet people who are in the same boat as me. 
So you can think you're the cleverest thing in the world and I can think whatever I want, but until I'm making more money or I get over my aversion to gold digging, I'm going to think my life sucks.  Now, on the other hand, my mother, who is a ball buster, has a lovely life.  But then again she's 50.  She had to go through her share of crappy life experiences also.

Melissa Lynnette wrote:

What's not working for me has nothing to do with the attitude you think I have.  My life sucks because I'm broke.  I'm broke because I'm 23, and like many 23 year olds who aren't Paris Hilton and don't have college degrees, I work for a pittance.  Being sweet and nice isn't going to make my boss give me a raise.  Being nice and sweet isn't going to convince the state of California to not charge me out of state tuition so I can finish school.  I know nice and sweet people who are in the same boat as me. 
So you can think you're the cleverest thing in the world and I can think whatever I want, but until I'm making more money or I get over my aversion to gold digging, I'm going to think my life sucks.  Now, on the other hand, my mother, who is a ball buster, has a lovely life.  But then again she's 50.  She had to go through her share of crappy life experiences also.

Yeah, being nice never works...

Melissa Lynnette wrote:
What's not working for me has nothing to do with the attitude you think I have.  My life sucks because I'm broke.  I'm broke because I'm 23, and like many 23 year olds who aren't Paris Hilton and don't have college degrees, I work for a pittance.  Being sweet and nice isn't going to make my boss give me a raise.  Being nice and sweet isn't going to convince the state of California to not charge me out of state tuition so I can finish school.  I know nice and sweet people who are in the same boat as me. 
So you can think you're the cleverest thing in the world and I can think whatever I want, but until I'm making more money or I get over my aversion to gold digging, I'm going to think my life sucks.  Now, on the other hand, my mother, who is a ball buster, has a lovely life.  But then again she's 50.  She had to go through her share of crappy life experiences also.

I'm not going to say what I'm thinking because I don't think you'd listen.

Ched wrote:

I'm not going to say what I'm thinking because I don't think you'd listen.

No, go ahead.  If you think your advice can make my life better, I wanna hear it.  And that wasn't me being a smart ass, I promise.

Ched wrote:
Ok. When I read what you wrote, I thought in my head "I wouldn't hire her with that attitude." Even if you have the skills for whatever needs to be done, I wouldn't want someone on my team who has that mindset. I don't think I'm the only person here who feels the same way.

You probably aren't.  And I understand your point.  But maybe to me, there's a separation between my life and modeling.  And when I'm on a shoot, I'm not the sweetest thing in the world, but I don't bitch about how crappy my life is either.  To me, there is much more to my life than modeling.  Yes, I'm on here all day, avoiding my job, but when I'm out or whatever, I'm not thinking of myself as a model, I'm thinking of myself as Melissa.  Because that's who I am.  Do you really think that every model you work with thinks life is sunshine and roses on your set?

Ched wrote:
You're not poor. I've been to India. I've been to Africa. You're not poor. You're not desperate. You may not like the size of your TV, but you're doing ok.

How do you know?    Oh Ched, why am I arguing with you?  You say I'm not gonna hear you, but you're not hearing me.  Chalking anything I say up to "oh well she's young what does she know" is just as bad, even if I'm more blunt and abrasive.

Kevin Connery wrote:

Then why did she get into a conversation with him?

I dunno'... You'll have to ask her. If I were in the situation, I probably would've walked away.

Melissa Lynnette wrote:
How do you know?    Oh Ched, why am I arguing with you?  You say I'm not gonna hear you, but you're not hearing me.  Chalking anything I say up to "oh well she's young what does she know" is just as bad, even if I'm more blunt and abrasive.

How does he know?  Because truly, TRULY poor people don't have the time or resources to engage in such a trivial thing such as modeling.  Even with all the TFP's in the world, it's JUST too time and resource consuming to model for TRULY poor people.  They worry about other things like saaaaay EATING.