Fuzzybear Photography wrote:
Did you ever stop to consider how many people you would offend with this post? I looked at you portfolio many times before and admired you a lot but tonight you show your true colors.






Thank you.

SKPhoto wrote:

Alas, ...to be in the either "a creepy old guy" or a "you remind me of my dad" time of life.

There is no justice in the world.

Think about the average professional life expectancy of a model. 

I just think Annabelle needs to put "won't work with photographers over thirty nine" on her profile.  Despite her protestations, it is obvious that age was a factor in the "creepy" description, and is therefore repulsive to her.

ANNABELLA wrote:
Ok, so I have a bash for all the "Creepy Photgraphers" (da da dum) out there.

So I'm out shopping today at one of my favorite stores (well not really, but when you don't live in the suburbs anymore and you now live downtown your choice of shopping malls are limited.) And there's this 40-something year old guy who works there whose always saying 'hi', how are you and what-not. FYI: to all the men out there: a girl knows when you are just trying to be nice or if you are looking for something more than just wanting to know how she is doing today. But I've ignored it-till today. Today, I just wanted to buy a new hamper for my house. Not chit-chat wit the creepy ol' guy in the sportswear section.

Well, too make a long story short-we get into a conversation about modeling (and usually I NEVER, ever tell people I model because 9 times out of 10 they will claim they either are or know someone who is somebody that is some big famous person in the buisness that I should know. )Well this guy claimed to be such. And one thing I've learned from a good friend of mine whose been in this buisness for years is that: "Any photgrapher who claims to be or know all or most of the big names in the buisness is either A. Lying B. Trying to get in your pants or C. A douchebag for wanting to brag and ya probably dont' wanna work wit him anyway

Well I think this guy fell under category A cause he kept trying to convince me that I should be trying to get into Smooth and King magazine cause of my "fine body") Gross! I don't wanna hear that from someone old enough to be my damn daddy!!

He even insisted that I better "recognize" the shift in the modeling industry.  (Claiming that more and more girls are breaking into the hig fashion buisness by being more risque and sexual-a la booty shots) and that instead of geering towards being signed with a commercial agency I should look towards the more urban side of modeling because of my "skin tone" (wow-talk about sterotyping)  and the commercial agencies will be banging down doors later to sign me once I break into music videos and so on!!

Oh, and he insisted that he followed America's next top model like it was the bible cause it was soo much like the real modeling world. I tried to explain to him that the show is 90% reality show and he shot back that I was only 22 and knew nothing about a 20 year veteran as himself. (But he's a cashier with a bendable buisness card with Photography spelled wrong on it) I see.

ANNABELLA wrote:
OK, no more comments on my part about age of photographers. I clarified my comment since I realized many were taking offense.

That is all from me for now.

You can't just stop the discussion just like that: you've proven yourself to be just a silly little girls already.

Luminos wrote:
Yep, 40 year old photographers can be pretty darn creepy.  Men over 40 really shouldn't be permitted to have a camera.  Only twenty and thirty somethings, with lots of money, a fast car, look like Heath Ledger, and work for Vogue.

Glad I'm over 50 so that I can't take offense.

How many photographers out there are bookmarking this thread as a reference back to the next time they go looking for a model with the right attitude towards the business?

AMEN BROTHER!

Fuzzybear Photography wrote:
Did you ever stop to consider how many people you would offend with this post? I looked at you portfolio many times before and admired you a lot but tonight you show your true colors.

You had a conversation with a harmless 40 something year old dreamer, and isn't that what most of are in this forum, dreamers? Are we all going to be world famous photographers and supermodels? I think not.

I suppose you limit all you shoots to photographers under 40? What would you do if you reach 40? :  commit suicide?

Fuzzybear Photography wrote:
Did you ever stop to consider how many people you would offend with this post? I looked at you portfolio many times before and admired you a lot but tonight you show your true colors.
You had a conversation with a harmless 40 something year old dreamer, and isn't that what most of are in this forum, dreamers? Are we all going to be world famous photographers and supermodels? I think not.
I suppose you limit all you shoots to photographers under 40? What would you do if you reach 40? :  commit suicide?

Again, I clarified the comments I made concerning age since it seemed the caused such a stir. If you did not take the time to read the entire thread before making a statement then so be it.
Secondly, my mother always taught me to trust my God-given women's instinct. As women, we are not dumb. We know when a guy is giving a simple compliment or when he is wanting more. It does not take brain surgery. This is the same instinct that we use when we feel someone is following on us in a dark alley or when the guy we have been seeing for a few weeks suddenly invites us to his house and something just aint right about going and the weeks later we find out he's  registered sex offender (happend to a good friend of mine's) So my instinct takes power over everything else. Screw "the buisness" and anything else.
And for your information...Age is never a factor on who I work with.

Actually the photographer who shot my avater



(who stopped me in a Starbucks one morning while brunching with friends-minus the creepy factor) was about 50 and one of the best damn photographers I have ever shot with and I am grateful that he gave me the chance to be part of his magic.

Ched wrote:

Ok, but I'm Batman.

No problem but now I'll have to hire someone responsible for casting and TradeMark deals.

Fuzzybear Photography wrote:
You can't just stop the discussion just like that: you've proven yourself to be just a silly little girls already.

In the words of my 33 year old boyfriend who just expressed his laughter over "my generation being so damn sensitive about being old"



YAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!

Melissa Lynnette wrote:
And if you don't get why attractive people hate being told their attractive, think about this.  Say your name is Darth (for whatever reason).  What if everytime you told someone your name, they made a dumb Star Wars joke?  Or what if you were from Kansas (this is a true story) and everytime you told someone that they made some stupid reference to the Wizard of Oz or, even worse, they automatically assumed you meant Kansas City, MO as if there isn't an entire state that goes by the name of Kansas.  I promise you would want to murder the 125,653,588th person who made the same comment.  No really, I promise.  In fact, if you were impatient like me, it would be around the 12th person that you'd start getting hostile.

Damn, that's a good point!

Melissa Lynnette wrote:
Annabella, sweetheart, I'm with you on this one.
Old guys hitting on young girls is creepy.  Sorry.  Maybe if you aren't a young girl who gets hit on daily by skeevy old men you don't see my point.  Whatever.

Not that I want guys my age hitting on me all the time either.  Nor do I have some narcissistic need to hear how pretty or sexy or whatever I am from every person who thinks so.  I certainly don't need to hear it from the creepy old man that hangs out on the corner by the bus stop every frickin time I walk past him.
I haven't encountered anyone claiming to be a photographer to further their campaign, but I'm sure that would be just as obnoxious as all the other come ons a girl has to endure.

And if you don't get why attractive people hate being told their attractive, think about this.  Say your name is Darth (for whatever reason).  What if everytime you told someone your name, they made a dumb Star Wars joke?  Or what if you were from Kansas (this is a true story) and everytime you told someone that they made some stupid reference to the Wizard of Oz or, even worse, they automatically assumed you meant Kansas City, MO as if there isn't an entire state that goes by the name of Kansas.  I promise you would want to murder the 125,653,588th person who made the same comment.  No really, I promise.  In fact, if you were impatient like me, it would be around the 12th person that you'd start getting hostile.

Being named Darth or being from Kansas isn't a blessing, it doesn't make your life easier by default, it doesn't make you more approachable and acceptable in society and thus more prone to success (these are all scientific studies that were found to be TRUE about being considered attractive). 

Sure you may get hit on all the time and may hear you're sexy or fine or pretty or whatever but if that's the WORST thing you put up with all day then you live a thoroughly priveledged life.

ANNABELLA wrote:

Damn, that's a good point!

Not really.  My name is James Kirk.  I hear the jokes daily.

Most often asked:  "What's the middle initial."

Since I work with a very, very, very nerdy crowd, I don't scream at them, or otherwise belittle the comments.  I make the situation work for me.  It makes sure they remember me.

And not as the person who flew off the handle, but as the one that had a good comeback.  (I reserve flying off the handle for other topics.  Usually bad decision making.)

I particularly find that, after taking it good-naturedly - it will work to my advantage.  I've lost track of how many free upgrades for rental cars I've gotten from Avis because some Trekie behind the counter got an attack of the guilts for comments made.

So grow up.  If you intend to be in the modeling business, better learn to handle the attention with grace - because you can't pick and choose who looks.

Luminos wrote:
Not really.  My name is James Kirk.  I hear the jokes daily.

Most often asked:  "What's the middle initial."

Since I work with a very, very, very nerdy crowd, I don't scream at them, or otherwise belittle the comments.  I make the situation work for me.  It makes sure they remember me.

And not as the person who flew off the handle, but as the one that had a good comeback.  (I reserve flying off the handle for other topics.  Usually bad decision making.)

I particularly find that, after taking it good-naturedly - it will work to my advantage.  I've lost track of how many free upgrades for rental cars I've gotten from Avis because some Trekie behind the counter got an attack of the guilts for comments made.

So grow up.  If you intend to be in the modeling business, better learn to handle the attention with grace - because you can't pick and choose who looks.

Gotta love logic in action.

My name is Ransom.  it REALLY IS Ransom.  Do understand the countless corny jokes i receive from that name?

but I don't get pissy about it i just make it work for me.

Ransom J wrote:

Being named Darth or being from Kansas isn't a blessing, it doesn't make your life easier by default, it doesn't make you more approachable and acceptable in society and thus more prone to success (these are all scientific studies that were found to be TRUE about being considered attractive). 

Sure you may get hit on all the time and may hear you're sexy or fine or pretty or whatever but if that's the WORST thing you put up with all day then you live a thoroughly priveledged life.

Being pretty didn't pay for me to go to college, I have student loans.  Being pretty has not made my life easier in any way, sorry.  Maybe I'm in the wrong life.
And getting hit on isn't the worst thing I put up with all day, but it sure doesn't make me less willing to hit the vodka when I finally get home.

ANNABELLA wrote:
Ok, so I have a bash for all the "Creepy Photgraphers" (da da dum) out there.

So I'm out shopping today at one of my favorite stores (well not really, but when you don't live in the suburbs anymore and you now live downtown your choice of shopping malls are limited.) And there's this 40-something year old guy who works there whose always saying 'hi', how are you and what-not. FYI: to all the men out there: a girl knows when you are just trying to be nice or if you are looking for something more than just wanting to know how she is doing today. But I've ignored it-till today. Today, I just wanted to buy a new hamper for my house. Not chit-chat wit the creepy ol' guy in the sportswear section.

Well, too make a long story short-we get into a conversation about modeling (and usually I NEVER, ever tell people I model because 9 times out of 10 they will claim they either are or know someone who is somebody that is some big famous person in the buisness that I should know. )Well this guy claimed to be such. And one thing I've learned from a good friend of mine whose been in this buisness for years is that: "Any photgrapher who claims to be or know all or most of the big names in the buisness is either A. Lying B. Trying to get in your pants or C. A douchebag for wanting to brag and ya probably dont' wanna work wit him anyway

Well I think this guy fell under category A cause he kept trying to convince me that I should be trying to get into Smooth and King magazine cause of my "fine body") Gross! I don't wanna hear that from someone old enough to be my damn daddy!!

He even insisted that I better "recognize" the shift in the modeling industry.  (Claiming that more and more girls are breaking into the hig fashion buisness by being more risque and sexual-a la booty shots) and that instead of geering towards being signed with a commercial agency I should look towards the more urban side of modeling because of my "skin tone" (wow-talk about sterotyping)  and the commercial agencies will be banging down doors later to sign me once I break into music videos and so on!!

Oh, and he insisted that he followed America's next top model like it was the bible cause it was soo much like the real modeling world. I tried to explain to him that the show is 90% reality show and he shot back that I was only 22 and knew nothing about a 20 year veteran as himself. (But he's a cashier with a bendable buisness card with Photography spelled wrong on it) I see.

Luminos wrote:
So grow up.  If you intend to be in the modeling business, better learn to handle the attention with grace - because you can't pick and choose who looks.

Ok, this has gone beyond "the buisness" and into what a woman should accept and not accept from a man. A man can look. Obviously, you can't stop him from that. But if a situation occurs where a man us trying to advance himself on me  or come at me wrong occurs well that's when Ms. Ghetto U.S ville comes out. It aint gonna happen. The claws will come out. F*** pretty face, nice body or whatever else the excuses seem to be.

Luminos wrote:

Not really.  My name is James Kirk.  I hear the jokes daily.

Most often asked:  "What's the middle initial."

Since I work with a very, very, very nerdy crowd, I don't scream at them, or otherwise belittle the comments.  I make the situation work for me.  It makes sure they remember me.

And not as the person who flew off the handle, but as the one that had a good comeback.  (I reserve flying off the handle for other topics.  Usually bad decision making.)

I particularly find that, after taking it good-naturedly - it will work to my advantage.  I've lost track of how many free upgrades for rental cars I've gotten from Avis because some Trekie behind the counter got an attack of the guilts for comments made.

So grow up.  If you intend to be in the modeling business, better learn to handle the attention with grace - because you can't pick and choose who looks.

Maybe I'm just too young, but I don't get it.  Who is James Kirk?

And who said anything about flying off the handle?  Just because I vent on the internet, doesn't mean I roar at people in real life.

ANNABELLA wrote:

Actually, I did steer myself from the convo once it got a bit heated. I mean, who wants to stand around and watch a 40-something year old undress you with their eyes?

It sounds like you might be practicing a little age discrimination here.  Most of the top photographers in the world are in their 40's and same with agency scouts and executives.  I am guessing that if this man was in fact one of those you would be thrilled to have him noticing you and "undressing you with is eyes".  I am just assuming though

Curious....did you ask the man any questions about his experince in the industry or did you just brush him off based on your first impressions ? 


Side note - I read a story about a top executive from Roxy who once asked a girl at the beach if she was interested in modeling.  She apparently told the man that she knows a fake when she sees one and said "no".  Confucious once said "the wisest man asks the most questions"

Melissa Lynnette wrote:
Maybe I'm just too young, but I don't get it.  Who is James Kirk?

I was wondering the same thing.

Melissa Lynnette wrote:

Being pretty didn't pay for me to go to college, I have student loans.  Being pretty has not made my life easier in any way, sorry.  Maybe I'm in the wrong life.
And getting hit on isn't the worst thing I put up with all day, but it sure doesn't make me less willing to hit the vodka when I finally get home.

If you REALLY think that being pretty hasn't afforded you some advantages in life then you MUST have been pretty all your life

Kinetic Photography wrote:

It sounds like you might be practicing a little age discrimination here.  Most of the top photographers in the world are in their 40's and same with agency scouts and executives.  I am guessing that if this man was in fact one of those you would be thrilled to have him noticing you and "undressing you with is eyes".  I am just assuming though

Sorry, I don't want any photographer I work with undressing me with his eyes, no matter his age.  Is that appropriate or professional?  Is the model going to feel comfortable working with you if she can tell you're making it sexual?  I doubt it.

Kinetic Photography wrote:
It sounds like you might be practicing a little age discrimination here.  Most of the top photographers in the world are in their 40's and same with agency scouts and executives.  I am guessing that if this man was in fact one of those you would be thrilled to have him noticing you and "undressing you with is eyes".  I am just assuming though

Again. the age discrimination topic is soooo yesterday.I already clarified my point on that one. Perhaps my 33 year old boyfriend should put in his 2 cents worth on how much I "age discriminate."

And for your information-as a woman, whose mother who was part of the bra burning decade of times of old: I don't want ANY MAN "undressing me with his eyes" and a comment like that is just digusting.

ANNABELLA wrote:

Actually, I did steer myself from the convo once it got a bit heated. I mean, who wants to stand around and watch a 40-something year old undress you with their eyes?

Ransom J wrote:

If you REALLY think that being pretty hasn't afforded you some advantages in life then you MUST have been pretty all your life

I might have been, but being the only black girl until I was in the 7th grade meant whatever prettiness was there wasn't appreciated/noticed until I was in high school.  So until being pretty can provide actual monetary perks, any other advantages you claim comes with it mean bubkus to me.    Now, if my account manager at Visa and SallieMae go "oh Melissa, you're so pretty so we're ignoring your debt" or the guy at the Cadillac dealership says "here you go sexy girl, here's an Escalade truck so you don't have to ride the bus anymore" you're not gonna see me being that overjoyed about being pretty.  My life sucks just as much as that ugly chick's down the street.  Actually more, since she has a car.

Ransom J wrote:
If you REALLY think that being pretty hasn't afforded you some advantages in life then you MUST have been pretty all your life

What does being pretty do for a girl? Please help me understand so maybe I can be just a little bit more vain as I go about my daily activites cause I sure don't think about such a thing. One of my good friends is severely cross-eyed but I don't look at her like: 'man, her life sucks cause according to everyone else's standards she is not so attractive. In fact, she's my favorite party buddy and the funnest person to be around.

Sheesh! And they say models are vain.   

RBDesign wrote:
This thread is funny.

Yes, yes it is ... 

ANNABELLA wrote:

No, I'M A HUMAN BEING AND AM TIRED OF YOU STARING AT MY ASS EVERYTIME I WALK THROUGH THE JUNIORS SECTION AND AFTER YOU FIND OUT I HAVE A BOYFRIEND YOU CONICIDENTALLY INSIST THAT YOU JUST ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY WOULD LOOOVE TO SHOOT ME." (IN BETWEEN QUICK GLANCES DOWN MY CHEST)

Yes, yes you are a human being, and so am I.  Modeling is an activity, NOT a thing that we call people.  There are NO MODELS and NO PHOTOGRAPHERS.  As human beings, we do pick up cameras every so often and take pictures of other people who do an activity that we call modeling. Those are the facts as I know them!

Rich Davis wrote:
What is the point of tbis rambling message?

Rich, I'm not sure .. not sure if she knows either?  But it did offend a few old creepy photographers here, right?  LOL 

Patrick Walberg wrote:
Should I be offended?  Seriously ... I'm 40 something, but told that I look much younger.  Most think I'm 30 something .. but anyway ... what does age have to do with it?  Maybe the guy is much older than 40 something or maybe he is younger but had a hard life? 

My point is that age doesn't matter at all.  If it were a 20 something, then you would be flattered at the attention?  Yes, of course you would, but you are stereotyping!  A 20 something can be a wife beating thug who has committed crimes or he can be a really nice guy who is honest and single.  The same goes for any of us males in the population.

Women can also be stereotyped from their age too. Maybe a 20 something is a better model than a 16 to 19 year old?  Maybe a 30 something is far better for the project?  It all depends on what the pictures are for.  Heck, male models seem to find more work as they gather character lines that come with age, but women are always supposed to be as young looking as possible ... ????   Truth is that I like experienced models for what they can bring to the shoot.  Some of my favorite models are already a few years older than you!  So please don't discriminate against people based on their perceived age and I will try not to either. 

FYI: Patrick- Your everyday, typical sorority house college 20 something party girl will think that ANY MAN who is trying to holler at her who is old enough to be her daddy is creepy. Can't believe that is  a newsflash for some of you but it is.

Now, again, my boyfriend is 33 and he edged over into the creep factor but I fell hard so we don't look at all older guys like that. Many girls like older guys. But that was my point in making that comment. If you don't think a 20 or 30 year older guy trying to talk to your 20 something year old daughter is gonna piss you off then I wonder.

Cause my daddy, whose as dark as the night sky would be red as a tomato:

DigitalCMH wrote:

Hey, what about me, I'm a photographer...no really I am!  Stop laughing at me..

Photographers should be able to laugh at themselves!  LOL

Melissa Lynnette wrote:

I might have been, but being the only black girl until I was in the 7th grade meant whatever prettiness was there wasn't appreciated/noticed until I was in high school.  So until being pretty can provide actual monetary perks, any other advantages you claim comes with it mean bubkus to me.    Now, if my account manager at Visa and SallieMae go "oh Melissa, you're so pretty so we're ignoring your debt" or the guy at the Cadillac dealership says "here you go sexy girl, here's an Escalade truck so you don't have to ride the bus anymore" you're not gonna see me being that overjoyed about being pretty.  My life sucks just as much as that ugly chick's down the street.  Actually more, since she has a car.

The majority of advantages won't be as obvious as someone walking up and dropping 10,000 bucks in your lap because you make his dick hard.  Society doesn't work that way.  The advatages of being attractive are things that you honestly won't even see most times but it doesn't mean it's there.

In those studies they showed how if there are two applicants with identical resumes and credits, the one that is considered "more attractive" will almost always get the job over the "less attractive" one.

They showed in this study that people are generally nicer, more patient and even more willing to TRUST  people that they found attractive without merit or cause.  This was even true in children.  Even as young as one month old, babies had a recorded better temperment with "attractive people"  pictures  placed in their face rather than unattractive ones.

Mindsets like that allow life to be a lot easier than it COULD be.  So you keep thinking that being pretty hasn't gotten you shit in your life time.

ANNABELLA wrote:

What does being pretty do for a girl? Please help me understand so maybe I can be just a little bit more vain as I go about my daily activites cause I sure don't think about such a thing. One of my good friends is severely cross-eyed but I don't look at her like: 'man, her life sucks cause according to everyone else's standards she is not so attractive. In fact, she's my favorite party buddy and the funnest person to be around.

Sheesh! And they say models are vain.   

Ya'll's youth really shows.

Rossi Photography wrote:
Oh, and it's not "Clyde Davis", it's "Clive Davis". The man rocks! Lol...

I wanted to make that correction but meh!