PapaVic Photography wrote:

Melissa Lynnette wrote:
The 5'2" hobbyist who goes to a hotel with a guy who's a bank manager by day isn't on her way to a professional assigment.  She is on her way to meet a guy from the internet.

PERFECT!

Any model that insists on bringing an ascort should be prepared to supply adequate references for the escort so the photographer can check them out sufficiently to feel comfortable with allowing the escort along on the shoot!

BRILLIANT!

Hat's off to you, fellow Old Guy!

Hey!  Like I said, I can do that.  Can I bring my boyfriend with me now?

oldguysrule wrote:
you pulled 5% outta yer bum. however, lets say its 5% for the sake of argument. the response should be to find as effective a prophylactic as possible. escorts are not. that's a fact. they are far more often a problem for all envolved than protection. further... my remedy for the risk adverse -- after all reasonable research has been done (the most effective prophylactic) -- pass on the job or find a career with no safety threats. (hmmm no such thiing?... what to do?)

edit... more. that 5% number is SO inflamatory as to constitute an attack against the profession. it is, if EVERY reported instance is included more like 1/1000th of 1% (.001). roughtly the same risk as being attacked by a shark while surfing.

Totally agree on this one actually...let's assume for the sake of this that we've heard about 5 events that occurred during shoots.  how many shoots occur per day..per year via MM?  What's the statistical average?  1 in 100,000?  1 in 1,000,000?  I would suspect that the statistical average is far less than the person being hit by a car crossing the road to get into the escort's car versus actually have the event happen, and far more likely to have happen while going out to a club on a friday or saturday night.

That is NOT to say what happens is right and yes, one time is one time too many.  I have a 14 year old daughter - so no, it's not as if I don't think about this either.

However, even a male friend (speaking in general terms here) that so graciously escorts the model to the photoshoot probably has a far greater statistical odds of attacking the model might later on in the evening, than the photographer during the photoshoot (heck, the escort got to sit there and WATCH)  - whereas the photographer if he cares about his craft, is far too wrapped up in dealing with his gear, lighting, capturing that perfect shot to really even feel anything remotely as a turn on at the time.

To be blunt..guys are guys - why do models think that photographers are any different, or worse than others?  That's what surprises me about this all.

::returning to regular chipper programming...::

RRCPhoto wrote:
To be blunt..guys are guys - why do models think that photographers are any different, or worse than others?  That's what surprises me about this all.

::returning to regular chipper programming...::

BUT IT's NOT JUST GUYS!

There are female models, who insist upon bringing an escort "for comfort and safety" when shooting with female photographers.

Honestly it's NOT just a M v F thing.   There is that.  There is the assumption that all models are F and all photographers M.

But it goes beyond that.  It's that deep.

So much so that I've even heard the line "well if you won't let me bring my escort THEN you must be up to something."

KM von Seidl wrote:

BUT IT's NOT JUST GUYS!

There are female models, who insist upon bringing an escort "for comfort and safety" when shooting with female photographers.

Honestly it's NOT just a M v F thing.   There is that.  There is the assumption that all models are F and all photographers M.

But it goes beyond that.  It's that deep.

So much so that I've even heard the line "well if you won't let me bring my escort THEN you must be up to something."

We heard that from alton's "gal" .. if you don't allow an escort then you're only after one thing.  I'd be more concerned in your situation, then in mine, and I'm not a big guy and probably some of the models could take me Which is why my friend, actually warned me about all of this in the first place...  But I'm surprised they have a problem with a female however.  That is odd.  Is it the "I'm hot" symptom?

::back to chipper programming...need a new chipper image...::

KM von Seidl wrote:
The one thing that bugs the shit out of me, is when a model (or whiteknight or sluggo) implies or says, that because I don't permit escorts (which I don't for a myriad of reasons) that therefore I am to be suspect to be...I'm not sure what, a rapist, a murderer, I've yet to get one actually follow up and articulate what they think I am.

Thanks. I have one overwhelming reason why no escorts are allowed in my studio. It has never been brought up on the many escort threads on MM, but the reason is important to me. I will not bring it up for obvious reasons.

There are strong laws against rape and murder with associated sanctions, but they do not pertain to me as a photographer because I am neither a rapist nor a murderer. I am a photographer and I attempt to be the best that I can be at my chosen craft. Sorry about any problems that are brought up here but some of the problems I do not believe actually happen. The pretend problems are brought up by fear mongers that want aspiring models to sign up with a manager, usually themselves.

Models: check up on the person who is doing the shoot. I am sure there are imposters posing as photographers, but a phony should be pretty easy to identify. Most of us who do this as a craft are very easy to check up on and we do not bite.

Melissa Lynnette wrote:

Hey!  Like I said, I can do that.  Can I bring my boyfriend with me now?

NO..Hell no..  :-)

Star wrote:
took the numbers from someone elses post, as to your number where in your buttucks did you pull that from?

back up your numbers before putting in new ones. I think that 5 bad experiences out of 100 is pretty low a number. If you don't like escorts don't argue about it, just don't employ models who bring them.

Look at that the whole thing is fixed.

But instead people argue and argue and argue over it.


there were 29 shark attacks on surfers in 2005. By your accounting that means there are only 2500 times that people went surfing in the entire world last year. Now that is what I call sloppy mathmatics.

http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/fish/sharks/st … ummary.htm

see my point?
the 5% from a thread... its bogus... there are several billion or so photoshoots globally a year (including hobbyist) -- i don't remember exactly -- according to cannon (granted, a questionable source). your 5% would equate to 50,000,000 assaults by photographers per year. 1-1000th of 1% would yield 10,000. My number is closer than yours.

its all fearmongering or justification. stats mean nothing here. personal responsibility does.

why do you even SHOOT with these clowns? cause its for free? well DUH. i repeat... are you THAT desperate to have your picture taken that you put yourself in a dangerous situation? and then expect an escort to protect you?

*throws his hands up

whether i use these fear-inspired models isn't the point. demonizing and fearmongering are.

btw. 29*100000 = 290,000 instances of surfing not 2500.

PapaVic Photography wrote:
PERFECT!

Any model that insists on bringing an ascort should be prepared to supply adequate references for the escort so the photographer can check them out sufficiently to feel comfortable with allowing the escort along on the shoot!

BRILLIANT!

Hat's off to you, fellow Old Guy!

Melissa Lynnette wrote:
Hey!  Like I said, I can do that.  Can I bring my boyfriend with me now?

You can bring anyone you ASK me you want to bring; the minute you start INSISTING (especially if we've never had any contact before) will I also INSIST on checking your escort's references myself.

courtesy > entitlement

Vance wrote:

NO..Hell no..  :-)

Not to your shoot Vance, to oldguy's.  Sheesh!    But you can't stop him from waiting out from in the car, ready for my signal.  Although knowing him, the bastard would fall asleep and miss it.  Or get kidnapped by whoever kidnapped him the last time he was supposed to waiting in the car and when I went out there to get a cd he'd left.  Come to think of it, he's a horrible escort.  Never mind.

PapaVic Photography wrote:

PapaVic Photography wrote:
PERFECT!

Any model that insists on bringing an ascort should be prepared to supply adequate references for the escort so the photographer can check them out sufficiently to feel comfortable with allowing the escort along on the shoot!

BRILLIANT!

Hat's off to you, fellow Old Guy!

You can bring anyone you ASK me you want to bring; the minute you start INSISTING (especially if we've never had any contact before)  will I also INSIST on checking reference myself.

Wait.  Models don't ask first if they can bring someone?  I think I just had a breakthrough on this issue.

Melissa Lynnette wrote:

Wait.  Models don't ask first if they can bring someone?  I think I just had a breakthrough on this issue.

no breakthrough: the keywords are "ASK" as opposed to "INSIST"

KM von Seidl wrote:

In my previous life I had a much more rigid view of how the world was supposed to and should work.  I wanted it to work my way.   

The truth is that this world is filled with billions of people, who have an extraordinary range of biological imperatives, real world experiences, cultural values, etc, which boils down to the fact that what you think SHOULD happen won't necessarily happen.

If you were the victim of having something nonconsentually and violently shoved up your rear and you felt powerless, shamed, afraid, then you might not act the same way a person who never experienced your experience or values did.  I think that's an understatement which unfortunately needs to be said.

When I was in law school I worked for several years for a sexual assault center.  It was a constant struggle to balance my views, societies view, legal realities with the psychological and emotional realities of what the victim (particularly if they were a child) was going through.

Again, I wish that people who do bad things to others pay for their ways.   But it's not my place to force someone who has already been legitimately (as opposed to falsely) injured to do something which they aren't willing to do.

First, let me just say that I see your point and I concur.  We do not live in the perfect world.

Secon...erm.. nevermind.  My brain is tired.  People traumatized or not are selfish, and being a person.. I'm no different.  So... I give up.  We'll all just have to deal with what it costs us to be this way when the bill comes.  Hopefully it will be later rather than sooner.

Good luck people.

Rabbit86 wrote:
LMAO i would never bring him near you beacose i wouldnt work with you, simple .
Thank god there a lot of very good photographers who have same rules and policies as me and have no problem with it.
As for my posts ...sorry if it  not clear english it not my oiginal lang.

Actually, I don't have a problem with escorts.  I just have a problem with your escort.  But I suppose somehow I'll live without working with you and Frankenstein Jr.

Good luck to you...and the next photographer that has to deal with your pet dinosaur.

Melissa Lynnette wrote:

Not to your shoot Vance, to oldguy's.  Sheesh!    But you can't stop him from waiting out from in the car, ready for my signal.  Although knowing him, the bastard would fall asleep and miss it.  Or get kidnapped by whoever kidnapped him the last time he was supposed to waiting in the car and when I went out there to get a cd he'd left.  Come to think of it, he's a horrible escort.  Never mind.

driver, waiting outside, friend who knows where you are, etc. all are whatever... your call... i don't know about it.

PapaVic Photography wrote:

Melissa Lynnette wrote:
The 5'2" hobbyist who goes to a hotel with a guy who's a bank manager by day isn't on her way to a professional assigment.  She is on her way to meet a guy from the internet.

PERFECT!

Any model that insists on bringing an ascort should be prepared to supply adequate references for the escort so the photographer can check them out sufficiently to feel comfortable with allowing the escort along on the shoot!

BRILLIANT!

Hat's off to you, fellow Old Guy!

WTF.. I said that a couple of pages ago...Where's my sycophant? hehe.. jus kidding. 

RRCPhoto wrote:
Oh dear..just do like Yoda does .. and all will be well in the world....Heck, Yoda can't be wrong can he?

Why is Vanilla Ice in the chipper?

Avicdar wrote:

Why is Vanilla Ice in the chipper?

He got paid to be an escort.....need we say more?

CareLyn Anita wrote:
You mean Vanilla shaved Ice?

shaved???? when???? the boy used to have such a pretty patch.

CareLyn Anita wrote:
LOL , Well it looks like that patch has become part of the vanilla shaved ice experiment ...
I mean you take vanilla ice paid to be an escort put him in the chipper you get vanilla shaved ice for desert , and a little bling to boot! ...  LOL

Add vodka....lots of vodka....

RRCPhoto wrote:

Add vodka....lots of vodka....

Please run the chipper prior to tons of vodka ... you need your finger to push that little button on that black thing you are holding.

CareLyn Anita wrote:
Buttons knobs and dials are better operated prior to vodka...same with chippers lol ...
Don't spill any on that box attached to that light there , thats not a end table...or a foot rest.

Is it customary to get escorts drunk prior to them being fed to the chipper ?

Or is that alcohol abuse?

See other thread for response.:-)

Vance wrote:

See other thread for response.:-)

ditto

Howard Garcia wrote:

To me it suggests one of several things..but first...has anyone read the OP's bio page on OMP?

"...masturbation playing with toys, male hands over my body or with toy that we can talk about"

That suggests to me that there's more here than just modeling and Dimitry is her pimp/bodyguard or a sluggo.

Sorry but after reading that, that's the impression I get.

I think this is an important point. I do not believe in blaiming the victim but the narrative of both her MM and OMP ports indicate a tolerance for a more adult type shoot than most models. Most of her images are nude. Her  English language skills by her admission are very limited almost to the point of needing a translator at the shoots. I would suggest that she partner with a English speaking friend to rewrite her narratives to make them less open to  improper interpertation.
Frankly I think until she develops a better command of English she does need to have escort/ translator which reduces the need for manual poseing.

SLE Photography wrote:
I might point out in this case it's ENTIRELY possible the model & the photographer were having an issue due to communication & lan guage barriers, which might've also made it harder for her to check references.
However, I KNOW I don't want some huge thug I can't communicate with (unless my model Shurya's around to translate, since she speaks Russian & I don't) hovering & possibly beating the crap out of me because I can't explain something was a misunderstanding.

Wynd Mulysa wrote:
Oh, right.  I forgot about reading that in her bio a few days ago.  I think it's good for her to bring a friend as translator and I guess that would make him double as an escort.

I could also be that the photographer wasn't trying to be overly familiar but just got frustrated trying to communicate & so was being overly aggresive in touch-posing her.
I'd say the fact that he let her leave without an argument says he wasn't up to no good.

SKPhoto wrote:
Do you stop going to the grocery store?  There have been minutes here and there where I have been alone with only one ether person in an aisle and as we've been told it only takes a few feet and a few seconds to be assaulted. Do you bring an escort to the grocery store?  Why not?

grocery stores were Ted Bundy's fave stalking grounds

jasontheartist wrote:
well how does she know you arent the 1 in a million that wants to keep her in your homemade dungeon and are using this platform as a way to find her?

I resent that.  I have a VERY nice professionaly constructed Dungeon.

James Jackson wrote:
Really??? Where? when? what were the circumstances... I want names and dates and news articles...

Melissa Vultaggio wrote:
Come on do you not have anything better to do other than to down others? Why do you need a place or a time or the circumstances? This happened!!!!

He wasn't downing anyone.  Those were legit questions.  The hysterics who promote excorts exist off fear-mongering so they often bandy tales like this around right out of their own sick minds.  There HAVE been a few cases of someone kidnapping a woman & holding her as a sex slave but I have never ONCE heard of them involving a photography scam.  They've usually kidnapped a woman off the street, out of her bed, or in a bar.  Do you always have escorts in THOSE places??

Melissa Lynnette wrote:
I'm not a professional model.  In fact, not much professional modeling (at least from what I've read on this site) happens with only two people in the room.  From what I've heard, professional photographers have studios and hairstylists and assistants and clients and whatnot in the room to alleviate any fears a model might have had about being alone in a hotel room with a guy she met on the internet.  I'm just saying.  Photographers on this site like to pull out the professional card when it suits them to bend models to their views.

Excellent point.

Here's the view from the outside:  A while ago, I was on a road trip with two models who are also close friends of mine.  One of the models had a shoot, booked through this site, with a local photographer, and he'd asked to shoot in her hotel room.  He shows up, has a cheap DSLR and the cheapest lights I've ever seen, literally something he bought at the hardware store.  I'm there finishing my coffee and waiting for the other model to get ready so I can go do a location shoot, but the other guy starts to freak that we're still in the room, doesn't say anything to me but complains to the model.

What message does this send?  Instead of leaving the area, I did my shoot right outside in the parking lot, well within scream-hearing range.  Honestly, between the cheap gear and the freakout, I thought the guy was a complete loser.  He's lucky the model (who is very expwerienced) didn't cancel the shoot on the spot... she thought about it.

A day or two later I encountered the same guy somewhere else and had a chance to talk to him one on one.  Turned out he's actually a really nice guy, and a much better than average photographer despite the cheap gear.  He just isn't a very self-confident individual, so he freaked in the presence of other people = distractions from his point of view... which gave us an impression which turned out to be, in retrospect, not very accurate.

To tie back in to Melissa's point:  No matter how good he is, that photographer would be unable to function in a truly professional environment.  If he couldn't deal with a photographer having coffee and a second model doing makeup, what chance has he got on a set with a dozen people and total chaos in every direction?

So, sorry guys.  I don't buy the "I can't get good pictures if the escort is there" excuse.  If you can't overcome that distraction, then you probably can't multitask on anything else, either.  Maybe it's my journalism background, where we had to deal with everything from airplane crashes to cops trying to chase us out, usually at the same time.  But if you're that freaked by the presence of one person, the implication is that you've probably never done a really major pro shoot.  Either that or your ego is getting in the way.  You have a right to shoot or not shoot with whoever you want, but so does the model... so don't whine about it.  You're only going to make me question your self-assurance and your motives.

One qualifier:  I don't think a knuckledragger escort is actually much protection, in fact I think a girlfriend with running shoes and a cell phone is probably a better choice.  But I want my models to feel comfortable.  If they can get there by checking refeerences, great.  If they feel a need to bring an escort, that's ok too.  After several hundred shoots, I've never had even a minor problem in any way related to this.