Star wrote:

by that reasoning I am an awful photographer. Please all of you who agree with this statement raise your hand.

I think that these arguments prove that those who don't want escorts are the most VOCAL people. Not the best. Not the worst. Many people just don't care to argue about what they will and will not allow on their sets.

Since if you allow escorts there is no real reason to argue about it, I argue for the sake of the arguement, you don't see them talking that much.

Star

Interesting reasoning...

I applaud your logic.

I retract my statement for the moment.

Jay Bowman wrote:
...Let's review some figures.

• Approximately 68% of rape victims knew their assailant.
• Approximately 28% of victims are raped by husbands or boyfriends, 35% by acquaintances, and 5% by other relatives.
• 6 out of 10 sexual assaults occur in the home of the victim or the home of a friend, neighbor or relative. (Greenfeld, 1997)

This makes it clear that between a photographer and an escort, it's the escort who fits the profile of a potential rapist. 

Now, while that's unsettling enough, I'm not going to suggest that we accompany models home to protect them from their boyfriends/husbands/fathers.  If they want to take their chances with that felon-to-be, that's their business.  Instead, let me draw your attention to some other rather disturbing facts taken from that same website:

• 1 out of 5 victims of sexual assault is male
• Most male rape victims are heterosexual
• Most perpetrators of male rape are heterosexual
• 89% of the rapists described the victims as not being provocative, "The victims did not verbally provoke nor were sexually attractive to the attacker".

Well, I'll be a sonovabitch... not only is the escort that a model brings a potential rapist but as a heterosexual male myself (and assuming that this boyfriend/father/husband is heterosexual, too) this means that there's a statistical possibility that he might rape or sexually assault me!  And I don't even have to be attractive to him!  Now I'm not sure that I can stand for that.

To be clear, I've always been okay with escorts but should I be worried now?  In light of this data, would my reservations be justified?  Should I ignore this data merely because I've never heard of any cases of escorts sexually assaulting photographers?  If I worry about it, does that make me paranoid and foolish?

If so, why would I be paranoid and foolish when the data backs the stance but a model is "smart and being safe" for assuming that a photographer is so much more dangerous than her escort in the face of statistics to the contrary?  Just curious...




:::Disclaimer:  all statements are made to point to the ridiculousness of nonsensical fears.  They are in no way intended to belittle or downplay the very serious and attrocious crimes of rape & sexual assault.  At the same time, it would be nice if people wouldn't just assume that every photographer was willing and capable of committing an act so despicable but I digress...:::

A model who has been sexually assaulted and subsequently makes it a policy to bring someone with her... well, I can certainly understand.


What I don't understand is all the models who've never had any negative experiences and probably don't even know anyone who has... well, how is it that they are convinced that something's going to happen?

Melvin Moten Jr wrote:

Actually, I don't have a problem with escorts.  I just have a problem with your escort.  But I suppose somehow I'll live without working with you and Frankenstein Jr.

Good luck to you...and the next photographer that has to deal with your pet dinosaur.

WOW you realy showing up how "woundeful" you are in intelectual and intelligent level , you need to learn how to respect other people , dont call them names specialy when u never meet them....i feel sorry for your family members ad people around you, if you treat and call names person you never meet this way i just imaging how you treat people you see every day .
good luck to you.

Rabbit86 wrote:

WOW you realy showing up how "woundeful" you are in intelectual and intelligent level , you need to learn how to respect other people , dont call them names specialy when u never meet them....i feel sorry for your family members ad people around you, if you treat and call names person you never meet this way i just imaging how you treat people you see every day .
good luck to you.

I feel sorry for the next photographer who has to deal with your language barrier and your not-so-jolly Green Giant.  Somehow I think I'll be doing more work than you will this year despite my "lack of respect."  Perhaps what you should spend the next year doing is learning our language before you get into another jam...oh wait, you have Babe the Blue Ox with you to throttle your way out of the next bad situation you stumble into!  What a great idea!

Just for the record, I rarely call people names...Unless it's some knuckle-dragging, mono syllabic stereotype who has no business at a photoshoot...And none of my friends or famly fit that description, so they're pretty safe from me.  Your enforcer Dimitry happens to fit that description perfectly, so he's gonna get both barrels from me at every occasion.

Melvin Moten Jr wrote:
Just for the record, I rarely call people names...Unless it's some knuckle-dragging, mono syllabic stereotype who has no business at a photoshoot...And none of my friends or famly fit that description, so they're pretty safe from me.  Your enforcer Dimitry happens to fit that description perfectly, so he's gonna get both barrels from me at every occasion.

Hmm my point was very simple and you keep making it again and again, you never meet this person and you keep calling him something hes not? Even tough i already say that if photog not cool with escort i never try to convince him other wise i just move to next, and totaly respect every person i meet in this business , which i cant say about you.
I have and will have enough work i am shure of it, i just glad not all photog like you that all.
As i say before good luck to you  and people you work with.

James Jackson wrote:

jasontheartist wrote:
That happened in the next city over from me. So what makes you think you deserve to be trusted?

Really?  You know Jason, and you know which next city over from him he's talking about? and you know of an incident in which a 'photographer' used the lure of photography to rape/murder a model?  Really?  Then why don't you provide names/dates/news articles...  You know why? because it DIDN'T HAPPEN!  It is all bull shit.

I just wanted to bump this back up so it didn't get lost.

Amateur Photographer Kidnapped and Killed Beauties
http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=2329845&page=1

Another murder: 
http://www.francesfarmersrevenge.com/st … sobeck.htm

Victor Paleologus, posing as a photographer kidnapped and killed a West Michigan native in 2003- sentenced to 25-years-to-life.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14852901/


This is also a good piece: Advising to check your photographer:
http://www.woodtv.com/Global/story.asp?s=5202003


I don't think that because one is an older story is very important because it didn't obviously doesn't stop there. I think just because it happens it is a good to be aware. Again, I am not on a *side*. I just googled and went to facts. But everyone should just be aware because I think that if these women took the right steps of precaution, they would still be alive today.

We should ALL be safe, photographers/models/stylists/mua's...But I think it is very sad that we have to see these things happen, it is truly horrible. I feel terribly for those poor families, but people get murdered everywhere and that is just so sad. Help yourself and others by being aware and informed. No one can deny promoting that. 

I think everyone is entitled to their opinion and I respect other people’s decisions. In the end, everyone does what they want!

-Jael-

oldguysrule wrote:

so basically you're promoting escorts as marketing?

Wow, that was quite a leap!

ItalyBondage wrote:
Hi all.. well.. because of kind of my photoshoots, many models asks about bring escort with them. I've no problem with that, just because the model could feel more confortable and we can make good shoots. A girl once bring his ex-bf and we've a really funny shoot.. He helps me moving her around while she was tied up, and obviously she trust him more than me.. She feels very confortable, it was her first bondage photoshoot and then we made some others. It's important the model have feeling and trust on the photographer, for the quality of the shoots.. and if she needs to bring someone with her to relax herself, that's good! I usually tell the girls I work with, and come alone, to test the "photographers" they met on the net, simply telling them they bring an escort.. serious people don't mind about that.. bad people usually have problems like "I can't shoot with strangers around (forgetting that the model sometimes is a stranger too..:-P)"

Girls, don't go on shoots alone... specially shoots with photographers you meet on the net..

You realize that most of us don't tie our models up, don't you?  I would not have a problem with an escort if I were tying women up.  How else would you move them to the chipper?

ANNABELLA wrote:
In this day and age even the most hardened criminlas have no record.

huh?

Jael Miller wrote:
Amateur Photographer Kidnapped and Killed Beauties
http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=2329845&page=1

20-30 years ago, and the two women he is convicted of killing went together with him, thus proving the point that if you are escorted it is no safer than if you are not.

Jael Miller wrote:
Another murder: 
http://www.francesfarmersrevenge.com/st … sobeck.htm

Also 20 years ago

Jael Miller wrote:
Victor Paleologus, posing as a photographer kidnapped and killed a West Michigan native in 2003- sentenced to 25-years-to-life.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14852901/

If the "model" had done her job and checked out who she was going with then she would have realized he was not who he said he was.  Not a photographer again, that disqualifies this from teh conversation.

Jael Miller wrote:
This is also a good piece: Advising to check your photographer:
http://www.woodtv.com/Global/story.asp?s=5202003

No it is not "a good piece" unless you mean a good piece of sensationalist bull crap.

It is about the first 'news' item you quoted, of a 'photographer' 20-30 years ago who murdered a model AND her escort.

Anyone else?  Anything relevant or within the past couple of years? Cause I gotta tell you, walking around my neighborhood at night 20-30 years ago would have gotten me murdered, but I do it with impunity today.

Rossi Photography wrote:
Sorry for the long wait. I couldn't find the damn disc, had to size them down... then of course, when I want to do something quick my computer starts giving me shit. So, anyway... Here's a few...

He wanted a voyuer (sp?) type theme, where he's just naked in the woods, slightly out of focus and being watched through the bushes, trees, etc...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/ … C_6761.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/ … C_6754.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/ … ltered.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/ … C_6856.jpg

This one was his request. He wanted to be 'one with nature'. Lol...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/ … C_6856.jpg


Damn! I didn't think it'd take fricken hour. I gotta clean this computer out an restart. It's running like I'm on dial-up. Be back in a few. I'm not tired anymore. Lol...

And keep in mind, this is not the type of work I normally do. I was left with the impression in the beginning discussing this shoot it would be more along the lines of artistic nude, but needless to say it wasn't.

Oh NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooo....My EYES....MY EYES!!!!! How did you do it? He.....its......~shudder~ I can't....to much.

ANNABELLA wrote:
Although let's just say that the times that I have brought someone with me to a shoot was because I felt I had too: it was in a studio somewhere or just cause well...I had my  women's intuition kick in about certain things. But for the most part I schedule my shoots during the day anyway and its usually on location and other models should do the same.

you truly believe bringing someone will eliminate the danger?
if your women's intuition kicked in wtf were you doing shooting with this guy in the first place?

and oh yeah you don't wanna do those studio shoots. dig the hotel rooms better?

oldguysrule wrote:

see you don't allow escorts, you promote them. that is why it is suspicious. you pay lip service to the concept of everyone has their choice to make, then you suggest that it is not safe to shoot without an escort.

what that implies is that photographers (you too) are by nature dangerous, that they cannot be trusted no matter their reputations or references. that damages everyone. this is essentially fearmongering -- and by virtue of your proclamation that escorts are good come shoot with me -- a sick marketing ploy.

that is why photographers who [b]promote the use of[b] escorts are a plague.

Again, I'm not PROMOTING anything.

I'm simply stating what I would do, which is my opinion.

Again, if photographers are not really interested in shooting models that insist on escorts, then what is their point exactly?

Because I state that a model has a right to an escort is not the same as saying that photographers are dangerous.

If I wear a seat belt, am I saying that all drivers out there are dangerous?

Should other drivers on the road with me be offended?

Come on!

oldguysrule wrote:

huh?

I'll add a double huh.  The escort issue is more one of comfort then safety
always has been always will be.

Marko Cecic-Karuzic wrote:

Why am I on an internet site? If you look at the little sampling that I post here (very clearly not internet-driven) and the humongous number of posts I've made here (sheesh!), and further that most of the time (such as now) I'm on a different continent from the grand majority of people I talk to here anyway, it should be pretty clear that looking for models is not on my agenda. When I was in art school we used to shoot the shit in the darkroom all the time, and that's something that I miss, so I now do it here. Instead of watching TV.

Finally, why do I go around debunking popular internet myths? To combat the damage done to the culture of this art/business by the large and totally uneducated prosumer population with all their myths and misconceptions about what goes on in photography, because this very large DSLR-wielding group affects our culture, and it's from those ranks that the photographers of the future will come.

Allright dude, you just keep on "debunking" non-existant myths. You obviously have a lot of time on your hands to do it.

And models will continue to insist on escorts.

Stick a fork in me...I'm SO done!

James Jackson wrote:

The *only* way I can see making that happen Alan is if models did what they should all be doing and #1) check the list of models the photographer has shot and ask the models questions #2) Have a full conversation with the photographer discussing the shoot, and have a clear mental picture and written account of what you are expecting to happen at the shoot.

Trouble is that often there is now way to contact those models. And photographers shouldn't give out numbers of models they work with. Unless it is with permission.

James Jackson wrote:
Jael, I already talked about these.

Jael Miller wrote:
Amateur Photographer Kidnapped and Killed Beauties
http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=2329845&page=1

20-30 years ago, and the two women he is convicted of killing went together with him, thus proving the point that if you are escorted it is no safer than if you are not.

Jael Miller wrote:
Another murder: 
http://www.francesfarmersrevenge.com/st … sobeck.htm

Also 20 years ago

Jael Miller wrote:
Victor Paleologus, posing as a photographer kidnapped and killed a West Michigan native in 2003- sentenced to 25-years-to-life.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14852901/

If the "model" had done her job and checked out who she was going with then she would have realized he was not who he said he was.  Not a photographer again, that disqualifies this from teh conversation.



No it is not "a good piece" unless you mean a good piece of sensationalist bull crap.

It is about the first 'news' item you quoted, of a photographer 20-30 years ago who murdered a model AND her escort.

Anyone else?  Anything relevant or within the past couple of years? Cause I gotta tell you, walking around my neighborhood at night 20-30 years ago would have gotten me murdered, but I do it with impunity today.

Oh wow, I am not trying to inform you, I'm sorry if you didn't like it. I thought it was a good piece because it was an outsider from MM and thought that people would like to read it. I didn't mean to offend you; I like to promote everyone’s safety.

I wouldn't want you to be murdered by a model either so I am promoting that everyone should do their homework. Do you not agree that people should be aware and informed?

You sound a little defensive, I did not mean to make you that way and I absolutely am not trying to argue...
I think that people should just read and be aware. I leave it up to people to make up their own minds.

I think you agree with me because you say "If the "model" had done her job and checked out who she was going with then she would have realized he was not who he said he was." So that is exactly what I am saying. We don't know if everyone on MM is legit so why not take a precaution and get some references on models/photographers. Again, my apologies if you thought I was stirring up something, I only wish those women had better awareness before, don't you?

-Jael-

Jay Bowman wrote:
Because of this, maybe I should bring an escort:


Photographer robbed by fake clients:
http://www.surrey.police.uk/news_item.asp?artid=2460



It could happen to you, too.  Be very, very afraid...

~smile~ I think if we all learn kung foo we will be safer!

Jael Miller wrote:
~smile~ I think if we all learn kung foo we will be safer!

:::snicker:::



This is true.  Though personally I prefer the art of Chip-fu, as I've found practicing its intricately subtle beauty to be quite soothing...

Jay Bowman wrote:
Because of this, maybe I should bring an escort:


Photographer robbed by fake clients:
http://www.surrey.police.uk/news_item.asp?artid=2460



It could happen to you, too.  Be very, very afraid...

Again, I must say a curse on whatever mod deleted the famous Gina Lee thread.  The single most effective and conclusive argument against boyfriend/husband escorts EVER!  Why couldn't the thread have been locked but left where we could reference it?

Jay Bowman wrote:

:::snicker:::



This is true.  Though personally I prefer the art of Chip-fu, as I've found practicing its intricately subtle beauty to be quite soothing...

Ahhh...well I know the art of Capoeira! Not to mention my years of kickboxing, then that one sad semester of Karate...speaking of which, I am training for a marathon....have to go outside for my run! Have a beautiful day!

-Jael-

Jael Miller wrote:
Again, my apologies if you thought I was stirring up something, I only wish those women had better awareness before, don't you?

-Jael-

Please read the thread, read all my responses, and you will have your answer.

James Jackson wrote:

Please read the thread, read all my responses, and you will have your answer.

~smile~ Have a wonderful day!

-Jael-


Modeling? Check your photographer
http://www.woodtv.com/Global/story.asp?s=5202003

little apple blossom wrote:

This is my exact complaint about the photographers. You expect us to just trust you some man we've never meant when we're obviously outmatched in size in an isolated area, but you do not trust us to bring a reasonable escort with us for our own safety all because of a few bad experiences you have had. kettle black.

Melvin Moten Jr wrote:

I dunno...you may need the sluggo chipper here...just a little feeling i'm getting.

Does that have duller chipper teeth..Ti inflict pain..sluggos...chip chip..slowly...

:-)

little apple blossom wrote:
This is my exact complaint about the photographers. You expect us to just trust you some man we've never meant when we're obviously outmatched in size in an isolated area, but you do not trust us to bring a reasonable escort with us for our own safety all because of a few bad experiences you have had. kettle black.

okay...I'm not going to argue anyone's right on this planet to feel safe.  but this kind of brings the point home.

all because of a few bad experiences you have had  really does say that lil' apple blossom here is essentially stating the hypocritical point that seems to permutate through all of this.

The point being is that we all live in cities (well, most of us) where the chance of rape, murder, etc exists even if the female is not a model.  There was one post that showed 4 cases of photographers against models - but how many other similar stories and news articles have their been about managers, boyfriends, co-workers, bosses, etc during that same period of time?  I would suspect that GIVEN the percentage of oppurtunities, the overall percentages are quite low when compared to other situations that occur in real life.  People mention GWC's etc?  I hate to tell you, but go to a singles bar and look around sometime.  I used to run a bar, believe me...GWC's are a step up from the the gutter pool.

So really, is this just an unfounded or exaggerated fear?  I saw one post that stated . if I had a daughter .. well, I do, she's 14 now, cute as a button and she'll probably model when she gets older.  I hope by now, I've taught her how to be street smart and MOST IMPORTANTLY is how to walk the damn streets in the evening or go out to clubs and parties - because alot more of that occurs during those instances than what I've heard via a photographer in a studio. 

I haven't seen one thread on here about sleezeball managers - that I find odd, as any rationale logic would seem to indicate that the basis of control, motivation and oppurtunity would be far greater with a manager than with a photographer.  If it's the case where there is a percentage of managers that take advantage of these naiive models, then all we are doing (on the pro-escort side of the fence) is re-affirming to them that their manager is right and should be listened to...so is it helping the situation any?

markcomp wrote:

You realize that most of us don't tie our models up, don't you?  I would not have a problem with an escort if I were tying women up.  How else would you move them to the chipper?

I tie models up all the time...and they never seem to feel the need for escorts with me.  It's all a matter of who you are and how you conduct business.  I have a sterling reputation that proceeds me, so it's never a big deal.  Usually when a model brings someone to my shoot, it's because that person wants to be tied up too.

I said it before...this fellow does not speak for me nor the majority of bondage/fetish photographers out there.

ANNABELLA wrote:
Screw references, screw their work history because at the end of the day its your safety and well being that should always be a priority. In this day and age even the most hardened criminlas have no record.

So basically you're saying that your escort could be a hardened criminal and you wouldn't know about that either.

Well now I feel much better about the whole idea.

Rabbit86 wrote:

Hmm my point was very simple and you keep making it again and again, you never meet this person and you keep calling him something hes not? Even tough i already say that if photog not cool with escort i never try to convince him other wise i just move to next, and totaly respect every person i meet in this business , which i cant say about you.
I have and will have enough work i am shure of it, i just glad not all photog like you that all.
As i say before good luck to you  and people you work with.

Trust me -- your "respect" [and that of your friend Goliath] is of no importance to me.   Furthermore, I and the people I work with don't need "luck" -- we make a point of knowing what we're doing before we jump into something.  Which I can't say about you or your henchman.  Good luck to whomever has to deal with the two of you -- they're going to need it.

LarryB wrote:
Again, I must say a curse on whatever mod deleted the famous Gina Lee thread.  The single most effective and conclusive argument against boyfriend/husband escorts EVER!  Why couldn't the thread have been locked but left where we could reference it?

The moderators determined that the Gina Lee OP was a hoax. As this OP is likely too. Miss Rabbit, in her OMP profile explicitly offers these services: "Please dont ask for Adult video like boy-girl, or anal just not my thing. But musturbation playing with toys, male hands over my body or with toy that we can talk about."

The OP doesn't sound that different from the services that she apparently sells. I say "apparently" because, as she makes clear, it is a team effort. And, I am not saying it has to be the case here, but a motivated team is likely to walk off with your gear.

Hope that helps.

Star wrote:
Statistics are no substitute for judgment.   (Henry Clay)

Statistics are no substitute for poor judgment. (Curt Burgess)

Good critical thinking and judgment does take into account statistics. Otherwise one lives in fear in a world that doesn't require it. That will make a person rather neurotic....

There is alot of fear mongering going on hear and some very bad judgments being made that allow people to put themselves in a bad space.

What we seem to have here often is the POV that escorts are a substitute for statistics and good judgment. This leads too some shocking assumptions on the part of people here.

For example:

ANNABELLA wrote:
Screw references, screw their work history because at the end of the day its your safety and well being that should always be a priority. In this day and age even the most hardened criminlas have no record.

This isn't right. It's so bad it's not even wrong! "Screw references"!  I can't believe the idiocy of this statement. References are critical. It is careless not to check them. And horrible advice to subject to other models that they "screw references."  It is simply advice that will promote intellectual laziness and is exactly the kind of bad advice that gets models into trouble.

Rabbit86 wrote:
Well thank you all for replays as i stated it was very beginning of rmy modeling work second shoot , i was so ne to this i dint think to chek refferrences or anything else.

Didn't check references or "anything else."  I'm stunned. People who can't think well often get into trouble.

Escorts are not a cure for bad judgment. (Curt Burgess)

Rabbit86 wrote:
Well it wasnt touch as i say it was squeezing parts of my body , squizeeeing hands bewten parts of my body ...and comon when photographer graqb your breasts and hold them for longer then 5-10 seconds that required to move you topose it does seen like  setting up the pose from any angle ...

Wow. Talk about not thinking well. Can any other model comment on this?  That is under what circumstances would you allow yourself of have your breasts grabed AND held for LONGER than 10 seconds?  I'm stunned that this model allowed this and more. This is someone who shouldn't be modeling. She has no sense of what her boundaries should be. I also feel sorry for her escort given the circumstances that she is certainly going to be putting him into given this kind of extraordinarily bad judgment. I wouldn't want to get close to a model who shows this kind of judgment but who does adult work complete with wronkled sheets and on-camera flash shadows and spread-eagle shots in the backseat of a car. This is not someone who is serious about her craft

jasontheartist wrote:
...well how does she know you arent the 1 in a million that wants to keep her in your homemade dungeon and are using this platform as a way to find her? ....

This is the kind of stupid reasoning that I've seen alot on this thread.  There are so many things that we do everyday that have potentially horrible outcomes whose odds are much more likely than this "1 in a million" number.  But we do not live our lives in fear (most of us). Using this reasoning, you should not even leave your house.

jasontheartist wrote:
....That happened in the next city over from me....

Over on the real escort Thread, where critical thinking trumps bullshit, we don't allow this kind of fearmongering.  These suggestions of evil doings on models without any verification for the reader is nothing but fearmongering and just raises the anxiety level of the uninformed and those who choose to stay ignorant. We hear all these stories which would certainly generate news coverage - but no evidence.

Common sense suggests that if there were as many evil photographers as this fearmongering thread would suggest there is there would be LOTS of stories ON THIS THREAD about these horrible events. But there are hardly any. And this whole thread was started by a model who lets her breasts be held for longer than 10 seconds and who "dint think to chek refferrences or anything else" [sic].

Most of the pro-escort "stories" and reasoning on this thread is alot like telling ghost stories. They are stories about things that don't happen but are good and scary and are titilating to talk about. So have fun with that on this escort thread - it seems to be where the fearmongers are really enjoying hanging out with models who have trouble thinking in an adult fashion about their hobby. 

If you are interested in engaging in good critical thinking about these issues come over to The Thread. There you can hear from many models who understand how to act like mature adults and professionals and who share about how they check out photographers and make judgments about whether or not to do a shoot (some of who are posting here).

Jael M wrote:
OK! I will check back in the morning....

ALSO, just so people don't think I wasn't paying attention to the post...I am not on a "side" here...just saw this on the news and thought it was related.

Amateur Photographer Kidnapped and Killed Beauties:
http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=2329845&page=1

I know someone was asking for times/dates/location etc.... I would ask ABC, they did the story.

-Jael-

This a funny example to drag out. I've seen pro-escort types do it many times. The women (not models) who got killed were making very dangerous decisions.

From the article:
"He frequented bars … and he would convince the women that he was a legitimate photographer and he wanted to take them somewhere, take their photograph and then possibly get them into a modeling career," Peavy said. "A lot of women did take him up on the offer. Some of them didn't come home."

So a guy hits a woman up in a bar and wants to take them alone somewhere right then to take their photograph.

You got to be kidding me that you think this is even relevant. Frankly, the idiots that went with him are only improving the gene pool.

He wasn't a photographer with any credentials whatsoever. Not even a freebie modeling web site. He was a handyman.

This is so condescending because if you think this story is relevant then you're assuming that models are as stupid as these non-models he picked up in bars and convinced to come out alone with them to take their picture.

What was your point in presenting this moronic story?  You said you thought it was related and it is in a completely mindless way. This is exactly the kind of fearmongering that is rampant on this thread. Do you have an verifiable stories that might be relevant to a model on MM who wouldn't be as stupid as the women who went out with him? Just because there are stupid people is no rationale for an escort. I suspect if one of  those women would have taken a friend, the killer would have just got a 2-for-1 special.

Is there any model reading this post who would have gone out with this guy?  Seriously. Anyone?