John Hoenstine wrote:
As a photographer or model why, why not have someone else there with you?

I agree. Why not?

I have yet to hear a convincing argument as to why someone should not be allowed to bring an escort. (aside from the very rare horror stories that people put out here)

Image K wrote:
Your joking, right?

Again, if you don't care about shooting models that insist on escorts, what is the f***ing problem?
Second, why are you on an internet site when you don't care what they think, or don't need them for work?
Third, I never have told a model to suspect the motives of a photographer who will not allow escorts. I have simply stated that a model should do what she needs to do to be comfortable, and if a photographer is not willing to do that, she should go elsewhere.
Period.

Why am I on an internet site? If you look at the little sampling that I post here (very clearly not internet-driven) and the humongous number of posts I've made here (sheesh!), and further that most of the time (such as now) I'm on a different continent from the grand majority of people I talk to here anyway, it should be pretty clear that looking for models is not on my agenda. When I was in art school we used to shoot the shit in the darkroom all the time, and that's something that I miss, so I now do it here. Instead of watching TV.

Finally, why do I go around debunking popular internet myths? To combat the damage done to the culture of this art/business by the large and totally uneducated prosumer population with all their myths and misconceptions about what goes on in photography, because this very large DSLR-wielding group affects our culture, and it's from those ranks that the photographers of the future will come.

Rossi Photography wrote:
Sorry for the long wait. I couldn't find the damn disc, had to size them down... then of course, when I want to do something quick my computer starts giving me shit. So, anyway... Here's a few...

He wanted a voyuer (sp?) type theme, where he's just naked in the woods, slightly out of focus and being watched through the bushes, trees, etc...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/ … C_6761.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/ … C_6754.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/ … ltered.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/ … C_6856.jpg

This one was his request. He wanted to be 'one with nature'. Lol...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/ … C_6856.jpg


Damn! I didn't think it'd take fricken hour. I gotta clean this computer out an restart. It's running like I'm on dial-up. Be back in a few. I'm not tired anymore. Lol...

And keep in mind, this is not the type of work I normally do. I was left with the impression in the beginning discussing this shoot it would be more along the lines of artistic nude, but needless to say it wasn't.

GOOD GAWD WOMAN!! YOU MADE MY COFFEE COME OUT THROUGH MY NOSE!!
OWWWWWW!! OWWWWWWWWWW!! I'M -DYIN'- HERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Really, this sh- er, stuff is too funny!

ItalyBondage wrote:
Hi all.. well.. because of kind of my photoshoots, many models asks about bring escort with them. I've no problem with that, just because the model could feel more confortable and we can make good shoots. A girl once bring his ex-bf and we've a really funny shoot.. He helps me moving her around while she was tied up, and obviously she trust him more than me.. She feels very confortable, it was her first bondage photoshoot and then we made some others. It's important the model have feeling and trust on the photographer, for the quality of the shoots.. and if she needs to bring someone with her to relax herself, that's good! I usually tell the girls I work with, and come alone, to test the "photographers" they met on the net, simply telling them they bring an escort.. serious people don't mind about that.. bad people usually have problems like "I can't shoot with strangers around (forgetting that the model sometimes is a stranger too..:-P)"

Girls, don't go on shoots alone... specially shoots with photographers you meet on the net..

OGR..You see my Newbie Chipper?

Randy Blevins wrote:
I usually ask the model to met me before we ever shoot at all-
1] to make sure that we have the some ideas prior to shooting
2] so the the model feels comfortable with me before the shoot
3] to understand the model as to exactly what her limits are as
to clothes,nude,semi,implied--- 
4] make sure I am comfortable with her [ I know that may seem strange]

  If the model and I have not shot before I suggest that she bring a female escort
{ friend, couple of times their mother} - I have had BAD luck with male escorts-
  Once I rented 2 dresses for the model to wear during the shoot { $150 rental at my cost} and the dress was low cut in the front and required either no bra or a colored bra for the dress- I had requested that the model bring certain colors of
clothes for this reason = she didnt for some weird reason --turns out that her
escort is her controlling married boyfriend - what a complete waste of my time and about $300 worth of rental and film expenses for the day-not including he and I almost getting into a fight ---the complete shoot was terrible=

This has happened a couple of times with the boy friends, most husbands seem to be a little easier to be around if their wife is already modeling--

5] Several of my recent models seemed to like the fact that I am older {51} and
been married for 11 years and have gotten to met my wife--
and that I am not looking for a date or otherwise-

6]  I sometimes feel more comfortable with a MUA on the set or the models
female escort -- on at least 4 or 5 photo shoots I have had a model come on to
me and felt uneasy myself -- { I know that may be hard to believe  but I have
several other photographers tell me the same thing-} I try and be pro about
every thing I do -- and don't want to get a bad rap or rep over something

7] and I usually provide 2-3 references ahead of time-

well there u have it--
my thoughts on escorts according to Randy Blevins

Compliments to you Randy - for your balance, common sense, and reaching a decision based on each model (and their individual situation/merits)!!!

Image K wrote:

I didn't say that you are dangerous.

I'm just pointing out that there are plenty of quality photographers that don't mind escorts.

Until they become extinct, models that like to bring escorts DO NOT NEED to worry about shooting photographers that don't like escorts.

so basically you're promoting escorts as marketing?

Vance wrote:

OGR..You see my Newbie Chipper?

I dunno...you may need the sluggo chipper here...just a little feeling i'm getting.

Image K wrote:

I agree. Why not?

I have yet to hear a convincing argument as to why someone should not be allowed to bring an escort. (aside from the very rare horror stories that people put out here)

That logic works both ways...Aside from a [very] few horror stories that people like to circulate [all of questionable factuality], where's the convincing argument that models need escorts...providing they've done their due dilligence before even agreeing to the shoot?

ItalyBondage wrote:
Hi all.. well.. because of kind of my photoshoots, many models asks about bring escort with them. I've no problem with that, just because the model could feel more confortable and we can make good shoots. A girl once bring his ex-bf and we've a really funny shoot.. He helps me moving her around while she was tied up, and obviously she trust him more than me.. She feels very confortable, it was her first bondage photoshoot and then we made some others. It's important the model have feeling and trust on the photographer, for the quality of the shoots.. and if she needs to bring someone with her to relax herself, that's good! I usually tell the girls I work with, and come alone, to test the "photographers" they met on the net, simply telling them they bring an escort.. serious people don't mind about that.. bad people usually have problems like "I can't shoot with strangers around (forgetting that the model sometimes is a stranger too..:-P)"

Girls, don't go on shoots alone... specially shoots with photographers you meet on the net..

Not so fast, pal.  I do the same kind of work you do, and I can't remember the last time a model needed an escort to "feel safe" with me.  I've travelled all over the US and worked with models from most of the 50 states...And the fact is I have yet to hear any of the horror stories people like yourself propagate in our genre...It just dosen't seem to happen.  Not ever. 

Now, maybe a model needs an escort to feel comfortable around you...but that's your personal problem which I'm not interested in being held accountable for.  I have a long list of references that any prospective model can contact to obtain the 4-1-1 on me...If after doing that research they still don't feel comfortable working with me, then they can just find someone else...I have better things to do than help someone else deal with the insecurity issues guys like you keep stoking the fire underneath.

Image K wrote:
If I had a daughter, I would beg her to never do a shoot without an escort.

see you don't allow escorts, you promote them. that is why it is suspicious. you pay lip service to the concept of everyone has their choice to make, then you suggest that it is not safe to shoot without an escort.

what that implies is that photographers (you too) are by nature dangerous, that they cannot be trusted no matter their reputations or references. that damages everyone. this is essentially fearmongering -- and by virtue of your proclamation that escorts are good come shoot with me -- a sick marketing ploy.

that is why photographers who [b]promote the use of[b] escorts are a plague.

oldguysrule wrote:

see you don't allow escorts, you promote them. that is why it is suspicious. you pay lip service to the concept of everyone has their choice to make, then you suggest that it is not safe to shoot without an escort.

what that implies is that photographers (you too) are by nature dangerous, that they cannot be trusted no matter their reputations or references. that damages everyone. this is essentially fearmongering -- and by virtue of your proclamation that escorts are good come shoot with me -- a sick marketing ploy.

that is why photographers who [b]promote the use of[b] escorts are a plague.

And they're usually not the greatest photographers either...Not that I'm singling anyone out.

Melvin Moten Jr wrote:
And they're usually not the greatest photographers either...Not that I'm singling anyone out.

if they were they might be able to use their work for marketing instead of other 'tools'

STANLEY LAFLEUR wrote:
i just realised something i had a 3 in 1 shoot yesterday and funny enough i dont really care if an escort is there or not.... 1 girl turned up by herself.... another one turned up with his girlfriend and another one turned up with a driver/ mm photographer... and reall i saw them twice...... at the bigining of the shoot when i said hello and at the end when i said goodbye... yes you have the idiots who will mess up your flow or what not .... but hey WHATEVER WORKS FOR YOU WORKS FOR ME!!! AND LIFE GOES ON!!!! you wanna bring your escort do so..... you dont want to have any escort around do so.... the choice is yours....... when i work in a studio and i am paying for my time i make the rules simple as that... CANT WE ALL JUST GET ALONG!!!!

Good on you, mate.  You do your next shoot with the OP [and her pal Gigantor]...be sure and let us know how that works out for you.

PapaVic Photography wrote:

GOOD GAWD WOMAN!! YOU MADE MY COFFEE COME OUT THROUGH MY NOSE!!
OWWWWWW!! OWWWWWWWWWW!! I'M -DYIN'- HERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Really, this sh- er, stuff is too funny!

LMAO!!!

Alan from Aavian Prod wrote:
The answer is not to criticize the model who is uncomfortable because she brings someone along, it is to find ways to create an environment where it isn't necessary.

In the mainstream, models are in a studio with a crew.  On the net, it is often a party of two.  Models shouldn't have to weigh their good experiences against the bad, let'st stop the bad ones all together.

Succinct and well written Alan!

Rabbit86 wrote:
Once at very beginning i was with my friend at shoot photogrpaher ask him to leave not just outside door but go outside building and come back 3 hours later, God bless my budy who stay on 3rd floor of hotel where photo shoot was  happening , in first 40 minut was ok but then so call " photographer" start squizing hes hands where they not should be without even asking, strat pushing me around like a toy placing and holding hands on areas i dont feel COOl with . When i ask to stop he so call "pro" tell me tha he talk to my budy and he say it would be ok with me to do this kind "work" good thing my budy was in corridor beacose i have to run out to call him in ( dont whant to tell you how i was feeling and that i was ollst crying) so budy 6'3" , 200lbs russian dont ask a lot of questions for him was enought to see my face , lucky "photographer" i stay betwen him and Dmitry ( my friend) other wise "pro" would probably end up in hispital and Dmitry in jail.
So please forgive me professionals ( dont mean to sound it offencive to you all i know 99% of you best good guys and very pro on shoot) if dont feel ok sence this day to stay alone with photographer in room even if it second or third session , i just feel very comfy and relax when isee my friend in shadow of studio.

I'm sorry. Speaking of professional and perception...I just have a real hard time giving this any legitimacy when ever 2nd word is spelled incorrectly.

Michael Pandolfo wrote:

I'm sorry. Speaking of professional and perception...I just have a real hard time giving this any legitimacy when ever 2nd word is spelled incorrectly.

Russian girl with limited English fluency, that's all that is,  no big deal.

Image K wrote:
I'm just pointing out that there are plenty of quality photographers that don't mind escorts.

And we've proven time and again through thread after thread that this statement is simply not true.  The quality and experience of a photographer seems to be directly proportionate to their likelihood of raising a stink when a model wants an 'escort'. 

Most likely this is because most of the best photographers come from the world of using photography to make their living and they have very little time to put up with bull shit.

Image K wrote:

I agree. Why not?

I have yet to hear a convincing argument as to why someone should not be allowed to bring an escort. (aside from the very rare horror stories that people put out here)

A convincing argument?

It's not really an argument.   It's that as the photographer, the person who is conducting the series of shots, I get to call the shots.   I wouldn't call where I work a true set, but it's my turf... my rules.

And this isn't because I'm a professional photographer, because I'm not.    It's just common sense to how I see it working.  People who don't like it don't have to work with me.


You want to be a sluggo or white knight, getting models because you kiss their ass, jolly on you!   I don't NEED models that badly that I'm going to compromise how I work and start letting walking meat lockers into my sphere, just because Buffy or Irina or Imelda claim they need it to "feel safe with me."  That's just BS.

Marko Cecic-Karuzic wrote:
The only problem I have is when internet amateurs, often but not always calling themselves managers, sporting portfolios that actually DO make me question their motives sometimes, try to tell models over and over and over again about how they're not safe with those photographers (like me) who don't like extraneous people around when shooting, how that's a red flag. Thus making themselves (and their not-always-totally-pure-motives) look saintly by comparison. One of the typical sluggo tactics is to continually intimidate their model (in this case always a woman) with threats that every other photograher (in this case always a man) wants into their pants, or worse, and that only they can keep them safe and out of trouble.

Marko, you're correct about managers, and of course many of us won't shoot with models who have so-called-managers.  But that's an entirely different animal than bringing a friend as an escort.

Marko Cecic-Karuzic wrote:

Russian girl with limited English fluency, that's all that is,  no big deal.

Polish.  Her bodyguard/translator/photographer is Russian.

jasontheartist wrote:
That happened in the next city over from me. So what makes you think you deserve to be trusted?

James Jackson wrote:
Really??? Where? when? what were the circumstances... I want names and dates and news articles...

Melissa Vultaggio wrote:
Why do you need a place or a time or the circumstances? This happened!!!!

Really?  You know Jason, and you know which next city over from him he's talking about? and you know of an incident in which a 'photographer' used the lure of photography to rape/murder a model?  Really?  Then why don't you provide names/dates/news articles...  You know why? because it DIDN'T HAPPEN!  It is all bull shit.  The last photographer to be even accused of raping/murdering a model had an ongoing relationship with the model who was also a junkie and living in the accused photographer's studio.  I doubt that any of you "escort" promoters would even *think* that after a two year ongoing relationship in which you LIVE with the photographer that you would need an escort to be around him.

The only other example in recent history was over 20 years ago!!!!

Melissa Vultaggio wrote:
And for this reason I bring a male ecort with me at all times!!

*sniff*  *sniff* what's that I smell? Oh... right... bull shit.

I know of no woman who brings a male escort with her "at all times".  And if you do, you need to seek professional help or move back in with mommy.

Melissa Vultaggio wrote:
I have not had any problems with this, in fact I have even had call backs for more work with my ecort to even pose with me. I do feel that if any model wants to bring a ecort it is her choice to feel safe! Not the photographers!

Well you would from me, and many other photographers... if a model wants to bring an escort, you're absolutely correct... it's her choice... it's *MY* choice not to accept that, and that is where the relationship ends.

James Jackson wrote:

And we've proven time and again through thread after thread that this statement is simply not true.  The quality and experience of a photographer seems to be directly proportionate to their likelihood of raising a stink when a model wants an 'escort'. 

Most likely this is because most of the best photographers come from the world of using photography to make their living and they have very little time to put up with bull shit.

Actually it is true that many skilled shooters have no objection to and escort of chaperone being present. With more than 50 years of photography I'm one of them.
Whle owning and operating a full service commercial studio, there was no question of chaperones being present as the models came from agencies and a crew was usually present. But now, in retirement I'm working alone with the model/client in my home studio. Whether being alone or having someone she knows around will cause the model to feel more relaxed, then that's fine with me. It usually is not a question of safety, instead it's simply having a familiar face with her in an unfamiliar situation.

jac3950 wrote:

James Jackson wrote:
The *only* way I can see making that happen Alan is if models did what they should all be doing and #1) check the list of models the photographer has shot and ask the models questions #2) Have a full conversation with the photographer discussing the shoot, and have a clear mental picture and written account of what you are expecting to happen at the shoot.

Can I add, James that the conversation (a conversation) should be in person or on the phone? Relying solely on email or other electronic messaging is not enough for either the model or the photographer. I want to hear the voice at the very least.

I believe it should be both.

The email provides a written record of expectations.  The phone call confirms an ability to communicate and overcome communications difficulties.

Aperture Photographics wrote:
But if the model wants to bring along that male escort, I NEVER object because that just causes suspicion and mistrust on the part of the model.

funny how suspicion and mistrust can come up despite our best efforts.  I, too, welcome escorts.  one model I chatted with extensively online, met in a public space for coffee, etc.  when I asked the 2nd time "do you want to bring someone with you?" she raised her eyebrows and replied "why?  do I need to?"

she came alone and the shoot went fine, btw, but still...

Doug Lester wrote:

Actually it is true that many skilled shooters have no objection to and escort of chaperone being present. With more than 50 years of photography I'm one of them.
Whle owning and operating a full service commercial studio, there was no question of chaperones being present as the models came from agencies and a crew was usually present. But now, in retirement I'm working alone with the model/client in my home studio. Whether being alone or having someone she knows around will cause the model to feel more relaxed, then that's fine with me. It usually is not a question of safety, instead it's simply having a familiar face with her in an unfamiliar situation.

Doug, perhaps I should have been more specific in my objection to the guy's post.  He said "plenty of quality photographers that don't mind escorts"

Image K wrote:
I have yet to hear a convincing argument as to why someone should not be allowed to bring an escort. (aside from the very rare horror stories that people put out here)

I have yet to hear a convincing argument as to why someone should be allowed to bring and escort (aside from the very rare horror stories that people put out there).

missing fingers product wrote:
im getting sick of this post . models out there , bring an escort and if the photog says no then dont work with them . plain and simple .

I'm getting sick of White Knights.  Models out there, don't trust anyone who says something like the above.  Plain and simple.

James Jackson wrote:

I'm getting sick of White Knights.  Models out there, don't trust anyone who says something like the above.  Plain and simple.

White knights are quickly overpassing sluggos on my dislike list.

missing fingers product wrote:
what do you mean by white knight?

someone help this man find a mirror please

missing fingers product wrote:
i dont think im a sluggo , perhaps someone who cuts the crap and gets a point across but diffenetly not a sluggo.

sluggos and white knights are different people.

James Jackson wrote:

And we've proven time and again through thread after thread that this statement is simply not true.  The quality and experience of a photographer seems to be directly proportionate to their likelihood of raising a stink when a model wants an 'escort'.

by that reasoning I am an awful photographer. Please all of you who agree with this statement raise your hand.

I think that these arguments prove that those who don't want escorts are the most VOCAL people. Not the best. Not the worst. Many people just don't care to argue about what they will and will not allow on their sets.

Since if you allow escorts there is no real reason to argue about it, I argue for the sake of the arguement, you don't see them talking that much.

Star