Tony Lawrence wrote:
Look most of the women on MM will never be professional models nor will
the photographers.  Many of us are hobbyists with limited connections to the
pro world. Many of us don't have studios.  Many of us have no business license.
Yet we expect models to come to home studios or wooded areas and pose.
In some cases nude.  All this without a friend.  Certainly  all the shooters
I know of here are cool people and most photographers a model might meet
will be cool and would never take advantage of a model but that doesn't make
her less afraid.  The question may be is this fear reasonable.  My wife is really
scared of snakes.  The likely hood she will ever see one is small but she's
always on the look out.  I sometimes laugh at her and also her fear of some
insects but to her its a problem.  We were talking about her fear of snakes one
day and although she's never been bitten as most models haven't had any problems
she's still afraid.  As thinking people we should examine our fears.  Yet there's
my wife on the snake lookout.  Again I take no sides on the escort issue and
really feel its silly.  Either go or don't.  By the way the snake fear is a common
one and may be hardwired into us.  In ancient times snakes and people were
not a good mix.

Nicely stated.

Models that insist on escorts are doing it for their own reasons. They should stick to those reasons.

If I was a model that was told that I could not bring an escort, I would literally RUN the other way!

There are plenty of quality photographers that have no problem with escorts.

Image K wrote:

Nicely stated.

Models that insist on escorts are doing it for their own reasons. They should stick to those reasons.

If I was a model that was told that I could not bring an escort, I would literally RUN the other way!

There are plenty of quality photographers that have no problem with escorts.

I don't like escorts.

Please tell me why this makes me dangerous.

KM von Seidl wrote:

I don't like escorts.

Please tell me why this makes me dangerous.

I didn't say that you are dangerous.

I'm just pointing out that there are plenty of quality photographers that don't mind escorts.

Until they become extinct, models that like to bring escorts DO NOT NEED to worry about shooting photographers that don't like escorts.

Image K wrote:

I didn't say that you are dangerous.

I'm just pointing out that there are plenty of quality photographers that don't mind escorts.

Until they become extinct, models that like to bring escorts DO NOT NEED to worry about shooting photographers that don't like escorts.

You wrote:

If I was a model that was told that I could not bring an escort, I would literally RUN the other way!


Why would you literally run the other way, if you were a model, and I told you, I'd prefer you don't bring an escort.


And yes, I know that there are millions of other photographers said model can work with, I want to know what is so scary about a female photographer that prefers not to have escorts hanging out.

KM von Seidl wrote:

You wrote:

If I was a model that was told that I could not bring an escort, I would literally RUN the other way!


Why would you literally run the other way, if you were a model, and I told you, I'd prefer you don't bring an escort.


And yes, I know that there are millions of other photographers said model can work with, I want to know what is so scary about a female photographer that prefers not to have escorts hanging out.

Ok, it's obvious that the "run the other way" reference disturbs you...

So I'll retract it. (it was an attempt at levity)

But it doesn't change the fact that if you want to have a "no escort" policy, that's your right.

The model will just move on to the photographer that doesn't mind escorts, wants her to be comfortable, and can provide her with the great quality that she is looking for.

And everybody's happy. She gets her prints, and you didn't have to deal with her escort.

Everybody's happy. What's wrong with that?

Image K wrote:

Ok, it's obvious that the "run the other way" reference disturbs you...

So I'll retract it. (it was an attempt at levity)

It REALLY bugs.  And let me explain why...SO MANY sluggos and white knights suggest that anyone, and I mean anyone who has a problem with escorts, must have ulterior motives.  It makes me crazy.  Especially since joe bob SLUGGO has no idea what my reasons are for not liking escorts.

Image K wrote:
But it doesn't change the fact that if you want to have a "no escort" policy, that's your right.

The model will just move on to the photographer that doesn't mind escorts, wants her to be comfortable, and can provide her with the great quality that she is looking for.

And everybody's happy. She gets her prints, and you didn't have to deal with her escort.

Everybody's happy. What's wrong with that?

Honestly, I don't give a damn about missing out on a model that insists on an escort.   

The further away I can be kept from people who are so fearful the better. 

The only thing I have a problem with is fear=mongering and character assassination.

Rossi Photography wrote:
Here's kind of a humorous story about a male nude shoot I did a couple months back, where I took an escort. Kinda' strange, kinda' creepy, kinda' funny... You may think I'm crazy for doing it, but ah well.. I was safe. It was a good laugh.

I wrote this in my blog, so I'm just gonna copy and paste it here as is...

So, you all want to hear about yesterday's shoot, eh!? Lol...

'k... This guy found my portfolio over at OMP. He writes me asking if I shoot male models...nudes. I'm not against nudity, so why not. Money to be made. So, I write him back telling him, yes, but nothing that is bordering porn. He writes again giving me the specifics, giving me details of what he wants, what it's for, etc... Yes, it was pushing my limits of how far I'd take the male nudes, but not too much. So, I told him I'd do it for $300. I probably could've gotten more, but oh well.

He accepted the price and he told me he'd need a couple weeks to save for it. So, I told him contact me when you're ready to schedule. About a week later, he asked if Thursday, July 20th was good. At this time, it was about two weeks before the date. I had already dipped into bill money and put it toward my studio equipment. I'd already had many shoots booked, so I wasn't totally screwed... I made up the money I spent already. But...the more money I make the more I can put it toward my studio. So, I scheduled his shoot. For the two weeks prior I was thinking about not doing it. But then I said to myself, "Hey... I'm a photographer. I want to make a living at this. I'm not always going to be able to have the pretty faces in front of my camera. Who cares what they look like, I'm getting paid. Fuck it! Do it!

I forgot to mention the guy is not a model, and not much to look at. Kind of a goofball.

So, I'm rackin' my brain figuring out how the hell I'm going to shoot this. Posing a male body is something TOTALLY different than posing females. Much harder (no pun intended!  Lol...).

One of the conditions of me doing this shoot was I decided I do it ONLY if I could get someone to go with me. I was NOT going to go alone. I didn't tell the guy I'd planned on bringing someone. But he surely couldn't of thought a female was going to go meet a complete stranger she'd met on the internet alone and photograph him nude. Right?

So, I found someone to go with me -- my friend Dick Derelict. He said to me, there's no way in hell I'm going to let you go to this alone, I'll go with you. So, it was set... Got someone to go with me, I was doing it.

Dan thought I was out of my skull. Lol... But hey! A guy friend would be with me, I'd be safe.

Okay... So, the location? He wanted location and studio. My studio wasn't available. So, told him we could get the shots he wanted at the location. So, an outdoor location where he can be nude...? Hmmmm....

I decided on a place where there'd be a good setting and secluded, run it by him and he liked it.

So, it's set.

A few days before the shoot, I get an e-mail from him asking me if it would be all right for him to have an erection in some of the shots. I read it and about spit my pop out of mouth and was like, 'Uhhhhh....' and I didn't write back. Was hoping that we'd get there and he'd forget about it. Hoping...

The day of the shoot...

Dick sends me an e-mail asking if we were still on. The shoot was scheduled for 1:30 P.M. It was about 10:30 A.M and it was raining, could hear some thunder... So, I was relieved in a way. Thought the shoot would be cancelled. But  after about an hour the weather wasn't looking too bad, so I figured fuck it, lets get it over with. The nude dude called about 12:30 to confirm and we pushed the shoot up to 2:00, due to the weather.

So, Dick gets here around 1:30, we head down to the location and nude dude's not there. He's coming from Novi, so I figured he was just running late. We waited. Now, it's hittin' about 3:00. I was beginning to think I'd been stiffed (no pun intended).

So, we're like okay, what now? Might as well hang out for few. Then I see the guy drive by. But he didn't stop. I know he saw us!

So, I gave him the benefit of the doubt and thought, well, he'll probably swing back around, lets wait.

We waited. We see him down the block. He doesn't drive toward us. He pulls off to the side of the street. The place we were at is a park that circles. The drive around the park is a huge circle. One way, no turning around. So, he was stuck. If he wanted out of the park, he would have to drive passed us. It was pretty obvious the guy did not want to drive passed us. He pulled to the side and just sat there. We could see him. I don't think he knew that. So, I'm like, Pfft! Lets walk down there and see what this clown's deal is!

We start walking, get half way there and he spots us and takes off, flies right by us! It's figured out by now that this guy got spooked when he saw I had someone with me and was not going to stop to talk to us.

We waited for him to go by again. He circled the park, but when he come around the corner where we could see him, he saw we were still there and puts his car in reverse! This is a one way park, the dude is trapped! So, Dick and I decided to jump in the car and circle the park and look for him. He obviously backed up when he saw us and parked somewhere. We whip around the park real quick and sure enough, there he was. He parked where we couldn't see his car and was sitting on a picnic table.

We pulled over, I got out and walked over to him. I said, "Are you here for a photoshoot.."? He looks up as if he's all suprised to see me (the dude saw me walking over!) and says, "Are you Jodie?"

So, he gives me a line of bullshit, he was lost, didn't see us, blah, blah, blah..." and then totally contradicts himself and says, "I thought that was you. I didn't think there'd be two people...???" So, yeah... when he saw I had someone with me, he got spooked. For what? You figure it out. He coulda' just been uncomfortable, embarassed at what he was doing and having another guy there. Or... He could've had other intentions. I asked him, "So, we gonna' do this or what? You still want these photos done? Time is tickin'.."

He says, yeah, but is concerned with Dick being there. I didn't tell him I brought him for protection... I  bullshitted him and said, "I brought him to be our look-out.  We're in a public park, shooting nude photos... We're gonna' need someone to watch for people, right? You don't want to be arrested for indecent exposure, do ya'?" He agrees and says, "Yeah, that's probably a good idea..."

We have him follow us around to the other side of the park, away from people, cars, etc... in a secluded area.

He's nervous, I'm just wanting to get it done. He wanted to sit and have a smoke for a minute to calm his nerves. By this time it's already 3:30. So, I gave him a few minutes and finally said, "It's after three, I'll shoot for two hours...".

He wants to start the shots by getting a few casual shots in fully clothed and work his way until he gets comfortable. I always try to be as easy going as possible, make my shoots/models as relaxed as I can. But in this case, I think I made him feel just a little bit too comfortable because it wasn't long before he was wripping his clothes off, getting in these sleazy poses and then.... then he says to me, "I'm feeling really cool with this now. You're pretty easy going, I'm diggin' this... Is it all right if I get it hard for some shots?" I was like, "OH SHIT!"...

I was hesitant and pretended I didn't hear him. I kept snapping pictures. Then... what do I see through my lens? The dude is stroking it! Ahhhhhh! YUCK! Gross!!!

I acted in as if I didn't even see it and said, "Lets go over here..." and started walking to a different spot. Anything to get him to stop jerking off in front of me! Gross!

He decides he wants to change into an outfit. It took everything in me not to bust out laughing at this outfit. He pulled out this black g-string, daisy duke shorts and a suede leather vest w/fringe that hung to his knees. OMG! OMG! He said, "I think they'll like this one! This outfit will go good with the setting.." I didn't even bother to ask who "They" were that he was referring to.

After a few shots in his daisy duke/fringe vest outfit, he takes everything off except for the vest. He props himself in front of this tree and wraps his dick with the fringe! Uh.. ok. Gross!

So, I'll save the details of the rest of the shoot. You get the idea. It wasn't long after that that I said it's time to wrap things up (and no, not wrap his dick in fringe! Lol..). He didn't want to stop! I said, "Okay... I think we have enough..." about four times and he kept saying "A few more, a few more..." He was liking it just way too much!

So, the shoot is over. I'm collecting my money and getting his address, so I can mail him the disc. He grabbed my hand to shake it. YUCK! He was touching himself and touched my hand! I stopped at the nearest bathroom and scrubbed my hand!

He asked me before I left, "If I ever need anymore, can we work together again?"... Oh yeah! Sure! NOT! I don't think I'll do any shoots like this again. It was definitely something I won't forget any time soon. And one I don't think I'll repeat. Lol...

It wasn't until I started editing the shots this morning that I realized this dude was not looking at the camera during his 'erect' shots. He was looking at my boobs! Ewwwww!!!

Things I'm noticing in these shots that I didn't see during the shoot are totally grossing me out. And kind of scaring me. The look in his eyes in some of these shots are trippng me out. Wow!

So, yeah... there's some strange ass people out there! Whoa! This dude was definitely out there. Dan thinks I'm out there myself for even doing the shoot. But ah well... Life's an adventure. Lol...

It was crazy... I'm glad Dick was there to protect me! Thank God for Dick! Lol..

No....f'ing.....way.......you HAD to of made that up.....

Jael Miller wrote:

No....f'ing.....way.......you HAD to of made that up.....

Nope. I can have Dick verify it. He was there! Lol...

Rossi Photography wrote:

Nope. I can have Dick verify it. He was there! Lol...

Dick was there?

Oh, that's beautiful!

It's a pun, right?

Image K wrote:
Dick was there?

Oh, that's beautiful!

It's a pun, right?

No, really.. That's his name. Google him, you'll probably find him/his name. Dick Derelict. He's a musician/model. Funny how his name goes with it, eh! Lol....

Image K wrote:
"character-assasination" and "ulterior motives"?

HUH? Those are your words, not mine.

If you are not interested in missing out on a model who insists on escorts, than WHAT's THE PROBLEM?

No, actually they are the type of words uttered by a number of models and their model managers who insist upon having escorts.   You're probably not aware of it because you likely LOVE escorts, but if one doesn't LOVE escorts, then you hear this crap a lot.

Vance wrote:

Hmmm, Yes..Yes..
I see those points..Uh Huh..yes yes..


Escorts..Hell NO..

:-)

Dorothy Stratten had a sluggo/manager/boyfriend/whatever murder her.

Rossi Photography wrote:

Nope. I can have Dick verify it. He was there! Lol...

Ohhhhhh my....oh my....I really don't know what I would have done. I think that I would have taken him to a local disco and dropped him off, along with his leather vest and my Village People CD.

Just THINK of how awesome that story will be over Christmas dinner!! I'm so jealous I might try to use it as my own on my family! (btw lovely images, just looked...)

-Jael-

KM von Seidl wrote:

No, actually they are the type of words uttered by a number of models and their model managers who insist upon having escorts.   You're probably not aware of it because you likely LOVE escorts, but if one doesn't LOVE escorts, then you hear this crap a lot.

But this still doesn't answer my question.

I don't know how I can make myself any clearer.

If you don't mind missing out on models that require escorts, what is the problem?

Image K wrote:

But this still doesn't answer my question.

I don't know how I can make myself any clearer.

If you don't mind missing out on models that require escorts, what is the problem?

The problem isn't about missing out on models.

The problem is in the language employed when people who hold themselves out to not like escorts (people such as myself) are automatically labelled as "suspicious, or wanting to hide something" because we don't allow escorts.   Unchallenged, this creates a culture built on faulty assumptions.

Jael Miller wrote:

Ohhhhhh my....oh my....I really don't know what I would have done. I think that I would have taken him to a local disco and dropped him off, along with his leather vest and my Village People CD.

Just THINK of how awesome that story will be over Christmas dinner!! I'm so jealous I might try to use it as my own on my family! (btw lovely images, just looked...)

-Jael-

It was hilarious! I wrote that blog on myspace and actually had an editor of a local rag mag here in the Detroit area ask if he could publish it. It was so funny! In the blog, I posted one of the pics of the guy in his fringe vest. It made reading it so much better having the actual visual. Lol...

Oh.. and thank you for the compliment on my work. Appreciate that.

Well, it's about 4:30 A.M. here... I'm off to bed. Sweet dreams, all...

Rossi Photography wrote:

It was hilarious! I wrote that blog on myspace and actually had an editor of a local rag mag here in the Detroit area ask if he could publish it. It was so funny! In the blog, I posted one of the pics of the guy in his fringe vest. It made reading it so much better having the actual visual. Lol...

Oh.. and thank you for the compliment on my work. Appreciate that.

Well, it's about 4:30 A.M. here... I'm off to bed. Sweet dreams, all...

NO! You can't leave us like that! You HAVE to show one of the images or give a link!!!!!!! I'm DYING to know!!!!!

-Jael-

Jael Miller wrote:

NO! You can't leave us like that! You HAVE to show one of the images or give a link!!!!!!! I'm DYING to know!!!!!

-Jael-

Can I do that here??? If so, okay... I'll grab one. Lol....

Rossi Photography wrote:

Can I do that here??? If so, okay... I'll grab one. Lol....

YAY!!! Yes do it!!

KM von Seidl wrote:

The problem isn't about missing out on models.

The problem is in the language employed when people who hold themselves out to not like escorts (people such as myself) are automatically labelled as "suspicious, or wanting to hide something" because we don't allow escorts.   Unchallenged, this creates a culture built on faulty assumptions.

I apologize if I have sounded harsh. I really do understand your point. escorts can be annoying. They can stifle creativity, and, in some instances, be invasive.

But let's talk "real world" here for a moment.

Is it reasonable to expect (no matter what your gender is) a young beautiful girl, who has (in most cases) never met you, doesn't know you, to go to a location that she is not readily familiar with, and be comfortable doing a shoot?

I want my model to be comfortable. That is my PRIMARY concern. If she is comfortable, I will get quality shots, and have some fun.

Don't take a request for an escort personally.

I would never blow-up or hijack a plane. But that doesn't stop airport security from making me walk thruogh a detector, taking my shoes off, or patting me down.

Should I be offended at this, or just relax and be happy that everyone is comfortable?

Models have been abused, and in rare instances, raped or killed, by "wackos with cameras" that have taken advantage of a trusting model. This is scary.



If I had a daughter, I would beg her to never do a shoot without an escort.

Rossi Photography wrote:
Hang on a sec... Had to get the disc and now I'm sizing them down. So, what'd I gotta do... upload them into photobucket?

Yeah, you can...then put up a link...that is what I do sometimes....~falling asleep~ My insomnia comes and goes....no broken bones? eh....thought my CPR would come in handy...~shucks~

Marko Cecic-Karuzic wrote:
Ok, I'll say it for the last time today, and I'll hold off saying so again until at least tomorrow.

Models who get scared or uncomfortable easily (like models who are modest) really ought to consider doing something else with themselves. Escort and nudity issues aside, there is really a lot to this whole modelling business/lifestyle to test your mettle, your desire, and your guts.

Be smart. Be assertive. Do your homework. Yada yada yada.

'Night all.

Then just DON'T shoot them!

Problem solved!

Jael Miller wrote:
she fell asleep....or broke a bone after falling out of her chair laughing....I know CPR if that helps....what will we do if she forgot about us???!!!

ooooop I fell asleep ( Just kidding ) MMMM we can search for the escorts name in google and he can borrow her images for awhile and send them to us...


Still dying to see, the fringe is killing me ....

Image K wrote:
I apologize if I have sounded harsh. I really do understand your point. escorts can be annoying. They can stifle creativity, and, in some instances, be invasive.

But let's talk "real world" here for a moment.

Is it reasonable to expect (no matter what your gender is) a young beautiful girl, who has (in most cases) never met you, doesn't know you, to go to a location that she is not readily familiar with, and be comfortable doing a shoot?

I want my model to be comfortable. That is my PRIMARY concern. If she is comfortable, I will get quality shots, and have some fun.

Don't take a request for an escort personally.

I would never blow-up or hijack a plane. But that doesn't stop airport security from making me walk thruogh a detector, taking my shoes off, or patting me down.

Should I be offended at this, or just relax and be happy that everyone is comfortable?

Models have been abused, and in rare instances, raped or killed, by "wackos with cameras" that have taken advantage of a trusting model. This is scary.



If I had a daughter, I would beg her to never do a shoot without an escort.

The real world? You're telling me about the real world? Excuse me, but are you effing kidding me?

You're right. I don't shoot them. It's not a problem for me. It's very rare I shoot anybody here at all. I could live forever and not have my photography or photographic career affected by never shooting an internet-based model at all. I'm only gonna do it if they're amazing, and it's convenient, and will probably be pleasant and fun for all, or else they're paying me very very well for the trouble (which generally doesn't happen on the internet) No problems at all.

The only problem I have is when internet amateurs, often but not always calling themselves managers, sporting portfolios that actually DO make me question their motives sometimes, try to tell models over and over and over again about how they're not safe with those photographers (like me) who don't like extraneous people around when shooting, how that's a red flag. Thus making themselves (and their not-always-totally-pure-motives) look saintly by comparison. One of the typical sluggo tactics is to continually intimidate their model (in this case always a woman) with threats that every other photograher (in this case always a man) wants into their pants, or worse, and that only they can keep them safe and out of trouble.

(Orwell deftly described an analogous situation in Animal Farm: "Jones will come back!"]

The internet populace by-and-large has accepted certain myths as facts, and some people just would not like to see this particular myth become yet another of these.

Lohkee wrote:
I just want to know when Demarcus and E-string are getting married.

I'll shoot the wedding for my usual fee.