PapaVic Photography wrote:
I always like to interject into these threads a fact (which always seems to be totally ignored, because to stir with the paranoia sh*tstick is more fun I guess):

In over 80% of all sexual assaults, the victim knows the prepetrator.

The model is many times more likely to be harmed by her escort she knows than the photographer who's a stranger to her.

Someone has mentioned that yes, but someone else mentioned that your logic doesn't do emotional females any good.  Just wanted to respond so you aren't ignored this time.

e-string wrote:
I like you. You're very rational and fair about the whole thing.

Wouldn't fair and rational involve looking at it on a photographer by photographer basis?

If someone gets robbed, how fair and rational is it for the victim to make a blanket judgement against the rest of the people are robbers? They could rationalize that they need a body guard 24 hours a day because everyone else might be robbers, couldn't they? Is that fair?

Fair would be giving someone the benefit of the doubt. Being rational would be to realize that in a very small precentage of the time something bad does happen.

Paranoid is expecting something bad to happen every time.

Avicdar wrote:
Its interesting that Dmitry holds the copyright on several of the OP's images.  To me that suggests that he is a photographer.

So, for a slightly different angle on this...

Photographers - would you want another photographer to be there watching you work?

To me it suggests one of several things..but first...has anyone read the OP's bio page on OMP?

"...masturbation playing with toys, male hands over my body or with toy that we can talk about"

That suggests to me that there's more here than just modeling and Dimitry is her pimp/bodyguard or a sluggo.

Sorry but after reading that, that's the impression I get.

KM von Seidl wrote:

I leave blame to the religious types.

I believe that not everyone reacts or is behaviourly the same.   I know what I'd like to see in assault cases is for the perpetrator to be punished/stopped from committing further crimes.  Not every situation will result in that, and there are a myriad of reasons why.

At least if someone reaches out for assistance in processing the incident, they are less likely to be amongst the walking wounded.   Legal solutions may or may not be in the best interests of the person assaulted, and weighing that vs. societal interests I like to at least let the victim have some power in assessing.

Blame has nothing to do with religion.  We're talking about morals here.

To give you a real world example: A friend of mine was molested for a good part of her childhood, and other than me and a few close friends.. she hasn't told anyone.  Why?  Because she doesn't want to deal with the drama, the suspicion and all the problems that bringing it up will cause in her family.

Meanwhile.. this asshole is off ruining the lives of other little girls, and he has free reign to do so simply because telling isn't in *her* best interest.  That doesn't seem selfish to you?  To be more concerned with your own comfort than the lives of an untold number of little girls?

So.  You tell me.. who's interests are more important?  The victims, or those of the society at large?

BTW.. if anyone is wondering... she now see's my point and is going to let the people in her/his life/family know about what happened so that they can protect their children.

tgimaging wrote:

Wouldn't fair and rational involve looking at it on a photographer by photographer basis?

If someone gets robbed, how fair and rational is it for the victim to make a blanket judgement against the rest of the people? Couldn't they be robbers also?

Fair would be giving someone the benefit of the doubt. Rational would be to realize that in a very small precentage of the time does something bad happen.

Paranoid is expecting something bad to happen every time.

Fear in many ways isn't rational.  If all you hear about is how all Black men
are robbers or rapists you may start to accept it.  No matter what the truth
may be no matter what the evidence really is.  Its been written that over 50%
of Americans still think Iraq had WMD'S and were involved in 911 even though the
evidence against both are overwhelming.  People believe and feel the way they
do and it quite often takes a lot to change their minds.  What we must continue
to do is respond to these threads so that the out right lies and misstatements
don't become accepted as facts.

Melissa Lynnette wrote:
Someone has mentioned that yes, but someone else mentioned that your logic doesn't do emotional females any good.  Just wanted to respond so you aren't ignored this time.

One thing I have found in my 18 years in business is that MOST professional women I have known are NOT the tyipcal EMOTIONAL beings. In their relationships yes, in business NO.

If you are truly a professional model, leave your emotional shit at home with your boyfriend or SO..it wont serve you well in any business if it goes unchecked..PERIOD
In other words, the more decisions you make based on emotion in business, the more you will find yourself in a state of perpetual stagnation and a cycle of repetitve mistakes.

Was that a sentence? Run on?..Oh well..I'm baked..

Late

PapaVic Photography wrote:
I always like to interject into these threads a fact (which always seems to be totally ignored, because to stir with the paranoia sh*tstick is more fun I guess):

In over 80% of all sexual assaults, the victim knows the prepetrator.

The model is many times more likely to be harmed by her escort she knows than the photographer who's a stranger to her.

Melissa Lynnette wrote:
Someone has mentioned that yes, but someone else mentioned that your logic doesn't do emotional females any good.  Just wanted to respond so you aren't ignored this time.

Thanks luv! 

I guess then the focus shifts to how well suited these emotional females are to a profession/avocation that requires them to work with men who would rather deal with someone rational.

Tony Lawrence wrote:
What we must continue
to do is respond to these threads so that the out right lies and misstatements
don't become accepted as facts.

amen

Doug Lester wrote:
If I'm not mistaken it was an established photographer, well known in the community who murdered Linda Sobek, an agency supplied model,  and left her body in the desert. It was a known photographer who murdered  the model from Canada. I can't recall her name but he even operated a site for model safety.  A photographer who was checked out thoroughly, including rerence checks, Googling his name, review of his extensive on line portfolio, who had a well established studio, but unfortuanately a career predator was using his identity when he forcibly raped an Atlanta model. When arrested immediately after the rape, he had several multiple sets of IDs in his wallet and even more in his car. He's current serving a  long sentence in the Gray Bar Hotel, but that doesn't really help the lady who was raped. It was a known photographer on the net who did a lengthy shoot with a model and while the model was changing in the hotel room bathroom, ran out and left without paying her.  It was an established  photographer who during a shoot, decided to "adjust" a model's pubic hair, so it would look more "perky". Had an escort been present during any or all of the above, more than likely nothing would have happened.

I've been shooting with models for longer than many here have been alive and I've never been threatened, assaulted or robbed. For what it's worth, a sexual assault has no relation to a trffic accident! Give the gals a break, let them have a familiar face around when they work. It can make them more relaxed which can only help the images you produce!

Hmmm, Yes..Yes..
I see those points..Uh Huh..yes yes..


Escorts..Hell NO..

:-)

Rossi Photography wrote:

This isn't the name, but I think you can guess if I say...R2D2.

I have watched him collect models on OMP for some time.  I have talked to models about work and the next thing you know they are "signed" with him and he seems to only "let" them work with one other photographer.  haha
I once started a post asking all models with managers to respond as to how many "jobs" their manager got them.  Small thread.

And now back to the OP's original post.

Vance wrote:

One thing I have found in my 18 years in business is that MOST professional women I have known are NOT the tyipcal EMOTIONAL beings. In their relationships yes, in business NO.

If you are truly a professional model, leave your emotional shit at home with your boyfriend or SO..it wont serve you well in any business if it goes unchecked..PERIOD
In other words, the more decisions you make based on emotion in business, the more you will find yourself in a state of perpetual stagnation and a cycle of repetitve mistakes.

Was that a sentence? Run on?..Oh well..I'm baked..

Late

I'm not a professional model.  In fact, not much professional modeling (at least from what I've read on this site) happens with only two people in the room.  From what I've heard, professional photographers have studios and hairstylists and assistants and clients and whatnot in the room to alleviate any fears a model might have had about being alone in a hotel room with a guy she met on the internet.  I'm just saying.  Photographers on this site like to pull out the professional card when it suits them to bend models to their views.

Vance wrote:

Hmmm, Yes..Yes..
I see those points..Uh Huh..yes yes..


Escorts..Hell NO..

:-)

LMAO.  Models are models because they like being looked at.  I do not.   Like I told one model recently, when I go to my mothers house to do some repairs on it, I don't let her look over my shoulder either.

Melissa Lynnette wrote:

I'm not a professional model.  In fact, not much professional modeling (at least from what I've read on this site) happens with only two people in the room.  From what I've heard, professional photographers have studios and hairstylists and assistants and clients and whatnot in the room to alleviate any fears a model might have had about being alone in a hotel room with a guy she met on the internet.  I'm just saying.  Photographers on this site like to pull out the professional card when it suits them to bend models to their views.

This is one of those posts I have read all the way through.  I have yet to see a photographer here try to bend a model to their views.  The overall response seem to be "that's the way I do it and if you don't like it find another photographer."

Melissa Lynnette wrote:

Someone has mentioned that yes, but someone else mentioned that your logic doesn't do emotional females any good.  Just wanted to respond so you aren't ignored this time.

I can't beleive a female actually said that.  Right on target.

I'm not a professional model.  In fact, not much professional modeling (at least from what I've read on this site) happens with only two people in the room.  From what I've heard, professional photographers have studios and hairstylists and assistants and clients and whatnot in the room to alleviate any fears a model might have had about being alone in a hotel room with a guy she met on the internet.  I'm just saying.  Photographers on this site like to pull out the professional card when it suits them to bend models to their views.

HUH?
Photographers on this site like to pull out the professional card when it suits them to bend models to their views.  What?

I am a professional photgrapher on this site..I havent bent anybody to this day..

professional card?

Me thinks you need a rewrite.. :-)

KM von Seidl wrote:
I usually ask before touching myself.

what if you do if you say no, do you buy yourself some wine and than try to sweet-talk yourself?

oldguysrule wrote:
it is my fucking RIGHT not to have to hear any shit about my choice not to allow escorts (by the way, i may or may not... ive never said).

i agree with the OP. it is her right to ask, my right to deny, and her right to pass on the assignment. why does anyone have an issue with that?

eh... you know what? its not worth it.
i leave this industry to you and get on with my life
with the respect too many of you seem to have for it, yourselves, and each other, it will not be around long anyway.

doug lester... posting facts from the very few instances of danger in the well over billion or so opportunities for mayhem is fear mongering.

shall we post robbery and assault reports made by photographers against the 'escorts' and 'managers' of models? does that enlighted anyone? no just inflames.

DAYUM!

markcomp wrote:

I have watched him collect models on OMP for some time.  I have talked to models about work and the next thing you know they are "signed" with him and he seems to only "let" them work with one other photographer.  haha
I once started a post asking all models with managers to respond as to how many "jobs" their manager got them.  Small thread.

And now back to the OP's original post.

Oh.... I could tell you stories about the 'model collecting' you're referring to and the rant he went off on when I shot one of his models..! Hilarious! I asked him if he's a photographer or a pimp and he got so pissed. I have some stories to tell, but another time. I don't want to hijack the thread.

markcomp wrote:

This is one of those posts I have read all the way through.  I have yet to see a photographer here try to bend a model to their views.  The overall response seem to be "that's the way I do it and if you don't like it find another photographer."

No no no no no!!!  I am talking about the entire site.

tgimaging wrote:
Wouldn't fair and rational involve looking at it on a photographer by photographer basis?

If someone gets robbed, how fair and rational is it for the victim to make a blanket judgement against the rest of the people are robbers? They could rationalize that they need a body guard 24 hours a day because everyone else might be robbers, couldn't they? Is that fair?

Fair would be giving someone the benefit of the doubt. Being rational would be to realize that in a very small precentage of the time something bad does happen.

Paranoid is expecting something bad to happen every time.

So many of these arguments feel like the argument for having unprotected sex. Does it really matter how low the chance is of contracting HIV through vaginal intercourse, if the chance is there than get tested damn it!

Nobody here is saying that it is 100% safe for models to do a one on one session without an escort. 99.99% isn't good enough, I think that needs to be addressed. Since we are looking at more like a 5% chance, that is really not good enough.


"But Baby I swear I'm clean...." is not a good enough argument for me, find a better one.

Star

Melissa Lynnette wrote:

No no no no no!!!  I am talking about the entire site.

HUH? A general statement then?  You lost me.... shoot canceled...LOL




GLURG...

:-)

markcomp wrote:

I can't beleive a female actually said that.  Right on target.

Why can't you believe a female actually said it?  I'm not one of those (warning:stereotype ahead) hairy, angry feminists who insist upon hiding the differences between men and women as a way to bring about equality.  I wanna be a housewife for goodness sake!  I know the truth and I'm not afraid to speak it.  Women think differently than men do.  That's why as a general rule, neither one of us really knows what the other is talking about even though we pretend a lot.

e-string wrote:

What does work, the dentist, grocery shopping, etc. have anything to do with it when it was a photographer who did the sexual assaulting? Nothing. It's not where her fear was created, so she feels no need to bring an escort there.

And irrational? Hardly! I have had TWO inappropriate situations with male photographers. One was only verbal, but one was physical. And the physical one happened to be pretty "big-time" and good at his genre of photography.

I don't bring an escort, but with what has been attempted on my body, I certainly think girls have a right to do so, especially if they've been touched by a photographer in the past and are worried because of that. With what actually happens to us, what kind of person would deny her that? One who tries to rationalize away the fact that it's a real problem, I suppose. Stop being so offended by it, and just be an upstanding person - the kind who isn't part of the problem.

My point exactly...please don't try and tell me that someone you have dated or even been near at a club has never touched you inappropriately(no matter how small or large, actual or accidental that offense may have been) or that someone anywhere has never said something verbally offensive to you.

What do you do?

What does any rational person do?

For one thing they usually don't wrap up all their insecurities and tag them to a particular profession.

I have had lots of women (and men) say and do inappropriate things over the years, including models.  Their jerks, but I feel no overwhelming need to protect myself from those few, nor do I denigrate all others as potential offenders. 

Because it is irrational.

Melissa Lynnette wrote:

Why can't you believe a female actually said it?  I'm not one of those (warning:stereotype ahead) hairy, angry feminists who insist upon hiding the differences between men and women as a way to bring about equality.  I wanna be a housewife for goodness sake!  I know the truth and I'm not afraid to speak it.  Women think differently than men do.  That's why as a general rule, neither one of us really knows what the other is talking about even though we pretend a lot.

That is so refreshing.

Demarcus Freeman wrote:

Blame has nothing to do with religion.  We're talking about morals here.

To give you a real world example: A friend of mine was molested for a good part of her childhood, and other than me and a few close friends.. she hasn't told anyone.  Why?  Because she doesn't want to deal with the drama, the suspicion and all the problems that bringing it up will cause in her family.

Meanwhile.. this asshole is off ruining the lives of other little girls, and he has free reign to do so simply because telling isn't in *her* best interest.  That doesn't seem selfish to you?  To be more concerned with your own comfort than the lives of an untold number of little girls?

So.  You tell me.. who's interests are more important?  The victims, or those of the society at large?

BTW.. if anyone is wondering... she now see's my point and is going to let the people in her/his life/family know about what happened so that they can protect their children.

In my previous life I had a much more rigid view of how the world was supposed to and should work.  I wanted it to work my way.   

The truth is that this world is filled with billions of people, who have an extraordinary range of biological imperatives, real world experiences, cultural values, etc, which boils down to the fact that what you think SHOULD happen won't necessarily happen.

If you were the victim of having something nonconsentually and violently shoved up your rear and you felt powerless, shamed, afraid, then you might not act the same way a person who never experienced your experience or values did.  I think that's an understatement which unfortunately needs to be said.

When I was in law school I worked for several years for a sexual assault center.  It was a constant struggle to balance my views, societies view, legal realities with the psychological and emotional realities of what the victim (particularly if they were a child) was going through.

Again, I wish that people who do bad things to others pay for their ways.   But it's not my place to force someone who has already been legitimately (as opposed to falsely) injured to do something which they aren't willing to do.

Vance wrote:
Late

I'm not a professional model.  In fact, not much professional modeling (at least from what I've read on this site) happens with only two people in the room.  From what I've heard, professional photographers have studios and hairstylists and assistants and clients and whatnot in the room to alleviate any fears a model might have had about being alone in a hotel room with a guy she met on the internet.  I'm just saying.  Photographers on this site like to pull out the professional card when it suits them to bend models to their views.

HUH?
Photographers on this site like to pull out the professional card when it suits them to bend models to their views.  What?

I am a professional photgrapher on this site..I havent bent anybody to this day..

professional card?

Me thinks you need a rewrite.. :-)

Vance.  Then I wasn't addressing you.  I wouldn't bring an escort to a shoot with you anyway.  But I'm still not a professional model.  I would never quit my day job, I know better than that.  And while I do not allow the fears I don't really have to adversely affect the work that I do do, I recognize how others on this site feel.

When I say "professional card" I mean that photographers have previously tried to beat models up for not being professional and then used that as their way to get them to give up escorts.  No, escorts shouldn't be a necessity if you are going to a photo shoot.  But if a model wants to bring one, and she says so on a thread, then instead of screeching at her from all sides about how unprofessional it is, keep in mind that this isn't really professional modeling.  The 5'2" hobbyist who goes to a hotel with a guy who's a bank manager by day isn't on her way to a professional assigment.  She is on her way to meet a guy from the internet.  How did what I meant get so garbled?  I'm not saying this right.

Star wrote:
Nobody here is saying that it is 100% safe for models to do a one on one session without an escort. 99.99% isn't good enough, I think that needs to be addressed. Since we are looking at more like a 5% chance, that is really not good enough.

you pulled 5% outta yer bum. however, lets say its 5% for the sake of argument. the response should be to find as effective a prophylactic as possible. escorts are not. that's a fact. they are far more often a problem for all envolved than protection. further... my remedy for the risk adverse -- after all reasonable research has been done (the most effective prophylactic) -- pass on the job or find a career with no safety threats. (hmmm no such thiing?... what to do?)

edit... more. that 5% number is SO inflamatory as to constitute an attack against the profession. it is, if EVERY reported instance is included more like 1/1000th of 1% (.001). roughtly the same risk as being attacked by a shark while surfing.

Vance wrote:

HUH? A general statement then?  You lost me.... shoot canceled...LOL




GLURG...

:-)

Hey no!!!  I tried again.  Go read it. 

Melissa Lynnette wrote:

No no no no no!!!  I am talking about the entire site.

Oh, okay but I still think that the overall attitute from photographer to models is one of non confrontation.  Unless of course it's politics or religion.

Star wrote:

So many of these arguments feel like the argument for having unprotected sex. Does it really matter how low the chance is of contracting HIV through vaginal intercourse, if the chance is there than get tested damn it!

Nobody here is saying that it is 100% safe for models to do a one on one session without an escort. 99.99% isn't good enough, I think that needs to be addressed. Since we are looking at more like a 5% chance, that is really not good enough.


"But Baby I swear I'm clean...." is not a good enough argument for me, find a better one.

Star

Star BABY, I AM CLEAN..

I can bring the test with me as well...and a camera..:-)

Let's get busy...HARR HAR HAR..

Np, you are correct...and those that feel they need a safety blancket of sorts are free to do so. Just not in my studio or in my productions. I dont judge those that need an escort..well not out loud anyway.. :-)

All I can say is that I work with models on MM and with Models not affiliated with online modeling sites. I only get this argument online.

For me, I want an adventerous soul, one who takes risk in life as I do..AND YES..any situation with peole becomes a risk..Such is life..

I have a set of guidelines under which I work.. Mind you , I laugh everytime I make a deposit after reading these threads...:-)

I am a producer.. I call the shots...ego? NA..just the way I have built my little world..Ok, a little ego..or perhaps a control freak..I really dont care.I only care what Wells Fargo tells me each month.. :-) And so far, I am hearing great things..

I am a professional as well as a hobbyist..Both exist side by side.. MM is a part of my hobby..I would never have these discussions in my professional world..LORD NO!

Did I mention..NO escorts?  :-)

Rabbit86 wrote:

Why is it not good for photography ?? please please tell me..?
For somephotographers yes it may be not good, but why it not good for photography in general  hmm i have no problem with work even tough i am rookie  i in last 3 month did approx 20+ session make good money even by american  measurments, was having a lot of fun doing it and still do so i wouldnt say say escort bad for photography.

I'll reiterate. It's not a good thing. You have your safety to think about. Photographers have their work/reputation to think about. Figure out the best way to deal with it is all I can say.

Melissa Lynnette
When I say "professional card" I mean that photographers have previously tried to beat models up for not being professional and then used that as their way to get them to give up escorts.  No, escorts shouldn't be a necessity if you are going to a photo shoot.  But if a model wants to bring one, and she says so on a thread, then instead of screeching at her from all sides about how unprofessional it is, keep in mind that this isn't really professional modeling.  The 5'2" hobbyist who goes to a hotel with a guy who's a bank manager by day isn't on her way to a professional assigment.  She is on her way to meet a guy from the internet.  How did what I meant get so garbled?  I'm not saying this right.[/quote wrote:

I think you said it right that time.  A wannabe model meets a wannabe professional photographer online and goes to a hotel to shoot. She has concerns.
I am like the bank manager you mention.  I run a business and I am not a pro photographer but I come with a ton of references if they would care to do their homework.

oldguysrule wrote:
you pulled 5% outta yer bum. however, lets say its 5% for the sake of argument. the response should be to find as effective a prophylactic as possible. escorts are not. that's a fact. they are far more often a problem for all envolved than protection. further... my remedy for the risk adverse -- after all reasonable research has been done (the most effective prophylactic) -- pass on the job or find a career with no safety threats. (hmmm no such thiing?... what to do?)

edit... more. that 5% number is SO inflamatory as to constitute an attack against the profession. it is, if EVERY reported instance is included more like 1/1000th of 1% (.001).

took the numbers from someone elses post, as to your number where in your buttucks did you pull that from?

back up your numbers before putting in new ones. I think that 5 bad experiences out of 100 is pretty low a number. If you don't like escorts don't argue about it, just don't employ models who bring them.

Look at that the whole thing is fixed.

But instead people argue and argue and argue over it.

oldguysrule wrote:
roughtly the same risk as being attacked by a shark while surfing.

there were 29 shark attacks on surfers in 2005. By your accounting that means there are only 2500 times that people went surfing in the entire world last year. Now that is what I call sloppy mathmatics.

http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/fish/sharks/st … ummary.htm

Melissa Lynnette wrote:
The 5'2" hobbyist who goes to a hotel with a guy who's a bank manager by day isn't on her way to a professional assigment.  She is on her way to meet a guy from the internet.

and she would do this WHY?
and an escort helps HOW?

sorry kids but this stuff just make my hair stand on end. are you THAT desperate for ego-stroking that you put yourself into situations you know are dangerous? and then bring some guy along as protection? why would you put a friend in harms way? you think some dude is gonna stop me if i intend to do you harm? nope. he'd just meet his end rather rapidly, and the molestation you were going to be subject to would more likely become a very brutal rape/murder/dismemberment/whatever.

THIS is the point. escorts DO NOT make you safe. the DO potentially make you LESS safe. they DO ALWAYS make me less safe. you can check my references. can i check your escorts?

Melissa Lynnette wrote:
The 5'2" hobbyist who goes to a hotel with a guy who's a bank manager by day isn't on her way to a professional assigment.  She is on her way to meet a guy from the internet.

oldguysrule wrote:
and she would do this WHY?
and an escort helps HOW?

sorry kids but this stuff just make my hair stand on end. are you THAT desperate for ego-stroking that you put yourself into situations you know are dangerous? and then bring some guy along as protection? why would you put a friend in harms way? you think some dude is gonna stop me if i intend to do you harm? nope. he'd just meet his end rather rapidly, and the molestation you were going to be subject to would more likely become a very brutal rape/murder/dismemberment/whatever.

THIS is the point. escorts DO NOT make you safe. the DO potentially make you LESS safe. they DO ALWAYS make me less safe. you can check my references. can i check your escorts?

PERFECT!

Any model that insists on bringing an escort should be prepared to supply adequate references for the escort so the photographer can check them out sufficiently to feel comfortable with allowing the escort along on the shoot!

BRILLIANT!

Hat's off to you, fellow Old Guy!

oldguysrule wrote:

and she would do this WHY?
and an escort helps HOW?

sorry kids but this stuff just make my hair stand on end. are you THAT desperate for ego-stroking that you put yourself into situations you know are dangerous? and then bring some guy along as protection? why would you put a friend in harms way? you think some dude is gonna stop me if i intend to do you harm? nope. he'd just meet his end rather rapidly, and the molestation you were going to be subject to would more likely become a very brutal rape/murder/dismemberment/whatever.

THIS is the point. escorts DO NOT make you safe. the DO potentially make you LESS safe. they DO ALWAYS make me less safe. you can check my references. can i check your escorts?

Whoa whoa oldguy!  I'm not a model who brings escorts, I'm just speaking on behalf of those who do. 
If I want my ego stroked, I have a boyfriend for that.  And a gaggle of friends.  I come by my large Leo ego honestly.  However, I didn't say escorts make you safe.  I say escorts comfort some models.  And if I did ever decide to bring him, yes, you could check my escort's references.  Just ask me for the names of photographers he's helped schelp stuff for. 
Not to mention, since you are most likely larger than me, did you bring a weapon as part of your plan to rape me?  Because that's the only way you are going to dispatch of my hypothetical escort before you can get to me.

Another thing.  When you(not you) go meet someone from Match.com or whatever, they tell you to meet in a crowded, well lit place or bring a friend or whatever.  Is that meaningless too?