Steven Barrett wrote:
Maybe you should change your professional name to 'Film Noir'?

good one.

Electra T wrote:
Is it wrong or rude to ask the photog if he's black or white or green?

I have no problem with the model asking if I'm black. I'd probably say yes.

dee740 wrote:
I guess I wasn't aware that being black was "something to tell". This model was using the photog's race as a character assessment, not  really the same as accomodations for an overweight individual. So here are two questions about your situation. a) How was she to know about your chair problem? b) why would I call a job and tell them anything that could be used as a reason  to "overlook" my resume before they even hear me out? What all should we tell people?  Should I be calling jobs after they've seen my resume and disclosing I'm African American? I mean what the hell?!  She saw his work and decided she liked waht she saw, so if she had a problem with his racial makeup maybe she should have disclosed that.She wanted to judge him for some reason  based on race and all he's doing is shooting her, not making babies with her.

I agree, Dee. But reality is reality. What's more shocking to me, and yet really isn't is how many on here are surprised by this. I can give you a few experiences and I can give you others experiences when it comes to this matter.

Lawrence the photographer has addressed this matter often on here but continues to get overlooked until someone actually brings up a actual/recent expeirence.

Me personally, I don't and won't put up with the bullshit. I'll put your ass on the spot and get rid of you, because I'm not trying to get in your pants. I can get that outside of the business. This is business for me.

But like I have suggested in my previous post, just move on to the next. There is always going to be someone out there who will shoot with you and not look at your color.

Sounds like to me that she got caught up in his conversation and feelings came out not knowing who or 'what' was on the other end.

PPRO Analyst wrote:
As a minority photographer, shooting nudes, should I make a point of advising new models that I am Black?

I'm sure you've gotten the gist so far, but: yeah, it's absurd for you to have to do that or even feel that you have to do that in this day and age. The color of your skin shouldn't matter if you're on that side of the camera.

rp_photo wrote:
Photographers should have a "disarming" picture of themselves onliine somewhere that prospective llamas can see.

That way, if there is something about you that creeps them out (such as race), things will go no further.

It's also a good idea because the llama will know it is you when meeting for the first time. Sometimes people assume someone looks a certain way, and are surprised when truth is revealed.

Did anyone ever see an image of a radio personality, only to find out that they looked nothing like you thought?

In my MM profile, one of the photos is of myself. I did it so people would know what I looked like should we not get a chance to meet before we shoot. I also think it's a pretty nice shot. LOL

Strange thing happened to me once, though. I shot with an African-American female, and when she pulled up to the shoot, she said, "I didn't know you were a brother." I was like, do I not shoot like one? LOL

That was a good ice-breaker, and we had a GREAT shoot that day!

Legacys 7 wrote:
I agree, Dee. But reality is reality. What's more shocking to me, and yet really isn't is how many on here are surprised by this. I can give you a few experiencequickshotphotographys and I can give you others experiences when it comes to this matter.

Lawrence the photographer has addressed this matter often on here but continues to get overlooked until someone actually brings up a actual/recent expeirence.

Me personally, I don't and won't put up with the bullshit. I'll put your ass on the spot and get rid of you, because I'm not trying to get in your pants. I can get that outside of the business. This is business for me.

But like I have suggested in my previous post, just move on to the next. There is always going to be someone out there who will shoot with you and not look at your color.

Sounds like to me that she got caught up in his conversation and feelings came out not knowing who or 'what' was on the other end.

EXACTLY... !!  I dont know ANYONE who doesnt know someone who has these feelings.. But i laugh at people who ACT like they are surprised that someone was BOLD enough to say it in mixed company.. NO ONE can claim to be shocked at the feelings, just shocked that she would be vocal about them..

I tell the white people I know NOT to apologize to ME for their actions, but to talk to the people who LOOK LIKE THEM to squash the behavior on their level.. I dont need their sympathy, but when you hear it from someone who looks like you when no one else is around and you say nothing, you CONDONE it.. So dont apologize later..

I respect a outward bigot more than a closet one.. at least I know where the outward ones stands and dont have to worry about them cutting my throat in my sleep..

A good buddy of mine is white, after about a year of knowing each other his mother felt comfy enough to ASK me all the questions she ever had about black people.. He was embarassed and I felt sorry for her.. that after 60+ years of living she never felt comfy enough with anyone of another race to ask the questions she had that would have cleared up alot of the misconceptions she was raised with..

It is as funny and sad as the white people who will sing rap songs LOUD in their cars saying all the Nigga words but if a black person is around they quit rapping and look like they are guilty of something..

Anything you cant do in mixed company, you shouldnt do when you are alone.. life is simple that way..

PPRO Analyst wrote:
Yesterday, I had a model walkout on a scheduled shoot because I “didn’t tell me you’re black!”  This model and had several phone conversations about the planned shoot, her portfolio, my portfolio, etc.  We even talked about family and educational goals.  You know all the normal stuff adults talk about.

The shoot was at my condo in the Lincoln Park section of Chicago, not exactly the hood!
Average home costs around $550,000 so you get the idea of the community.

As a minority photographer, shooting nudes, should I make a point of advising new models that I am Black?

Sorry this happened to you.  But there is no need to advise anyone that you are Black.  Just let it go and move forward.  Even though there is a picture of me in my portfolio, it still happens to me.  But most are kind enough to email me before the shoot and tell me they do not shoot with "N***** photographers."  Unfortunately it will happen again.  Don't let it get you down.

UIPHOTOS wrote:
EXACTLY... !!  I dont know ANYONE who doesnt know someone who has these feelings.. But i laugh at people who ACT like they are surprised that someone was BOLD enough to say it in mixed company.. NO ONE can claim to be shocked at the feelings, just shocked that she would be vocal about them..

I tell the white people I know NOT to apologize to ME for their actions, but to talk to the people who LOOK LIKE THEM to squash the behavior on their level.. I dont need their sympathy, but when you hear it from someone who looks like you when no one else is around and you say nothing, you CONDONE it.. So dont apologize later..

I respect a outward bigot more than a closet one.. at least I know where the outward ones stands and dont have to worry about them cutting my throat in my sleep..

A good buddy of mine is white, after about a year of knowing each other his mother felt comfy enough to ASK me all the questions she ever had about black people.. He was embarassed and I felt sorry for her.. that after 60+ years of living she never felt comfy enough with anyone of another race to ask the questions she had that would have cleared up alot of the misconceptions she was raised with..

It is as funny and sad as the white people who will sing rap songs LOUD in their cars saying all the Nigga words but if a black person is around they quit rapping and look like they are guilty of something..

Anything you cant do in mixed company, you shouldnt do when you are alone.. life is simple that way..

Interesting,

my brother and I experienced a similar situation back in Michigan. There were two white chicks in their Bronco truck rapping LOUD, saying Im a badest gangsta b!tch etc..As soon as my brother and I pulled up to the side of their truck at a traffic light, everything just changed. They just went silent. I guess we just took them out of their comfort zone with our presence.

But to be fair here, another reality too is that their are sistahs who do this to black male photographers too. Yeap, sad but true. Same fears and some think that they are going to get some ghetto pictures and not good quality. lmao. It's called conditioning.


I have a PDN magazine (photo district news) where the company did a report on this matter that is very common in the phtography business that blacks and hispanics expereince.

One example was from a black male fashion photographer. He was told that he should go over to Europe and do fashion photography first and then come back over to the States and shoot fashion. He asked why? The person explained that if he do this, then people will think that he's gay when he photograph white women. Otherwise, they'll feel more comfortable with him because they don't and won't think nor feel uncomfortable being photographed by a gay black male. Wow.


Edit: You made me think about two more recent expereinces. One was about a few months ago. I saw a Puetro Rican resteraunt here in the cali. bay area. It was odd for me to see this because their isn't a large Puetro Rican population here like in the midwest and on the eastcaost. The driver that I was working with at the time stated: we refer to them as 'spics'.

Well, it don't take a rocket scientist to fgure out what he would refer to me or like, if I weren't in his presence. I guess it was ok to say this because I'm not Puetro Rican. Not the first time that I've heard this type of conversation.

The other was yesterday on my job where a guy started cracking Polish jokes on a Polsih guy. Niether I nor the Polish guy found it humrous.

Mike Cummings wrote:

http://echosphere.net/star_trek_insp/st … _insp.html

Everytime I see Mr. Spock now, it reminds me of those two Spock lke charcters on the 'Got Milk' commercial who came millions of lights years to get the 'white tonic' from the almighty Di Ary.

Hadyn Lassiter wrote:
We also should have an image of ourselves on here. Thats a great idea. Not for race reasons but for the fact that people will know who we are. I am afraid I have to pull down one model image and replace it with my own.

Hadyn- Use the "avatar" link under my stuff. It will allow you to upload a separate image for your avatar that doesn't appear in your port.

Todd S.
MM Moderator

Processed Pixels wrote:
Or maybe you should have just said "What?? you mean I'm black, when the hell did that happen?" LOL

to add to that. He should've bucked his eyes open wide and said, AWWW LAWD! Sum body help me.

Legacys 7 wrote:

Interesting,

my brother and I experienced a similar situation back in Michigan. There were two white chicks in their Bronco truck rapping LOUD, saying Im a badest gangsta b!tch etc..As soon as my brother and I pulled up to the side of their truck at a traffic light, everything just changed. They just went silent. I guess we just took them out of their comfort zone with our presence.

But to be fair here, another reality too is that their are sistahs who do this to black male photographers too. Yeap, sad but true. Same fears and some think that they are going to get some ghetto pictures and not good quality. lmao. It's called conditioning.


I have a PDN magazine (photo district news) where the company did a report on this matter that is very common in the phtography business that blacks and hispanics expereince.

One example was from a black male fashion photographer. He was told that he should go over to Europe and do fashion photography first and then come back over to the States and shoot fashion. He asked why? The person explained that if he do this, then people will think that he's gay when he photograph white women. Otherwise, they'll feel more comfortable with him because they don't and won't think nor feel uncomfortable being photographed by a gay black male. Wow.

I had a married woman that asked me to shoot her nude for her anniversary pics tell her husband I was gay so he wouldnt freak out..

and I have had two models tell me later that they told their BF's the same thing..

Funny that I am physically bigger than ALL of their mates, so it made me laugh.. I could care less if anyone thinks I am gay, I wouldnt do anything to convince them otherwise.. I am big enough to take care of any issues that may arise..

but it pissed me off at the same time.. that someone would even feel like that would be necesary to justify being nude in front of me or even just being ALONE with me..

All of those models happen to be white..

The only issues I have had with black models is their fear of the "potential sexual tension".. But that is their own egos talking..

Funny I have had a few tell me they were SURPRISED that nothing happend during their shoot.. like they couldnt believe I didnt try to get my freak on while they were naked in front of me.. Those models became one time shoots.. that mentality isnt something I even want to be associated with..

Paramour Productions wrote:
I would like to say I'm shocked, but having grown up in Chicago (Northwest side at the corner of Central & Belmont) I'm not.

You have to go to the deep south to find more racist attitudes I think.  (yes I know these are generalizations, but they are consistent with my experience).

Try not to let it get to you, your work is great, she's an idiot, end of story.

Face Arts wrote:
Excuse me, but I have to take issue with this statement.  You do NOT have to go to the DEEP SOUTH to find more racist attitudes.  You can find them EVERYWHERE...some are just more OUTWARD about their expression of them, others are frankly ignorant they HAVE RACIST ATTITUDES. 

The most RACIST place I ever lived was in the Northeast - BOSTON.

true. Martin Luther King found this out when he marched in Chicago. He cimpared it to the south.

McKenzie Bros Photo wrote:
Should a Black photographer disclose that fact?

NO.


Should a White photographer disclose that fact?

NO.






What difference does it make?

While I agree with you I was taken to task by a friend who I met online when, after having met for the first time in person, she asked me why I never told her I was in a wheelchair. I looked at her and said I didn't think it mattered, she said it doesn't but she still would have liked to be "given the chance to make up my own mind". I guess this just shows that it DOES matter, no matter how much we'd like to think it doesn't.

James Johnson wrote:

But most are kind enough to email me before the shoot and tell me they do not shoot with "N***** photographers."

I'm so naive. I couldn't imagine someone writing me an email and calling me an n****!! The person that called you a "n**** photographer" can't be working seriously. Hell, they are going to have to adjust or get out of the game. There are blacks, gays, transexuals and women photog's out here.

PPRO Analyst wrote:
As a minority photographer, shooting nudes, should I make a point of advising new models that I am Black?

I am not black... rather my heritage comes from India. However, I think the best quote is from Malcolm X... I might have gotten it wrong but it is something like this... "Never ask for what you deserve, make yourself so valuable that you can demand it!"

You are well on your way to be able to demand it already. In terms of economics, there are a ton at the bottom, a many in the middle and only a few at the top. It becomes her loss to lose the opportunity to work with one of the great ones.

If anyone makes an issue of who you are tell them... "Your loss" and then never look back.

dee740 wrote:
I'm so naive. I couldn't imagine someone writing me an email and calling me an n****!! The person that called you a "n**** photographer" can't be working seriously. Hell, they are going to have to adjust or get out of the game. There are blacks, gays, transexuals and women photog's out here.

there is a THIN line between being naive and fooling yourself into being clueless.. many people do the latter..

Isnt Nigga mainstream now, since 70% of rap music is purchased by non blacks..? and most rap has it sprinkled in like pepper on a salad..?? but that is another conversation..

If black folks make up 12% of the ENTIRE population of the U.S., that means 88% are NOT black so why would you think she wouldnt find 88% more people to shoot with who arent black..

lets be real here.. all this hand holding and hugging is making me sick to my stomach.. real life isnt a photo shoot.. so for someone to want to shoot with you they have to bring their REAL LIFE to you as well.. and this is what that looks like..

It is nice to hold hands and sing songs but the REAL world is like this.. if I am white and choose to NEVER speak to or associate with anyone how isnt white I have 6 out of 10 people to choose from.. so that odds are GREAT that I will never have to if I CHOOSE not to..

She has made her choice..  and if the numbers hold true and 12% of the poplulation of photographer are minority, she has 88% of the photographers to choose from..

kinda simple..