Marc Pitman wrote:
I doesn't make a difference and shouldn't. You're a photographer who is black. Not a black photographer, right? I'm pink. Does that make be a better or worse photographer? Nope.
Good luck
Peace

PINK or PEACH..?? Pink would be a little scary.. Peach not so much.. LOL

dale99 wrote:
How sad.  It would really bother me if I had to put:  "Warning, photographer is a pudgy old white dude" on my email signature and business cards.  I vote we both keep our appearance a secret.

Although I fit the description of "pudgy old white dude", I don't plan on keeping it a secret. I have a picture of myself in my MM portfolio.

I've shot models that were black, white, red, yellow, and some that have rainbow stickers on the back of their cars.

I would say that it is the models loss, not yours.

UIPHOTOS wrote:

there is a THIN line between being naive and fooling yourself into being clueless.. many people do the latter..

Isnt Nigga mainstream now, since 70% of rap music is purchased by non blacks..? and most rap has it sprinkled in like pepper on a salad..?? but that is another conversation..

If black folks make up 12% of the ENTIRE population of the U.S., that means 88% are NOT black so why would you think she wouldnt find 88% more people to shoot with who arent black..

lets be real here.. all this hand holding and hugging is making me sick to my stomach.. real life isnt a photo shoot.. so for someone to want to shoot with you they have to bring their REAL LIFE to you as well.. and this is what that looks like..

It is nice to hold hands and sing songs but the REAL world is like this.. if I am white and choose to NEVER speak to or associate with anyone how isnt white I have 6 out of 10 people to choose from.. so that odds are GREAT that I will never have to if I CHOOSE not to..

She has made her choice..  and if the numbers hold true and 12% of the poplulation of photographer are minority, she has 88% of the photographers to choose from..

kinda simple..

Based on your scenario I'm not sure what the poulation of photographers and their racial makups are, so let's not apply those numbers. The stats you provided have nothing to do with what state or city a person lives in or the demographics for that area. You just made some blanket statements. I'm from Detroit, if I were white and lived in Detroit, I'd be possibly walking into situations all day saying "I didn't know you were black!" and storming out (if I were the  OP's model). My problem is not necessarily with making choices to shoot exclusively with white photog's, but more so putting herself and the photog in a embarassing situation. Depending on how popular or well connected the photog she could've killed herself in the local industry. If she has issues with people's race, she should investigate ahead of time. And  then go see someone about why she has those issues. All her little hangups can get her stuck at home not working.

PPRO Analyst wrote:

So far only three votes, let everyone you know on MM know about this vote!

Don

I think it should go to some charity about racism awareness or something. Or antiracism charity.
A lot of you have said this girl is not a model and there's no room for her in the industry. You are all entitled to your opinions about this, and about whether she desrves to live and whatnot. I feel that her racism should no more be a factor in her career than her race itself. All industries have racism in them, and though we don't like it, it's not going away anytime soon. Her racism will limit the people she is able to work with and that will likely hurt her anyways, but I really don't think it makes her less of a model. Less accepting, less of a good person, less of someone we would like to work with or be friends with, less intelligent maybe even, but no where does it say models have to be intelligent or accepting, though in this day and age, many people in many different professions are, there's still the very active clan going on, and inherent racism on every corner. It's not good, I don't like it, but it is there.
I'm a very accepting person, I accept people of different races, different sexual preference, and different racial preference, racism is a HUGE character flaw, but there's still a lot more to her person than just that.
I would like to contact her, or hope that she's reading this, and I repeat if the race of who you're working with is an issue for YOU, than YOU are responsible to ask that, for most people it is not an issue and is not the photographer's responsibility to awkwardly say, by the way I'm black, irish, chinese, indian, gay, a parent, obese, does that affect you wanting to work with me?

DigitalSwede wrote:
Not anymore than a jewish or gay photographer should have to tell a model  ( just examples). If someone thinks race is such a big issue when it comes to working with them best to find someone else.  Racism is all over.  I'd personally like it that one day artist are judged on their work not where they were born or what religion they are or what color their skin is...

I definatly agree!If a model is limiting themselves because a photographer is a certain race then she needs to aspire another occupation!!!!!!!!!As long as they are professional and have beautiful work who should care about anything else!

Mike Cummings wrote:
If you are still taking votes on what to do with the money, my suggestion is to cash the check, take that $200 or even break it down into $50s and bless some random stranger with it. Give it to someone for being polite. Hand it to someone that holds the door for you, says please or thank you. Take the money from the rude and give it to the nice.

Must be nice not to know what to do with extra money!

So Says Amara. wrote:
you should have shot back, 'you didn't tell me you were a bigot!' and thrown her ignorant ass right in the street.

I agree!

rp_photo wrote:
Photographers should have a "disarming" picture of themselves onliine somewhere that prospective models can see.

That way, if there is something about you that creeps them out (such as race), things will go no further.

It's also a good idea because the model will know it is you when meeting for the first time. Sometimes people assume someone looks a certain way, and are surprised when truth is revealed.

Did anyone ever see an image of a radio personality, only to find out that they looked nothing like you thought?

I'm sure that this discussion has taken a turn away from what I'm addressing, but... whatever.



Wow.  Well, I was planning on reading through the 250-something posts and keeping my comments to myself until I read this...

I think this is exactly the reason NOT to put up a photo.  "Disarming" or otherwise.  Why alter what you do to cater to the small-minded views of others? 

Radio personalities, ironically, are hired for their... waitforitwaitforitwaitforit... radio personalities.  I know it sounds ridiculous but it's true.  And sure, I've seen a number of radio djs that looked nothing like what I expected.  But what they looked like had no effect on whether or not I listened to them.  And I certainly don't feel like they should have photos of themselves up to that I can select who I listen to based on appearance.

And the "So the model can know what you look like when you meet" is far over-rated.  That saves what, all of 15 seconds of waiting or confusion perhaps?  If the photographer is there early or at least in contact via cell phone, he or she can provide the model with a fitting enough description.

PPRO Analyst wrote:
Yesterday, I had a model walkout on a scheduled shoot because I “didn’t tell me you’re black!”  This model and had several phone conversations about the planned shoot, her portfolio, my portfolio, etc.  We even talked about family and educational goals.  You know all the normal stuff adults talk about.

The shoot was at my condo in the Lincoln Park section of Chicago, not exactly the hood!
Average home costs around $550,000 so you get the idea of the community.

As a minority photographer, shooting nudes, should I make a point of advising new models that I am Black?

pretty easy really, if it matters so much to her, she shouldve asked beforehand! i think u should be happy she walked out, why would u wanna spend more than 20 seconds with a fuck like that anyway?

e-string wrote:
What the HELL?! I can't believe people are THAT openly racist anymore. Wow.

Please Believe It. Racism isnt dead...nor will it die. What shocks me more is that people act like racism isnt around anymore, or it doesnt happen anymore like its a thing of the past. Its alive and well people!


But that is so insulting...God Bless her Soul.

Peter Dattolo wrote:
Everybody seems quick to say she is wrong and a racist.

Does everybody know her past and why she made the comment?
Does everybody know the context of how it was said to him?

Not everybody has a good life, she may have had something happen to her at some point in her life that she is not comfortable with. Maybe it was a black man, or maybe it was a bad experience in a bad part of town and it scared her.

It could be the content of the shoot mixed with the neighborhood and the fact that he is black, mixed with feeling uncomfortble is the reason also.
One thing a model should always do is if she/he feels uncomfortable, DO NOT do the shoot.... it is preached on this site day after day, and now your all bad mouthing this model for following thru with it.

EDIT: The above is not directed at you PPRO. What the model said was wrong but maybe the situation to her was really scary? Did you ask her for a reason as to why it was a problem?
You being black should not be an issue, but some models you may hire/TFP with may have an issue with it, that is not something you can change.

z

Oh so if people have one bad expirience that means that all people are bad? Its still closed minded. Its like if a certain country bombed another country and then that country hates everyone one pro and anti-war in the certain country... oh wait.

Tony Lawrence wrote:
I've followed this thread for a few days.  Its been interesting.  Most of you have
said how uncool she was and racist well here's something to consider.  I
have a friend who works at a well known agency.  She told me that they tend
not to want to send their models to Black photographers.  In fact they have no
Black photographers on their rounds list.  See we can all sit around and sing,
We are the world but that sad truth is MM isn't the world.  Its full of artists and
educated people as well as some very nice people and a few bigots.  There is
also another sad undercurrent here that many people want to avoid.  Many of
the Black models aren't too keen on working with Black photographers and I'm
not talking about me.  I'm not trying to make this some sort of sad grab for
sympathy.  I know of several Black models right on MM who not only have not
worked with any Black photographers they have no desire to ever shoot with one.
I know one for example that has expressed her disgust with Black men in general
and her love of the talent of White photographers.  There have been several threads where Black men have been bashed in general and its been all good.
There was a thread about, Why are Black models always late and it was locked
and removed quickly.  Look I'm not saying Black models in general are biased
against Black photographers or models in general are but before we think how
some continue to think like the Klan how many have those same feelings but
hide them.

amen.

Tara Jane wrote:
I think it should go to some charity about racism awareness or something. Or antiracism charity.
A lot of you have said this girl is not a model and there's no room for her in the industry. You are all entitled to your opinions about this, and about whether she desrves to live and whatnot. I feel that her racism should no more be a factor in her career than her race itself. All industries have racism in them, and though we don't like it, it's not going away anytime soon. Her racism will limit the people she is able to work with and that will likely hurt her anyways, but I really don't think it makes her less of a model. Less accepting, less of a good person, less of someone we would like to work with or be friends with, less intelligent maybe even, but no where does it say models have to be intelligent or accepting, though in this day and age, many people in many different professions are, there's still the very active clan going on, and inherent racism on every corner. It's not good, I don't like it, but it is there.
I'm a very accepting person, I accept people of different races, different sexual preference, and different racial preference, racism is a HUGE character flaw, but there's still a lot more to her person than just that.
I would like to contact her, or hope that she's reading this, and I repeat if the race of who you're working with is an issue for YOU, than YOU are responsible to ask that, for most people it is not an issue and is not the photographer's responsibility to awkwardly say, by the way I'm black, irish, chinese, indian, gay, a parent, obese, does that affect you wanting to work with me?

Tara? You need to quit and you most definetly need a wakeup calll.

Let's get real here. You are sitting here having sympathy for a woman who spoke her true feelings. This is something that is more than likely a common thing with her and more than likely will do the same to you.

you don't sit back and excuse this type neither. Why kiss ass for another and criticize others for calling it what is. Especially the black photographer. I feel bad for him more because he is like alot of ethnic men and women out here. Feeling that he has to go to extremes just to proove to some stupid bitch that it's ok to shoot with him because I live in a 500,000 house in a all white suburb etc ect.


Tara, that shit doesn't always work. Sometime you have to put people in check and other times you have to ignore them. I'd suggest that he just move on, don't hide from fear that his career will go down because of his color. He is not alone.

I have had similar experiences with both black and white models. But I tell you what, I nipped that shit in the bud and got my respect. Finish.

PPRO Analyst wrote:
Yesterday, I had a model walkout on a scheduled shoot because I “didn’t tell me you’re black!”  This model and had several phone conversations about the planned shoot, her portfolio, my portfolio, etc.  We even talked about family and educational goals.  You know all the normal stuff adults talk about.

The shoot was at my condo in the Lincoln Park section of Chicago, not exactly the hood!
Average home costs around $550,000 so you get the idea of the community.

As a minority photographer, shooting nudes, should I make a point of advising new models that I am Black?

I think the model is well within her rights and you white boys better stop photographing those nude black girls or I will have to look in the props bin and find a white pointy hat and a burning cross and come over there...

Iain Daddy wrote:

I think the model is well within her rights and you white boys better stop photographing those nude black girls or I will have to look in the props bin and find a white pointy hat and a burning cross and come over there...

We understand your black humor !

PPRO Analyst wrote:
Yesterday, I had a model walkout on a scheduled shoot because I “didn’t tell me you’re black!”  This model and had several phone conversations about the planned shoot, her portfolio, my portfolio, etc.  We even talked about family and educational goals.  You know all the normal stuff adults talk about.

The shoot was at my condo in the Lincoln Park section of Chicago, not exactly the hood!
Average home costs around $550,000 so you get the idea of the community.

As a minority photographer, shooting nudes, should I make a point of advising new models that I am Black?

Should a white photographer be like "oh by the way, I'm white."
to hell with that bitch.

PPRO Analyst wrote:
Yesterday, I had a model walkout on a scheduled shoot because I “didn’t tell me you’re black!”  This model and had several phone conversations about the planned shoot, her portfolio, my portfolio, etc.  We even talked about family and educational goals.  You know all the normal stuff adults talk about.

The shoot was at my condo in the Lincoln Park section of Chicago, not exactly the hood!
Average home costs around $550,000 so you get the idea of the community.

As a minority photographer, shooting nudes, should I make a point of advising new models that I am Black?

AND she is not a lady.  Just wanted to throw that in there.

dee740 wrote:
Based on your scenario I'm not sure what the poulation of photographers and their racial makups are, so let's not apply those numbers. The stats you provided have nothing to do with what state or city a person lives in or the demographics for that area. You just made some blanket statements. I'm from Detroit, if I were white and lived in Detroit, I'd be possibly walking into situations all day saying "I didn't know you were black!" and storming out (if I were the  OP's model). My problem is not necessarily with making choices to shoot exclusively with white photog's, but more so putting herself and the photog in a embarassing situation. Depending on how popular or well connected the photog she could've killed herself in the local industry. If she has issues with people's race, she should investigate ahead of time. And  then go see someone about why she has those issues. All her little hangups can get her stuck at home not working.

Blanket.. LMAO  Ok.. fine.. make the numbers fit anyway that helps to make your point about Detroit.. BUT 8 out of 10 people in the united states are NOT BLACK.. so she has more of a chance to NOT deal with anyone black.. 8 out of 10 times..

Dayton is 55% minority and there are little suburbs that have NO minorities and their children NEVER have to interact with any.. Detroit is NO DIFFERENT.. I have family there..

Walking past someone on the street or in the mall is NOT interacting with them.. Just as the girl said to me last week that after 23 years I was the FIRST colored man she ever had a conversation with.. FIRST.. and she said COLORED..

I know local photogs here that are relatively successful.. meaning they ONLY do photography for a living.. But though some of their work is stellar, they NEVER get the jobs that the white photogs get.. 

As others have pointed out, this is life.. People need to be MORE honest and these hand holding apologetic sessions wouldnt be necessary..

She will find otherS who feel like her to work with, no problem..

UIPHOTOS wrote:

Blanket.. LMAO  Ok.. fine.. make the numbers fit anyway that helps to make your point about Detroit.. BUT 8 out of 10 people in the united states are NOT BLACK.. so she has more of a chance to NOT deal with anyone black.. 8 out of 10 times..

Dayton is 55% minority and there are little suburbs that have NO minorities and their children NEVER have to interact with any.. Detroit is NO DIFFERENT.. I have family there..

Walking past someone on the street or in the mall is NOT interacting with them.. Just as the girl said to me last week that after 23 years I was the FIRST colored man she ever had a conversation with.. FIRST.. and she said COLORED..

I know local photogs here that are relatively successful.. meaning they ONLY do photography for a living.. But though some of their work is stellar, they NEVER get the jobs that the white photogs get.. 

As others have pointed out, this is life.. People need to be MORE honest and these hand holding apologetic sessions wouldnt be necessary..

She will find otherS who feel like her to work with, no problem..

Agree. I am from the Detriot area and Dee should know better. Detroit is so segregated that it's sick. Blacks living in a now abandoned city because of the 30's and 60's riots. Whites moving into the suburbs because they refused to school or live next door to blacks. Dee knows what I'm talking about. It's still a talked about and controversial issue back there.

I wished that MM member A.Fox was on here, she knows what I'm talking about she lives in the city.

But like you said, she can avoid black men and work with white photographers. Even in Detroit she can do the samething. All that she has to do is go into the suburbs to get what she wants. Bloomfield, Troy, Warren and other suburbs outside of Detroit.