Face Arts wrote:
Excuse me, but I have to take issue with this statement.  You do NOT have to go to the DEEP SOUTH to find more racist attitudes.  You can find them EVERYWHERE...some are just more OUTWARD about their expression of them, others are frankly ignorant they HAVE RACIST ATTITUDES. 

The most RACIST place I ever lived was in the Northeast - BOSTON.

You never lived in Detroit - what a mess.

Cspine wrote:
I diddn't read though every page but here's my take.

Some people are uncomfortable around or are afraid of black people. There may be an innocent reason or she might be in the kkk but either way, she had every right to leave for any reason. Let's assume that she was afraid of you. Should she be alone with you in fear just to spare your feelings? Perhapse she has a racist family that would think badly of her for shooting with you. Is it worth the drama? As long as she doesn't burn a cross in your front yard or make you sit in the back of the bus just write it off as personal preference and move on.

First point there was a female helper there for the shoot, so she was not alone! Second, if she is a "professional" for providing a service she is responsible for providing that service under any resonable condition.  We had serveral phone calls discussing the shoot family, etc; more than enough time for her to express any issues she had.

Would she had the same issues if my helper had been a black male and I was a white photographer?  Personal preference and racism are two different things!

UIPHOTOS wrote:
Blanket.. LMAO  Ok.. fine.. make the numbers fit anyway that helps to make your point about Detroit.. BUT 8 out of 10 people in the united states are NOT BLACK.. so she has more of a chance to NOT deal with anyone black.. 8 out of 10 times..

Dayton is 55% minority and there are little suburbs that have NO minorities and their children NEVER have to interact with any.. Detroit is NO DIFFERENT.. I have family there..

Walking past someone on the street or in the mall is NOT interacting with them.. Just as the girl said to me last week that after 23 years I was the FIRST colored man she ever had a conversation with.. FIRST.. and she said COLORED..

I know local photogs here that are relatively successful.. meaning they ONLY do photography for a living.. But though some of their work is stellar, they NEVER get the jobs that the white photogs get.. 

As others have pointed out, this is life.. People need to be MORE honest and these hand holding apologetic sessions wouldnt be necessary..

She will find otherS who feel like her to work with, no problem..

I'm not going to keep going back and forth. She can shoot with whoever she wants to. I really don't know what your point in all those statistics. What does any of that matter? Dayton  is 55% minority, Detroit is damn near 90%. what's the difference?  double. We all have little examples, but I for one am  not "hand holding and singing". I just think the model should stop wasting time. She could've found something else to do with her time and so could the photog.
This is  a forum, a place where people express themselves. If you don't want to hear what others have to say of need to insult it by minimizing it, why even join the conversation?

PPRO Analyst wrote:
Last night I received an interesting PM from a MM model explaining her "fear" of shooting with black photographers. 

For her communication was a big concern, my response was "That as long as you are never disrespectful, you can say anything you want."

I hope she'll understand that we all will change by just being together.

Ok. what was the fear? did she think you were going to steal her handbag?

dee740 wrote:

I'm not going to keep going back and forth. She can shoot with whoever she wants to. I really don't know what your point in all those statistics. What does any of that matter? Dayton  is 55% minority, Detroit is damn near 90%. what's the difference?  double. We all have little examples, but I for one am  not "hand holding and singing". I just think the model should stop wasting time. She could've found something else to do with her time and so could the photog.
This is  a forum, a place where people express themselves. If you don't want to hear what others have to say of need to insult it by minimizing it, why even join the conversation?

Dee? The only person that seem to be having a problem with this is you. He just doesn't agree with you, that's all.

I disagree with your bad example too. Let me come into the picture here. From one Detroitor to another, you know damn well that this white woman if she lived in the area isn't going to shoot in Detroit already knowing that it's a 90% black city. She can always escape to the suburbs like many of the whites from Detriot did just to get away from the blacks. And you know this too. Detroit is 90% black because of the same point that the photographer is expressing. She can get around things.

The only thing that I agree with you on is her not having any luck. People who act like this eventually will have bad things happen to them.

Electra T wrote:
Is it wrong or rude to ask the photog if he's black or white or green?

no it's not wrong or rude.  It's okay to know the gender and ethnicity of the photographer ahead of time.

I always know what my models look like before I shoot with them.  It's okay for them to know as much about me as possible.

dee740 wrote:

Ok. what was the fear? did she think you were going to steal her handbag?

I'm curious too, because unless she knows this model, the MM model really can't explain nor justify the stupidity. It's as if they are watching a old Darkie movie where the black man comes out of the alley and says BOO!

Like I said, every black man isn't trying trying to !uck her and there are many black men who aren't even sexual interested in white women. Some people need to get their sexual 'closet' fantasies.

Foolio7714 wrote:
My profile has stated that I'm an African-American photographer for several months now.  I've had 2 models cancel once they found out I was black, so now everyone knows up front.  I'm past the point of being of naive about race so I don't have a problem with putting "I'm Black" on my profile.

Screw that.  I understand why you do it, but they have the complex, not you, so stop acting like it.

Michael Thayer wrote:

no it's not wrong or rude.  It's okay to know the gender and ethnicity of the photographer ahead of time.

I always know what my models look like before I shoot with them.  It's okay for them to know as much about me as possible.

I'm curious why you think this.  A camera doesn't care who holds it and what
possible difference would it make if a photographer is Black, White or
purple.  Sure a photographer needs to know what a model looks like but
our concern is usually more about is she fine or does she have a good figure.
Photographers aren't models (usually)  Me, I'd be offended if someone asked me
what color I was.  Why is it important?  The real deal is and lets not tip toe
around this issue, is many White models don't want to shoot with Black men.
Lets not pretend its not true.  Lets not make excuses.  Many White women
are afraid of Black men.  As I pointed out in another post some agencies tend
not to want to send their models to Black photographers.  However my basic
point is the only important thing is what does the photographers work look like?
If payment is offered how much and for what.  Someones color, faith and
politics aren't or should not be important.

Cspine wrote:
I diddn't read though every page but here's my take.

Some people are uncomfortable around or are afraid of black people. There may be an innocent reason or she might be in the kkk but either way, she had every right to leave for any reason. Let's assume that she was afraid of you. Should she be alone with you in fear just to spare your feelings? Perhapse she has a racist family that would think badly of her for shooting with you. Is it worth the drama? As long as she doesn't burn a cross in your front yard or make you sit in the back of the bus just write it off as personal preference and move on.

Actually, you're right but you're missing the point.

I'm sure the OP doesn't care about the reason. He's just illustrating it's almost clandestine existence.

If the model, as you pointed out, is afraid of black people for some 'innocent reason' (LOL), then it's up to her to determine her associations more closely not him.

Also, it seems to me that the OP did write it off and is not so affected by it. He merely wants to have some discussion on the topic which you can see is a very interesting discourse suggested by the number of pages this thread generated.

PPRO Analyst wrote:
Yesterday, I had a model walkout on a scheduled shoot because I “didn’t tell me you’re black!”  This model and had several phone conversations about the planned shoot, her portfolio, my portfolio, etc.  We even talked about family and educational goals.  You know all the normal stuff adults talk about.

The shoot was at my condo in the Lincoln Park section of Chicago, not exactly the hood!
Average home costs around $550,000 so you get the idea of the community.

As a minority photographer, shooting nudes, should I make a point of advising new models that I am Black?

This post further affirms my suspicion that the three separate models on three separate occasions who asked me my race all of sudden lost contact with me after agreeing to shoot.

If they ask, I will continue to let them know. If they feel that way, I'm the one who really doesn't to deal with them.

PPRO Analyst wrote:
Yesterday, I had a model walkout on a scheduled shoot because I “didn’t tell me you’re black!”  This model and had several phone conversations about the planned shoot, her portfolio, my portfolio, etc.  We even talked about family and educational goals.  You know all the normal stuff adults talk about.

The shoot was at my condo in the Lincoln Park section of Chicago, not exactly the hood!
Average home costs around $550,000 so you get the idea of the community.

As a minority photographer, shooting nudes, should I make a point of advising new models that I am Black?

I read this and almost puked in my mouth.

It's really a shame that such idiocy and close-mindedness still exist.

I think I would have followed suit with some of the other comments and thrown her out on her ass.

faithb wrote:

Screw that.  I understand why you do it, but they have the complex, not you, so stop acting like it.

I don't think it's a matter of a complex. It's a matter of him not wasting his time booking shoots that could be resevered for something else.

Legacys 7 wrote:
Dee? The only person that seem to be having a problem with this is you. He just doesn't agree with you, that's all.

I disagree with your bad example too. Let me come into the picture here. From one Detroitor to another, you know damn well that this white woman if she lived in the area isn't going to shoot in Detroit already knowing that it's a 90% black city. She can always escape to the suburbs like many of the whites from Detriot did just to get away from the blacks. And you know this too. Detroit is 90% black because of the same point that the photographer is expressing. She can get around things.

The only thing that I agree with you on is her not having any luck. People who act like this eventually will have bad things happen to them.

ok. continue to disagree.problem solved.

Cspine wrote:
I diddn't read though every page but here's my take.

Some people are uncomfortable around or are afraid of black people. There may be an innocent reason or she might be in the kkk but either way, she had every right to leave for any reason. Let's assume that she was afraid of you. Should she be alone with you in fear just to spare your feelings? Perhapse she has a racist family that would think badly of her for shooting with you. Is it worth the drama? As long as she doesn't burn a cross in your front yard or make you sit in the back of the bus just write it off as personal preference and move on.

Whatever... Of course she has every right to leave for whatever reason but that is absolutely the worst reason. No matter what, he did nothing wrong and he was treated like a piece of dirt. I think that that model is obviously screwed up in the head. I don't care what her history is... she needs to be smart enough to move on. And it's her drama that she placed on him. Everything was fine until she flipped out for no reason. I just think she sounds ignorant. I'm sorry you had to experience that.

So Says Amara. wrote:
you should have shot back, 'you didn't tell me you were a bigot!' and thrown her ignorant ass right in the street.

agreed.. I'm really amazed by the ignorance of people...

Ceehawk Multimedia wrote:
You really shouldn't have to but we live in the real world and bigotry always seems to raise it's ugly head when you least expect it. I don't tell a model my race unless she ask and if she ask i have no problem telling her becasue if it matters to her what race I am then she is not the type of person i want to work with. 

I put a portrait of my 9 month old son on my MM page this morning because I love the picture, he's a handsome little fella and I'm proud of my boy but at the back of my mind i was also thinking, "well this will let any model interested in working with me, know that i'm black and if she has a problem with that it will save both of us a little wasted time.  she can go on pretending she's not really a bigot and I won't have to deal with her silliness in my world.

Chris

eeeep! your son is ADORABLE!

Michael Thayer wrote:

no it's not wrong or rude.  It's okay to know the gender and ethnicity of the photographer ahead of time.

I always know what my models look like before I shoot with them.  It's okay for them to know as much about me as possible.

So her walking out because of his ethnicity must not be wrong or rude either . . . ?????  Seriously, how do you justify that?  If he posed absolutely no threat, how is her reaction justifiable?  If knowing his ethnic background was THAT imperative, then she should have been just as compelled to ask of his ethnicity during one of their several phone conversations, BEFORE meeting for the shoot.

PPRO Analyst wrote:
Yesterday, I had a model walkout on a scheduled shoot because I “didn’t tell me you’re black!”

What annoys me the most is that there are some white conservatives (I know such a republican personally), who are boasting that racism is not an issue, "acknowledging" that "in some areas... maybe...", yet, it constantly happens, and that is sad!

PPRO Analyst wrote:
As a minority photographer, shooting nudes, should I make a point of advising new models that I am Black?

Absolutely not!

Cspine wrote:
I diddn't read though every page but here's my take.

Some people are uncomfortable around or are afraid of black people. There may be an innocent reason or she might be in the kkk but either way, she had every right to leave for any reason. Let's assume that she was afraid of you. Should she be alone with you in fear just to spare your feelings? Perhapse she has a racist family that would think badly of her for shooting with you. Is it worth the drama? As long as she doesn't burn a cross in your front yard or make you sit in the back of the bus just write it off as personal preference and move on.

The way you casually say that "some people are uncomfortable around or are afraid of black people" makes it seem like you denote Blacks as people to automatically be feared.  Sweetheart, we're not monstrous people; I know the media likes to only depict us that way, and it's unfortunate fear (alongside sex) sells in this world (hence the depictions of today's hip hop stars; man, the power of the $).  But we are a far more advanced people.  Yes we have our share of negative individuals you just may fear, but doesn't every race have a cell of such individuals?

You say there may be an innocent reason . . . I sure would like to know how innocence can be confused with ignorance.  If she were in the kkk, why would she be in an multiracial profession, such as modeling?  Let's be careful not to casually speak of that heinous organization like it's as prestigious as the government and a good enough excuse to be ignorant.  With the assumption of her being afraid of him, what was the reason for the numerous phone conversations before the actual face-to-face meet?  If I were afraid I wouldn't have talked to a photographer after the first or second time; eventually something said over the phone will turn on a lightbulb, for freakazoids give themselves away more sooner than later.  If her family is that racist, then she might as well be considered an adolescent.  Yes family is a major influence, but on racism???  Homegirl has a lot of growing and maturing to do to live in this world.

I wonder if this girl would turn away a Black doctor on her sickbed. . .

PPRO Analyst wrote:
Yesterday, I had a model walkout on a scheduled shoot because I “didn’t tell me you’re black!”  This model and had several phone conversations about the planned shoot, her portfolio, my portfolio, etc.  We even talked about family and educational goals.  You know all the normal stuff adults talk about.

The shoot was at my condo in the Lincoln Park section of Chicago, not exactly the hood!
Average home costs around $550,000 so you get the idea of the community.

As a minority photographer, shooting nudes, should I make a point of advising new models that I am Black?

Wow, I am sorry that happened.  She's obviously a very skewed individual.

Lelah G wrote:
I wonder if this girl would turn away a Black doctor on her sickbed. . .

you can bet she won't. and if she does then she crazy. let her bleed to death.

00siris wrote:

This post further affirms my suspicion that the three separate models on three separate occasions who asked me my race all of sudden lost contact with me after agreeing to shoot.

If they ask, I will continue to let them know. If they feel that way, I'm the one who really doesn't to deal with them.

Ditto, because I was asked this too by a model and it's odd because so far the model has called me 3 times after the confirmation of my color. The last time the model called to set up a time to meet, I never heard from the model since. So, I'm done with the model. I'm not a yo yo nor do I need someone who is afraid that I'm going to pull a Mandingo on them. Besides, I already have a model who is down for the shoot. And yes she is white and have other friends who are down too. And if anyone who looks at my port, not that it matters, but you'll see that my port has diversity. Which means I don't have to kiss anyone's ass. Not that I would anyways without the diverse port.

acidstudios wrote:
I assume that since you are even asking this question, then you are unsure.  Otherwise, why ask us for our opinion?  So, If it bothers you, then yes, you should tell models that you are black.

Yes it bothers him which is why he's addressing the question. That was obvious when he addressed that he lives in a upper middle class neighborhood with a nice house. This was his way of addressing that he is 'safe'. And frankly I get sick of blacks having to try to convince others that he or she is safe. Fuck em and fuck what they think. It's more of what she fears and what she may deep down desire inside.

As for the showing his picture. Why? My answer to that question is. Show it, but don't show it because you feel that you are obligated to show that you are black. Show it if you feel the need to reassure the model that what they see is the actual photographer because they don't have a face to see. Nothing more, nothing less.

Cspine wrote:
I diddn't read though every page but here's my take.

Some people are uncomfortable around or are afraid of black people. There may be an innocent reason or she might be in the kkk but either way, she had every right to leave for any reason. Let's assume that she was afraid of you. Should she be alone with you in fear just to spare your feelings? Perhapse she has a racist family that would think badly of her for shooting with you. Is it worth the drama? As long as she doesn't burn a cross in your front yard or make you sit in the back of the bus just write it off as personal preference and move on.

The fact that someone has to "burn a cross" or "be in the kkk" in my front yard to be decried for their bigotry is one of the reasons we still have racism to deal with. 

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle … emID=10157

UdoR wrote:

PPRO Analyst wrote:
Yesterday, I had a model walkout on a scheduled shoot because I “didn’t tell me you’re black!”

What annoys me the most is that there are some white conservatives (I know such a republican personally), who are boasting that racism is not an issue, "acknowledging" that "in some areas... maybe...", yet, it constantly happens, and that is sad!


Absolutely not!

You said a mouthful!

PPRO Analyst wrote:
Yesterday, I had a model walkout on a scheduled shoot because I “didn’t tell me you’re black!”  This model and had several phone conversations about the planned shoot, her portfolio, my portfolio, etc.  We even talked about family and educational goals.  You know all the normal stuff adults talk about.

The shoot was at my condo in the Lincoln Park section of Chicago, not exactly the hood!
Average home costs around $550,000 so you get the idea of the community.

As a minority photographer, shooting nudes, should I make a point of advising new models that I am Black?

thats total BS, she was totally unprofessional! You don't have to let people know your race, you should however let people know her name so not to work with her because she is racist! Some of my favorite photographers have been black and I've gotten amazing images because of their awesome style. shes missing out!