Isys Entertainment wrote:
If you want some cash for your work GET AN AGENT!

Most of us are freelancers here. 

Isys Entertainment wrote:
The internet will never pay your rent, at best it will give you a bit of exposure and some valuable industry knowlege. ( there are exceptions)

Tell that to the many part-time models I know who make a fulltime income from running their own non nude tease sites or the ones who have a fan base online paying for images as well as getting traditional modleing jobs on the side.  There are more exceptions than you realize.

Isys Entertainment wrote:
Further in this business you NEED thick skin and the ability to ge graceful even when under fire. Kill them with kindness but still be true to yourself and your values.

She was not rude to anyone here, at least not in her original post. But many were trying to "kill" her with rudeness. 

Isys Entertainment wrote:
Now let us look at the picture you have painted, step out of yourself and look at yourself from an others perspective. What do you see, and how would you respond to this woman and her post?

So how many of us would be happy if we posted on the Travel Bulletin" on OMP that we were traveling to a location while also mentioning we are asking for paid jobs .. only to get a bunch of "TFP"s?  If I were to post a travel bulletin only to get TFP requests, I would not bother to travel.

Isys Entertainment wrote:
Marketing is a HUGE factor when getting paid ( in any industry)...why you ask....simple; nothing sells if nobody knows about it....

Now you speak the truth on that!  Even "bad press" gets attention.  Look at what all the bad press has done for MySpace!  It's amazing that MySpace has doubled in size since Fox News bought it.  They are experts at spin! 

Isys Entertainment wrote:
So how do you want people to percieve you? Do you think all publicity is good publicity? Ok..now let us ask another question: what type of person do you want people to think you are?

I carefully read her words, and did not interprate it the same way as others who have posted here.  I also looked at her background and did not prejudge her. I see that she is was born in
Brasov, Romania.  She is fluent in Romanian, Spanish, and English.  If you took the time to read her profile then you'd know that education is obviously important to her!

Isys Entertainment wrote:
I do apologize for being abstract, ... I wish you much success!   
Isys

Yes, much of the rest of what youu wrote was too abstract for me to see the connection ... but it is very sweet of you.  I know you mean well!   But there is more to Alex than meets the eye here.  Also I think it is more embarrassing to prejudge someone you do not even know.  Best wishes! Patrick

KM von Seidl wrote:
Alex, no matter what you do, please don't ever duplicate a shot where there is a church spire thrusting through your arm and your hand doing something, not sure what to your rear.

LOL .. it's not the most flattering, but I have seen worse on other profiles here!

Greg Kolack wrote:
I can't believe this has gone on this long. It all boils down to just another young, inexperienced, egotistical girl (to call her a woman is an insult to all the mature females out there) who thinks she is far above everyone because of her pretty face and big breasts - whether it be a model, socialite, or club hopper who must have the last word - simply stated, a grown up brat.

Nothing anyone here can say or do will sway her. Only experience will humble her.

Experience yes.  So will wrinkles.

KM von Seidl wrote:
***********
  This is MM, please do not introduce logic into a thread.

I've been very active in shutting down illegitimate agencies in California.  The California Dept. of Labor where these agents are supposed to be licensed have heard from me many times.  I rarely hire agency models ... although some legit agencies have hired me.  It's how I've gotten some "extra" work. 

Oh, but I have sent a couple models to Ford or Elite from time to time.

Greg Kolack wrote:
I can't believe this has gone on this long. It all boils down to just another young, inexperienced, egotistical girl (to call her a woman is an insult to all the mature females out there) who thinks she is far above everyone because of her pretty face and big breasts - whether it be a model, socialite, or club hopper who must have the last word - simply stated, a grown up brat.

Nothing anyone here can say or do will sway her. Only experience will humble her.

Greg, sorry but you are wrong.  It's blatantly obvious you are making prejudgment without reading.  Yes, I understand that reading takes effort, but try it sometime!

PK Digital Imaging wrote:
1 Post to create a 230+ reply thread full of anger, bitterness, sarcasm, wit.

First off.  The original post was about saying that she was travelling and while on travel, wanted a paid shoot.  People who responded all offered TFP.  This just goes to show that people have a real hard time actually READING posts in the casting calls and travel notice boards.  A LOT of the responses in THIS thread ALSO indicate that people should take more time to READ.

However... and it's a BIG however.  The last line in the original post was VERY poorly chosen/composed.  Yes, that is a HUGE turn-off if you're looking for any type of sympathy or understanding from your point of view.  That last line is what totally flared up this flame of a thread.

What followed next were sniping remarks from others as well as the original poster.  All of the responders need to realize that after the first few comments, it wasn't going to sink into her head about what you were trying to convey to her.  Yes, posting on this board can affect any future project with potential photographers/models/stylists.  Alex C 'kind of' sees that but will not admit to the error.  Which is further fueling the fires.  Everyone else should be able to see this as a networking faux pas.  Many notable MM members have given her the advice she needs.  Whether she accepts that advice or not, is HER responsibility.

Alex C... my advice to you would be to bite the bullet and let this issue drop.  So far  you've made it very clear to many of the members that you have a rather naieve outlook on how to come across as professional.

A true paid shoot is one where there is a client involved.  The photographer is NOT the client.  If a photographer pays you to be in his book, this is not a paid professional shoot.  It's a book update and nothing more.  How many of those images you have in your port have been published or used by a client?

I know you understand the rules and implications of TFP/CD and you make that very clear.  However, if you want to be working as a paid professional, you have to come across AS a professional in skills, pose, knowledge and most of all COMMUNINCATION.

Your original intent of your post was right on.  People SHOULD read your travel notice for it's face value.  If ANYONE posted that they were looking for paid work only, people should respect that and just move on instead of trying to "talk you" into something you weren't looking for in the first place.

Your original intent however went totally south with your 'grace your portfolio for free' comment.  Even if you feel this way, it's NEVER okay to say something in such a public forum.  Yes, there are models who are divas.. but those models have been through it all.  You however haven't even started a true career and yet you make comments that make you look like a stereotypical Internet model who thinks they're all that without the ability or knowlege to back that up.

Your follow up posts to some of the other comments.. no matter how hurtful you may think they are, are just digging you further and further into a hole.  You may be the most spirited and fun person to work with but a thread like this on a networking website is putting a HUGE smear on your reputation for being professional.

Hence, my final words are... just let it drop and move on.

-PKD

p.s. How's that for a long winded recap?  hehehe

p.s.s. If  you want to see what to expect Alex C.. .check out Adrianna's posting about an independant film about dismemberment.

You are right on!  Why such a fuss over one word, I'll never know?   When did "grace" become such a horrible thing?  So I am one photographer here who would pay Alex, and I know there are more than just me.

Patrick Walberg wrote:

Greg, sorry but you are wrong.  It's blatantly obvious you are making prejudgment without reading.  Yes, I understand that reading takes effort, but try it sometime!

Actually, I do agree with her that people either don't the time to read or simply ignore what is written. I have actually posted about exactly that subject. I have absolutely no disagreement with that. It is the superior attitude she taken and constant snide little comments to get the last word in that the majority of these posters are commenting about.

Patrick Walberg wrote:
Snip

I know you are the advocate but perhaps me and her have had other communication. Not once was I negative and further many opinions are better than one

A

Alex C wrote:
People make such ridiculous comments on here. This thread should be closed, people keep twisting and twisting it... Patrick, thank you for posting since the beginning, and for standing up for me!

You are welcome!  I look forward to the possibility of working with you someday.  For sure one thing you know about me is that I don't make such sharp judgements based on a word or two in a post here.

Greg Kolack wrote:

Actually, I do agree with her that people either don't the time to read or simply ignore what is written. I have actually posted about exactly that subject. I have absolutely no disagreement with that. It is the superior attitude she taken and constant snide little comments to get the last word in that the majority of these posters are commenting about.

LOL  OK, you got me there .. I am as bad as the next photographer in trying to get the last word in an arguement!     If I wasn't a photographer, I'd be a lawyer,

Patrick Walberg wrote:
You are right on!  Why such a fuss over one word, I'll never know?   When did "grace" become such a horrible thing?  So I am one photographer here who would pay Alex, and I know there are more than just me.

And further proof that people don't read.  You didn't read the part where I said "Patrick is a chucklehead"
















MADE YA LOOK!

Isys Entertainment wrote:

I know you are the advocate but perhaps me and her have had other communication. Not once was I negative and further many opinions are better than one

A

I like your profile and see many positives from what you wrote in this thread.  Seriously, I do thank you!  I am in communication with her too.

Patrick Walberg wrote:

I like your profile and see many positives from what you wrote in this thread.  Seriously, I do thank you!  I am in communication with her too.

Cool Daddy~O

I think your awesome, just for the record

PK Digital Imaging wrote:

And further proof that people don't read.  You didn't read the part where I said "Patrick is a chucklehead"














MADE YA LOOK!

ROFLMAO!  Looks like the train stopped before the train wreck that someone predicted earlier could happen!   

Patrick Walberg wrote:

Sinsazia, you are probably the the model posting here in this thread that I would NOT work with due your your sarcastic attitude.

Ok

Isys Entertainment wrote:

Cool Daddy~O

I think your awesome, just for the record

Awww!  Thanks!  And to think that someone on an "Off Topic" thread didn't think I could negotiate peace in the Middle East!  Well this has come down to a good conclusion ... there is always hope!

Patrick Walberg wrote:

I've been very active in shutting down illegitimate agencies in California.  The California Dept. of Labor where these agents are supposed to be licensed have heard from me many times.  I rarely hire agency models ... although some legit agencies have hired me.  It's how I've gotten some "extra" work. 

Oh, but I have sent a couple models to Ford or Elite from time to time.

*******

I'm missing your point.  Anyone can send models to Ford or Elite.  Or are you saying that you have an "in"with them?

And just out of curiousity, what modeling agencies have hired you and what did they hire you for?

Alex C wrote:
People make such ridiculous comments on here. This thread should be closed, people keep twisting and twisting it... Patrick, thank you for posting since the beginning, and for standing up for me!

Probably - but I'll bet you tone down your arrogance from now on

John

Sinsazia wrote:

Ok

There is always hope.  Attitudes can change!  We don't really know each other, so let's just leave it at that. 

John Allan wrote:

Probably - but I'll bet you tone down your arrogance from now on

John

Oh c'mon, people took it the wrong way. I will definitely try though

Alex C wrote:
Oh c'mon, people took it the wrong way. I will definitely try though

Yes Alex- we were all wrong- you were right.  Oh brother.

Patrick Walberg wrote:
OK, so you have a healthy ego about your work as a photographer.
That is fine. But it does not mean that other photographers,
including myself ... wouldn't hire her.

Looking at the profile of one of the first models to laugh at her,
I'd hire the OP over her ... so don't laugh so hard.


Again, it's shoking how many of you take one word in her first post,
and read so much into it!

That's okay, jab two in my direction.  I state clearly in MY portfolio that I know it's cheese and that I don't have anything worth looking at and that is why I'm here.  I can admit it sucks.  As far as you once again stating you would not work with me, I'm more than okay with that.  You have clearly and repeatedly stated your case that you simply adore Alex and would love to pay her for her modeling services.  Great.  Wonderful for you both. 

What I honestly do not understand is why, after so many photographers and models alike try to give this young lady some great advice, she kept kicking dirt in their faces.  And you seem to condone it.

*shrugs*

To each his own.  And thanks AGAIN for bringing attention to my portfolio.  I've had numerous emails so far stemming from your earlier post asking if I would be interested in some work.  I appreciate your promotion.

Alex C wrote:
Patrick, I wish I could have even half of the number of posts that you have!!

If you'd been around as long as I have ... since Apr 09, 2005.   I blame my friends #652 Hugh Jorgen, and #687 DreamPretty for getting me involved here!   Writing is something I enjoy nearly as much as photography.  You seem to enjoy writing too and might even have more posts than me in the near future. 

Patrick Walberg wrote:
I have looked at everyones profiles here.  There are some great photographers posting!  The models who posted in this thread are not bad either.  After reading all the posts in this thread, I have come to the judgement that there is only one model I wouldn't work with or hire ... and it's NOT Alex!

But I will be nice and leave the name of the model I wouldn't work with out because it is more of a personal issue than having to do with her ability.

Interesting how many here will do their best to twist words to make it about themselves ... instead of taking the time to read and understand.  This entire thread blew up huge over very little.

Leave it out?  You already stated it.  Thanks again...no. 3

Sinsazia wrote:
I state clearly in MY portfolio that I know it's cheese and that I don't have anything worth looking at and that is why I'm here.  I can admit it sucks.

You know, as I'm writing this, I haven't even looked at your portfolio. But I have to tell you. If you really feel that way about your work (and apparently you do or you wouldn't be shouting it in a public forum), then give up, remove it from public view (we don't want to look at it either if it sucks) and do something else. Otherwise, work on it and overcome whatever deficiency you feel your creativity is exhibiting... Improve!

John

Patrick Walberg wrote:

There is always hope.  Attitudes can change!  We don't really know each other, so let's just leave it at that. 

Eh..it happens.  Good luck with your work.  You have a great eye.

And again..thanks for the round-about promotion..haha

John Allan wrote:

You know, as I'm writing this, I haven't even looked at your portfolio. But I have to tell you. If you really feel that way about your work (and apparently you do or you wouldn't be shouting it in a public forum), then give up, remove it from public view (we don't want to look at it either if it sucks) and do something else. Otherwise, work on it and overcome whatever deficiency you feel your creativity is exhibiting... Improve!

John

I'm just relaying what I've received from a few messages.  And..I'm working on it.  I have 6 shoots lined up already with very talented photographers and am looking forward to some non-self-taken shots.

Sinsazia wrote:

That's okay, jab two in my direction.  I state clearly in MY portfolio that I know it's cheese and that I don't have anything worth looking at and that is why I'm here.  I can admit it sucks.  As far as you once again stating you would not work with me, I'm more than okay with that.  You have clearly and repeatedly stated your case that you simply adore Alex and would love to pay her for her modeling services.  Great.  Wonderful for you both. 

What I honestly do not understand is why, after so many photographers and models alike try to give this young lady some great advice, she kept kicking dirt in their faces.  And you seem to condone it.

*shrugs*

To each his own.  And thanks AGAIN for bringing attention to my portfolio.  I've had numerous emails so far stemming from your earlier post asking if I would be interested in some work.  I appreciate your promotion.

The first person to post after the OP, basically said "you had me until the word grace" and it snowballed from there.  I never said anything about your work, it was the "lol" over the perception of Alex's attitude being bad based on the last sentence she wrote in the OP.  So you contributed to the snowball. 

Certainly there is good advise in many of the posts here, but there was a lot of unnecessary put downs going on too.  I try to stay out of the mud throwing, but to throw a shield up to repel it.  You probably notice that I never said anything bad about your portfolio, you are hard enough on yourself for the both of us.  So my advise to you is start building yourself up instead of worrying about other models or even the photographers here.  By the way, congratulations!  I know that you recently became a mom!  That child is far more important to you than a silly argument on this forum! 

You are welcome for the promotion!  All the posting in this forum is good for us even when it might seem negative to some of us at first.  As I said before, there is always hope. 

You have my best wishes! 

Sinsazia wrote:

Leave it out?  You already stated it.  Thanks again...no. 3

Awww ...  it wasn't that obvious since hardly anyone except you, me and Alex are reading this thread, right?      LOL

Patrick Walberg wrote:

The first person to post after the OP, basically said "you had me until the word grace" and it snowballed from there.  I never said anything about your work, it was the "lol" over the perception of Alex's attitude being bad based on the last sentence she wrote in the OP.  So you contributed to the snowball. 

Certainly there is good advise in many of the posts here, but there was a lot of unnecessary put downs going on too.  I try to stay out of the mud throwing, but to throw a shield up to repel it.  You probably notice that I never said anything bad about your portfolio, you are hard enough on yourself for the both of us.  So my advise to you is start building yourself up instead of worrying about other models or even the photographers here.  By the way, congratulations!  I know that you recently became a mom!  That child is far more important to you than a silly argument on this forum! 

You are welcome for the promotion!  All the posting in this forum is good for us even when it might seem negative to some of us at first.  As I said before, there is always hope. 

You have my best wishes! 

Thanks on many levels.  And best wishes to you too.

Patrick Walberg wrote:
Awww ...  it wasn't that obvious since hardly anyone except you, me and Alex are reading this thread, right?      LOL

hahahaha!

HEY! my name is easy to pick out.

OH...and kudos to Alex C for cooling off.  It is easy to attack or feel attacked in here because, well...people are involved.  Part of life. 

Okay...reading 7 pages of the same thing being typed by different people has worn me out.  Have a great night!