Alex C wrote:
No, sorry. Many images in my port were done at TFP sessions with awesome photographers.

TXPhotog wrote:
Let's define terms.

"Awsome photographers" are photographers who produce awsome pictures.  As so many people have said, you don't have any awesome pictures in your portfolio.  At best they are mediocre.  Given that you have shot with these awesome photographers, what happened so the pictures didn't come out good?

Let me put it another way:  it appears you need to spend some time educating yourself on what an "awesome", or ever very good, photographer is.  It appears you haven't met any yet.

Hey, TX, you forgot to mention that, by definition, plane crashes and train wrecks are "awesome" as well?



Studio36

rachelrose wrote:
this might sound like a silly question, but if it is a job that is paid a normal models day rate, why would the photographer/client hire a model off MM or OMP who is not even with an agency, when he can just cast from an agency in his area?

Agency or Internet? Bottom line? I can, and have, street cast models that are at least as good as the OP... and with a better attitude. Every other photographer here has probably, at one time or another, done the same.

This girl came to me by introduction - but was a street casting by a music producer who wanted to see how the camera saw her [for a music video]. He paid me to shoot her for him... for her it was TFP. This is and was her absolutely very first time in front of a camera... ever. She had ZERO experience when I shot this. She is NOT a model and doesn't claim to be one. And yet one can see some potential there that could possibly be developed. At least as much as the OP's self proclaimed potential, but without the OP's "I wanna be paid" at-ti-tude.



Studio36

Alex C wrote:
Vito, actually, I was taking a look at your port... Not liking what I see....

Alex C wrote:
I am posting here to voice my concerns/feelings/questions. That is why I post. If photographers do not like it, they don't have to work with me. It's as easy as that.

Alex C wrote:
Julie Michelle, I don't have to make you look bad. You've pretty much done it yourself.

Alex C wrote:
Again, the internet makes my ego seem inflated. My ego is fine the way it is.

Alex C wrote:
You guys are all nuts

Alex C wrote:
Oh c'mon, people took it the wrong way.

Alex C wrote:
[People make such ridiculous comments on here. This thread should be closed, people keep twisting and twisting it..

Compare the above statements with the next one.

Alex C wrote:
I didn't make this posting to get advice on networking.

Vito's answer sounds like a solid piece of advice. It was also stated by Iona Lynn, TXPhotog, SLE Photography.

In the following exchange:

TXPhotog wrote:
Let me put it another way:  it appears you need to spend some time educating yourself on what an "awesome", or ever very good, photographer is.  It appears you haven't met any yet.

Alex C wrote:
And you definitely aren't one of them.

You took a bit of legitimate advice, and responded with an insult--or at least a statement that most readers will see as an insult, which--in reality--is sufficient.

Patrick Walberg wrote:
How many of us are aware that Alex is not native to this country, and that there maybe misunderstandings to the words she chose to write and our responses?

Patrick Walberg wrote:
Tony, you and I are on the same page most of the time.  Languages can be hell sometimes ... even English can be hard for native speakers of it.  For some reason, I sensed right away that she was not born in the USA, and I was right.  I think it was her choice of words.

A pattern of misunderstanding, combined with the insistance that the problem is with everyone else indicates a more serious problem than simple miscommunication. (Her final statement in the first post wasn't a big deal; her "defense" was.)

Patrick Walberg wrote:
No, Alex did not attack anyone here.

See her post to Vito (quoted at the top of this message.) It's not an attack on an individual, but what had been stated was that "she reacted in a negative fashion that furthered their poor impressions of her"

Alex C wrote:
What I was saying is that I was not interested in TFP with almost everyone that asks me! I have built my portfolio, and OUCH, if some of you think it is not up to par, I can say it will only get better. But thanx for trying to put me down.

No reason to put you down, nor any intent to do so.

I'm curious, though; what makes you feel your portfolio will only get better? Are you working with photographers who are better--or with photographers who "pay better"? (I haven't seen your existing portfolio; I've deliberately avoided looking.)

ericphotonyc wrote:
All this wasted bandwith.  Why not just hit the delete button and pop a valium?

Insomnia + train wrecks.

Isys Entertainment wrote:
So how do you want people to percieve you? Do you think all publicity is good publicity? Ok..now let us ask another question: what type of person do you want people to think you are?

This is for you to decide.

Excellent advice.

wrote:
Thread officially closed.  Any further contributors are dead horse floggers.

Who elected you official thread closer?

Besides, that horse may just be sleeping...

Kevin Connery wrote:
Who elected you official thread closer?

Besides, that horse may just be sleeping...

Or maybe just resting, LOL

Studio36

Alex C wrote:
As to how many photographers I have paid, the count stand at 1.

Alex, just out of curiousity and not meaning to be combative I'd like to know why it was or what it was that caused you to pay the photographer?

I'm constantly reading models commenting on getting TFP offers but I've can't recall any talking about actually paying a photographer.

Doug Swinskey wrote:
well i guess im departing from every one here,

but this girl placed a travel notice for paid work..what she got was TFP requests...

so my thought, if you dont want to hire her..

dont respond...

its real easy...

she has every right to get tired of photographers not bothering to read her posting...and everyone here would be the same way...i know i get tired of the TFP requests from amatuers...

If only people would read the notices and castings.....
I have had replies to castings that are way out of line (males replying for female needed, 26yo people applying for 16-18yo work etc) Then if I don't reply with a no thanks we can't use you I am being unprofessional. She has every right to work with whome she wants to on any level she wants to. If I want to do TFP or not it's up to me. Thing is if I post I am heading to Hawaii for paid shoots I would not want to be bombarded with TFP offers just because someone thinks my request for paid work is a haggling point.
Let her be, let the models be, just let everyone be and let them work as they wish...as well as express their feelings without getting attacked.

Sita Mae Edwards wrote:
Maybe the guys in Detroit don't think paying a non-nude 5'2" model would be worth it.

ouch!

Alex C wrote:
I am kind of irritated. I posted a travel notice for Detroit stating that I am looking for any paid projects not involving nudity. I get back 4 replies all saying something along the lines of "I'm up for TFP to build my portfolio." Do people not think I'm worth enough to pay?
.
.
.
.

Do they think I will grace their portfolios for free?

Actually, what you're expressing is not really that bad. The above line is what got you in trouble. When you state that you would grace someone's portfolio, it immediately puts yourself into a class of true "diva" calibre. And if that is the case, you'd better be prepared to back it up.

Whether you intended to or not, it's equivilant to an insult to hardworking photographers who would be offering you a service as well as you offering them.

Alex C wrote:
Do they think I will grace their portfolios for free?

00siris wrote:
The above line is what got you in trouble.

no offense dude, but this was probably mentioned about 50 times in the thread already...

and the original post, was really about photographers not reading or paying attention....

the model sending out a travel request for paid work and recieving offers of TFP..

how come were not on the ass of the idiots that didnt read her travel request, instead we jump on her for her own self confidence...and thats something, that is desireable in a model..

not sure english is her first language, so i can overlook one mis-used word...but it seems 95% of the respondants cant..

KARLOS MATTHEWS wrote:
This is getting ugly..............................//

these posting always end on a negative  :-P

Hey 8 pages and nobody has been called a Nazi yet (Goodwin's law) so I guess that is progress from most 8 page threads

kiana's place wrote:

Hey 8 pages and nobody has been called a Nazi yet (Goodwin's law) so I guess that is progress from most 8 page threads

oh yeah, whats that supposed to mean?

David Birdsong wrote:
We cleared up some things and heck we might even do a TFP shoot when she is here next month.

i got $10 bucks says she flakes... hehehe

Doug Swinskey wrote:
oh yeah, whats that supposed to mean?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

I guess she means that this thread is eight pages long and so far only moderate insults have been hurled so that in it's self is a positive thing.

kiana's place wrote:
Hey 8 pages and nobody has been called a Nazi yet (Goodwin's law) so I guess that is progress from most 8 page threads

:::WARNING!!  This post is off-topic, in no way serious and contains bad humor!!:::

Ugh!  Are you the thread Gestapo or something?! 



Wait...





...did that just somehow validate Godwin's law?  Ooops.

Sky Above wrote:
You cannot start to build a good book on TFP you just can't. Heres why. Generally those offering TFP to a new model are not that good themselves. A good photographer generally will not shoot TFP with an inexperienced model, and your images are your biggest telling factor about how professional you are.

SLE Photography wrote:
Yeah, me too.  18 years of experience, thousands of $s in equipment, hundreds of hours of classes & training, time as a college TA and a high school instructor in the subject, and it turns out I probably suck 

TMShots Photo wrote:
Hey guys.  Lets start the sucky photog group

I'm in!

SLE Photography wrote:
Oh, is that where Kennesaw is near?
I come to Atlanta a few times a year & am HOPING to start shooting catalogue for a custom clothier up there, maybe we can work out a shoot if you don't get down to O-Town 

Pretty_Dollface wrote:
yeah im 25 minutes from atlanta. if your in atlanta just take 75 north for about 15 minutes and when you get off its 10 mins after that.

Let's keep in touch with each other, if I'm there first I'll come to you & if you're here forst you come to me.  I think we could make beautiful pics together, even if they suck 'cause they're TFP 

Alex C wrote:
Again, the internet makes my ego seem inflated. My ego is fine the way it is.

The camera adds 10 pounds and the internet adds ego huh?
I'd like to note to Patrick Walberg & anyone else defending the young lady in question (mostly Patrick) regarding her attitude & excusing it as a "language" issue that not only did she directly attack some of the other posters her (TXPhoto for instance) and denigrate them personally and their work as well in a VERY literate fashion (her written English is better than half the 19 yr old native English speakers on this site) but she also felt compelled to hop over to my profile and PM me insulting comments about how she wouldn't deign to work with me becuase of the quality of my work.
Catch to that being #1 she's an awful long way away from me & I expressed no interest in working with her, and #2 I never insulted her personally and in fact said she was lovely, I just questioned her behavior and the image she was putting out.  I even agreed with the substance of her OP, just not how she SAID it.
So excusing her now clearly crude & insulting behavior by saying "She's not a native English speaker" simply does NOT wash.

Patrick Walberg wrote:
I carefully read her words, and did not interprate it the same way as others who have posted here.  I also looked at her background and did not prejudge her. I see that she is was born in
Brasov, Romania.  She is fluent in Romanian, Spanish, and English.  If you took the time to read her profile then you'd know that education is obviously important to her!

Wait, I thought your excuse for her initial rudeness & arrogance, which you were the only person to miss apparently, was that English isn't her first language (Tho as I just noted her English is far superior to many of the native speakers here who type in Net-ese).
Not you're commenting on how fluent she is in several languages?
Doesn't that sort of beat your theory about her not noticing the arrogance either?
Especially since she started to go out of her way to attack people here & in my case in PMs as well?

Jennifer Hicklen wrote:
I do not think they are not considering your worth, but who really reads in America these days.  And also I have been told that models post "Paid assignments" trying to distract the male perverted "half naked" "booty shooters"


Jennifer

Jennifer, this is correct as well.  Several people have commented that often if they offer TFP people will take it if they like their work, regardless of "Pay only" comments.
The OP even commented she does some TFP.
In fact, in several threads that've been posted by models here, they've stated that the way they get out of offers to work by people they're not interested in (assuming they want to send some sort of response) is to "send rates."
So it's reasonable to assume that some models are in fact asking for $ just to weed out those they find undesireable.

Sinsazia wrote:
To each his own.  And thanks AGAIN for bringing attention to my portfolio.  I've had numerous emails so far stemming from your earlier post asking if I would be interested in some work.  I appreciate your promotion.

BTW, if I make it to Tx or you to Fla I'd love to shoot with you 
Assuming you don't think I suck too much since I do tfp 

Alex C wrote:
I am kind of irritated. I posted a travel notice for Detroit stating that I am looking for any paid projects not involving nudity. I get back 4 replies all saying something along the lines of "I'm up for TFP to build my portfolio." Do people not think I'm worth enough to pay? Do they think I will grace their portfolios for free?

lol ... wait ok, you're serious, sorry.

Alex C wrote:
Do they think I will grace their portfolios for free?

Yes.

Alex C wrote:
Yes, definitely! This was on OMP though. But either way, I would do TFP with a photographer I find highly talented. But otherwise, the others that aren't on that level think they deserve the same.

One, perhaps the photographer(s) at this point thought you might "find them highly talented".  I am sure you have approached a photographer or two this way as well in hopes of shooting TFP.

Alex C wrote:
Do people not think I'm worth enough to pay? Do they think I will grace their portfolios for free?

Two, this post here might have very well ruined your chances of 'succeeding' on this website.  After viewing your portfolio, though you are a nice looking individual, I failed to recognize any credentials that would qualify you to make such a statement.

Alex C wrote:
As to how many photographers I have paid, the count stand at 1.

Perhaps if you invested more of your earnings from your 7 paid shoots into more portfolio development, more photographers might be interested in paying you.  It's a give and take relationship, and often times you must give more than you can take to get ahead.

Kevin Connery wrote:
Vito's answer sounds like a solid piece of advice. It was also stated by Iona Lynn, TXPhotog, SLE Photography.

Hey, thanks!

Kevin Connery wrote:
A pattern of misunderstanding, combined with the insistance that the problem is with everyone else indicates a more serious problem than simple miscommunication. (Her final statement in the first post wasn't a big deal; her "defense" was.)

Oh good, it WASN'T just me.

Kevin Connery wrote:
Who elected you official thread closer?

Besides, that horse may just be sleeping...

Exactly.  I just took a break 'cause I had a late night shoot with Craid Seay (22876) and Spellbound Soul (33927)
(quickie edit:

yeah, it sucks, but it was TFP!)
and then I had a date. 

Actually, I probably wouldn't have come back if Alex hadn't goaded me by dropping by my port to be insulting.

Alex C wrote:
Iona, the only thing you see here is what I have posted. If you ask all of the photographers that I have worked with they will say they had a fun time, and that I know how to work the camera. I'm sure you won't have time to do that though. Again, I was not posting to get advice on how to network myself, I was simply stating my feelings and concerns. And I am a very blunt person.

Jim Ball wrote:
I read this whole thread before looking at the OP's portfolio.  She may not do nudes, but she does swimsuit and see-thru lingerie.  That's plenty for some GWC's to pay for.

SLE Photography wrote:

BTW, if I make it to Tx or you to Fla I'd love to shoot with you 
Assuming you don't think I suck too much since I do tfp 

ooohh....yeah...sorry but you suck waaaaaay too much because you only do TFP.  You see..I have 99% self taken shots in my portrait because I'm a beginner BUT..I expect only the best.  So my rate is ONE MIIIIILLIIIIION Dollars an hour.



Sure thang suga!  I've admired some of your work a few times already.  I'd love to shoot with you!

Sinsazia wrote:
ooohh....yeah...sorry but you suck waaaaaay too much because you only do TFP.  You see..I have 99% self taken shots in my portrait because I'm a beginner BUT..I expect only the best.  So my rate is ONE MIIIIILLIIIIION Dollars an hour.



Sure thang suga!  I've admired some of your work a few times already.  I'd love to shoot with you!

$1,000,000 huh?
I guess you're worth it 
If you scroll up a bit you'll see one of my new ones

SLE Photography wrote:

$1,000,000 huh?
I guess you're worth it 
If you scroll up a bit you'll see one of my new ones

Watch it..my head is swelling.  haha

I saw that...I immediately knew she wanted to touch it.  Must...touch..the...flame.

nice shot!

Sinsazia wrote:
Watch it..my head is swelling.  haha

I saw that...I immediately knew she wanted to touch it.  Must...touch..the...flame.

nice shot!

Oh noes, it's interwebz ego attack!
And I ended up burning MY hand on the damn thing while moving it in the dark LOL
Thanks 
Wait till I post the rest!

kiana's place wrote:
Hey 8 pages and nobody has been called a Nazi yet (Goodwin's law) so I guess that is progress from most 8 page threads

Wait just one cotton pickin' minute. Forget the OP's problem. I just read your profile and it seems your story is much more interesting... Inquiring minds wanna know? A shackled blonde babe? Holy cow! You didn't sleep with one of your students did you?

Sky Above wrote:
I don't feel like quoting the other posts......

Of course Cindy Crawford had her book built by TFP....but this is the internet...and Cindy was a super model in the making....can't compare.

Everyone else can take what they want out the rest and go from there....

Alex asked why she wasn't getting a response for paid work, I gave my opinion.

I'm sorry but like I said. Your statement complete was horse shit. Look around. There are phenominal photographers that sometimes work in TFP because they can. They are so good that their test shots look professional enough to be in a portfolio. You gave your empty, insulting, crap that you call an opinion without having anything intelligent to bring to the table. Before you open your mouth and start putting all photographers names who do TFP through the mud, dont. Shut up and remember that your putting yourself in a whole. I'm not a photographer but I have respect for them and the time and hard work they put in.

John Jebbia wrote:

Wait just one cotton pickin' minute. Forget the OP's problem. I just read your profile and it seems your story is much more interesting... Inquiring minds wanna know? A shackled blonde babe? Holy cow! You didn't sleep with one of your students did you?

!! Oh scandulous!

KM von Seidl wrote:

***********
  This is MM, please do not introduce logic into a thread.

Hahaha!! Logic? whats logic, again?

Jose Luis wrote:

Yes Alex- we were all wrong- you were right.  Oh brother.

come on dont be that way. she said that she was going to try to tone down her arrogence.

wrote:
Thread officially closed.  Any further contributors are dead horse floggers.

Who elected you official thread closer?

Besides, that horse may just be sleeping...

haha awesome! good times.

SLE Photography wrote:

SLE Photography wrote:
Oh, is that where Kennesaw is near?
I come to Atlanta a few times a year & am HOPING to start shooting catalogue for a custom clothier up there, maybe we can work out a shoot if you don't get down to O-Town 

Let's keep in touch with each other, if I'm there first I'll come to you & if you're here forst you come to me.  I think we could make beautiful pics together, even if they suck 'cause they're TFP 

yeah!!! And reemember: We have to start that "sucky photogs cuz they do tfp and the models who love them" group