Alex C wrote:

Vito, get back to counting how may times I change my avatar. I can read, I answered back to what she posted you don't have to restate what she previously said.

I know you can read. I just thought you may have not gotten the hint.
But you did try (again) to get the last word.

Jay Bowman wrote:
And I still wouldn't pay for the "privilege" to shoot you.

But for personal portfolio work?  I don't need anyone to "grace" my portfolio that badly...

Jay is absolutely right. I always get a kick out of these models who think that I would pay them just to update my portfolio. Not gonna happen.

Alex C wrote:
I am kind of irritated. I posted a travel notice for Detroit stating that I am looking for any paid projects not involving nudity. I get back 4 replies all saying something along the lines of "I'm up for TFP to build my portfolio." Do people not think I'm worth enough to pay? Do they think I will grace their portfolios for free?

Alex. Out of curiousity just how many "paying" shoots have you done to date? What are your credentials? Please list them so we can all understand just how flabbergasted you got by someone asking "YOU" to shoot TFP.

Nic

Vito wrote:

What she's saying is, maybe you should.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Agreed.

Brian Diaz wrote:
Okay, this is not the critique forum.  Leave people's portfolios out of it.  Now that I mention it, leave the personal attacks out of it altogether.

Not to disagree with a mod...but...
this thread does need to have a (limited) critique of the OPs portfolio because what is being discussed here is her possibly needing more TFP or actually (gasp), paying a real good photographer for images for her port. So...I hope you leave a little leeway on that.

TXPhotog wrote:
I'm not sure I agree.  If her market is Internet GWCs  (which seems to be true, nobody else is going to hire her from a posting on the Internet), the pictures she has seem more than adequate for the task.  On the other hand, if she wanted to do something with real photographers and real clients, what you said is exactly right.

Oh!  Wait!  That is what she says she wants to do.  Never mind . . . .

Hold on here TX. I am probably misquoting you and am about to step on some obscure rule , but my purpose for being on sites like this is to find talent like AlexC. And I would hire her for a commercial job if she fit the bill. My work frequently requires a different style of model than is available at land based agencies. If a company has an employee or client that they want featured in an ad, but that particular person is a dud on camera, they look for a stand in of a similar physical description. Also, back to the pinup/Altoid discussion. Talent used in lampoon style ads are really difficult to find at land based agencies. Casting calls are handled through film agencies such as O'Conner Casting in Chicago, and their talent comes from everywhere including here. Fashion models at 5'2", probably not. Legitimate modeling talent at 5'2", definitely.

Alex C wrote:
You guys turned this around and flipped it upside down. I was not saying I will never in my life do TFP. I am a photographer myself and I love art. What I was saying is that I was not interested in TFP with almost everyone that asks me! I have built my portfolio, and OUCH, if some of you think it is not up to par, I can say it will only get better. But thanx for trying to put me down.

Actually no thats not what you said at all! (lol) Lets call a spade a spade here. In essence what you said was that you were shocked that people were offering TFP when you specifically said you wanted paid work and that you were of a caliber above TFP and deserved to be paid. Thats how I read it. I'd bet you would be hard pressed to find someone else who read it to see it another way.

Nic

MichaelNicoletti wrote:

Actually no thats not what you said at all! (lol) Lets call a spade a spade here. In essence what you said was that you were shocked that people were offering TFP when you specifically said you wanted paid work and that you were of a caliber above TFP and deserved to be paid. Thats how I read it. I'd bet you would be hard pressed to find someone else who read it to see it another way.

Nic

She also said:
"Do people not think I'm worth enough to pay? Do they think I will grace their portfolios for free?"

That last line is what triggered the backlash. As each person replied, she dug herself deeper and deeper in by trying to get the last word in.

Bob Randall Photography wrote:
Fashion models at 5'2", probably not. Legitimate modeling talent at 5'2", definitely.

I agree.  Being 5'2" doesn't prohibit a model from getting commercial work, although it greatly lowers her chances.  But bad pictures, and pictures that are not "commercial style", also greatly lower her chances.

I have no doubt that there are photographers and clients out there who are willing to look past bad presentation to try to find the value of a model, despite those bad pictures.  But in general, that's not the way the commercial market works.

Except, perhaps, for those "lampoon" pictures

Vito wrote:

Not to disagree with a mod...but...
this thread does need to have a (limited) critique of the OPs portfolio because what is being discussed here is her possibly needing more TFP or actually (gasp), paying a real good photographer for images for her port. So...I hope you leave a little leeway on that.

Okay, but attacks ain't cool.

Pretty_Dollface wrote:
Umm my name is Dollface and I live in Atlanta GA. Currently looking for paid work AND awesome TFP work (gotta love tfp). Yeah actually I'm just trying to lighen the mood a little cuz it seems to be a little heated. In Alex's defense she feels like  everyone on here is gaining up on her and attacking her so she is going to do whatever neccessary to defend herself. Weather it makes sense or not (and im not saying that it does or doesnt).

But the one thing that needs to be understood is that these phtotographers are right. They know what they're talking about. When you make a posts like this its going to get a non positive reaction. Whoever it was, I think it was TX, that said that photographers will see this post and use it as a factor in if they wanna use you or not is sooo on target. They'll see this and get a negative perception of you and your personality and not want to work with you.

To me its not all about the money. Its about exposure too. I havent gotten paid for modeling in quite a while but its ok because I'm meeting and networking with a lot of talented awesome ppl. Right now I have 3 TFP shoots lined up, because lets face it my port is nowhere where I want it to be right now. These ppl are amazing and so is their work. And because my port will be amazing maybe I will soon be able to book some paying gigs.

Hey Dollface, I completely agree with you.. as I was trying to explain before I am not saying I am too good for TFP jeeze the last shoot that I did 2 weeks ago was TFP. And it is definitely not all about the money, I wouldn't be doing this if I didn't love it! My port has many TFP shoots on it, and I appreciate and recognize the talent of the photographers that helped me and continue to do so.
        I just feel that everyone in this forum got to see my defensive side and not any of my other qualities. I have become so defensive actually because of all the incessant offers I have gotten for nude work when it clearly states in my portfolio that I do not do nude. I have no nude pictures in my portfolio. There are 2 sheer pieces, one which I decided to do with my own lingerie and another which was done for a paid swimsuit catalog.

Alex C wrote:
I would do TFP with a photographer I find highly talented. But otherwise, the others that aren't on that level think they deserve the same.

Alex C wrote:
As I explained to David in my reply message to him, his portfolio was the only one that I liked out of the offers.

I'm inclined to be a bit more blunt than Vito and some of the others here about the OP's attitude... so... to the OP:

Ohhhhhhhhhh Weeeeeeeeee aren't we just the little art critic now.

WhoTF do you think you are "Little Miss At-ti-tude"?

Studio36

Alex C wrote:
I am kind of irritated. . . . . Do they think I will grace their portfolios for free?

TXPhotog wrote:
Just curious . . . do you think your posts in this thread will make photographers more, or less interested in working with you?

Rats Tex, you beat me to it.

studio36uk wrote:

I'm inclined to be a bit more blunt than Vito and some of the others here about the OP's attitude... so... to the OP:

Ohhhhhhhhhh Weeeeeeeeee aren't we just the little art critic now.

WhoTF do you think you are?

Studio36

Awww.... So I don't even have the right to PICK who I choose to work with based on portfolios?

TXPhotog wrote:
Just curious . . . do you think your posts in this thread will make photographers more, or less interested in working with you?

Alex C wrote:
Why ask?

The fact that you have to ask speaks volumes 

Alex C wrote:
Awww.... So I don't even have the right to PICK who I choose to work with based on portfolios?

That's not what he said. Comprehension in this thread (OP side) is a bit lacking. If it weren't, this thread would not be 3 pages and growing.

The OP would have reiterated her intital statement (asking for paid, getting tfp offers (and nude offers). Accepted the possible reasons that we (et al) came up with as to why and ended. But every reply from OP ended with a snide dig at something/someone, so viola, 3 pages and expanding. Good thing I have some free time today.

Alex C wrote:
I am kind of irritated. I posted a travel notice for Detroit stating that I am looking for any paid projects not involving nudity. I get back 4 replies all saying something along the lines of "I'm up for TFP to build my portfolio." Do people not think I'm worth enough to pay? Do they think I will grace their portfolios for free?

Sit down...this is gonna sound harsh....

Are you looking for an honest answer by posting this thread? Be honest. You only have one other 'site' if you can call it that which is OMP. Not really your own site. Just another MM wearing different panties.

No. I wouldn't pay you to grace anything on my end. I get paid by clients, models, actors and anyone else who wants my professional services. This is the way the world works. TFC's are always talked about on sites like this because of the lack of real world working professionals that flock to a free site. Yet they rarely happen outside of this type of setting. I do them, sure. But extrememly rarely and at my choosing usually for a specific purpose like the ones I just set up for this summer. Not just to add to a port.

Sita Mae Edwards wrote:
Maybe the guys in Detroit don't think paying a non-nude 5'2" model would be worth it.

Alex C wrote:
Hehehe... always goes back to the same thing.

Sita's right tho.
You've got a TON of glamour-style work with little commerical modeling and you're too short for high fashion.  You're also in a smaller size market where there's not going to be much commercial work you're qualified for.
So you're going to be in the glamour/lingerie/swimsuit mode.
And in that realm, there're tons of girls who WILL do nude for TFP or low rates.
You're coming in with what seems to be a very egotistical attitude about yourself and your work & demanding pay from people who could get models that look just as good who will show more for less.
Does this mean you have to pose nude?
Of course not.
But don't be surprised if you get more offers for free work, especially when outside the area where you're established, becuase of what you're competing with.

Vito wrote:

That's not what he said. Comprehension in this thread (OP side) is a bit lacking. If it weren't, this thread would not be 3 pages and growing.

The OP would have reiterated her intital statement (asking for paid, getting tfp offers (and nude offers). Accepted the possible reasons that we (et al) came up with as to why and ended. But every reply from OP ended with a snide dig at something/someone, so viola, 3 pages and expanding. Good thing I have some free time today.

I read what studio36uk wrote 5 times and I don't understand it. How can anyone tell what she said? And what in the world is a WhoTF?

Sinsazia wrote:
OI...you've got the shovel and the handle just keeps getting warmer.

Alex C wrote:
What do you mean?

Wow.  You really ARE completely oblivious to how badly the things you say come across, aren't you?
You're perpetuating the stereotype of the vapid arrogant "pretty girl" who thinks thw world should revolve around her because she's sort of good looking.

Bob Randall Photography wrote:

Vito wrote:
I read what studio36uk wrote 5 times and I don't understand it. How can anyone tell what she said? And what in the world is a WhoTF?

WhoTF= Who the F!@#

TXPhotog wrote:
Of course that is true.  So, again, why would you deliberately make a post that is designed to make photographers not like you?  It doesn't seem sensible to post in one area trying to attract photographers, and in another to drive them away . . . .

Alex C wrote:
I didn't make this posting to get advice on networking.

No, but you obviously NEED some.
Tx's point is that things like this make you look bad & create a bad reputation that will cause people to not want to work with you.

Sinsazia wrote:
OKay..this keeps getting better and better.  Please keep up the snide comments in response to great advice being thrown your way..I must shower and will definitely be back to see the rest of the train wreck.

OOOH! I can't wait!

Sinsazia, you are probably the the model posting here in this thread that I would NOT work with due your your sarcastic attitude.

Alex C wrote:
Iona, the only thing you see here is what I have posted. If you ask all of the photographers that I have worked with they will say they had a fun time, and that I know how to work the camera. I'm sure you won't have time to do that though. Again, I was not posting to get advice on how to network myself, I was simply stating my feelings and concerns. And I am a very blunt person.

There's blunt, and then there's rude & arrogant.  Calling yourself one does not excuse the other.

TXPhotog wrote:
I'm not sure I agree.  If her market is Internet GWCs  (which seems to be true, nobody else is going to hire her from a posting on the Internet), the pictures she has seem more than adequate for the task.  On the other hand, if she wanted to do something with real photographers and real clients, what you said is exactly right.

Oh!  Wait!  That is what she says she wants to do.  Never mind . . . .

She can't be marketing to GWCs or she would do nudes.