Alex C wrote:

Yes, definitely! This was on OMP though. But either way, I would do TFP with a photographer I find highly talented. But otherwise, the others that aren't on that level think they deserve the same.

I have had this same problem with OMP travel notices.  I specifically state exactly what I am looking for, sometimes only paid assignments to help cover the cost of travel, and I get all these requests for TFP. I wouldnt mind this at all if the photographers actually had good work in their portfolio, but when all they have are crappy looking web cam shots it drives me crazy.

Alex C wrote:
I am kind of irritated. I posted a travel notice for Detroit stating that I am looking for any paid projects not involving nudity. I get back 4 replies all saying something along the lines of "I'm up for TFP to build my portfolio." Do people not think I'm worth enough to pay? Do they think I will grace their portfolios for free?

I would love to do TFP with you, what's all the fuss about. Oh yeah, bring those boxing gloves with you.

Alex C wrote:
If photographers do not like it, they don't have to work with me. It's as easy as that.

Of course that is true.  So, again, why would you deliberately make a post that is designed to make photographers not like you?  It doesn't seem sensible to post in one area trying to attract photographers, and in another to drive them away . . . .

Alex C wrote:

What do you mean?

...your hole keeps getting deeper. 

That is all.

TXPhotog wrote:

Of course that is true.  So, again, why would you deliberately make a post that is designed to make photographers not like you?  It doesn't seem sensible to post in one area trying to attract photographers, and in another to drive them away . . . .

I didn't make this posting to get advice on networking.

Alex C wrote:

I didn't make this posting to get advice on networking.

All I can say is your messin with the wrong guy. Don't get TX mad at you!

NYPHOTOGRAPHICS wrote:
Prototypical Internet model and I use that term loosely.  You will not get real photographers to pay only amateurs, beginners, and wannabe photographers who often dont have clients or money.

Sorry of this sounds harsh but you are choosing to enter a business based on the harshest criticism of you and your form based on current standards of size, and form and beauty and usually coming right down to a subjective opinion.  Seems no one on this site wants to point that out.


Stephen Eastwood
www.photographersportfolio.com
www.nyphotographics.com
www.stepheneastwood.com
17185911218

Please explain what you are saying.

Alex C wrote:

I didn't make this posting to get advice on networking.

never say no to good advice... even if you did not ask for it.

Bob Randall Photography wrote:

I would love to do TFP with you, what's all the fuss about. Oh yeah, bring those boxing gloves with you.

Thank you, you're sweet! We should do a TFP shoot when I come back to Chicago later in the week. I don't have the gloves

Erin Blair wrote:

I have had this same problem with OMP travel notices.  I specifically state exactly what I am looking for, sometimes only paid assignments to help cover the cost of travel, and I get all these requests for TFP. I wouldnt mind this at all if the photographers actually had good work in their portfolio, but when all they have are crappy looking web cam shots it drives me crazy.

Thank you Erin! You seem to understand what is going on!

Alex C wrote:
Thank you, you're sweet! We should do a TFP shoot when I come back to Chicago later in the week. I don't have the gloves

This answer just justified the TFP requests that you've been getting...

Iona Lynn wrote:
well then I suppose all the people who read this pretty little posting will be filling your in box with requests for paid work.

Listen to TX he knows what he is talking about.
So do some of the rest of us.
What is more important than those of us who are in this thread are those who are not.


I know for a fact that there is a photographer looking for a tan midriff model to hire soon for a paid print job hight doesn't matter but your attitude does.......

Iona, the only thing you see here is what I have posted. If you ask all of the photographers that I have worked with they will say they had a fun time, and that I know how to work the camera. I'm sure you won't have time to do that though. Again, I was not posting to get advice on how to network myself, I was simply stating my feelings and concerns. And I am a very blunt person.

D. Brian Nelson wrote:
Lemme weigh in here.  I understand and sympathize.  Models who say "NO NUDES" and "ONLY FOR MONEY" will get approached by hopeful photographers anyway.  The shooters don't mean to offend you, they just want to see if you judge their work good enough that you will throw off the clothes and maybe even buy them dinner if they'll photograph you.

They (we) do this because sometimes it really does work. 

But another thing that works, particularly for models, is if they contact photographers directly first and instead of saying "I'M SO HOT YOU GOTTA PAY ME AND I'M STILL KEEPING MY CLOTHES ON," something more like, "I'm traveling to your area and really like your work and would love to be in some of it, but my financial situation is such that I can't afford to make the trip on my own."

You (models) should think about doing this approach because it really does work sometimes.

My own policy is that I don't pay models except with images, but I've broken that soft rule and paid models sometimes, based more on their need than on their desirability.

In truth, because I shoot film and have a high effort process, and because I make money elsewhere, paying models would certainly reduce my effort, but for me the most desirable quality a model can have is her desire to be in my photographs.  And that desire is filtered by my TFS policy.  Once convinced of that desire, paying the model or flying her all over the world or whatever, is to me an afterthought.

-Don

great advice!

Jay Bowman wrote:

This answer just justified the TFP requests that you've been getting...

Haha!! Yeah.... good one... not
If I wish to do TFP when I have time and have no paid shoots going on that is my decision

Fluffytek wrote:
If I have a commercial project I will look at the models I have worked with, both TFP and paid, before I choose to pay some unknown who may or may not be up to the job. I consider TFP be to be tests.

So if you travel to my area and will only shoot for cash then I wont be shooting you.

I only pay models who will fulful a paying job or are so goddam good that I have to pay and I think they will elevate my port.

Well, I may not be good enough for you, but for many other great photographers, I am.

Sinsazia wrote:
OKay..this keeps getting better and better.  Please keep up the snide comments in response to great advice being thrown your way..I must shower and will definitely be back to see the rest of the train wreck.

OOOH! I can't wait!

Glad you like it

Alex C wrote:
Haha!! Yeah.... good one... not
If I wish to do TFP when I have time and have no paid shoots going on that is my decision

You miss my point. 


In this very thread you've said that you're only seeking paid work and that you don't have the time to go TFPing with everyone who deserves it but will consider things on a case by case basis.

And in this very thread (titled Not looking for TFP ironically) you received an offer to shoot.  On a trade basis.  And you said 'yes.' 



That will be the validation of anyone who asks you for a trade in spite of your requests for pay.

Alex C wrote:
If I wish to do TFP when I have time and have no paid shoots going on that is my decision

Of course it is.  And as Bob just demonstrated so nimbly, asking you about TFP can work.  So other photographers might reasonably think to themselves, "If she has time and has no paid shoots going on, perhaps she will make the decision to shoot TFP instead."  You gave them every reason to believe just that.

But they would be wrong of course.  By asking a question that you now admit is reasonable, all they would be doing is providing fodder for you to come on the forum and complain.

No, I don't suppose you did ask for advice about marketing yourself.  But perhaps you should.

Sinsazia wrote:

great advice!

Brian, thank you for the advice. This hasn't worked for me before (a number of times). I contacted photographers after they expressed their desire to work with me and talked about the payment and terms of the shoot (i.e. no nudity, no implied nudity, just enough to cover the trip expenses) and after numerous communications, it always got down to "Oh... well because I am paying for your airplane ticket you still have to give me some nudes." Ofcourse, you all know how pissed off I got.

Jay Bowman wrote:

You miss my point. 


In this very thread you've said that you're only seeking paid work and that you don't have the time to go TFPing with everyone who deserves it but will consider things on a case by case basis.

And in this very thread (titled Not looking for TFP ironically) you received an offer to shoot.  On a trade basis.  And you said 'yes.' 



That will be the validation of anyone who asks you for a trade in spite of your requests for pay.

In reality, it is not a validation. I did not approach bob indirectly and said "Hey, I am looking for paid work"

Alex C wrote:
In reality, it is not a validation. I did not approach bob indirectly and said "Hey, I am looking for paid work"

In reality...


...it will be used as validation!


TX explained it well, too.

Alex C wrote:
the only thing you see here is what I have posted. If you ask all of the photographers that I have worked with . . . .

Potential clients won't ask all the photographers that you have worked with.  As you point out, all they see here is what you have posted.  And that is what they will base hiring decisions on.

You seem to be under the illusion that there is this vast Internet Photographer market for 5'2" non-nude models that people will pay to come to shoot with them.  Here's a shocker:  there is very little of it.  Those who pay to bring a model to town usually want nudes.  When you get used to that fact perhaps you won't feel the need to tell everyone else about it.

Jay Bowman wrote:
In reality...


...it will be used as validation!


TX explained it well, too.

Hold on...she'll be with us in a minute. She's changing her avatar (third time this morning)

Vito wrote:

Hold on...she'll be with us in a minute. She's changing her avatar (third time this morning)

Vito, actually, I was taking a look at your port... Not liking what I see....

Alex C wrote:
Vito, actually, I was taking a look at your port... Not liking what I see....

Whoops....don't care.
Now, the personal attacks that have nothing to do with this thread start.

ADDED:

I'm just curious as to why you've changed your avatar 3 times in the last few hours? That's all

Alex C wrote:
I'm sorry... I wouldn't pay a photographer for my next shoots. An MUA, maybe (if I get the money).

What she's saying is, maybe you should.

Vito wrote:

What she's saying is, maybe you should.

Vito, get back to counting how may times I change my avatar. I can read, I answered back to what she posted you don't have to restate what she previously said.

Alex C wrote:
In my current MM port, I was paid for 7 of the shots.

The money earned you most likely spent, but the images still remain.....

.....unfortunately for you

Nerlande wrote:
Have you been paid for all the shots taken in your portfolio? Be honest.

I certainly hope so.  That would be the only valid reason I can think of for having them.

Nerlande wrote:
Hone in on who can devevlop your portfolio into something worth looking at. Take that TFP and like it!

I'm not sure I agree.  If her market is Internet GWCs  (which seems to be true, nobody else is going to hire her from a posting on the Internet), the pictures she has seem more than adequate for the task.  On the other hand, if she wanted to do something with real photographers and real clients, what you said is exactly right.

Oh!  Wait!  That is what she says she wants to do.  Never mind . . . .