Photographer
udor
Posts: 25255
New York, New York, US
I think there are a lot of interesting, yet disturbing(!), posts on this subject matter.
This utter ignorance and overly romantizising of teenager life (not CHILDREN, which are for me pre-puberty and during the early stages of puberty!), disregarding their own sexuality and desire to discover their own bodies and those of the other sex (gender) is unnatural, immoral, medieval and even DANGEREOUS!
Instead of letting the teenager, who is sexually maturing, or already matured, to go it's NATURAL way of self discovery and having an open conversation, especially as a parent, the most common notion seems to be that keeping the teenager away from sexuality, but then at age 18, independent from sexual or mental maturity, letting that person go wild... with no chance of understanding and prior experiences.
That..., in my opinion is dangerous and could lead to some trauma.
When I was 13, my father pulled me aside, and told me that "once the body is mature, no matter what the parents say... the youth will find a way to sexually explore..."
The better solution was that we talked about sexuality, he bought condoms for me, and made sure that I was acting responsible.
This philosophy is in my opinion the most honest and most responsible way of dealing with teen sexuality...
Humans can learn from others, but unless something is being experienced...
We can direct it responsibly, or deny that it exists... it's our choice.
Oh, I am aware that I will draw very negative responses, maybe in email from fundamental religious people, but, hey, the latest scientific news show that Earth is not a flat disc..., we have electricity and the stars are not suspended on layered spheres above us.
Greetings
Udo
Model
leila
Posts: 209
i appreciate some of you are trying to give my guidance and thank you  but the rest are just trying to put me down and make me look small.. and like simone said..i can get a job, move out, get married and have kids..i've done half those things and yet im still considered a child by some? tried to see it from their point of view but just didnt make sense to me..sorry changed my avatar for those who didnt like it..lol and if you dont like this one i give up!
Photographer
udor
Posts: 25255
New York, New York, US
x-leila-x wrote:
great..im a ''child''  thats so frustrating It's weird, but in Europe, you wouldn't be considered a "child", underage, yes (depends for what legal purpose), but you would be seen as a teenager, or young adult.
Children are seen as young people before they enter their puberty and develop secondary sexual markers. More than half way through... you are not seen as a child.
The "child" classification in the US, is the one of a puritan legislature. They call you a child... child... child... and then SUDDENLY, the day you hit age 18, you are mature and an adult. Disregarding anything about your personality.
I think it's irresponsible, but convenient for those who have a conservative black & white worldview, to put an 8 years old in the same classification ("child") with a young adult age 17 1/2.
I will never understand, well, I do understand the thinking of certain groups behind it, how educated people refuse to see any difference between the two.
Maturity is a VERY individual process!
Oh... and I am by far not a "child molester", I prefer women that are at least 25 or older..., but I have been an active teenager myself... in a land, far far away...
Photographer
Glamour Boulevard
Posts: 8628
Sacramento, California, US
changed my avatar for those who didnt like it..lol and if you dont like this one i give up! Don`t change it for anyone but yourself. Do not let others tell you what you should choose as your avatar or anything else.
Photographer
bastardartist
Posts: 287
Los Angeles, California, US
nowadays they skip barbie and go straight for makeup and skimpy clothes. i blame reality tv and shit like that!
Model
leila
Posts: 209
yea well they were bitching about how i should put more clothes on so i thought maybe it wasnt appropriate
Photographer
Ty Simone
Posts: 2885
Edison, New Jersey, US
Leila,
you will find that there are really only to types of people in life.
Those that live life, and those that exist.
Never Ever Ever just exist.
As I stated Earlier, You are a beautiful young lady, and you do have some rather sexy images in your portfolio.
SEXY - at SIXTEEN.
and despite what the nay sayers say (Nay) I think not only should they stay, But that you should place them there with pride.
If they are afraid of those inner feelings, there is nothing you will ever do about it.
they will be that way their entire life, as they go through it existing, and not living.
You on the other hand are welcome to join those of us, Like myself and Udo here, that prefer to live life and to experience life to the fullest (without violating the law)
You go girl!
Model
leila
Posts: 209
Marco Romano wrote:
nowadays they skip barbie and go straight for makeup and skimpy clothes. i blame reality tv and shit like that! ..and parents
Photographer
B R E E D L O V E
Posts: 8022
Forks, Washington, US
Glamour Boulevard wrote:
In some Europian countries,such as germany(unless it has recently changed) anyone with the minimum age of 16 can even be in a porn video performing actual sex scenes as long as the parent has signed the release form. I was not aware of this until I was talking with a model from Germany involved in the adult industry there a couple of years ago. I had seen a few German adult videos and I often wondered how old the girls actually were. That explains a lot. We know what happens to the majority of porn stars and it isn't pretty, now some want to inflict this on minors !.
Model
leila
Posts: 209
Ty Simone wrote:
Leila,
you will find that there are really only to types of people in life.
Those that live life, and those that exist.
Never Ever Ever just exist.
As I stated Earlier, You are a beautiful young lady, and you do have some rather sexy images in your portfolio.
SEXY - at SIXTEEN.
and despite what the nay sayers say (Nay) I think not only should they stay, But that you should place them there with pride.
If they are afraid of those inner feelings, there is nothing you will ever do about it.
they will be that way their entire life, as they go through it existing, and not living.
You on the other hand are welcome to join those of us, Like myself and Udo here, that prefer to live life and to experience life to the fullest (without violating the law)
You go girl! your wicked i feel better now..for a while back there i thought i was on my own..
i think some people are just too closed minded and scared of what everyone else thinks and to be honest i cant be arsed with that
..lol so bollocks my pics coming back!
Photographer
Ty Simone
Posts: 2885
Edison, New Jersey, US
x-leila-x wrote:
yea well they were bitching about how i should put more clothes on so i thought maybe it wasnt appropriate Bah!
Go back to the old one and ignore them!
Are any of them guiding your Modeling career?
Are any of them your spiritual leader?
Are any of them your parents?
Do any of them really give a rats backside about you, other than for their own selfish interests?
I think not!
You are a unique individual.
You are a mature young lady that has not yet reached the age in which you can enter into a legal contract.
you are NOT a child. and you ARE capable of making informed decisions that do affect your life. Hence your parents allow you to leave your house.....
Do not let the naysayers rule your life!
There will always be some IDIOT that does not like some aspect of something.
And they will scream and holler about it until other IDIOTS jump on the band wagon.
People like us though, we tend to ignore them, or acquiesce to them, and before we know it, we are living in Fundamentalist America....
Model
leila
Posts: 209
you say it so good..now why couldnt i
Photographer
Monsante Bey
Posts: 2111
Columbus, Georgia, US
Torrence Williams wrote:
Anyone who comes to you and tells you, you are not a child in their eyes....Be wary of them... Be QUITE leery of them!!!
Photographer
Webspinner Studios
Posts: 6964
Ann Arbor, Michigan, US
Marco Romano wrote:
nowadays they skip barbie and go straight for makeup and skimpy clothes. i blame reality tv and shit like that! I did that slutty dressing up thing when I was a freshman in highschool about 20 years ago...so it isn't new. My father even said that he was really disturbed by how I wanted to dress until he noticed that the only other girls dressing like that were other freshman/sophmores, and that once they were seniors, the vast majority of girls were dressed 'normally' again.
Model
Samantha Grace
Posts: 3228
Los Angeles, California, US
Terry Breedlove wrote:
Because most of the fashion designers are gay and they like that little boy straight and narrow look. If it was up to the average male the fashion models would be look like .... well playboy models. I personal would think that would be much sexier. Plus, there would be way prettier models. Not to be mean but I think most fashion models are ugly. I personally think clothes look better on curves. But maybe I am just envious because I could never be a high fashion model. Because I am too short, fat, with to big of a butt, and my beast are too big. Oh, wait I look like a full grown women. Not 16, I can't find the boy look attractive. I see are little girls. Not sexy at all! But even at 12 I had mega curves and look 18. It's just the figure I was born with. But My point is you will never win. You will always find some minor being photographed in a sexy way. I personally see nothing wrong with it. Most 16 year olds are sexually active. And it has always been that way.
Model
leila
Posts: 209
yea i used to do it...go out with 2 inches of make-up on thinking i looked good!
Photographer
Webspinner Studios
Posts: 6964
Ann Arbor, Michigan, US
I do have one other thing to say...it really creeps me out that whenever I see a thread about minors, three male mm members always jump on these threads. I know who they are...and probably just about everyone else notices as well.
Isn't it obvious to you guys that if you can't help but be attracted to this topic obsessively you may have some unhealthy issues about your attraction to young girls?
Photographer
Torrence Williams
Posts: 247
Dallas, Texas, US
x-leila-x wrote:
i appreciate some of you are trying to give my guidance and thank you but the rest are just trying to put me down and make me look small..
and like simone said..i can get a job, move out, get married and have kids..i've done half those things and yet im still considered a child by some? tried to see it from their point of view but just didnt make sense to me..sorry
changed my avatar for those who didnt like it..lol and if you dont like this one i give up! You are experiencing what a typical teenager goes through.. Trying to find themselves. You are Child as being defined by laws and statutes, but this has no bearing on your maturity. You can be 30 and immature and childish. Or you can be a mature 16 yr old. You will never be able to satisfy everybody, so don't try...You are off to a good start, photographically speaking, so just just keep at it.. If you are doing this alone, then just remember to keep it middle of the road, until you have mastered the game...
Photographer
Ty Simone
Posts: 2885
Edison, New Jersey, US
Krista Muller wrote:
I do have one other thing to say...it really creeps me out that whenever I see a thread about minors, three male mm members always jump on these threads. I know who they are...and probably just about everyone else notices as well.
Isn't it obvious to you guys that if you can't help but be attracted to this topic obsessively you may have some unhealthy issues about your attraction to young girls? Or it could be that we are tired of the puritans in this country trying to inflict their incessant moral values on us as a society.....
Of course it could also be that we appreciate the fact that young ladies, such as leila, are more than mere children, as some of you seem to think she is.
In case you missed your history lessons....
At Age 6 Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart played for an Empress in Munich
At age 13 he wrote Bastien und Bastienne, which was commissioned by Dr. Franz Anton Mesmer.
George Washington At 16 helped survey Shenandoah lands for Thomas, Lord Fairfax
Joan of Arc - 17 years old (12 when she heard the voice of God.)
I could name a ton more, but people complain about word count.....
We are talking 16 not 8!
There is a big difference!
Prepubescent teen being sexy = perverted
Post pubescent teen being sexy = normal.
Ask ANY psychologist!
ANY!
It is you that is suffering from the neurosis
The fact of the matter is, we are NOT puritans.
The world is not full of puritans.
Therefore, You are the ones in the minority trying to press your views on the majority.
You suppress something and make it taboo, and the kids will want it more.
And instead of insinuating, Why not say what it is you truly want to say so I can slam you and then sue you for Slander....
Go On. Stand up for what you believe in and say it!
I did not think so.
Photographer
American Glamour
Posts: 38813
Detroit, Michigan, US
Krista Muller wrote:
I do have one other thing to say...it really creeps me out that whenever I see a thread about minors, three male mm members always jump on these threads. I know who they are...and probably just about everyone else notices as well.
Isn't it obvious to you guys that if you can't help but be attracted to this topic obsessively you may have some unhealthy issues about your attraction to young girls? Are you trying to make a point here? Interesting comment from someone bold enough to say it!
Photographer
udor
Posts: 25255
New York, New York, US
Krista Muller wrote:
I do have one other thing to say...it really creeps me out that whenever I see a thread about minors, three male mm members always jump on these threads. I know who they are...and probably just about everyone else notices as well. Hmmm, yeah... but aren't there the same members on the other side of the spectrum that are chiming in all the time too?
Photographer
Ty Simone
Posts: 2885
Edison, New Jersey, US
UdoR wrote:
Hmmm, yeah... but aren't there the same members on the other side of the spectrum that are chiming in all the time too? And you would think they could keep it in one thread......
Photographer
Monsante Bey
Posts: 2111
Columbus, Georgia, US
UdoR wrote:
Hmmm, yeah... but aren't there the same members on the other side of the spectrum that are chiming in all the time too? Chiming in is one thing, but fighting tooth and nail to see a minor (12-17) naked or near naked is another animal in itself, and downright scary.
Photographer
udor
Posts: 25255
New York, New York, US
Monsante Bey wrote:
Chiming in is one thing, but fighting tooth and nail to see a minor (12-17) naked or near naked is another animal in itself, and downright scary. Hmmm?
I have not seen one single post where anybody is "fighting tooth and nail to see a minor (12-17) naked".
Photographer
Monsante Bey
Posts: 2111
Columbus, Georgia, US
UdoR wrote:
Hmmm?
I have not seen one single post where anybody is "fighting tooth and nail to see a minor (12-17) naked". Ok.
Photographer
B R E E D L O V E
Posts: 8022
Forks, Washington, US
Tell me guys do you have any age limits to shooting sexy nudes? Would you be comfortable shooting a 12 year old for Hustler or Playboy ? Because if you do then get off your european high horse and join us religious nuts down here in redstate country. If you don't then please get some help. Now I am somewhere between the two points I believe as a photographer we should be able to shoot nudes at any age as long as the work is relevant to the age. For example I think Sally Manns work is amazing but I would never want to see a child that age in Playboy.
Photographer
lll
Posts: 12295
Seattle, Washington, US
Agreed with Udo (top post on this page), totally.
Wouldn't say more.
Photographer
Glamour Boulevard
Posts: 8628
Sacramento, California, US
Terry Breedlove wrote:
Tell me guys do you have any age limits to shooting sexy nudes? Would you be comfortable shooting a 12 year old for Hustler or Playboy ? This brings to mind the Playboy photographer who shot Brooke Shields when she was a little girl, completely nude, in fact soaking wet and seductive looking. But that is an old thread.I am not going to rehash the what is illegal and what is not debate though,lol.
Photographer
udor
Posts: 25255
New York, New York, US
Terry Breedlove wrote:
Tell me guys do you have any age limits to shooting sexy nudes? I don't shoot nudes!
Photographer
udor
Posts: 25255
New York, New York, US
lll wrote:
Agreed with Udo (top post on this page), totally.
Wouldn't say more. Must be the diet! 
Photographer
B R E E D L O V E
Posts: 8022
Forks, Washington, US
We are not talking about the rights of teen agers to grow and learn about their own sexuality. Or how best to parent them, I agree with UDo about talking to your kids I did. However what we are talking about is grown men and women taking advantage of them and having some common sense laws in place to protect the innocent. Sure some will mature at a faster rate but it is better to err on the side of safety for those who don't. What is the rush anyway there are plenty of attractive and mature women wanting to model for us.
Photographer
B R E E D L O V E
Posts: 8022
Forks, Washington, US
UdoR wrote:
I don't shoot nudes! Can you formulate an opinion on something other than what you prefer to shoot ? Because if your going to open this can of worms up then your going to be fighting for those who do.
Photographer
Josue Pena
Posts: 595
Los Angeles, California, US
lll wrote:
Ever read Vogue? W? Cosmopolitan?
Lots of the girls in there are in their teens. What's the problem now? agree
Photographer
udor
Posts: 25255
New York, New York, US
Terry Breedlove wrote:
Can you formulate an opinion on something other than what you prefer to shoot ? Because if your going to open this can of worms up then your going to be fighting for those who do. Well, my opinion is tainted by my experience in a different kind of society, with a different view on nudity, where the naked body is not equivalent to a sexual object by default.
I don't believe that parents, who take snapshots of their kids in the bathtub should get arrested and charged with child pornography, unless it is clearly taken for that purpose.
I believe that teenagers (read my distinction between teenagers and children above) have the right to explore their own sexuality and express it in ways how they feel comfortable.
I also believe that teenagers should be protected from people that try to exploit them, where "exploitation" is meant in a sense that takes advantage of the inexperienced teenager, criminally avoiding parents consent, and trying to have monetary gain from it.
Would I shoot a teenager for Playboy? That fully depends what is legal in the country I am living in and conducting business.
If the minimum age for posing nudes is accepted at age 16, I'll shoot the 16 years old, if I also see that this teenager is mentally mature, not being coerced into doing it (stage-moms!) etc.
Because I see where this country is regressing to, including our legislature, I am rather overly careful.
Now, two years ago, I was shooting two sisters for their portfolios, one daughter was 13, the other one 17. Beautiful girls, very well developed and I had a MUA, stylist and both of their parents attending the shoot.
The 13 years old, well, if you saw her from behind... you would NEVER guessed that this girl was not 21 for another 8 years...
She wanted to wear a laced thong for the shoot, with full permission and understanding of their parents, where the mother was selecting that lingerie together.
I refused to shoot the girl this way, although knowing them, knowing that both girls had boyfriends and very mature.
The mother couldn't undestand that I didn't want to shoot her youngest daughter wearing lingerie, and the daughter was rather disappointed.
Oh, the family is from the Caribbean, not Europe, but obviously also from a cultural background, where nudity and "sexyness" is okay.
Hope this clarifies a little bit my P.O.V.
Photographer
B R E E D L O V E
Posts: 8022
Forks, Washington, US
Well said thank you and I think I agree. I had a mom come into the studio once with her 12 year old. The mom was asking about her girl modeling and i gave her some agencies to go talk to and then about a week later she came back with the girl this time. Well the mom was looking at my nude work the week before and said this is the type of modeling she wanted her daughter to do and asked if i would work with her of course I said no and she protested but why not I am the mom and I will be there. I simply said no I can't and wont do it and left it at that. Owning a studio down town with a store front window means lots of people coming in and I have witnessed them all. I really wonder sometimes what ever became of that little girl and her mom.
Photographer
B R E E D L O V E
Posts: 8022
Forks, Washington, US
LOL oh my god that was funny
Model
io
Posts: 2353
New York, New York, US
x-leila-x wrote:
great..im a ''child'' thats so frustrating No, you're a young woman...I just can't consider a 16-year-old a child. Sorry.
|
but the rest are just trying to put me down and make me look small.. 
thats so frustrating