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boyfriends and photoshoots!
wishingtreephotography wrote: whoa, you haven't been over on the Thread. Kelli is being treated like a princess here! Nov 09 06 12:01 pm Link I vote for unzoning the Gina Lee thread! The single greatest and most difinitive example of why not to allow escorts ever! I'll admit it... I'm delecate and would rather not be punched in the face by the "escort". I prefer to enjoy photoshoots, not have to fight it out. Nov 09 06 12:04 pm Link Kelli Charmae wrote: Even when the boyfriend is cool, I don't feel comfortable. Maybe it is my own insecurities at being judged. Of maybe because I'm the jealous type with my girl, and put that on others. Nevertheless, just as it depends on what kind of person the boyfriend is, it also depends on what kind of person the photographer is. Nov 09 06 12:07 pm Link Turning the tables - last week I shot a male model (who's girl friend I had shot before). This was the guy's first shoot. Funny, but his girlfriend wasn't feeling well and it made him 1/2 late for the shoot (they showed up just as I was about to leave). Long-story, she basically stayed out of the way and played with her gameboy, but once in a while she'd look up and make fun of him or his jeans ... and he's lose the pose he was so desperately trying to capture. But they're both totally nice people, so it was good fun. We got some good stuff and he now has a MM site with some professional photos up. Cheers, Tim Nov 09 06 12:11 pm Link HarveyT wrote: Good point. I've come to realize that with younger models 18-21ish, that the boyfriend doesn't really tell the girlfriend how pretty she is as a matter of course in their daily relationship. Most likely the rare emotion he shows her is his erection when she's just getting out of the shower or changing clothes. It's a young guy macho thing, I suspect. So, the girlfriend becomes a model to validate her beauty and to deal with her insecurities of not being told by her b.f. she's beautiful - so she drags him to a shoot to 'show' him that she's not only beautiful, but she has a nice body too (by stripping down to her tiniest thong and striking a pose in front of another guy). I believe this may result in a lot of no-shows further down the line once the b.f. starts appreciating the g.f. and the g.f. forgets about modeling and settles on cuddling, her beauty insecurities now dealt with (until the next b.f. comes along). /tim Nov 09 06 12:15 pm Link Kelli Charmae wrote: I don't mind...it depends on the boyfriend and wheter his presence interferes with the shoot or not. I had one shoot where the model would look at her boyfriend for approval whenever I would suggest a shot..didn't like working with her much; we still got some good pictures but I could tell his presence was interfering with the flow of the session. Other times I've had boyfriends who remained low key, stayed out of the way and even helped out as assitants..it all depends on the boyfriend and their(model and boyfriend's relationship) Nov 09 06 12:22 pm Link Well, my boyfriend helps me organize everything with my modeling (keeping me up to date on what events I'm working, photoshoots, etc.). He is VERY involved in what I do. In fact, he has been on almost every photoshoot I have ever done and I would not feel comfortable otherwise. Luckily he is not the jealous type and realizes that modeling is a business - not a dating service. During most shoots he stays out of the room, but the door ALWAYS remains open. I haven't come across a photographer that has had a problem with this. To be honest, if the photographer did have a problem with it, I wouldn't work with him/her - regardless of their caliber in the industry. People need to remember that not all models are uneducated when it comes to what is professionalism and what is not. A professional model knows not to bring someone into the situation that is going to cause unnecessary drama. If they do, it goes to show their immaturity and true intentions in the business. Nov 09 06 12:30 pm Link Ashley N Spicer wrote: Sooner or later, you will find someone who has problem with that. Maybe the question for you is how serious are you about being a model if you don't feel comfortable without your BF's presence in photoshoots? Unless you only do semi-pro shoots, most shoots take place during workday and it would mean your BF has to take day off. . . Now if your BF is very rich or jobless, then that is not a problem. Nov 09 06 12:44 pm Link Having the boyfriend at the shoots completely ruins the fantasy for alot of people, U wanna be a fantasy killer!?! joking;) Nov 09 06 12:53 pm Link This topic is simple. (I have been shooting professionally for 10 years) Everyone has a "Alpha"..the person they relate to the most. This is the person in the room that you have the most "connection" with and would preffer to interact with the most. A person's "Alpha" in the long term could be a boyfriend, girlfriend, or even a mom if the model is a young girl. In a photoshoot the photographer becomes the "Alpha" for the duration of the shoot (Temporarily the "Alpha")... Bringing your boyfriend is bringing your "Alpha" from home (Your longterm "Alpha"). this creates a situation where the photographer CANNOT be the "Alpha", and prevents him from doing his job (Interacting with the model and pulling character and expression out of his subject). It also prevents the model from "Opening up" and being as free and expressive as she should be if she intends to forward her modeling career. The model will hold back because thier longterm "Alpha" sees them differently than the way they look/ act in a photoshoot, and hence holding the model back from "exuding".. Bring a supportive friend or cousin or even a brother or sister that likes to see you "Act" Nov 09 06 12:58 pm Link The more the merrier! He can hold stuff and carry gear. I'm easy to get along with. Nov 09 06 01:23 pm Link I'm lucky I date a photographer who isn't psycho. On the other end of the spectrum, I'm present on his shoots sometimes, usually helping out. The women are all hot, but I never get jealous. Actually, it's more "MAN I wish I had that ass" lol. I've made a lot of friends that way and i think knowing the photographer is involved in a relationship etc. makes it less creepy for some models. Jealous boyfriends are a clear sign of "I AM INSECURE"  Jealousy in general is insecurity making it's presence known!!Nov 09 06 03:12 pm Link LHC Photography wrote: For you to question my professionalism is ridiculous and anyone that I have worked with will gladly tell you and anyone else differently. Regardless, we are both students so workdays do not come into play there (I'm lucky). Modeling is my full time job. As I stated, my boyfriend helps me with running my website, organizing my appointments, and has even gone as far as to help the photographer with lighting on outdoor shoots. If any photographer has a problem with that, they will not be working with me.. plain and simple. Nov 09 06 09:03 pm Link It's all been said!!! Go to the other thread!!! Here, this is just some of the good stuff from page 323: Marina M wrote: To photographers who say they don't understand why a model would want an escort: Note to the reader: don't you get the feeling this is going to be rich? Twenty-something Marina is going to lay it out for all the photographers to don't understand. Let's see how she does... Marina M wrote: Not everyone you meet online is who they claim to be! Some psycho could easily create a photog account by stealing any photos online and reposting them as thier own. This is certainly possible. Easy to set up an account with stolen photos. And I guess you're all worried and shit that you wouldn't be smart enough to figure out that it was a fraud. Because you're not smart enough to check and see who he has worked with. Because you're not smart enough to see if he's been in business for awhile since it's hard to keep a site up with stolen photos for very long. Because you're not smart enough to have a pre-shoot meeting with him and get a sense of the person and location. Because you're not smart enough to make sure the credits match the image. I could go on and on, but you're not smart enough to figure this kind of stuff out or you're too lazy too and so you want to take an escort. Because you're not smart enough to understand that if a photographer wants to murder you, he'll take out the escort first and have his 2-for-1 special - the Ron Goldman special. And you wont be human enough to understand that the escorts fate was all your fault. Marina M wrote: It is NOT SAFE for a woman to meet a strange photographer alone. Particularly when it often includes being alone with the photographer in a studio/home/car. On what basis do you say this? What is your evidence? You have none. You're just a fearmonger. Bouncing around whining about how scary the world is without engaging in any critical thinking and assessing the situation. You're pathetic in that you just try and scare other models. You don't think women are smart enough to engage in due diligence just because you're not. That makes you anti-woman. You're a detriment to your gender. Marina M wrote: Secondly, I have had shoots organized by top modeling agency in LA (Wilhelmina), gone to meet the photographer and been verbally abused. I was 16 years old and met this guy in a trashy motel room. alone. The photographer obviously had issues and I feared he would actually attack me at some points in the shoot. You were verbally abused. Boo hoo. I've been saying you "weren't smart enough" to do many things. Basically I think you're dumb. Here's the definitive proof that you're dumb ... as a 16 year old you went to a trashy motel room ALONE. That is sooo stupid! Don't you see how this is really shockingly stupid? But let's not stop there... once there, by your own admission, you were fearful he would attack you throughout the shoot ... but you stayed. Fearful that you'ld be attacked and you just continued shooting. How retarded is that Marina? You are an example to all models out there of how to create a dangerous situation. Your conduct as a model is a literal workshop on how to exercise bad judgment and do stupid things. Marina M wrote: Get it now?! Oh we get it alright. You're an idiot and you're full of shit. Don't take my word for it ... let's measure and see ... Here's some more from page 322: Addie Juniper wrote: I'm sick of having to turn down shoot offers due to some photographers not allowing me to bring someone. I simply don't go to shoots alone. It's not safe. They say my escort will be a "distraction", but he's not. He just sits and reads a book and is there for my safety. Some say it "gets in the way of their art" or fear that my escort will "try to be the director". These are all very annoying claims! Can someone explain to me why photographers insist on being alone with me? Addie, though I've always had NO problem with a model brining an escort, over the past two years I've learned some things, and I'm beginning to understand why many of the more advanced photographers will not accept escorts into the studio during the shoot. There are many reasons, but let me ask you this first: Would you allow a man to bring his mother along on a first date? Wouldn't you think that's a little absurd? Yes, I know it isn't a date, but think for a second about what artists are doing when they work with you. First, you meet them. Then you talk a little bit, and generally there is a little explanation by the artist as what they would like you to do or think about next or during the shoot. You get changed, maybe. The artist starts working with you (possibly after a little chit chat). You would probably have to sign a release and show an ID to be photographed with it. Then the "work" starts. If it's a nude shoot, you would feel uncomfortable with more than a couple of other people who you don't know in the room, especially if you haven't been introduced. The artist will often talk with you to see what you like or what you prefer about one thing or another. They will try to get a little more specific with direction after a little while, testing (subconsciously in many cases) the way you take direction. They gradually get to know you better. They get to know what you can do. They learn a little about your limits (how you are willing to pose and how flexible you are). Eventually, the artist knows you much better than when you first got there. Isn't a date similar? When a date is over, doesn't the person you had the first date with know you a bit better? Don't you normally know them a bit better? Now, imagine if the person you dated had come with an "escort" who was there to make sure you didn't do anything wrong. How open would you have been on that date? Would you have felt more comfortable with that "escort" eyeing you the whole time? Now are you starting to get the picture? Photographers are often, by nature, shy people. Artists in general are often shy, and can be easily intimidated. They, like anyone else, don't take kindly to being accused of being "shady" or potentially "dangerous" to you. I KNOW that I feel more comfortable when I can feel confident that what I'm saying to someone is not being "overheard" by someone else. I feel more comfortable when I am in a one-on-one interaction with someone I'm working with without someone "looking over my shoulder" all the time (or even part of the time). An escort is the odd-man-out. They are the third person in the old, "two's company, three's a crowd" scenario. I have a tendency to "worry" about people who I am ignoring. I know that the escort understands that they are there to watch, and that I will be ignoring them, but I still naturally have a tendency to be distracted by the presence of the escort, and I find myself striking up conversation with the escort automatically. This is a distraction, and it prevents me from thinking and working as intimately as I would otherwise.' I don't like my creativity disrupted by distraction. There is enough distraction by the things I can't control, such as the airconditioner turning on, or a car outside honking its horn. I prefer not to have pets, mothers, or even assistants in the studio when I'm working with one model. For some reason, it seems much easier to "think" when I'm alone with a model who is posing for me. I suspect that other photographers feel the same way. Now for another significant reason why a model should not ask for an escort to accompany her/him. It's burdensome. Yes, you make yourself burdensome to the people you ask to "escort" you to a shoot. Do you ever wonder what someone thinks of your chosen career when you feel so unsafe that you have to have an escort to work? Do you ever realize that you're "putting that person out" by asking them to spend/waste their time "escorting" you to a photo shoot? You don't go to photo shoots with complete scum bags do you? I mean, you wouldn't schedule a shoot with a guy who sounded like a slime ball over the phone would you? You would? Why? And if he has what appears to be a good reputation, or at least a nicely done Web site, and you check a couple of his references (yes, you should do this), and you hear nothing but good comments about him, then why are you "worried" so much that you think an escort is necessary? You shouldn't be, because an escort is NOT necessary. More than half the models I've worked with have not had escorts. Most of the professional, experienced models I've worked with understand that it's not professional to have a "body guard" with them at a shoot. Afterall, if the model distrusts the photographer, they should not be there in the first place. There's one last, obvious matter. Everyone knows that a psychopath, which is generally the thought that comes to mind when someone mentions an "escort for safety" is a person who could kill whoever they choose. No escort is able to protect a model from a psychopath. In fact, a psychopath would have less of a problem with a model bringing an escort than a real photographer or other artist. See, a psycho would get to kill or "capture" two people when a model brings an escort along. Escorts DO get in the way sometimes, and anyone who's had a bad experience with even ONE escort would prefer to work with the models who don't bring escorts. This is sufficient explanation to understand why there are such photographers.' With all that said, please understand this: Models have bad experiences too. Like the photographers, they have to choose whether they're going to keep working like they have been, or change the way they work, and start bringing an escort to shoots. There are, believe it or not, a few professional models out there that come to shoots with an escort. I've worked with two. One always brings her husband (at least on the three shoots I did with her she did), and one always seems to bring her boyfriend. I wonder if these guys "get off" on watching their women model for me (and other photographers). Who knows. Who cares? I frankly don't. But I do care about the results I get, so I think I'm going to start requiring the "escort" to leave after the model arrives, and they get to meet me. I think that's the best way. The model knows that the escort will be back to pick her up, and I know that we can work alone together, without any unnecessary interruption or distraction. As for you - you need to decide whether you're going to be a professional, or whether you're going to act like a child. (whoa, I can hear the screaming starting already!) Think about this - Do you take an escort with you when you go to they Gynecologist? (I know some girls do.) If you're a traveling sales rep. do you take an escort with you when you visit people's offices? (Yes, I know some organizations send their sales people out in pairs.) If you entered the U.S. Army, do you think they'd let you have an "escort" go with you to boot camp!? There are some things you just shouldn't or can't do if you want to take an "escort" along. That includes working with many of the photographers out there. Read Newmodels.com - they might have a little better explanation than me. Should I paste some more in here from thread number 27501 (aka THE THREAD)? Here: https://www.modelmayhem.com/posts.php?t … 1&page=322 Now stop it!!!!! Nov 10 06 03:03 am Link I guess people canât get enough of these threads as they continue to post in them⦠Nov 10 06 03:19 am Link Kelli Charmae wrote: Welcome to the Mayhem! It's going to take you way more time than it's worth to ask "everyone" what they think ... ROFL Seriously Kelli, I happily welcome you to thsi fun website. You'll find all kinds of people here who may or may not be cool with boyfriends as escorts with many in between on it. I am one who is more than ok with it, I put them to work moving stuff, carrying yours and my bags, holding things like light reflectors, and many times I've even put the "boyfriend" in some of the pictures! Nov 10 06 05:29 am Link JM Dean wrote: I guess NOT! I posted the thread and I thought it was a good one! I am new here so I didn't search to see if the thread had already been posted in the past! This thread grabbed more attention than my other thread... Brand new 2006 model : )~ It grabbed your attention enough for you to post something on here so I guess it ISN'T a bad thread after all! Thank you and have a wonderful day! Nov 10 06 07:34 am Link Patrick Walberg wrote: thank you Patrick for your input, beautiful pic! Nov 10 06 07:39 am Link Kelli Charmae wrote: depends on how they behave Nov 10 06 07:43 am Link Kelli Charmae wrote: If it drives people to your port I guess it works. I looked Nov 10 06 07:45 am Link Kelli Charmae wrote: If they're willing to pose with you [and in my case that means naked and tied up along with you] I'm totally okay with it. Otherwise, you'd better be able to sell me a good reason why they need to be there. Nov 10 06 07:56 am Link JM Dean wrote: Thanks, I could have searched the forums to look and see if this had been posted or not but I am new and just did the easiest thing at the time : ) Nov 10 06 08:05 am Link Melvin Moten Jr wrote: LOL AHHH Nov 10 06 08:06 am Link bad ---- if it's a nude or almost nude good --- if it's classy --- hell, he will even help hold the lights Nov 10 06 08:09 am Link Melvin Moten Jr wrote: Kelli Charmae wrote: I certainly hope you don't think I was kidding when I wrote that. I'm asbolutely serious [serious enough that it's part of my profile information] -- anyone who comes to my shoot is another subject as far as I'm concerned, and if they have a problem with that, they'll be asked to leave. Nov 10 06 08:12 am Link I doubt she's quite ready to work in your style Melvin, let alone trying to tie up her (fairly dangerous-looking) boyfriend:-) For a basic strategy, why not just ask a potential photographer what his feelings are on the subject? As you can see, we vary wildly. If a "no way" makes you feel nervous, just check his references carefully, and/or bring a MUA. If your boyfriend comes along and causes any trouble (interfering with poses, demanding attention, breaking things, etc) never take him along again. Seems pretty simple:-) Nov 10 06 09:43 am Link Melvin Moten Jr wrote: Melvin Moten Jr wrote: I certainly hope you don't think I was kidding when I wrote that. I'm asbolutely serious [serious enough that it's part of my profile information] -- anyone who comes to my shoot is another subject as far as I'm concerned, and if they have a problem with that, they'll be asked to leave. So if David and I hadn't put out when we hosted you, you would have kicked us out of our own house? (insert winkie smiley face here to indicate me pushing melvins buttons) Nov 10 06 09:43 am Link Miles Chandler wrote: LOL Yea thanks a lot for your comment : ) muah~Kelli~ Nov 10 06 09:46 am Link David Maki wrote: LOL@ "help hold up the lights" Nov 10 06 09:50 am Link John Jebbia wrote: He must have meant reflector....but my bf did that with one of my nude shoots. We both learned how to use a reflector properly when I was doing a landscape nude shoot with Dennis Keim. Nov 10 06 09:53 am Link I had one BF pull out his "point & shoot" just as I was starting and it set off my strobes. I politely told him to put his camera away, which he replied "he would turn the flash off". This is where I had to be an asshole and told him turn off his camera, put in his pocket, and it doesn't come out again. Nov 10 06 09:54 am Link Kelli Charmae wrote: As a photographer, I never allow a b/f or husband (or vice versa) unless I know the couple VERY well. I have had to many occassions where the partner wants to start directing or even telling ME what I can and can NOT shoot. EH! WRONG! I've even had one try to get physically abusive towards me. So, no, no spouses. Escort, YES! Always! I encourage it however, if the escort is disrupting or a bother then I have no problem telling them to chill out or leave. Nov 10 06 10:13 am Link Well, I have some pretty sturdy stands that hold my lights, and don't need people for that. Generally, I like people and I'm kinda a more the merrier type of guy. I used to have no problem with escorts and boyfriends....until one day. While shooting, I am in a mental world of light ratios, meter readings, lens openings, camera angles, poses, expressions, and stray hairs....amongst about 25 other things. During that time, I'm paying attention to the model and to my equipment. My mind and body are both pretty busy. During one of these busy times, I lost both a lens and a 4 GB flash card. I know both were there when the shoot began because the card was in the camera and I took it out when we started. I used the lens at the beginning of the shoot, and verified that with the metadata on the images. Neither were there after the shoot was over. I called the police, they investigated. They did a great job, they called the guy and asked if he knew anything about it, over the phone. He told them "no", and two days later, they informed me that they questioned the suspect, nothing turned up, but they'd continue looking into it, and keep my loss report "on file". If something like this ever happens again, I'm sending Guido to do the questioning. Guido gets answers. While boyfriends are nice to have around for some help with some equipment, moving props, carrying the model's suitcases etc., I simply cannot afford to have stuff get...er..."lost". I also don't have time to babysit the boyfriend while shooting. I'm not exactly comfortable with saying "Sit here where I can see you and keep your hands where I can see them". I'm not going to install lockable cabinets in my studio so if I need a new card, I can take a key from my pocket and get one. My studio is a working environment, not a fortress of security. For me, one fellow ruined it for everybody. I had that happen in third grade once, some idiot did something and we all had to stay in for recess. I make rare exceptions, but fortunately, I've been at this long enough that I've developed a good reputation for being a harmless pervert and models can check my references if they aren't comfortable. If they still aren't comfortable after doing that, I tell 'em to bring a gun or mace or something, or not to come at all. dat's all folks! Nov 10 06 10:15 am Link Honestly I think a photoshoot should be a very intimate thing, not in a sexual way, but on a creative level. Both should be able to communicate with eachother freely. Safety and making my model comfortable are very important to me. But getting great images is up there too! Bring someone very supportive if you don't want to go alone. Specially if it's your first shoot with that photographer. I've had girlfriends, sisters, moms, even the biggest German Shepperd I've ever seen! But boyfriends, husbands...that can be tricky. Sometime they are supportive at the shoot, even suggesting poses. BUT...I can't ell you how many times I've gotten emails/calls from the model saying that thier boyfriend freaked out about some of the pictures/poses! So..it's up to you and how much drama you want in your life. Nov 10 06 10:30 am Link I really think that it depends on the location of the shoot... if it is at a studio you may want him to wait outside. If it is at the photographer's house or some crazy forest, the photographer should definitely understand if you want to bring someone along... Nov 10 06 10:44 am Link New World Industries wrote: OMG I can't believe that! Crazy! Nov 10 06 11:05 am Link Dark Horizon wrote: great comment : ) Nov 10 06 11:08 am Link Mikes Images - Mike #4 wrote: Dang I hate that happened to you, I guess he really wanted that stuff... I can't stand theifs, people work hard for the things that they have and someone comes up and takes it... ridiculous! Nov 10 06 11:12 am Link Michael Barrett wrote: this is true... german shepard...lol hmmm not a bad idea! Nov 10 06 11:14 am Link I NEVER,NEVER have significant others at a shoot, any more. Girlfriends...are OK.. but generally I prefer a model come alone...as close girlfriends often give models conflicting fashion advice, unless they're quite experienced with shoots....only creating unnecessary stress for us both... A significant other present, sabotages any chemistry we could create....Sure a professional model can tune out most anything, but they're rare. Two males and one gal are simply bad chemistry, some things never change... .....and a gal who brings a female lover is even worse news ...from my experience....as model doesn't know whose approval to seek. Just more stress for everyone. Nov 10 06 11:25 am Link |
