Danella L. wrote:
i think you did an excellent job at telling that to her mom!!! she just knows deep inside that the little girl she raised turned into a little slut, so she is very sensitive and over reactive about it.
she is probably furious not because you "could potentially make sexual advances to her", but because she knows that her daughter probably would hook up with you for more photos. not that you would want to anyway.
i am probably generalizing, but it seems to me that way, this one time... sorry

You said it before I did.

Guy, the mom was looking out for YOU, not so much her daughter. You being a photographer was just the "excuse" she chose. She has probably seen the other pics her daughter has taken without you, knows she's promiscuous, and that if she were to shoot alone with you her clothes would come off and she'd probably try to bang you.

Mom was looking out for you in a nondescript way. Consider yourself lucky it didn't go the way you wanted it to.

Farenell Photography wrote:
Ok, let me get this straight...

- You want to work w/ someone w/ whom you have already worked w/ & who also happens to be underage.

- Mother isn't buying into it &/or your reasons. "well because you are a photographer and it wouldnt be appropiate"

- You reply back, "Of course, I should have known.  Its a good thing all of those other guys she is having sex with arent photographers"

- Mother gets angry.

- & on here, you have the audacity to blame this on the mother?!?!

Way to blow it, man.

Not only I see nothing wrong w/ the mother's requests &/or her reasonings (from what little you gave). You never made the attempt to compromise.

Thank you! If the mother is the one contacting you, and not the girl, you are taking pictures for the Mother and not the girl. And no mother wants pictures of her 17 year old looking a slut, reguardless of whether she is or not. You don't mention whether or not you were paid or if this was TFP, but because a mother approached you for portraits, I'm assuming you were paid. You were out of line to ask and I don't blame the Mom for calling you out on it.

Jessalyn_54 wrote:
oh god I watch that show at 3am after I've gotten home from the bars and I'm wasted. that with a cup of milk and a bag of cheetos is a good end to the night

You have milk after a night of drinking? I think that would make me vomit!

Click Hamilton wrote:
eeeeewwwwwwwwww!

Chris!!

You are REALLY creepy! You better stay FAR away from any of my daughters, if I have any!!!


Click Hamilton ;-)

Shit, you wish I'd date your daughters.   You know they'd be in good hands.  Each and every single one of them.

Kinetic Photography wrote:
"Its a good thing all of those other guys she is having sex with arent photographers"  .

i think you owe her an apology, if you can't get near her without making her mad then you need to write one...

making a thread and slamming her to justify yourself is kinda pussy

Kinetic Photography wrote:
I wouldnt have said what I said to anyone else.  However, I am sick and tired of being labled a "danger" because I am a photographer.  I played semi-pro tennis and for a few years I taught tennis lessons, both private and group, to kids.  Parents never once questioned me or had any suspicions.  Its a good thing I didnt tell them I was a photographer in my spare time. 
Of course, sports coaches have NEVER been know to molest kids.....its safe to leave them alone.

No you've got a good point... You just shouldn't have said what you did to her.

You really should consider an apology for the out of line comment with an explanation of why you made it.

lotusphoto wrote:

i think you owe her an apology, if you can't get near her without making her mad then you need to write one...

making a thread and slamming her to justify yourself is kinda pussy

I didnt slam anyone and I owe no one an apology.  However, watch your name calling.

Kinetic Photography wrote:
I said "of course, I should have known.  Its a good thing all of those other guys she is having sex with arent photographers"  Well, suffice it to say the mother started yelling and blah blah blah.

Ka-boom.



You compromised your professional integrity right here. 



Find a suitable woman, copulate & conceive a baby girl, wait 17 years and then listen to someone who's supposed to be a professional make a comment on your daughters sex life.  See how you like it.

Yeah, you pissed off the mom.  You pissed her off because you were out of line.  Whether the mom's concerns about her daughters safety around you were valid or not, it wasn't your place to make a comment like that.  It just wasn't.  Learn now and learn fast to let shit like that go, because people here might laugh and pat you on the back, but they don't have to answer to your reputation.  Do you think for one second that she's not going to tell other people?  Shit, the fact that you even admitted that you have knowledge of the girl's sex life is going to give the mom the validation she needs.


Sorry, dude, you may not like being lumped in a category of rapist blahblahblah, but this one's on you...

nathan combs wrote:
2nd   it was funny i been watching "to ceach a predator" on date line it is funny never have they caught a photographer Dr.s, Rabies, teachers, people that work in the high tech industry but no photographers HMMMM

hmmm, I take it you were watching the one in Petaluma, California (with the affluent cancer doctor who called his wife and asked her to bail him out) LOL. yeah, that's where I live. YIKES.

I say mom got what was coming to her, but i never would have had the balls to say it... that's more the kind of thing i think in the back of my head after i hang up. LOL

Kinetic Photography wrote:
I wouldnt have said what I said to anyone else.  However, I am sick and tired of being labled a "danger" because I am a photographer.  I played semi-pro tennis and for a few years I taught tennis lessons, both private and group, to kids.  Parents never once questioned me or had any suspicions.  Its a good thing I didnt tell them I was a photographer in my spare time. 
Of course, sports coaches have NEVER been know to molest kids.....its safe to leave them alone.

You're reading WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY to much into what the mother said. All she said was that she thought what you wanted to do in manner that you wanted to do it was "inapproriate."

Its the same as a doctor needing to do a physical on a young girl & then asking the parent to step outside yet w/o having a nurse accompany the examination.

Kinetic Photography wrote:
Of course. I am now a rapist because some girl is having sex with some guys.  Good point.  I stated a fact to the mother.  The truth hurts sometimes.  Personally I dont care about my reputation.  I wont lose any potential models.  I have a perfect record and models know I produce great images.  I am not a professional photographer and I have never wanted to be.  This is a hobby for me.  I am often disgusted by the entire industry and the PC game they play to be cool and popular.  This industry is so vain and afraid of reputations its like junior high all over again.

You have pissed off a woman who effectively lives in the same neighborhood as you (5 minutes away), who was referred by someone else you worked with. But you don't see any of this coming back to cause you grief?

lotusphoto wrote:
"Its a good thing all of those other guys she is having sex with arent photographers"  .

you see nothing wrong with saying this to someone's mom?

Not when its in response to someone questioning my professionalism and intentions.  I actually think its necessary for parents and others to have some perspective on this matter.  I think I am helping the mother.  If she is concered about her daughter having sex then she is looking in the wrong place.  Its not me she should be worried about.  Her mom owes me an apology.

Farenell Photography wrote:
Its the same as a doctor needing to do a physical on a young girl & then asking the parent to step outside yet w/o having a nurse accompany the examination.

But what if the girl has sex with OTHER guys and the doc wants her to open up more?

he hee

Mikel Featherston wrote:

You have pissed off a woman who effectively lives in the same neighborhood as you (5 minutes away), who was referred by someone else you worked with. But you don't see any of this coming back to cause you grief?

No I dont think it will cause any problems for me.  Its not like the mother is going to complain to anyone that I accused her daughter of having sex.  Everyone she knows will just valid what I said.

Kinetic Photography wrote:

No I dont think it will cause any problems for me.  Its not like the mother is going to complain to anyone that I accused her daughter of having sex.  Everyone she knows will just valid what I said.

No... you just wanted to get her sexually active 17 year old daughter alone, to get her to 'open up more'.

Kinetic Photography wrote:
No I dont think it will cause any problems for me.  Its not like the mother is going to complain to anyone that I accused her daughter of having sex.  Everyone she knows will just valid what I said.

No, she'll just say, "You wouldn't believe what so & so wanted to do w/ my daughter. When I told him I thought it was inapproriate, he flipped out & accused my daughter of being a whore."

You don't think word will get out. You yourself said you both run in the same circles & knew a lot of the same people.

Mikel Featherston wrote:

No... you just wanted to get her sexually active 17 year old daughter alone, to get her to 'open up more'.

How idiotic.  I am assuming every model that I have worked with is sexually active.  I prefer all the models I work with to be alone.   I rarely use a MUA and most of my shoots are with natural lighting

Kinetic Photography wrote:
Of course. I am now a rapist because some girl is having sex with some guys.  Good point.  I stated a fact to the mother.  The truth hurts sometimes.  Personally I dont care about my reputation.  I wont lose any potential models.  I have a perfect record and models know I produce great images.  I am not a professional photographer and I have never wanted to be.  This is a hobby for me.  I am often disgusted by the entire industry and the PC game they play to be cool and popular.  This industry is so vain and afraid of reputations its like junior high all over again.

and

Kinetic Photography wrote:

I didnt slam anyone and I owe no one an apology.  However, watch your name calling.

You were way out of line telling her mother anything she (the 17 year old) is up to that you've read on MySpace (where everyone tells the truth about themselves). It was not your place to reveal this and if you can't understand this (after a bunch of us explaining it to you) then you are beyond reasonable and should not be working with people. As others said, what the girl does is irrelvant. You could have just said "well if you don't trust me, okay" then either shoot her (with escort) or not. Your feelings got hurt...boo hoo. If her mother didn't know about her sex life, you just made her next few years miserable. I'm sure you'll get a lot of referrals.

Kinetic Photography wrote:
If she is concered about her daughter having sex then she is looking in the wrong place.

You quoted her as saying it wouldn't be 'appropriate'. Everyone has a line drawn between appropriate and inappropriate, rape is usually WAY past that line. You want the kid to relax and pose in a way she wouldn't feel comfortable posing in front of her mother. Mom probably feels that those poses would be inappropriate.

Farenell Photography wrote:

No, she'll just say, "You wouldn't believe what so & so wanted to do w/ my daughter. When I told him I thought it was inapproriate, he flipped out & accused my daughter of being a whore."

You don't think word will get out. You yourself said you both run in the same circles & knew a lot of the same people.

Whoever she tells is most likey going to be someone I have worked with before....ALONE.  Those people are going to say "yeah, he worked alone with me and a few other people and nothing happened"

Kinetic Photography wrote:

How idiotic.  I am assuming every model that I have worked with is sexually active.  I prefer all the models I work with to be alone.   I rarely use a MUA and most of my shoots are with natural lighting

WTF is it to you (as a photographer) what a models' sex life is (or is not). You're not her therapist or her father-confessor. You're there to take pictures, period. Not get involved in their lives. So you like to work one-on-one, fine. Don't accept work with models who want to bring an escort but don't disparage them either. How old are you?

James Jackson wrote:
Next... next... who next....

Grabs James and tosses into the chipper!

*BZZZZZ**** Glug glug glug....

High-fives everyone

Kinetic Photography wrote:
I wouldnt have said what I said to anyone else.  However, I am sick and tired of being labled a "danger" because I am a photographer.  I played semi-pro tennis and for a few years I taught tennis lessons, both private and group, to kids.  Parents never once questioned me or had any suspicions.  Its a good thing I didnt tell them I was a photographer in my spare time. 
Of course, sports coaches have NEVER been know to molest kids.....its safe to leave them alone.

Really?  Who are you hanging out with?  I don't get this reaction from anyone.  I'm sure it will someday, but not enough to get me riled up.

Kinetic Photography wrote:
Whoever she tells is most likey going to be someone I have worked with before....ALONE.  Those people are going to say "yeah, he worked alone with me and a few other people and nothing happened"

True except for that "minor" detail that immediately after she shot you down, you called her daughter a whore.

Had you pulled the mother aside well before or well after any such shooting, tipping the mom off about what the daughter is doing IN A DIPLOMATIC WAY, the mom might have been a little more receptive. But in the context you said it, you just come out looking as if you're bitter at the mom.

Jack Checkowy wrote:

Sorry, there have been photographers, two in Canada in the last year that I know of that took advantage of underage models and one from the US who murdered the model. Granted, a small percentage, but in the news!!!!

I never shoot an underage model with out the Guardian.... period.  I just let a request from a OMP model to shoot because the Parent was giving her blessing but refused to be there!

Yikes....I think they were actually more of GWC's.  However, take that half dozen and compare them to the dozens of teachers in the past year.....several dozen priest....oh, and lest we forget the thousands of fathers each year........here is my advice....you are better off sticking them in a safe and throwing away the key

In my mind, photographers tend to be more cautious than others seeing we also tend to document everything so we could end up convicting ourselves.

Apfel Photography wrote:
In my mind, photographers tend to be more cautious than others seeing we also tend to document everything so we could end up convicting ourselves.

What kind of photos are YOU taking?

Farenell Photography wrote:
True except for that "minor" detail that immediately after she shot you down, you called her daughter a whore.

Had you pulled the mother aside well before or well after any such shooting, tipping the mom off about what the daughter is doing IN A DIPLOMATIC WAY, the mom might have been a little more receptive. But in the context you said it, you just come out looking as if you're bitter at the mom.

Sorry, I disagree. It's not his place to tell her mother anything. He's her photographer, not her therapist/advisor. He's supposed to shoot models, not out them to their parents.  It does make it look like he wants to get her "slut" daughter alone. What do you think she is going to make of that?

Photographer: I'd like to shoot your underage daughter alone, with no one like you inhibiting her.

Mother: Well, I don't think that's a good idea. I feel uncomfortable with that.

Photographer: Why? She's already a whore. She sleeps with older guys. Posts racy photos on MySpace? Why can't she be alone with me?

Gee, do you get it NOW!

DigitalCMH wrote:

Really?  Who are you hanging out with?  I don't get this reaction from anyone.  I'm sure it will someday, but not enough to get me riled up.

True...I shoot with a few 17 years olds that are freshman at the New World School(dance and ballet college) and their parents tend to walk in, say, "real studio, real lights, real camera (non-point and shoot), real MUA, OK, you're legit" and then they sign the release and leave.

Kinetic Photography wrote:

Not when its in response to someone questioning my professionalism and intentions.  I actually think its necessary for parents and others to have some perspective on this matter.  I think I am helping the mother.  If she is concered about her daughter having sex then she is looking in the wrong place.  Its not me she should be worried about.  Her mom owes me an apology.

How old are you?  You were NOT helping the mom out.  You lashed out defensively when you had a great opportunity to explain WHY you wanted to shoot with her daughter alone.  You had a perfect opportunity to solidify a trusting relationship.  You could have said, hey, show up and drop her off at 5pm.  Even hang out and watch and then make up some excuse to leave and go to the mall or something.  Give me an hour and come back and watch us finish up the shoot.  Explain how sometimes having people around can be a distraction to a model.

Or, call her daughter out in how she's very active with men that aren't claiming to be photographers.