HeatherLynne wrote:
To Legacys 7  if you were closer to me we could shoot but California is a bit far for me to drive and be home in time to be at work on Monday morning.  Now if you ever decide to make a trip this way on the weekend (since I work durring the week) let me know and we can shoot.

Actually I was joking with you. But on a serious note, you do the same as well if you ever come this way.

Chalina wrote:
Wow...really?  Well, reading over this thread, I see a lot of photographers confirming it and it's sad to see.  But, if someone refuses to work with a talented photographer because he/she is black, it's their loss.  And, in the long run, it's going hold them back in everything.

And, by the way, I saw someone said something about models being less comfortable doing nudes or implied nudes for black photographers.  I wanted to point out that the only implied nude ( or actually implied topless ) in my portfolio was taken by a black photographer.  I won't do that pose for everyone.  I did it in this case because I'd seen the quality of his previous work and trusted him to portray it in a tasteful manner.  Race had nothing to do with it.

Well it does happen, very similar to the white female who fear black photgraphers. For me, I never had the problem of white women wanting to shoot nude in general. But you do have that fear as one of the posters confirmed. But you are using your noodle and see that this is opporunity for me to grow as a model and if that person, no matter what the color is, can give me what I'm looking for, then I'm going to jump on the opportunity.

lotusphoto wrote:

i was trying to point out the racist bias of the media and how it creates a racist attitude in individuals.. which reinforces the racial bias in the cops, which.. etc etc..


sorry if what i said was bothersome, my intention was the opposite..

I do apologise myself, then for coming on so strong, then. And what you said isn't bothersome at all. It's just that, from where I'm coming from, we seek so many excuses for racism...especially the media. I'm afraid its a condition of the heart and the result of a socialization that takes place long before the victim (the racist) turns on the tv or picks up the paper... but I do applaud you for even trying to make sense of this whole thing, tho.

ChicagoPhoto wrote:
but I do applaud you for even trying to make sense of this whole thing, tho.

groovy, actually.. i got a major headache, i took a half dozen aspirins.. going to take 5 more in a sec..

Chalina wrote:
Wow...really?  Well, reading over this thread, I see a lot of photographers confirming it and it's sad to see.  But, if someone refuses to work with a talented photographer because he/she is black, it's their loss.  And, in the long run, it's going hold them back in everything.

You know, it's actually funny (now) when I think of the first time it happened to me. A model had contacted me about working with me. I responded. She responded via IM. We began discussing the set. We even had a lot of fun talking about the possibilities. All of a sudden, out of left field, she asked, "What race are you?" I thought it peculiar but I answered. And she asked nothing else of my physical characteristics. We continued the "chat" online for about another 10 minutes just as hearty as the conversation ever was.

She never contacted me again or responded to my email.

Although this relly bothered me at first, I've learned that it's best that should a similar situation arise, I would not change a thing about my response. I now welcome this type of behavior if that's the person's attitude - why - because they let me know who they are before I even waste my time preparing for a shoot.

lotusphoto wrote:

actually, they have a right to be a stupid as they want..
in dec 1962 my dad took us to florida for a vacation, we saw drinking fountains that were marked 'colored' and 'white', i never thought things would be as good as they are today this soon..

We also have the right to wear platform shoes with goldfish in the heels but that doesn't mean it's ok...

Lelah G wrote:
What pains me are the questions that have been presented against these incidents, asking something like, "how do you know that was the reason?"

For all those who have posed similar questions:  are you living in complete oblivion?  Racism & prejudice are indeed not a blatant as they were some years ago (and not TOO many years ago to recount), however they STILL EXIST, and you can definitely tell when someone doesn't want to work with you because of your race.  Think about it this way (the typical scenario):  online portfolio viewership spawns a future shoot, long phone & email conversations confirm the shoot date, and the face-to-face meet conjures a negative vibe . . . seems like refusal due to race.  If the photographer (or model) is not threatening, or does not look threatening, then what could be a better reason?  Come on now people, I think we've been living in America long enough to know about the real world, the world that History classes are too afraid to teach in grade school.

That goes for any race.  It's just a shame that most talked-about race is Black.  Racism is sickening, and racists are sick people.  They should be banished and sent to a secluded island or some shit, that way they wouldn't have to worry about looking at the 'hated race'!  Lol 

Preach! :-)

Random Beauty wrote:
Kill this thread! OMG! Where r these MODs when you need em?

Kill this thread but allow a "would you bang the model while you're shooting" thread live.. If there is one???

1Body wrote:
I'll shoot with a bag of Skittles...!!! I don't care!

Just make sure you remove the yellow ones...I don't like them! Uuugh!!

Omg I hate the yellow ones too!

EMG STUDIOS wrote:

Kill this thread but allow a "would you bang the model while you're shooting" thread live.. If there is one???

I Dunno if there's one. But since you like to start all these conterversial threads you should start that one too.

EMG STUDIOS wrote:
AXLF.. what the FUCK are you talking about?? I personally think crime, when committed by people of color, any color; other than white, is commited, it is sometimes blown out of perspective, but I'm kind of okay with that, maybe because I've been trained to expect nothing more from the media..

i agree.  i think he should've clarified. 
If I see a wannabe thug, I get nervous, whether he's black, white or hispanic.
Someone standing around that acts respectful, whether he or she is white, black, hispanic, asian, whatever, I'm going to be more at ease.

Say I'm judgmental, but I'm not going to stick around to see if someone talkin about "punchin his bitch ass face in, girrrrl lemme holla at you" is really a criminal.

STANLEY LAFLEUR wrote:
i am not trying to be the devils advocate here but since the whole story is not listed. but what if she was a black model saying she does not shoot with black photographers............ would that be wrong.. dont you think it is within her rights not shoot with black photog for whatever her reasons may be.... stupid or not....
the same way u have black girls who only date white men...... or white girls who dont date black men........... y is it wrong......... isnt it  what freedom is all about just wondering!!??

Hush! This is about work not dating

The Immaculate Defect wrote:
I worked with an african american photographer last year Mr.Matthew Gaynor ( Emspace photography) He was so fucking cool. I don't see why models would have an Issue with race or gender of a photographer.

Exactly.  The only thing a model should have a problem with is the photographers attitude.

My favorite photographer is an African American and we'd just spend hours shooting anything that came to mind.  He was fun, cool, and was the most respectful out of any of the photographers I worked with

Random Beauty wrote:

Hush! This is about work not dating

same difference...........

STANLEY LAFLEUR wrote:
i am not trying to be the devils advocate here but since the whole story is not listed. but what if she was a black model saying she does not shoot with black photographers............ would that be wrong.. dont you think it is within her rights not shoot with black photog for whatever her reasons may be.... stupid or not....
the same way u have black girls who only date white men...... or white girls who dont date black men........... y is it wrong......... isnt it  what freedom is all about just wondering!!??

there is a difference between freedom and ignorance.

Chantelle Gascoigne wrote:

there is a difference between freedom and ignorance.

yeaaaaaaaaaa they are free to be ignorant

STANLEY LAFLEUR wrote:
i am not trying to be the devils advocate here but since the whole story is not listed. but what if she was a black model saying she does not shoot with black photographers............ would that be wrong.. dont you think it is within her rights not shoot with black photog for whatever her reasons may be.... stupid or not....
the same way u have black girls who only date white men...... or white girls who dont date black men........... y is it wrong......... isnt it  what freedom is all about just wondering!!??

Sometimes I wonder if some of you posters have brain tumors. Amazxing how those who come here will try to post a intelectual post to prove you are wrong, but when it's challenge, they say some of the dumbest things, just to be right no matter how much they know that they are wrong. What type of question and statement is that? And what does that have to do with what has already been confirmed by both the photographer and a model on here who knows the model?

Even though you don't belive this, let's just say that this is true, does this still make it right or as you say freedom? That's like me saying that it's ok for whites to not allow blacks to drink from the same water fountain because it's their fountain and it's their right. Or it's my right to punch you dead smack in your eye and you not having the right to defend yourself, because it's my freedom to do this.

Your example is like comparing a watermelon to a banana.

STANLEY LAFLEUR wrote:

yeaaaaaaaaaa they are free to be ignorant

And you are doing a excellent job too by displaying that.

Legacys 7 wrote:

And you are doing a excellent job too by displaying that.

agreed

IM Photography wrote:
I had a black model refuse to shoot with me because I was black.

"White is right", didn't you know?

Barron C wrote:
They may not shoot with black photographers but I bet they would have no problem shooting you if you step out of line. I find it a little silly that a grown black man is suprised to find racism anywhere in America or Europe since race as a concept was invented by Europeans wherever they are it is. Maybe that hanging us from trees putting us in prison and policemen killing us without provocation might have served as hints for you. You can only judge people on their past behavior and no matter how far back you go they were racist so shrug it off and keep stepping if it doesn't kill you it only makes you stronger.

>>>

EMG STUDIOS wrote:
WTF is wrong with some of these white models?? You dumb asses.. I experienced just a small wiff of this type of prejudice over the weekend.. Anyone else care to share their thoughts???

I have heard of this before and its a shame, pure ignorace to not shoot with someone because of their race. Ugh that disgusts me so much, that it still happens every day in our so called 'free' country...

lotusphoto wrote:
the civil rights movement is one of the most amazing events in history, maybe the best, it turned around 10's of thousands of years of oppression, there has been slavery forever, and in every culture.. looking at the movement in it's historical context is important..


there are still major problems to be worked on, but if your neck of the woods is repressed models, then you are doing okay...

EMG STUDIOS wrote:
WTF is wrong with some of these white models?? You dumb asses.. I experienced just a small wiff of this type of prejudice over the weekend.. Anyone else care to share their thoughts???

EXCUSE me... but I'm am definitely white and my last shoot was with a black photographer.  OHH.. guess what.. the one before that was with an asian photographer!  Yeah.. we "dumbasses" are really prejudice.


Anyway... yeah.... some people can be really stupid.  But all you can do is... let them be stupid.  And work with the people who aren't stupid

EMG wrote:
They don't shoot with (insert minority here) photographers??? WTF is wrong with some of these white models??

same ones who won't accept treatment in the E.R. by a Black physician? won't accept mail delivery from a Hispanic mail carrier? won't be served by an Asian waiter? won't let their kids play with kids whose parents practice a different religion? won't socialize with people who have a different party affiliation? etc. ...

okay, maybe not to these extremes - (double standards, huh?!?) - but it's not just models; prejudice happens in everything ... and not just by White towards Blacks. even now, in 2006.

(*sigh*)

F

wlc wrote:
The one thing that bugs me about these racially charged threads is the how misinformed and miss-educated you all are about your history. It's blatantly obvious that most of you in this thread hold no degrees or have no formal education on the matter. I was always told never to speak on subjects you know little to nothing about, because you might look like an idiot.

I'm not about to give a history lesson, you all are grown adults, you can do your own research, but FYI:

The ongoing conflicts in the Middle East are a direct result of WWI.
The ongoing conflicts on continental Africa are a direct result of colonialism.

Ethiopia is the only country on the African continent that succesfully defeated the European.
On the other hand, Ethiopia's neighbor, Eritrea has been dominated and colonized many times over, hence why Eritrea and Ethiopia are at each other's throats   

Over 90% of Africans in North America, Central America, South America, the Caribbean, are direct descendants from the west coast of Africa.

Every culture has done it's dirt. The Rwanda genocide was beyond horrible. close to 1,000,000 people lost their lives.

NOW it is important that you know how all that started, since I see certain MM posters like to use "Rwanda" in these racial tit-for-tat threads

You all know about Hitler. Yeah, the crazy European, more specifically German, that started WWII? Now where did he get these ideas to place Jews in forced labor camps and subsequnetly in incinerators?

King Leopold II
Who is King Leopold II you ask?
oh, he was just this Belgium King who killed 15,000,000+ Congolese during his reign.
If ya didn't hear me the first time; King Leopold II (a European) killed 15,000,000+ Congolese during his reign.
One mo' 'gain for those in tha back row; King Leopold II (a European) killed 15,000,000+ Congolese during his reign!!!

BTW, that 15,000,000 is being generous, but if you don't believe me...
http://www.moreorless.au.com/killers/leopold.html

Now for those of you who saw Hotel Rwanda I'm assuming you also saw Congo: White King, Red Rubber, Black Death, right? You can't see Hotel Rwanda without seeing Congo: White King, Red Rubber, Black Death, right?

Keep in mind, that death toll does not include the millions of the elders that died during the ride over here.

You see that and you'll understand how Hitler (a European) was able to kill 6 million Jews. Mind you that's not including the entire death toll of WWII (a war started by Europeans)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties
And I almost forgot, white folk did nuke the Japanese...
But you can't have a WWII without a WWI (a war started by Europeans)...
http://www.pbs.org/greatwar/resources/casdeath_pop.html
oh, and I can't forget about my native American brethren
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Massacres

I'm so glad that Europeans have mastered the written language since we Africans have no record of one (hey, that's what I read here on MM), I wouldn't have been able to retrieve all these detailed stats I just posted, you guys would have thought I was just making stuff up.

Now, just as my first experience of not being taken seriously as a photographer by whites was a hard pill to swallow, a refresher course in European history for Europeans trying to forget their history is a hard pill to swallow, so my recommendation deal with it.

Back to the original question, I had to deal with the same BS when I was green. I got my start working at a portrait studio, so white customers didn't have much of a choice but to shoot with me. When I went solo, I remember over hearing one white model say "he's the photographer, you are kidding, right? I thought he (she pointed to my client, (white) he was the photographer...). I haven't been turned down by a sista yet, but I do realize that there are those Blacks who subscribe to "White is right" (these are the Blacks who will insist on a white doctor over a Black doctor).

That said, I agree with Baron C, stop being surprised that racism still exist, it's alive and evolving, so man-up, stop whining, work hard and continue to hold your ground. 

As for this "Blacks not being able to work together" bit, my entire staff is Black, and we've never had a problem working together. I fail to understand Blacks who experience this.

Now I admit have my gripes with MM (the forum mainly), but for those who are starting out or who want to keep their knives sharp, MM is a great place for that. There a lots and lots of gorgeous women on this site, for every model that turns you down, there are 10 others won't.

Very well said, supported & documented!

Master your craft and they WILL come, ignore the ignorant, they will just slow you down...

Strat

STANLEY LAFLEUR wrote:
i am not trying to be the devils advocate here but since the whole story is not listed. but what if she was a black model saying she does not shoot with black photographers............ would that be wrong.. dont you think it is within her rights not shoot with black photog for whatever her reasons may be.... stupid or not....
the same way u have black girls who only date white men...... or white girls who dont date black men........... y is it wrong......... isnt it  what freedom is all about just wondering!!??

You are being the devil's advocate - and yes it would be very wrong

EMG STUDIOS wrote:
WTF is wrong with some of these white models?? You dumb asses.. I experienced just a small wiff of this type of prejudice over the weekend.. Anyone else care to share their thoughts???

I have shot with BLACK models who don't want to shoot with black photographers, because of certain experiences... or expectations they've encountered a few times.

It's unfortunate that a few bad apples causes some models to generalize.

But... hey... us non black photographers have to deal with our own prejudice now, since the black model Tyra Banks said that we kill models all the time!

UdoR wrote:

... us non black photographers have to deal with our own prejudice now, since the black model Tyra Banks said that we kill models all the time!

Whoa

00siris wrote:

Whoa

Yep!

https://www.modelmayhem.com/posts.php?thread_id=87420

Nick Beneduce wrote:
I had a model one time show up for a shoot and took one look at me and never got out of her car I am a biig old white guy oh well her lose

LMAO...

:-)