Paul Best  wrote:
I don't think there is a difference. maybe women are more social by nature. I'm friendly but i'm not your friend . I'm not looking to get involved in anybody's personal life, but I will give my opinion time to time if asked .

without sounding sexist imo men can stay focused on task at hand , women as social beings will carry the conversation too long and be distracted . just my opinion in most situations I've observed imo lol

that's the awesome thing by distracting the model and talking in a more personal level it feels less like work and they become more comfortable in front of the camera which my main focus is to capture images that look as natural as possible.. When everything is too serious and focused. I seem to get the deer in headlights or over posed look when we are just chit chatting is when I get the best expressions my camera is always ready to take the shot when they are least expecting it. I don't like my shoots to feel like work at all.

People put their guard up when the shoot becomes too quiet and focused.

I for one am always constantly talking to the model as we are shooting I feel this relaxes them more and they forget there is a camera aimed at them. I have been told by many that they love the way I direct as oppose to other people who are too focused on the shoot and micro pose the model too much.

Just my experience

J O H N  A L L A N wrote:
Wow! - you may want to take a look at the common denominator here and it may very well not be male vs. female photographer.

Care to elaborate?

...And by disrespecting our working relationship I mean allowing their boner to hang out of their shorts or just being completely inappropriate/shady.

The goal is to find someone who you can CONNECT with to create COMFORTABLY. I have worked with some extremely talented male photographers who were absolutely professional.

R Emary wrote:
Female photographer here!

I find that models feel a lot more relaxed and comfortable around me because i'm female.

How can you know this unless you are BOTH female and male???

I have shot numerous models fully nude.  Mostly female.  Only ONE female model seemed to be somewhat uncomfortable (none of the other many, many models); I scratched the nude portion of the shoot.  Many were first time nude.  I feel, and could be wrong, that the atmosphere created by the photographer will lead to either relaxed or unrelaxed (if there is such a word) and the sex of the photographer does not matter.

But just one very worthless opinion.   

The dark Satyr wrote:
I've been shot by female photographers, mostly good experiences. The only annoyance was the one time I received a disclaimer about how her 'boyfriend was in the area, and that I "better know I wasn't there for play"'. Kind of struck me the wrong way, "play" was the last thing on my mind. I'm here {shooting, MM, etc..} for art.

As far as the quality of photography male v/ female....yeah, no.

Talent is talent, vision is vision...regardless of gender.

"Talent is talent, Vision is vision!" Yes.
The comment by the lady photographer you describe above, about her boyfriend, would've totally creeped me out and ruined the shoot for me.

Carbon Decay wrote:
sexist...

and how could a female shoot with her penis?

How exactly could *he* be being sexist if he was just quoting another (and based on statistics, presumably female) model? Don't label the messenger.

R Emary wrote:
I find that models feel a lot more relaxed and comfortable around me because i'm female.

Oh?

So all guys are simply going to make a female model feel uptight, nervous and uncomfortable then?

I see.

JESSICA CLAIRE wrote:
...And by disrespecting our working relationship I mean allowing their boner to hang out of their shorts

Was one of those guys called "Terry" by any chance....?



Just my $0.02 etc. etc.

Another Italian Guy wrote:



Was one of those guys called "Terry" by any chance....?



Just my $0.02 etc. etc.

Nope!

JESSICA CLAIRE wrote:
Care to elaborate?

...And by disrespecting our working relationship I mean allowing their boner to hang out of their shorts or just being completely inappropriate/shady.

The goal is to find someone who you can CONNECT with to create COMFORTABLY. I have worked with some extremely talented male photographers who were absolutely professional.

You said in your post that most of the male photographers you have worked with in the last 11 years have behaved in such an outrageous way. That's such an overwhelming amount that I'm suggesting that you look at what you may be doing to create this situation. Maybe it's concentrating on money rather than the quality of the photography or a number of other things that it potentially could be. But, something you're doing or not doing is contributing to the overwhelming percentage of bad experiences.

I'd be afraid to shoot with you frankly because I'd be afraid that you'd bring an internal expectation of bad behavior, defensiveness, etc to my studio, the team and the project.

Paul Best  wrote:
I don't think there is a difference. maybe women are more social by nature. I'm friendly but i'm not your friend . I'm not looking to get involved in anybody's personal life, but I will give my opinion time to time if asked .

without sounding sexist imo men can stay focused on task at hand , women as social beings will carry the conversation too long and be distracted . just my opinion in most situations I've observed imo lol

From my perspective and experiences, the opposite has been true. The Females I worked with are very quiet. My last shoot three days ago, with a female I shot with before hardly said much to me for the whole shoot. Felt completely comfortable and we just worked in unison for the whole time.

When shooting with males, the topic of my breast size comes up a fair few times. I will also get to hear horror stories of shoots they did and I find that unprofessional.

marissa charles wrote:
I will also get to hear horror stories of shoots they did and I find that unprofessional.

Did I ever tell you about the horrible model that . . . .

J O H N  A L L A N wrote:
You said in your post that most of the male photographers you have worked with in the last 11 years have behaved in such an outrageous way. That's such an overwhelming amount that I'm suggesting that you look at what you may be doing to create this situation. Maybe it's concentrating on money rather than the quality of the photography or a number of other things that it potentially could be. But, something you're doing or not doing is contributing to the overwhelming percentage of bad experiences.

I'd be afraid to shoot with you frankly because I'd be afraid that you'd bring an internal expectation of bad behavior, defensiveness, etc to my studio, the team and the project.

I figured that's what you were aiming at.

It's never about the money-- And when I look at the list and count the male photographers with the worst case scenarios its only a few more than the number of female photographers I've worked with so MOST is not the right word, however a couple dozen terrible experiences over a decade really stand out.  As a photographer myself, I can't tell you how many girls come to me after having a horrendous experience and are so thankful just to be able to have fun and create images.

Most recently, I worked with a male photographer for a second time. First shoot was amazing, I finally felt like I found a solid professional creative relationship. Second shoot started as the previous one: I arrived, we went through the wardrobe I brought and we planned the sets we were going to shoot. About 2 hours into the shoot he kept saying, "I am having a hard time being professional." 20 minutes later while shooting some macros of my lips and eyes, he put the camera down and tried to kiss me. He immediately apologized and said he was only being human. I was just doing my job. I wasn't doing anything to bring this on and make him think there is something more. I was shocked! I'm also married and always keep it professional. I am not the type to show up with an escort-- if I'm not comfortable after my screening process or at any point I tell the photographer point blank its not going to work out.

Many moons ago, I took a break after a string of shady occurrences. First shoot back, I shot with this guy who hired me to take lifestyle photos of me in a hoodie, Abercrombie shirt and shorts at the beach. About 45 minutes into the shoot, he began making inappropriate comments and asked me to do some stuff that made me very uncomfortable. When I told him that wasn't what we talked about he threw five bucks at me and took off in his car with two car seats in the backseat. For a while, I only shot with female photographers to regain my creative energy and still be able to do what I love to do without the "hassle" I had been getting. Since then I have worked with some truly talented male photographers who were absolutely professional and I had no qualms about stepping foot on set and working with their teams.

My internal expectation from ANY shoot, no matter what scale, is that I am working to create a fabulous image in a professional setting. Irregardless if someone just picked up the camera or has shot for Vogue. My experience has taught me that I cannot be naive to the fact that someone might have an ulterior motive to shooting with me. So I guess you live and you learn but the point is I haven't given up and I am still a passionate and professional artist. Be afraid to shoot with me if you'd like, what you think about me isn't any of my business. .

So broke down were looking at 13% female photographers, 20% inappropriate creeps, 20% absolutely professional male photographers who I'd recommend in a heartbeat and about 47% left over of photographers who I've had an indifferent experience with.

Eye of the World  wrote:

How exactly could *he* be being sexist if he was just quoting another (and based on statistics, presumably female) model? Don't label the messenger.

Agreed. I read his post to say, "Unless we handle the camera with our sex organs, it doesn't matter if we're male or female."

An individual is too diverse to cast a blanket view separating females from males. We're people, we come from different cultural backgrounds and interpret society and sex roles in vastly different ways. In my earlier post, I said being female definitely helped me in the beginning and it really did - as a female photographer is South Carolina. It probably wouldn't have made a difference back home in Germany, and people in NYC don't seem to care.

JESSICA CLAIRE wrote:
So broke down were looking at 13% female photographers, 20% inappropriate creeps, 20% absolutely professional male photographers who I'd recommend in a heartbeat and about 47% left over of photographers who I've had an indifferent experience with.

Ok - I understand more clearly. So basically you've had about 20% of your shoots be questionable professionally in 11 years. That's not "most" which is what I was reacting to (although it's an awful lot still). It would be my hope also that many of this questionable conduct was weighted early on in the 11 years.
But wow the kissing thing - that would totally freak me out as a photographer even, if a model or a member of the team did that to me when we happened to be in close proximity. Yeah NOT so fun. Now I've been kissed on the cheek parting ways but that's a totally different thing.

But it sounds from a lot of your text in your most recent post that you have a pretty good attitude going into projects and are having good experiences. It's the word "most" that got me wondering.

Fen Lingling wrote:
Yup.. I really wish I'd know where to find a good female photographer, just to see what difference it would make, after and while while shooting. Ladies, where are you hidden? And... why are there so many male photographers, and so few female? In general, and on MM?

I've been told often that I shoot like a man. But I'm a woman

I feel that still in this field of professional photography, it is somewhat hard to work as a female photographer in some instances simply because there is such a wide gap.

So many still think that female photographers only (or pretty much only) shoot families/weddings/babies/children (soft stuff basically), while males shoot beauty, fashion, glam, nude, etc.

Once those barriers fade away (and they are slowly), female photographers will no doubt emerge strong.

Oh and I do NOT shoot babies/weddings/families/etc. Not my style.

Nor-Cal Photography wrote:

Did I ever tell you about the horrible model that . . . .

But makeup artists are the worst for gossip.

Another Italian Guy wrote:
Female photographers don't "shoot with their penis" (to quote another MM model)

Jennifer Haggerty wrote:
I read his post [^^] to say, "Unless we handle the camera with our sex organs, it doesn't matter if we're male or female."

For clarification...

What the MM model meant was that guys (typically) have a more sexual "eye" when it comes to photographing women and that many of them will concentrate on the sex appeal or the sexual parts to the exclusion of the bigger picture and to the exclusion of any emotional connection.

I don't disagree that this is true in many cases (you only have to browse through some of the portfolios on here to realise that!) but I do believe that apart from that it doesn't usually make much difference whether a photographer is male or female.

And of course there are exceptions among both male and female photographers.



Just my $0.02 etc. etc.

marissa charles wrote:



But makeup artists are the worst for gossip.

I've found the opposite and have worked with some amazingly good natured, (either gregarious or gentle but equally good) make up artists.

I also know of two make up artist who received a 'shoot-jitters-jab' of unpleasantness by me and let it slide. Although both times I did it I knew exactly what it was, sigh...I can only hope they did too. Dang on me though. !

I think Make up artist have a tough job in that they are on the front lines with EVERYONE'S potential stress of the day.

Jen
p.s. to Mellie, (last Sunday) and Aretha, (last April) your professional grace was received and appreciated HUGELY, and with apologies, me.

Fen Lingling wrote:
Lately I have been wondering though what difference if would make to shoot with a female photographer.

I can't think of a good reason why a photographer's genitals would be in the least bit important to the outcome of a shoot.

S de Varax wrote:
I'm a female photographer and I've had some models say that shooting with me (or other female photographers) is a different experience to shooting with male photographers, but it really depends on your personality and how you work with people and who you're working with, it's different for everybody.

I think it is hard to explain, but there is a difference. From the Model point of view definitely. As a photographer you are not going to have the experience a model will have. What I experience is a way of the Photographer seeing the picture, not the camera technique.  When technique comes into play, makes tend to place some importance towards the equipment they possess. I have yet to work with a Female Photographer who takes A long time setting up Lights etc before shooting.

Fen Lingling wrote:
Being a model and all, I have done a fair amount of shoots. All with great photograpers, no doubt, though results vary from awesome to disaster.

All of the photographers I came across are men. Great guys, nice fellows, who sometimes treat me beer and pizza after. Lately I have been wondering though what difference if would make to shoot with a female photographer. I have never encountered a female photographer neither here in Beijing nor HK.

Does it matter? Could it matter? Why does it seem like there are so few of them? It's not that I distrust guys, or have daddy issues or something, I am just very curious if collaborating with a lady behind the lens would get a different (not better or worse per say)result for a shoot.

Does anybody wonder about the same? Please share!

Come back to the Netherlands and you can shoot with me

Elizabeta Rosandic wrote:
Oh BTW, Stefano was quoting me when he said the "shoot with their penis" quote. Here's a further explanation of that theory:

Male photographers, from what I've noticed, have a tendency to shoot only what they're sexually attracted to in their personal life. If a photographer is gay, he shoots men. Straight, he shoots women. If he likes women with big bewbs in his personal life, he shoots models who correspond with that personal preference.

Obviously, there are exceptions to everything and there are many photographers who do not do this.

Also, there isn't necessarily anything wrong with shooting what you're sexually attracted to as sexual energy in art can be a very powerful thing.

But, it happens often enough (and with poor enough photography skills) to make me facepalm all over the place.

Oh, and if a female photog ever tried to molest me at a shoot, yeah, I'd walk out.

What artists don't shoot (or draw, or paint, or sculpt) mainly subjects that inspire them?  I certainly wouldn't argue with the premise that women are inspired by different aspects of life, beauty, and sexuality than men are, but the implication that,  unlike men, women photographers given their preference will shoot things other than what inspires them doesn't make any sense to me.  Are you sure you're not just facepalming over the fact that men are more inspired by physical sexuality and women more by emotional sexuality?

BTHPhoto wrote:

What artists don't shoot (or draw, or paint, or sculpt) mainly subjects that inspire them?  I certainly wouldn't argue with the premise that women are inspired by different aspects of life, beauty, and sexuality than men are, but the implication that,  unlike men, women photographers given their preference will shoot things other than what inspires them doesn't make any sense to me.  Are you sure you're not just facepalming over the fact that men are more inspired by physical sexuality and women more by emotional sexuality?

The issue isn't photographers only shooting what inspires them. The issue is that male photographers often seem to *only* draw inspiration from that they're sexually attracted to.

Elizabeta Rosandic wrote:

The issue isn't photographers only shooting what inspires them. The issue is that male photographers often seem to *only* draw inspiration from that they're sexually attracted to.

Why is it an issue?

If they produce work that you like then who cares *why* they shoot what they shoot?

The only people who are likely to be upset by my preference for shooting girls are male models, and their disappointment is neither here nor there to me as I rarely have any cause to interact with them!


Just my $0.02 etc. etc..

Another Italian Guy wrote:

Why is it an issue?

If they produce work that you like then who cares *why* they shoot what they shoot?

The only people who are likely to be upset by my preference for shooting girls are male models, and their disappointment is neither here nor there to me as I rarely have any cause to interact with them!


Just my $0.02 etc. etc..

For one thing, since it's such a wide-spread thing that male photographers have in common, it's telling of sociological/psychological issues in the west in general. As a lowly artist this would be completely outside of my field, but I think it would be interesting to create an analysis of why this is such a common trend among male photographers.

For another thing, it affects models in a variety of ways. Male models have a harder time finding work because of it. Female models must market themselves according to this trend in order to find work. BBW models for instance, will likely have a harder time finding work even if they are killer models (and I have seen some BBW's that have blown my f'ing mind). Models who do fit the standard for "sexually appealing" then must pose in ways that not only create interesting lines, forms, shapes, etc., but often must emphasize sex appeal, regardless of how good/bad the photo is as a result.

Elizabeta Rosandic wrote:

The issue isn't photographers only shooting what inspires them. The issue is that male photographers often seem to *only* draw inspiration from that they're sexually attracted to.

So men are from Mars and women are from Venus.  Men don't understand what motivates women and women don't understand what motivates men.  That happens in all walks of life, not just photography.  The real issue is that we (both men and women) take what we don't understand, reduce it to something we can explain as if we do understand it, then use it as a reason to despise and minimize those on the other side of the fence.  I suspect that you're really facepalming over the fact that men are men, not over the differences in male and female photographers.

Elizabeta Rosandic wrote:
I think it would be interesting to create an analysis of why this is such a common trend among male photographers.

I shoot what I find beautiful.

I don't find boys beautiful.

It doesn't take a PhD to analyse that!





Just my $0.02 etc. etc.

BTHPhoto wrote:

So men are from Mars and women are from Venus.  Men don't understand what motivates women and women don't understand what motivates men.  That happens in all walks of life, not just photography.  The real issue is that we (both men and women) take what we don't understand, reduce it to something we can explain as if we do understand it, then use it as a reason to despise and minimize those on the other side of the fence.  I suspect that you're really facepalming over the fact that men are men, not over the differences in male and female photographers.

I think you're misunderstanding me?

For one thing, saying "men are men" is a pretty blanket statement. Not all men are the same. Not all women are the same.

I'm talking about a trend among male photographers, not the "differences" between men and women which is a whole other enormous discussion within itself.

Elizabeta Rosandic wrote:

I think you're misunderstanding me?

For one thing, saying "men are men" is a pretty blanket statement. Not all men are the same. Not all women are the same.

I'm talking about a trend among male photographers, not the "differences" between men and women which is a whole other enormous discussion within itself.

Perhaps I am.  It sounds as though you're saying most male photographers are only artistically motivated by things they find sexually attractive.  While that's largely untrue, the fact that sexually attractive things have a high importance among most mens' priorities is widely recognized and well documented.  However in the context here it sounds as though you're attributing that to male photographers rather than to men in general, and it sounds like you're implying that's a flaw and that female photographers don't have the same flaw.  Here you've characterized it as a trend among male photographers.  I hold that it's simply a normal and natural (though not universal) trait of males, regardless of whether they are photographers or not.

BTHPhoto wrote:

Perhaps I am.  It sounds as though you're saying most male photographers are only artistically motivated by things they find sexually attractive.  While that's largely untrue, the fact that sexually attractive things have a high importance among most mens' priorities is widely recognized and well documented.  However in the context here it sounds as though you're attributing that to male photographers rather than to men in general, and it sounds like you're implying that's a flaw and that female photographers don't have the same flaw.  Here you've characterized it as a trend among male photographers.  I hold that it's simply a normal and natural (though not universal) trait of males, regardless of whether they are photographers or not.

Men are no hornier than women. Women are just taught to suppress it more.