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I Really Pissed Off Her Mom......
Tony Lawrence wrote: Tony..I love you man.. Oct 19 06 01:48 pm Link Sad but true. More women get raped/molested by the average joe and it's "just another incident", a photographer does it and it looks badly on all of us. I want to make nice pictures. That's it. Oct 19 06 01:54 pm Link Tony Lawrence wrote: i was in a sales job, a co-worker from ivory coast was trying to help a customer decide on a tv, the customer said 'fu nigger' and left, the guy from ivory coast heard a word he'd never been called before and shrugged it off because it had no history for him, the floor manager took the guy from ivory coast aside and spent 30 mins trying to make him feel better, but he wasn't hurt, he didnt care a bit Oct 19 06 01:55 pm Link Benedict wrote: HUH? Oct 19 06 01:55 pm Link Vance wrote: Please don't turn a thread about a guy, a teen, and a mother into a race thread. Start a new thread. Oct 19 06 02:03 pm Link Vance wrote: Oy. Now this thread really is pointless. Oct 19 06 02:03 pm Link Dude, 18 is the cut-off point. NEVER shoot anyone under 18 without a PARENT present-for your protection and because only a parent can sign a release for a minor. There are enough >18 models that you can shoot and not have to care that this 17y/o doesn't "open up". Oct 19 06 02:05 pm Link ChristianBehr wrote: Hey, this isnt aboout a raced thread...this is about getting pissed off as it rlates to the OP..and I didnt bring it up...go read.. Oct 19 06 02:05 pm Link So Shoot Me! wrote: Peep this.. Oct 19 06 02:06 pm Link shotbytim wrote: I shoot younger models - but with staff present. A make-up artist goes a long way. Oct 19 06 02:17 pm Link Kinetic Photography wrote: Next time, try asking that question. I bet you'll get an entirely different type of thread. If that was your point the whole time, why did you tell us about a situation in which you responded inappropriatly to an accusation you felt was unwarranted? Oct 19 06 02:40 pm Link Kinetic Photography wrote: I think what's interesting about the OP is that the photographer had no problem shooting the model (twice) with (many) escorts present. It was only when the photographer checked out the underage model's profile on MySpace and saw that she dated older men and was sexually active, that he conceived a sudden desire to be alone with her. The OP himself said the first shoot went "very well." Suddenly, after seeing her MySpace profile, he feels "she wasnt opening up enough due to her mom being there." Now, I'm not accusing the photographer of anything, though I myself am wary of older men who try to befriend underage girls on MySpace, just noting the coincidence. Oct 19 06 02:49 pm Link Vance wrote: Stop acting like a thug, it looks bad on you. Oct 19 06 02:50 pm Link Vance wrote: just noting that you can take name calling, but not of your mom, and that the mom didnt have a right to be mad at the the photographer for calling her kid a whore, except that no-one should call you vinny Oct 19 06 03:00 pm Link lotusphoto wrote: Be careful... or he'll type really fast in all captial letters. Oct 19 06 03:09 pm Link ChristianBehr wrote: bottle blonde? it takes me two bottles to fk one.. Oct 19 06 03:19 pm Link Wow, my daughter is new her to MM, neither of us have ever posted anywhere on here and I'm about to jump into a frying pan. No worries, I'm not here to say whether anyone is right or wrong, but rather to give my 2 cents for what it is worth. Take what you can and toss the rest. There isn't anyone in the world that can honestly say that they have never said something inappropriate, unprofessional or just plain wrong. It happens. Sometimes even those that are usually well in control of themselves and their actions, lose control. It doesn't matter if you feel that you/they were right or wrong, it happens. In my opinion, what matters most is how a delicate situation is handled once it has proven to be out of control. Whether the mother's literal words were to the effect that he might make (warranted or unwarranted) advances toward her daughter really isn't the point. If that is in fact what she said, I would agree that it was likely a bit out of line given that such blanket generalizations are quite skewed most often and rarely close to the truth....and typically pretty unfairly proclaimed. Just as I feel that his response to the perceived attack was out of line as well. What's done is done and can't be undone though. As for your original statements: "Okay so we all know that all photographers are pedophiles, rapists and murderers. Society and the media has taught everyone to be EXRETEMLY cautious and apprehensive around photographers and to do everything possible to ensure that you dont end up a victim of a known photographer. The golden rule is that a female can NEVER be left alone with a photographer because at any given moment they might STRIKE.....sexually." This is again a very blanket generalization and what I believe to be a bit exaggerated. Of course there are rumors of the bad seed photographers out there. Some have been proven to truly be bad seeds. Of course, people are going to discuss it and remind people to be careful, take caution and use a little common sense when possibly working with someone brand new. That actually happens in every walk of life though....it certainly isn't limited to this industry or even more precisely to photographers moreso than others. The fact of the matter is that there really are bad people out there that only wish to bring harm. They are everywhere and in every industry. I would venture to guess that the "chitter chatter" about photographers in particular seems more out there to you because you are actually a part of this industry and thus it hits a lot closer to home. Take a gander around though and you will find that this exact same concern is definitely out there in every venue whether it be priests, coaches, den mothers/fathers, girl scout leaders, CEO's and any other field that you could possibly imagine. Rightly so as well. The numbers are staggering for the number of children that are assaulted physically, sexually and emotionally. We as a society have a right (even responsibility) to be concerned, aware and to take any and all measures available to us in order to reduce the risk as much as possible. Let's set aside the part in which you said the mother inferred that you would make advances toward her daughter and just for the sake of ridding ourselves of perceived threats and ask whether the mother had a right to expect that her wishes of her daughter not being at a photoshoot without a guardian present was appropriate. Indeed it was. Setting all personal beliefs and opinions aside, that is by and far any parents right and responsibility. Quite frankly, it doesn't matter what the general public feels is standard or should be considered the norm. It doesn't even matter what this industry typically portrays as appropriate. In being a parent, a responsibility is accepted and hopefully taken to heart, to care for, nurture and protect the child with hopes of gearing them into a productive, healthy and well balanced adult hood. No parent is perfect. Some go overboard. Some don't seem to take it seriously enough, but we have to give them the benefit of the doubt that they are truly doing what they feel is in the best interest of the child. Unless you see that there is definite harm being done, who are you to interfere or say that they are wrong? Plain and simple, for whatever reasons (and they honestly never matter, nor will) she had every right to not feel comfortable (or allow) her daughter doing a photoshoot with you or any other photographer without parent present. You had every right to take offense to her statements and your understanding of what was said. You have every right to say that you aren't willing or don't wish to work with people where the foundation of your working relationship isn't built on the trust and respect that you believed it to be. You even have a right to forcefully defend yourself as you feel necessary when you feel attacked (granted that given certain more extreme circumstances, there might actually be serious consequences for doing this) and doing so proudly. Now, onto what most disturbs me about this thread. You stated that your "I am a little upset though that this thread drifted so far away from what I wanted it to be. My whole point was....why do photographers, to the exclusion of so many other professions, warrant so much fear and aprehension in the publics mind ? What did photographer do throughout history to deserve it ?" If this was what you were really looking to explore, why the indepth description of the events that you encountered? There really was no need for a background story explaining why you were seeking out other people's thoughts on why photographers have such a bad rep. First, let me give you props because unless I missed it somewhere, you didn't actually disclose real names of those involved. However, I do disagree with bringing forth issues that occur in the workplace or anywhere else that truly are of no concern of anyone else on this site. It's just poor form in my opinion. Being so new to this site, I don't know if it is as intricately woven as some of the others and easy to link things back to people even without their names, but I certainly hope that isn't the case for the sake of this young girl. She didn't ask to brought into this. And regardless of a woman's age, but especially a minor, her sexual proclivities whether true, false, posted on a site of hers somewhere or written on the bedroom wall is completely inappropriate discussion. For me to use the terms inappropriate, bad form, tastless, etc...just doesn't do it justice. Can someone please tell me how this thread has gone on as long as it has when it is clearly trashing a young girl? I don't care what is on her MySpace page. I don't care if she really has been highly promiscous....even with older men. I hope that it isn't as the original poster described, but quite frankly it isn't any of my business and it sure isn't the business of any Tom, Dick, Jane or Betty that may come bepopping along to a public forum. Sure as anything else in this world, a bunch of complete strangers that don't know this young lady from Eve, don't need to be discussing a minor childs sexual explorations or using terms such as "slut" and "whore" even in the same discussion....let alone in the same sentence. Myself as a mother of a minor young lady trying to break into this industry, I absolutely will not allow her to attend a photoshoot without an adult of my approval....either myself, my mother or her father usually....under any circumstances. Part of this does stem from eliminating as many of those risks as I can for her. In fact, the mere fact that I am allowing her to shoot with someone at all says that I at least got an initial good viber from them. If I hadn't, I wouldn't let them near my baby. Another part comes from protecting everyone involved in case of any miscommunications or misconstrued signals (we are working in a fast paced environment and dealing with children here). And yet another part comes from feeling as if I should be there. The photographer is not a babysitter, nor are they responsible for the child in any way. What if something should go wrong and someone was injured? Long shot probably but I'm certain it has happened somewhere. Let me note very clearly though, that this does not just apply to photographers. This also applies to her personal gymnastics trainer who she has worked one on one with for almost 2 years. This applies to her being left unattended with anyone for that matter that I do not trust with every fiber in me actually. Zoe has a few photographers that she has shot with several times. She and I both adore them and I actually consider them a friend and someone that I can run to for advice and questions and I am still present at every shoot even with them. It isn't personal...trust me, if it was you wouldn't be in the picture to be offended in the first place. Again, everyone has their right to choose that with which they find acceptable work conditions and terms. I would hope that should you not agree in part or whole with what someone else feels or believes that you wouldn't find it necessary to shun them or bash them publicly. We have come across several photographers in the short time that we have been doing this that wanted or expected things that just didn't jive with us. I don't think any less of them. Nor would I run amock spreading negativity about them. I simply don't work with them. Should someone ask why we won't/haven't or don't work with someone in particular, I will gladly tell them that we didn't have the same concepts in mind and would likely give them a vague description of how we conflicted. Other than that, it truly is no one elses business. I can't say that I am shocked and horrified to see such public disgrace of other people, although I wish I could but this really hit home with me. Again, take it for what it's worth...just another person's opinions and we all know about those. Use what you can and toss the rest. I am just hoping that this really isn't typical behaviour on this site. Shelly Oct 19 06 03:19 pm Link lotusphoto wrote: point to me where he called her a whore... Oct 19 06 03:26 pm Link ChristianBehr wrote: Precisely. I never thought I'd defend Florida Law...ever. But if the OP was in Florida there would be no debate. Minors must have a parent or guardian present and sign the model release. And how the hell does her personal life even enter into the justification to allow her to shoot one-on-one with the OP? If she was a documented virgin (don't they carry certificates or something?) the mom would have been right? But because you claim she's a slut, it's ok for her to be on her own because the OP couldn't do anything worse than has already been done to her? And since she's soooo promiscuous, why put yourself in the position to be alone with her? And I still don't understand why the harsh insult of the daughter to the mother simply because she's looking out for her daughter...warranted or not. Oct 19 06 03:26 pm Link DigitalCMH wrote: It's bully Thursday..didnt you get the memo? Oct 19 06 03:28 pm Link Zoe Daugherty wrote: if you read the photography forum you'll find a lot of technical questions, likewise the model and stylist forums are fairly to the point.. Oct 19 06 03:32 pm Link Wait. What? The "N" word? Damn...I'm so behind in this thread lol. This is like the game where someone whispers into your ear and the message gets relayed down the line. By the time you get to the end the original statement of "The house down the road was built by contractors" turns into " The whores with the rods love rude carpenters." Or something like that. Oct 19 06 03:33 pm Link lotusphoto wrote: Huh? What? I don't understand your response. Oct 19 06 03:34 pm Link Michael Pandolfo wrote: Man, even if the OP is completly wrong..The OP has been taken way out of context.. Oct 19 06 03:44 pm Link Vance wrote: i could look at your sentence in one of two ways.. Oct 19 06 03:44 pm Link Michael Pandolfo wrote: i was teaching in east palo alto in the 90's Oct 19 06 03:47 pm Link lotusphoto wrote: Dude, all he asked was to shoot sans an escort...and he explained why...he did not insult her until she made an accusation..cause and effect... Oct 19 06 03:48 pm Link I said "of course, I should have known. Its a good thing all of those other guys she is having sex with arent photographers" Oct 19 06 03:50 pm Link lotusphoto wrote: yeah after she said he was trying to make advances toward her daughter and by profession alone it was innapropriate to shoot with her alone.. Oct 19 06 03:52 pm Link ChristianBehr wrote: Look smarty pants it was a story I used to make a point if you will feel better Oct 19 06 03:54 pm Link Vance wrote: Hmm...stereotying photographers = bad. Stereotyping teens = perfectly acceptable. Interesting. Oct 19 06 03:56 pm Link Michael Pandolfo wrote: Did you bother reading the OP?..and please...hung around teens latley. Oct 19 06 03:58 pm Link Tony Lawrence wrote: Tony.. Oct 19 06 04:00 pm Link Vance wrote: I guess I'm not hanging around teens. I'm more than happy to find adult 3-somes and uh...nevermind lol. Oct 19 06 04:01 pm Link Not that I'm excusing the OP or the mother but if you insult someone you shouldn't be surprised if they react. Depending on if I've had a bad day I might too. Oct 19 06 04:02 pm Link Michael Pandolfo wrote: really..what are you trying to say? Oct 19 06 04:02 pm Link Tony Lawrence wrote: damn, Ive been saying that all damn day... Oct 19 06 04:04 pm Link Kinetic Photography wrote: You're my new hero. Oct 19 06 04:12 pm Link James Jackson wrote: Vito wrote: The Bob Shell case is still being tried. He is innocent until proven guilty. He is only *accused* of contributing to the girl's death. Oct 19 06 04:14 pm Link Wow, I didnt think my post would get some many replies. However, no one has yet answered my question....Why do photographers have the reputation they have ? When the mother questioned the "appropriateness" of her daughter being alone with a "photographer" it made me wonder what is it about photographers that is so dangerous ? Her mother knew that photography isnt my profession. In all of my years teaching tennis lessons to people under 18 I was never once questioned by a parent as to my intentions or the safety of being alone with me. My nieghboor teaches music lessons to people, many of them children, and they are alone with him. This is the crux of my post.....WHY AND WHEN DID PHOTOGRAPHERS GET THE DANGEROUS LABEL ? Oct 19 06 04:15 pm Link |
