e-string wrote:
I had a great idea and it got totally ignored. All you people want is drama.

Hey there
I saw your idea too, and personally, I think it's a GREAT one!!!!!  Yes, we need to write about those we WILL shoot with and then the rest can be assumed that we wouldn't shoot with the others.
Caroline

Caroline A Martin wrote:

Hey there
I saw your idea too, and personally, I think it's a GREAT one!!!!!  Yes, we need to write about those we WILL shoot with and then the rest can be assumed that we wouldn't shoot with the others.
Caroline

Lets start that list today. I'll work on mine.

LEWIS wrote:

Hayden.....  you want to make this more than it is..... he is known to most photogrphers and he is what he is. as long as there are models that are new there will always be those types. I know Jodi and she has a Rockin Body.... But that does not give ANYONE the right to pull her pants down. And if you want to believe they were involved.... NOPE guarentee that was NOT the case. As for sharing studios... That happens here all the time. My studio gets used more by others than myself. We help each other out... Not pants them for any reason... And as far as the computer thing... I have mine out all the time and if someone looks they will not find any sneaky shit.......  I am totally with jodi on this   SHE WAS WRONGED   So now lets move on....   She doesnt deserve you trying to say or hinting she had some sort of other interest in him... relationship....

Please lets move on.....

Wrong. I asked her if she went back to his studio after the pulling down of the shorts. As in how much did the pulling down of the shorts bother you at the time. Was it in fact so bad that you would give up the use of his studio or was it not so bad as you would still use his studio for your own gain. ie using someone for what they have for your gain. If she went back to his studio for whatever reason then the short issue was not as bad as she writes here,that is what I was saying. Now is it clear? I don't give a shyte if they were lovers or not,just because you are in a relationship does not give someone the right to degrade you by pulling your clothes off etc.

Rossi Photography wrote:
Since leaving this thread yesterday and coming back this morning, I can't help but laugh. What you guys have turned this into... I will be taking care of this offline. I shoulda' known better than to think people would take it for what it is and say, 'Hmmm.. What can we do about these creeps to make our profession not such a headache'. Whether you choose to believe what I said happened or not, it still doesn't deny that there are scumbags out there doing this. You know... Work together instead of against eachother. But no... That wouldn't be any fun, now would it! It's going to be turned on me as if I'm some revengeful lover of this creeps and snooping through his computer. I think some of you should go back and read the entire thread.

This was not a poor me, cry victim plead. That's not in my character. ... this was to maybe come up with ways to help models (and us) weed out these creeps, so they don't have to run into situations like this. The only person who suggested anything was a model. And I'll also add, after I posted this, someone wrote me with the name asking if it was him. Then went on to tell me what he did to her. So, it'll definitely be taken care of. Offline.

To those who keep telling me to name him, I will not be naming him in this thread. After reading some of these replies...? I'm a lot smarter than that.

As someone stated earlier in this thread... Us here in Detroit, we help each other out. We have a pretty close knit scene here. So, we'll take care of this asshole.

Carry on....

Your so right on this, but what happens when your name shows up on it right or wrong?

Rossi Photography wrote:
I wonder, so I'll ask you.

There's a guy who calls himself a photographer here in the Detroit area. Who is known by most of the legit photographers for what he really is. Every person I've ever mentioned him to all say the same thing. But he has a way of manipulating the models. I know this firsthand because this guy has confided in me some things I don't think he'd ever want his models to know. And I made the mistake of letting him photograph me (before I knew what he is) and that did not go well. Some of you may've read about what happened in another thread. Long story short... in the middle of the shoot, he snuck behind me when I wasn't looking and pulled down my shorts.

Someone (can't remember who) posted in another thread describing him to a tee, saying these guys view the shoot as a date of sort, etc... I'll have to go find the post.

And I also question him in other areas, such as once I was at his place and I found in his computer MY photos. He saved them from my blog. I questioned him on it and he said, "Oh, I just wanted to see what you did, how you shot them...". Bullshit! I also noticed he had many, MANY females pictures saved from their myspace pages. That was a bit weird.

Now, is it right or wrong if I, or someone else, were to expose this guy to the modeling/photog community? Say on a message board such as this?

What'd you think? Would it be wrong to name him publicly? I'm not saying I'm going to. Just curious.

Hadyn Lassiter wrote:

Wrong. I asked her if she went back to his studio after the pulling down of the shorts. As in how much did the pulling down of the shorts bother you at the time. Was it in fact so bad that you would give up the use of his studio or was it not so bad as you would still use his studio for your own gain. ie using someone for what they have for your gain. If she went back to his studio for whatever reason then the short issue was not as bad as she writes here,that is what I was saying. Now is it clear? I don't give a shyte if they were lovers or not,just because you are in a relationship does not give someone the right to degrade you by pulling your clothes off etc.

This is essentially my point too, which as has been noted hasn't been and now isn't likely to be addressed. Online.

The OP has vowed that this will be "taken care of".  Offline. (Which may have been the best place to take care of it in the first place.)

(Suggestion to the OP: if you wish to handle this the way it's done on the international level, get your supporters and his supporters together somewhere, give them axe-handles and incite them to beat the crap out of each other while you continue to spew excoriating invective at him in media/public forums. Works for Bush, but that's really another thread for another forum )

Holly Dell wrote:
I might be leaning on the girls side for a reason, but seems to me we can name our enemies in any other field, but come to the show business world or anything artistic and labeling the scam artists (well the scams might be mentioned but not the scam artist usually) or the pervs and we risk giving ourselves a bad name. 
- Holly

With all due respect, I think you haven't thought this completely through.

We have a system of laws in this country. When someone does something that violates those laws, there are a tremendous number of protections available to victims. In most states, if you go to the police station and file a complaint of sexual harassment, there will IMMEDIATELY be placed an automatic restraining order on the alleged perpetrator -- forbidding them to contact you or come near you, upon pain of imprisonment. There is a mechanism to investigate charges, and punish the perpetrator if he is found guilty.

At the same time, alleged perpetrators have a right to defend themselves against charges of criminal conduct. That's why we have a system of courts, judges, prosecutors, and defenders.  I won't tell you it's a perfect system -- I know it's far from that. But it's the best one we have, and it beats the heck out of vigilante justice. Otherwise we end up like some other countries where your boyfriend or husband or father beats the guy to death, and then his family kills a couple of people in your family in revenge, and off it goes. Without a legal system, the strongest always win, right or wrong. But I digress.

If you attempt to make yourself and your friends into judge and jury, you are bypassing our system of laws and becoming a vigilante. At that point, the law begins protecting the alleged perpetrator from YOU. "Naming your enemies," as you call it, without bringing charges within the system, forces the alleged perpetrator to take action against you to protect themselves, and more importantly forces the legal system to protect him against you. Turn it around for a second -- if you were accused of sexually molesting or harassing someone, wouldn't you want there to be some way to defend yourself against your accusers?

Which brings us back to my original point. If someone says something you find offensive, threatens you, or attempts to do something to you or in front of you that you don't want done, you have a duty to tell them to stop and then leave if necessary.  If they continue the conduct or pursue you after you tell them to stop and attempt to leave, they have just committed sexual harassment and possibly some other crimes too which are actionable. At that point, you have an obligation to society not to just name names, but to bring a criminal complaint to the police.

Anything you try to do outside of this system is dangerous to you -- not because you're in the entertainment industry, but because our legal system is designed to protect people against vigilante justice, and to allow them to face their accusors -- and you are denying their rights when you try to bring an alleged perpetrator to justice outside of the legal system.

When we hear stories like this, it's SO tempting to take action -- have somebody beat the crap out of the guy, shoot him, smear his name in public, whatever. But you have to remember, whether he's guilty or not, we have a legal system that is sworn to protect citizens from stuff like that -- so when you go after somebody on your own, YOU break the law and become a criminal, or at least liable in a civil suit yourself. And the penalties for that can be severe. How ironic and stupid to lose your house or end up in jail yourself-- trying to get even with someone who harmed you or someone you know. Not funny.

http://timesunion.com/AspStories/story. … =9/30/2006

I'm not a lawyer, so this isn't legal advice -- it's just the way I understand our system of justice to work.

Regards,
Paul

PapaVic Photography wrote:

This is essentially my point too, which as has been noted hasn't been and now isn't likely to be addressed. Online.

The OP has vowed that this will be "taken care of".  Offline. (Which may have been the best place to take care of it in the first place.)

(Suggestion to the OP: if you wish to handle this the way it's done on the international level, get your supporters and his supporters together somewhere, give them axe-handles and incite them to beat the crap out of each other while you continue to spew excoriating invective at him in media/public forums. Works for Bush, but that's really another thread for another forum )

When your a Jet your a Jet all the way from your...........

Henri3 wrote:
Saying "eventually He'll bury himself is somewhat delusional"  someone has to blow the whistle, be it you or a model.
Actually the term whistleblower is quite apt....as situations can go on for years, till someone has the balls to say something.
What action someone takes is up to debate...but SOMEONE has to speak up. If they really care... about themselves..or the welfare of others. 
There's was a similar situation in my area....and one model finaly sued the photog for molestation....complacency is what it's called.

Although this makes sense consider this story from several years back.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/ra_smith.htm  This case shows how easy it is
to accuse someone often with little evidence.  If something happens to you and
its a crime not some guy being silly or saying something goofy not someone who
you kid around with who was just having fun but a real crime.  Then go not to
the court of MM but too the police.  Let them and the courts sort things out. 
There have been people who have gotten away for years with crimes.  Men like
Gacy where neighbors noticed things but wouldn't speak up but there have also
been cases like in my link where innocent people have been caught up in a web
of lies.  Its not a easy line to walk and I only hope some well 'meaning' model
doesn't decide to out you for a incident that didn't happen expect in her mind.

Caroline A Martin wrote:

Hey there
I saw your idea too, and personally, I think it's a GREAT one!!!!!  Yes, we need to write about those we WILL shoot with and then the rest can be assumed that we wouldn't shoot with the others.
Caroline

haha actually that was someone else. My idea was that the OP should make a new thread informing models of the things this guy told her in confidence about the ways he manipulates models. That way she doesn't have to out him, but models can get the benefit of knowing when someone is potentially unsafe.

e-string wrote:

haha actually that was someone else. My idea was that the OP should make a new thread informing models of the things this guy told her in confidence about the ways he manipulates models. That way she doesn't have to out him, but models can get the benefit of knowing when someone is potentially unsafe.

...but how would anyone really know what he said and the tone he used.  Very
often tone is missing in the written word.  Someone may call you a name in
person and you'd laugh because of the way it may be said.  I call my granddaughter
my little rockhead for example.  However if someone wrote I said that I might
get a visit from DCFS.  What is also of interest is the way the OP wrote what happened it made several posters curious about what was really going on. 
Again I can only trust what the OP wrote and thats the biggest problem we only
get one side of the story.  Without a person being able to respond we can't really
get a ideal of how true things are. Also  if the OP made a thread with what he said
how would models know who she was talking about.  Look if someone has
committed a crime call the police.  Didn't you find it somewhat odd that someone
would take another person into their confidence and tell them things they do.
To me it sounds like way more then a casual relationship.

Tony Lawrence wrote:
...but how would anyone really know what he said and the tone he used.  Very
often tone is missing in the written word.  Someone may call you a name in
person and you'd laugh because of the way it may be said.  I call my granddaughter
my little rockhead for example.  However if someone wrote I said that I might
get a visit from DCFS.  What is also of interest is the way the OP wrote what happened it made several posters curious about what was really going on. 
Again I can only trust what the OP wrote and thats the biggest problem we only
get one side of the story.  Without a person being able to respond we can't really
get a ideal of how true things are. Also  if the OP made a thread with what he said
how would models know who she was talking about.  Look if someone has
committed a crime call the police.  Didn't you find it somewhat odd that someone
would take another person into their confidence and tell them things they do.
To me it sounds like way more then a casual relationship.

It doesn't matter how models would know who she was talking about or not. It would enable models to avoid him and others like him. Making a thread like I suggested would do no harm whatsoever and could very possibly do some good by giving models information about how to spot a potential predator when the usual GWC signs aren't as obvious because he's an established "professional".

Several posters also said they think they know who she's talking about, and they agreed that he's a problem.

And sometimes people are stupid. Perhaps he told her things in confidence because he had a thing for her, not because they had some sort of relationship going.

e-string wrote:
It doesn't matter how models would know who she was talking about or not. It would enable models to avoid him and others like him. Making a thread like I suggested would do no harm whatsoever and could very possibly do some good by giving models information about how to spot a potential predator when the usual GWC signs aren't as obvious because he's an established "professional".

Several posters also said they think they know who she's talking about, and they agreed that he's a problem.

And sometimes people are stupid. Perhaps he told her things in confidence because he had a thing for her, not because they had some sort of relationship going.

I would say you're the most rational person in this thread, e-string.

I was going to start the thread you suggested, but I'm hesitant now... after the assinine assumptions made by others. I can imagine what it'd turn into if I did start the thread. People don't want solutions... Like you said, they just want drama.

e-string wrote:

It doesn't matter how models would know who she was talking about or not. It would enable models to avoid him and others like him. Making a thread like I suggested would do no harm whatsoever and could very possibly do some good by giving models information about how to spot a potential predator when the usual GWC signs aren't as obvious because he's an established "professional".

Several posters also said they think they know who she's talking about, and they agreed that he's a problem.

And sometimes people are stupid. Perhaps he told her things in confidence because he had a thing for her, not because they had some sort of relationship going.

As I stated I have no doubt the OP is correct and has a positive agenda for
looking out for models as well as others here who seem to know who this person
is but what if she were up to no good.  Recently I had a shoot in Chicago where
a model for a TFP asked me for $11.00 to cover her parking.  She promised to
give the MUA a ride home.  She left her in the parking lot after having her get
the money.  Lets say she decided to say some negative things about me. 
Without the other model and the MUA, people might believe her without hearing
from me.  Thats the problem with these threads we just don't know.  Star a
well known photographer here had a negative thread started where a model
outright lied on her.  Star was able to prove she lied but what if she couldn't. What
if it hurt her business?  As far as this person being a criminal.  Contact the police
and the mods.  I think professionals must be careful in what they say about
other professionals.  If someone has wronged you in a criminal way then the
police first and MM mods after.  These open threads just have too much
bullshit and gossip to be trusted.  However don't let me deter any who want to
spread lies or half truths.  Its all good until its you someones talking about.

Tony Lawrence wrote:
These open threads just have too much
bullshit and gossip to be trusted.

And that is why I have not mentioned any names, or responded to anyones assumptions.

Rossi Photography wrote:

And that is why I have not mentioned any names.

and that speaks well of you it really does.  Truth is I've read many of your threads
and find you to be a intelligent and fair person.  There is a female photographer
in Chicago who is quite good.  She's also quite crazy I mean she's a nut for sure.
Various people who've worked with her found her strange and her posts are full of
anger, spite and are always odd.  Yet I have never said one bad thing about her to
anyone nor would I and for certain I would never name her on a open forum. 
If she were stealing from people or hurting models then I'd encourage models to call
the police.  This story is only to illustrate that gossip even when true often serves
no purpose.  All the models who shoot with her are adults and can handle themselves.  I'm not always sure of how to handle people who do funky stuff.
I know a photographer who gets models to pose nude by telling them he can
hook them up with paid work or magazines.  He can't but he's pretty convincing
several models have become angry later but all were adults and able to fend for
themselves.  Should we report the bad behavior of our peers?  Maybe but we
must make sure our motives are clear and out intentions pure.

Rossi Photography wrote:

I would say you're the most rational person in this thread, e-string.

I was going to start the thread you suggested, but I'm hesitant now... after the assinine assumptions made by others. I can imagine what it'd turn into if I did start the thread. People don't want solutions... Like you said, they just want drama.

Ummm you put the drama out there, no one knows if your all speaking of the same person or not. Assanine assumptions? Those would be real questions your gonna have to answer. Period ...."If" what you say is true and it happened just like you said, why didn't you go to the police? Nothing about this story makes sense other than someone is not telling the whole story.

DigitalCMH wrote:
Only if it's not true.

actually that's not tru....

a gay women could be called gay and sue....

tho she is gay/lesbian... that has nothin to do wit the lawsuit....

strange law.... legal concept

Hadyn Lassiter wrote:
Ummm you put the drama out there, no one knows if your all speaking of the same person or not. Assanine assumptions? Those would be real questions your gonna have to answer. Period ...."If" what you say is true and it happened just like you said, why didn't you go to the police? Nothing about this story makes sense other than someone is not telling the whole story.

Well, Haydn darling... Whoever I may have to answer to it certainly isn't going to be you.

Rossi Photography wrote:

Well, Haydn darling... Whoever I may have to answer to it certainly isn't going to be you.

oh snap!

Rossi Photography wrote:

Well, Haydn darling... Whoever I may or may not have to answer to it certainly isn't going to be you.

Its not me you need to worry about there sporto. I personaly think your not telling the whole truth, else why not answer the question "did you go back to his studio after the short issue for any reason other than to bring the police" and how many times did you go back there? but thats just me.

e-string wrote:

oh snap!

any dime store lawyer is gonna eat her up in court believe that snaps.

Hadyn Lassiter wrote:

any dime store lawyer is gonna eat her up in court believe that snaps.

I don't really put much stock in the intelligence of people who can't spell "you're" correctly.

Maxwell Digital Art wrote:
the last two finger of my right hand are shorter than used to be, that is where the puncuation is....    dont make me stupid, just crippled

Well I wasn't talking to you, so as long as you can type "youre" instead of "your" when intending to say "you are", that's acceptable.

Jay Bowman wrote:
you would be in any way associated with him afterwawds  -even remotely-  simply seems odd.

See... that's where people are throwing in their own assumptions and making up their own story. Not once in any of my posts did I say associated with him "after".

e-string wrote:

I don't really put much stock in the intelligence of people who can't spell "you're" correctly.

When you don't have anything else worthwhile to say attack the spelling,very deep that. One point in question,
  Rossi says she was a model and now a photographer. So I would think some period of time has elapsed between the shorts issue and now the outing attempt.
So she has been using his studio since the "attack" but now feel it's time to call this person a pervert. How much time has elapsed since the pulling of your shorts down and this open letter calling someone a pervert?
Does any of this seem strange to anyone here?
I have a daughter who is 13 and if someone did what you say this person did he would not look on the light of day again.
I don't put much stock in someone who pushes someone else to get into a legal fight without putting her money into the battle. Are you going to help pay her legal fees or just run your fingers here with two bit advice off the cuff solutions and sisterly back patting?
Just because you can type does not mean you have something to say E.
No matter how I spell you still found it close enough to read and understand what I wrote as you responded to it. Being a MM diva or professional forum hound means little to me E, put your money into her legal fund and I will take notice of what you have to offer.
Me asking the same questions any lawyer is going to or even her friend the judge does not make me hostile to her, perhaps you should be asking her these questions before doling out your inane group hug.