bang bang photo wrote:
Jump! Jump! JUMP! CHICKEN! JUMP!

huh?

jason messer wrote:

i dont see anything wrong in saying...i shot with (insert name here) and it just wasnt a good time. 

the more words like that get out....the more he will be outed as a douchebag.

whats wrong with saying i had a bad experience with ****.  email me, ill tell you the deal as a ref.

dont take any shit.  if someone is a dickhead....dont be afraid to tell them.

unless youre talkng about me.  in that case....keep quiet.

I guess you are assuming that there are no models that are dickheads. I had one incident with a model that if you heard her story you would probably think I was doing something "wrong" but if the truth be know it was nothing like what she has told people on MM. So here I am trying to perhaps undo something that could hurt any future shoots models because of false allegations. And of course if I would try to defend myself, it would sound like I am just making stuff up or making excuses.

Not all models are angels either!

Hadyn Lassiter wrote:
How did I try to make it something other than what you posted? I do feel and this is just me that you two were alot closer than you say. Your on his computer, your using his studio, you shot with him. People share studios here as well, I let others use mine at times but not someone I don't know. Thats the part I find strange,that were close and now your not. Did you go to or use his studio after he pulled your shorts down? For whatever reason.

Hayden.....  you want to make this more than it is..... he is known to most photogrphers and he is what he is. as long as there are models that are new there will always be those types. I know Jodi and she has a Rockin Body.... But that does not give ANYONE the right to pull her pants down. And if you want to believe they were involved.... NOPE guarentee that was NOT the case. As for sharing studios... That happens here all the time. My studio gets used more by others than myself. We help each other out... Not pants them for any reason... And as far as the computer thing... I have mine out all the time and if someone looks they will not find any sneaky shit.......  I am totally with jodi on this   SHE WAS WRONGED   So now lets move on....   She doesnt deserve you trying to say or hinting she had some sort of other interest in him... relationship....

Please lets move on.....

jason messer wrote:
huh?

You know -- when the suicide jumper is teetering on the edge of the 12th floor roof, and the crowd is yelling at him from below to jump. . . .

It's easy to give advice to someone else to be bold -- someone else who will have to live with the consequences of the actions, while we get to go on about our business without having to worry about a thing.

Please read what I wrote on this subject earlier in the thread. If you publicly accuse somebody of being a pervert in this day and age and can't back it up with credible, solid evidence, be prepared to have your OWN house taken down one brick at a time if they decide to fight back, and who wouldn't?

It's easy to be tough and tell people to go ahead and do it -- when no matter what happens, YOU won't get hurt. That's why I draw the line where I do -- if it's a crime, it's a law enforcement matter. If it's not a crime, then. . . . it's not a crime!

That's what I meant. Sorry if I wasn't clear.

Paul

e-string wrote:
I had a great idea and it got totally ignored. All you people want is drama.

I didn't ignore it. It's a good idea.

Rossi Photography wrote:

I didn't ignore it. It's a good idea.

Ok, so do it! haha. I'm just curious about what sort of tricksy things he told you.

Larry E. Hayes wrote:
If you ever want to expose any photographer or model as being a fruad, first make sure you have a lot of excess money you do not want to keep and a very good lawyer on retainer. Then feel free to expose away. Otherwise keep your comments out of print.

My first question to you, if what you say is true, why did you not call 911 right away? If you had the problem would have been solved a long time ago.

Um.. I don't think 911 is for people who get depantsed.

e-string wrote:

Um.. I don't think 911 is for people who get depantsed.

Larry E. Hayes wrote:
Unless the photog has permission to touch you in any, it can be considered assault. Yes removing ones pants could be considered sexual assault. If the victim feels it is an assault, than it is.

I suppose that's true. It still seems a bit silly for some reason. I'm trying to imagine the scene of the police showing up to deal with a guy who pulled down her shorts. lol. I think most sexual assault cases are generally reported after the fact.

GLB Graphics wrote:
Someone needs to design a "scumasspervertguywithcamera.com" web site...

All kidding aside... Just how do we expose and warn models about guys like this?

Gary

e-string wrote:

I suppose that's true. It still seems a bit silly for some reason. I'm trying to imagine the scene of the police showing up to deal with a guy who pulled down her shorts. lol. I think most sexual assault cases are generally reported after the fact.

PapaVic Photography wrote:
I'm confused.

Right now it seems to me that the OP was sharing the photographer in question's studio/computer/etc. and did some photography with him, and then after she stopped sharing the studio/computer/etc. the photographer suddenly became a GWC and she remembered that he pulled down her pants at one point some weeks ago (before she stopped using his studio? after?).

Is it genuine assault between aquaintences by a shady pervert?  Is it a lover's spat?  Is it revenge for being dumped?  Is it slander by a professional rival? We may never know as the OP has not been especially forthcoming when asked about specifics, and we only know -one- side of this story.

To the OP: these are some the entirely legitimate questions you can expect by objective observers regarding your claims, should you decide to push the issue.  If you aren't prepared to answer them forthrightly, perhaps you should let the matter drop and let the gentleman with whom you have a beef sink or swim on his own merit.

What he said.

Rossi Photography wrote:
I wonder, so I'll ask you.

There's a guy who calls himself a photographer here in the Detroit area. Who is known by most of the legit photographers for what he really is. Every person I've ever mentioned him to all say the same thing. But he has a way of manipulating the models. I know this firsthand because this guy has confided in me some things I don't think he'd ever want his models to know. And I made the mistake of letting him photograph me (before I knew what he is) and that did not go well. Some of you may've read about what happened in another thread. Long story short... in the middle of the shoot, he snuck behind me when I wasn't looking and pulled down my shorts.

Someone (can't remember who) posted in another thread describing him to a tee, saying these guys view the shoot as a date of sort, etc... I'll have to go find the post.

And I also question him in other areas, such as once I was at his place and I found in his computer MY photos. He saved them from my blog. I questioned him on it and he said, "Oh, I just wanted to see what you did, how you shot them...". Bullshit! I also noticed he had many, MANY females pictures saved from their myspace pages. That was a bit weird.

Now, is it right or wrong if I, or someone else, were to expose this guy to the modeling/photog community? Say on a message board such as this?

What'd you think? Would it be wrong to name him publicly? I'm not saying I'm going to. Just curious.

I just wanted to address the bolded section. It's not odd (I don't think) to save a model's photos. I often do so.. I have a folder on my computer with my 'model wish-list' where I save a few photos of each model I am interested in shooting with eventually.

But the odd part is why the heck were you on his computer.. I don't make it a habit to allow models to riffle through my files.. Girlfriends can do this. Or some of my regular models might be on my computer browsing her photos we just took while I am cleaning up or something.. but just random models don't get to do that. Were you more than just a model to this guy?

EDIT: Sorry, I guess I should have read a little bit further before responding.

John Jebbia wrote:

I just wanted to address the bolded section. It's not odd (I don't think) to save a model's photos. I often do so.. I have a folder on my computer with my 'model wish-list' where I save a few photos of each model I am interested in shooting with eventually.

But the odd part is why the heck were you on his computer.. I don't make it a habit to allow models to riffle through my files.. Girlfriends can do this. Or some of my regular models might be on my computer browsing her photos we just took while I am cleaning up or something.. but just random models don't get to do that. Were you more than just a model to this guy?

EDIT: Sorry, I guess I should have read a little bit further before responding.

I feel your initial response is a valid one and your hunch that there's -much- more to this story than has been revealed here is shared by several others who have been following this thread.

Rossi Photography wrote:
I wonder, so I'll ask you.

There's a guy who calls himself a photographer here in the Detroit area. Who is known by most of the legit photographers for what he really is. Every person I've ever mentioned him to all say the same thing. But he has a way of manipulating the models. I know this firsthand because this guy has confided in me some things I don't think he'd ever want his models to know. And I made the mistake of letting him photograph me (before I knew what he is) and that did not go well. Some of you may've read about what happened in another thread. Long story short... in the middle of the shoot, he snuck behind me when I wasn't looking and pulled down my shorts.

Someone (can't remember who) posted in another thread describing him to a tee, saying these guys view the shoot as a date of sort, etc... I'll have to go find the post.

And I also question him in other areas, such as once I was at his place and I found in his computer MY photos. He saved them from my blog. I questioned him on it and he said, "Oh, I just wanted to see what you did, how you shot them...". Bullshit! I also noticed he had many, MANY females pictures saved from their myspace pages. That was a bit weird.

Now, is it right or wrong if I, or someone else, were to expose this guy to the modeling/photog community? Say on a message board such as this?

What'd you think? Would it be wrong to name him publicly? I'm not saying I'm going to. Just curious.

mary duprie wrote:
it's easy to say check references......that's easy to say......i just had a photographer deleted yesterday that was using 11 of my images on his site.....he had been on for 1 month...contacting models.......

interesting enough he conned his was into assisting a very good photographer in LA.....i emailed quite a bit with this legit photographer and the model.....they both said they were suspicious........

I had a makeup talk on the phone with him for 45 minutes.....what crap he spewed!!

he "WAS" going to ask for id but didn't......so what chance do models have.....

when was the last time a photographer was killed, raped, assaulted ect by hooking up with a model......

this guy now has pics on his computer that he downloaded from the shoot....

the photographer said.....well at least he didn't steal anything.......oh how wrong he is!!!

did i find out info on this guy before they just deleted his profile.......i sure did!!!

in the LA area and want to know???

these guys are like flys.....you cannot just schew them away......you must kill them!!

"figuritively speaking ofcourse"

mary

This is precisely why I include my own photo on my website and model mayhem.

Ought To Be Shot wrote:

Agreed... I'm no lawyer, but naming him might be considered slander on your part.

It wouldn't be slander (or libel)  if it's true, but I agree, just to avoid the headache of him retaliating in some form or another, it's better to not.

Rossi Photography wrote:

Yeah, that was my main reason for posting. I don't want to go the route of the 'he said, she said' bit. But... what do we do? Ya' know what I'm saying? Or do we do nothing and just let these people bury themself? I dunno'...

I also work both sides of the camera, and as a model, I simply put in my port all the photogs I've worked with and include a statement that anyone with questions about the photogs I've worked with are welcomed to message me.  Fortunately it's only been one photographer that I've had any major trouble with.

bang bang photo wrote:

If you take the information public you better be prepared for a fight, and have lots of evidence. Back someone into a corner and they'll fight -- it's just human nature. You could easily end up facing a defamation of character suit, and it's my understanding (I'm not a lawyer) that the rules of evidence in a civil case are not the same as in a criminal case -- all he has to do is show the preponderence of the evidence is in his favor.

A lot of what you listed as "a bit weird" may be weird, but it's not necessarily illegal or actionable either. I mean, how many people have had their pants pulled down as a bit of innocent horseplay between friends? I'm NOT justifying the guy by any means, but when you publicly accuse someone of wrong-doing you force them to chose between accepting public humiliation and being labeled as a pervert with all the consequences, or coming after you hard to try to salvage their own reputation. The best way to shut you down is to damage YOUR reputation, so if you have any skeletons in the closet yourself, they're coming out. If he gets a good lawyer, he will make your life totally miserable, even if you ultimately "win," which is by no means a certain thing in these kinds of cases.

So my advice: Think twice. If he's done something illegal that you have personally witnessed or have strong evidence of, take it to the authorities and let them prosecute him. If not, I'm not sure what the point is.

Again, I'm not a lawyer, and I don't even play one on TV, so this isn't legal advice. . . .

Paul

SOOOOOOOOOOOO true and PERFECTLY said Paul...  I had a similar situation a couple years ago with someone in the weight loss community who was coming into an online group that I run under different names accusing me of insurance fraud as relates to my having needed reconstructive surgeries after losing a lot of weight.  Needless to say, I "outed her" and all hell broke lose.  Even though I didn't do anything illegal and had LOTS of proof indicating that it was her, it didn't stop her from harassing me for over a year including filing frivilous and wrongful small claims lawsuits against me (one that she purposely had served to me 3 days after my 2nd round of surgery right after my husband moved across country and 1 day before I had to move out of our condo).  It was a VERY hectic time in my life and she played on it big time...  Yes, definately better to just report it to the powers that be if there are powers that be that is, and then hope that the idiot will get his just punishment...

Darker-Side of-Midnight wrote:
Stuff like this never happens at my shoots..... am I being to nice??

e-string wrote:
I had a great idea and it got totally ignored. All you people want is drama.

Hey there
I saw your idea too, and personally, I think it's a GREAT one!!!!!  Yes, we need to write about those we WILL shoot with and then the rest can be assumed that we wouldn't shoot with the others.
Caroline