Olesja Mueller wrote:
I did a fashion TFCD shoot with a model, and now she wants to get all the pix from it to see if she can find something else for her book than what I have already picked and retouched (about 25 shots, some of them you can see in my port at the top). She says it's OK that they are not retouched, she just wants to see some more poses, etc. I think it's not OK, as the light was far from perfect (outdoors hoot) and I had to do quite a bit of levels, curves, contrast, etc. to make it look good.
I care about my reputation as a photog and I am not crazy about the idea. However, she is really bugging me now:)))) What would you do?

HELP!)

Tell her she's a model, and therefore has no taste, so she better trust your judgement.

Sarah_LasVegas wrote:
I personally always require photographers to give me a copy of all images done from a shoot for two reasons:

1.  Same as your model- to see if there are any other images that may be beneficial to my portfolio.

2.  Also, I know what images you, the photographer, have in your possession, so if anything pops up in the future (ie my face on a naked body), I know where it came from and who shot it.

This may seem inconvenient or silly to you, but perhaps you can express your concern for having "unapproved" or "unedited" images you took used for her portfolio, as it may tarnish your reputation.  Same goes for her side of the deal, she wouldn't want you to use unapproved images of herself.......

i delete every thing else that i do not like how could a photographer give you all the photos if they do not exist

" Also, I know what images you, the photographer, have in your possession, so if anything pops up in the future (ie my face on a naked body), I know where it came from and who shot it."

we photographers own the copy right to ALL the photos and if you seined the paper well if a photographer dues than your SOL and have no right to tell any one what to do with their property

Sarah_LasVegas wrote:

I always read my releases very carefully before I even shoot with a photographer and I ALWAYS reserve the right to approve images that are used for any reason (this sometimes means writing a new release), so if that photographer uses images of me, or a part of an image of me, then I can pursue legal action.  Hopefully, taking precautions such as this will ensure that this never happens to me and I will always seem paranoid but it is better than being sorry!!!!

note to self never photo this person too much a pane in the ass

Steve  Cottrill wrote:
* not worth commenting on any further than what others have already said.  Model gets what I give her. Any that email me, and say they "demand" all, let alone "anything", gets sent to the trash bin..............I'm not working with anyone that "demands" anything of me. (one reason I divorced.....lol)

i 2nd (unless your paying me $$ then your wish is my comand lol )

Sarah_LasVegas wrote:
I personally always require photographers to give me a copy of all images done from a shoot for two reasons:

1.  Same as your model- to see if there are any other images that may be beneficial to my portfolio.

2.  Also, I know what images you, the photographer, have in your possession, so if anything pops up in the future (ie my face on a naked body), I know where it came from and who shot it.

This may seem inconvenient or silly to you, but perhaps you can express your concern for having "unapproved" or "unedited" images you took used for her portfolio, as it may tarnish your reputation.  Same goes for her side of the deal, she wouldn't want you to use unapproved images of herself.......

Sarah,

The fact that you *already* have photos of your face on the web means that *any* skilled graphic artist can put your "face on a naked body."  This wouldn't implicate the photographer in the least.

And the fact that you would require all shots from a shoot would make a number of photographers just not hire you.

Peace,
Tony

Sarah_LasVegas wrote:

I always read my releases very carefully before I even shoot with a photographer and I ALWAYS reserve the right to approve images that are used for any reason (this sometimes means writing a new release), so if that photographer uses images of me, or a part of an image of me, then I can pursue legal action.  Hopefully, taking precautions such as this will ensure that this never happens to me and I will always seem paranoid but it is better than being sorry!!!!

Sarah, anyone can take your head (from a copyrighted professional photographer's photo even) and put it on someone else for purposes of satire.  It's legal even, and happens to celebrities ALL THE TIME.  (And I'm not talking always porn shots, but any satirical or parodied works, from Time to MAD to Playboy to hundreds of other publications.)

Meagan M Power wrote:
I definitely think you should!  I always ask for all of mine.  I like to see the bad ones, because then I know what worked, what didn't, what pose looked good, which one I shouls never attempt again.  If you do give them to her, write a contract on your comp first.  Simply state that you have a 50 percent ownership of the photos and therefore must approve photos before they are printed.  It is a legally binding contract and if she wants them, she will sign.

Oh great another one..... Why is anyone entitled to joint ownership of the images a photographer shot, unless someone buys rights? What is wrong with viewing them at the studio before you leave?

Glenn Francis wrote:
Give em to her. Your first priority in business should be to make friends, not piss everyone off.

-Glenn

well said

Jessalyn_54 wrote:
I totally agree with this. A lot of photographers are stating "well I don't want the model posting my terrible work out there" well a model has to deal with a photographer posting HER terrible work out there and she has nothing to say about it! There are a few pictures out there on photographers ports that I do NOT like. They aren't flattering in one way or another. I had no say in it. I did ask nicely that one photographer take down a picture that made my thigh look HUGE but he said "oh no it doesn't, I'm leaving it up". There was another where you could see RIGHT up my nose and I didn't like it, but the photographer wouldn't take it down. So both of our reputations are at stake here and sometimes neither the model nor the photographer knows what they are talking about! if a photographer posts a picture of me that I don't like then I won't link to him (that's assuming I've asked him to take it down and he refuses)

I think you raise a good point. I expect a model to respect my decision to keep certain pics from public view. I think its equally important for me to respect a models wish to keep certain images from public view. Only pics that we both agree on should be made public. I think thats a situation where both the model and the photographer win. I also think that its a good way to develop good working relationships with people.

Olesja Mueller wrote:
I did a fashion TFCD shoot with a model, and now she wants to get all the pix from it to see if she can find something else for her book than what I have already picked and retouched (about 25 shots, some of them you can see in my port at the top). She says it's OK that they are not retouched, she just wants to see some more poses, etc. I think it's not OK, as the light was far from perfect (outdoors hoot) and I had to do quite a bit of levels, curves, contrast, etc. to make it look good.
I care about my reputation as a photog and I am not crazy about the idea. However, she is really bugging me now:)))) What would you do?

HELP!)

most of the time the photographers don't choose the best pix from the shoot-that is why.
plus-we are working for images-why should we not get them?
but who cares what i say-i'm just some model.......blahblahblaaahhh.

Olesja Mueller wrote:
I did a fashion TFCD shoot with a model, and now she wants to get all the pix from it to see if she can find something else for her book than what I have already picked and retouched (about 25 shots, some of them you can see in my port at the top). She says it's OK that they are not retouched, she just wants to see some more poses, etc. I think it's not OK, as the light was far from perfect (outdoors hoot) and I had to do quite a bit of levels, curves, contrast, etc. to make it look good.
I care about my reputation as a photog and I am not crazy about the idea. However, she is really bugging me now:)))) What would you do?

HELP!) [/quot
DON'T  give her all of the images thats stupid just retouch another image to make her shut up

MadamePsychosis wrote:
just dont take them home with you.

Promise to remind me of that FREQUENTLY. lol

Olesja Mueller wrote:
I did a fashion TFCD shoot with a model, and now she wants to get all the pix from it to see if she can find something else for her book than what I have already picked and retouched (about 25 shots, some of them you can see in my port at the top). She says it's OK that they are not retouched, she just wants to see some more poses, etc. I think it's not OK, as the light was far from perfect (outdoors hoot) and I had to do quite a bit of levels, curves, contrast, etc. to make it look good.
I care about my reputation as a photog and I am not crazy about the idea. However, she is really bugging me now:)))) What would you do?

HELP!)

Had the same issue. Model wanted ALL the shots, good, bad, out of focus, eyes closed, etc. I simply sent her what I wanted. This included a bunch of TIFFS (not Photoshopped a lot) but sharpened and touched a bit. How would she know the difference? I'm with you. I don't want any less than excellent work out there. Don't stress yourself. Give her what you want to.

If your model signed my contract she would know that while she gets photos I still have rights to the photos.

BTW, great port.

Steve

Lost Coast Photo wrote:
A very wise friend of mine once said that the difference between an amateur photographer and a serious photographer is that the amateur photographer shows everybody *all* of their images.

He's a producer for one of the big TV networks, so just possibly he might know what he's talking about?

Unless the TV network is NBC.

Sarah_LasVegas wrote:

I always read my releases very carefully before I even shoot with a photographer and I ALWAYS reserve the right to approve images that are used for any reason (this sometimes means writing a new release), so if that photographer uses images of me, or a part of an image of me, then I can pursue legal action.  Hopefully, taking precautions such as this will ensure that this never happens to me and I will always seem paranoid but it is better than being sorry!!!!

Meagan M Power wrote:
I definitely think you should!  I always ask for all of mine.  I like to see the bad ones, because then I know what worked, what didn't, what pose looked good, which one I shouls never attempt again.  If you do give them to her, write a contract on your comp first.  Simply state that you have a 50 percent ownership of the photos and therefore must approve photos before they are printed.  It is a legally binding contract and if she wants them, she will sign.

Jesus Fucking Christ and his Camel, Joe!

John Jebbia wrote:
Jesus Fucking Christ and his Camel, Joe!

Wouldn't be surprised to see a half-cropped escort in the background of some of those. I wonder if he gets 50% of the copyright, too.

Sarah_LasVegas wrote:
I personally always require photographers to give me a copy of all images done from a shoot for two reasons:

1.  Same as your model- to see if there are any other images that may be beneficial to my portfolio.

2.  Also, I know what images you, the photographer, have in your possession, so if anything pops up in the future (ie my face on a naked body), I know where it came from and who shot it.

This may seem inconvenient or silly to you, but perhaps you can express your concern for having "unapproved" or "unedited" images you took used for her portfolio, as it may tarnish your reputation.  Same goes for her side of the deal, she wouldn't want you to use unapproved images of herself.......

I have never heard of a internet model finding her head on another girls naked body!  With so many nude models available what is the need?  Its not like there is a celebrity status that everyone would want to see that...Now I have heard of models getting a full copy CD of images from the photographer with the understanding that nothing gets posted without being first edited and copyrighted only for that model to break the agreement...that has happened to me three times already.  Unfortunately for models, once bit twice shy, when it comes to upholding their end of the arrangements.  In any case what you agree upon prior to the shoot should be what is in order.
G

Olesja Mueller wrote:
I did a fashion TFCD shoot with a model, and now she wants to get all the pix from it to see if she can find something else for her book than what I have already picked and retouched (about 25 shots, some of them you can see in my port at the top).

25 shots seems like plenty to me!

Ryoga Vee wrote:
As a model and a graphic designer I tend to want ALL images. Just because an image does not look up to par or standard to the photographer, does not man that I as a designer cant use it for some other artistic project.

I personally feel that if it’s TFP, I’m entitled to everything shot. The only time that I don’t feel that’s the case is when money is changing hands. Thus, I’m being paid for my time, and that is the arrangement. If I get photos back, that’s just a bonus.

This matter should be common sense. But I hear stories all the time of models not getting photos back from shoots. Apparently it’s an issue and I guess it always will be.

Contracts people, contracts. Specify a number of guaranteed photos that will be delivered to the model in X amount of days. And please, be generous and go above that. If you are not confident that all your shots are not going to be perfect, then maybe then is not the profession for you.

~ Ryoga

Maybe you should find another profession, because no matter how good the photographer is, there will always be throwaways. Geez!

Sarah_LasVegas wrote:
I personally always require photographers to give me a copy of all images done from a shoot...

The problem with "requiring" anything is that it's going to mostly limit you to shooting with people who feel that they're not in a very strong negotiating position; and a shoot is, ideally, the product of a negotiation.

Dictating terms may stroke the ego, but it probably isn't going to get you the best possible images.  Let's say a moderately experienced model has a list of requirements, and so gets offers mostly from inexperienced or insecure photographers.  Or an experienced  photographer will only work with models under certain conditions, again tending to cull out the more experienced or more in demand models who are in a position to be selective.  The more experienced person may, if they're really good, pull the the newbie up a few notches.  But at a minimum, it's a lot of work to do that.  And just as often, the newbie is going to constrain the quality of the shoot.  The photographer may not have his technique quite down yet, or the model may have a limited range of expression and stiff poses.

The pairing of near equals often produces those memorable shots, those images that pop, the product of true collaboration.  However that means checking the egos at the door.  That means expressing what each party desires out of the shoot, and then negotiating a mutually agreeable scenario.  If either party demands certain things, the shoot may never happen.

So what's more important, getting every image no matter how mediocre, or getting a few top quality images?

Ryoga Vee wrote:
If you are not confident that all your shots are not going to be perfect, then maybe then is not the profession for you.

~ Ryoga

If models knew anything about holding a pose and facial expression maybe we would'nt have to dump so many shots...if your going to call yourself a professional model you had best know what your doing...

When it comes to providing images on a test...I edit all of the very best shots...the trash gets deleted...the inbetweeners I will send to the model if they request it...with a large translucent "PROOF" across the image so that they can review their work.