RRCPhoto wrote:

A good calibrated monitor is half the battle...talk to some of your photofinishing places that deal with pros in your area..some of them will have a calibration service that they do if you can't afford to get a Spyder to do it.

thanks I will check into that!!

Visions Of Excess Studi wrote:
It's simple. Unless I'm being contracted out and paid, this is a non-issue. Copyright is mine and a model isn't going to dictate terms to me. So, I guess the ones who think they can just won't work with me. And, our poster from LV will discover most photographers will have the same policy.

Very good, Girls who want to become models will understand this but the wannabe girls out there will not. Give them what you want to give them if they want more well it's up to you on that one. But we as photographers have more rights to the image than the model unless we are paid so take that into concideration as well don't be pushed arround.....

Darkdesire wrote:
Thats how I learn that it was not a piece of cake! One of my first photographers sat me down and educated me on the work, and we played around in photoshop, and we tore down the studio. Plus lets not mention how much photographers spend on the camera lights, and any other gear! Studios too! I think I should be lucky if I work with a photography tfp when he does outstanding work.

Actually in case someone thought that 15K figure was out to lunch, I just did a quick add up of mine...$15,490 between studio and on location gear.  Not including computer system and printer, ink etc.  and I bought most of it off of ebay

RRCPhoto wrote:

Actually in case someone thought that 15K figure was out to lunch, I just did a quick add up of mine...$15,490 between studio and on location gear.  Not including computer system and printer, ink etc.  and I bought most of it off of ebay

Yea I know I'm going broke trying to get all my stuff together! lol

Darkdesire wrote:

thanks I will check into that!!

not a problem - also check ebay for used ones.  You can sometimes find them on there.

RRCPhoto wrote:

not a problem - also check ebay for used ones.  You can sometimes find them on there.

I have a camera already, lights reflectors, and other thinsg is what I need! I also need a laptop so I have a computer when I travel. I'm lucky that at the moment one of my photographers is allowing me to use his stuff in exchange that I shoot tfp for him.

Darkdesire wrote:

Yea I know I'm going broke trying to get all my stuff together! lol

I know the feeling....I have to work overtime just to afford the equipment..I was lucky enough to get a 1D Mark II N as a b-day gift..

D.

David Holloway wrote:

I know the feeling....I have to work overtime just to afford the equipment..I was lucky enough to get a 1D Mark II N as a b-day gift..

D.

thats always good.

David Holloway wrote:

I know the feeling....I have to work overtime just to afford the equipment..I was lucky enough to get a 1D Mark II N as a b-day gift..

D.

lucky bast_#$(*#&$#

RRCPhoto wrote:

lucky bast_#$(*#&$#

YEAH BABY!!!!!!!

Darkdesire wrote:

thats always good.

Yes it is..Especially when I am still paying on the almost $20,000 in equipment I currently own and I don't get much time to use it... :-(

David Holloway wrote:

Yes it is..Especially when I am still paying on the almost $20,000 in equipment I currently own and I don't get much time to use it... :-(

that really sucks!!

vanscottie wrote:

OK, sorry Jay, but it certainly SEEMED like you were agreeing that every model should get two CDs and that we should all follow that

My apologies

The Sanctimonious Prick

Hell no, I am every bit as adimant about that as you are.....and many others are....but I at least respect that one particular model for being as honest and considerate as she is about how she uses them, and understanding the reason behind it.....but that still doesn't mean I will support that policy Sorry for the misunderstanding.....your sanctimonious prick standing has been lifted lol...

vanscottie wrote:
The more I read these forums the more I'm convinced that 90% of these forum "discussions" could be ended with this:

If you don't like the model's/photographer's ideas, working arrangement, payment, philosophy, rules, attitude, behavior, demands, escorts, shooting location, skill sets, etc, etc....DON'T WORK WITH THEM!

In all likelihood you aren't going to change him/her and so we're only sitting here identifying which side everyone is on and no one's getting converted, so why bother trying?

Models and photogs are like buses, miss one, another one will come around in a few minutes

See no evil, Hear no evil, Speak no evil?

Kind-a like an ostritch with his head in the sand?

I'd rather think I can make a difference.

Illustrated Imagery wrote:

See no evil, Hear no evil, Speak no evil?

Kind-a like an ostritch with his head in the sand?

I'd rather think I can make a difference.

yeah I see the big mass changing of minds here, and on escort threads, and TFP threads. I'm not sayin we shouldn't discuss, have some fun, but all these threads end in two camps yelling at each other

vanscottie wrote:
In all likelihood you aren't going to change him/her and so we're only sitting here identifying which side everyone is on and no one's getting converted, so why bother trying?

Models and photogs are like buses, miss one, another one will come around in a few minutes

Perhaps, but perhaps not.  If there is no discussion and people don't see it from more than one perspective, then how do we expect them to know?

RRCPhoto wrote:

Perhaps, but perhaps not.  If there is no discussion and people don't see it from more than one perspective, then how do we expect them to know?

Sorry never meant to imply we shouldn't discuss, see above reply. But the idea that we can change someones opinions is a long shot at best and we should pretty much just work with folk we agree with rather than browbeat others to work the way WE want them to work, that's all

Mars Photography wrote:

I think you raise a good point. I expect a model to respect my decision to keep certain pics from public view. I think its equally important for me to respect a models wish to keep certain images from public view. Only pics that we both agree on should be made public. I think thats a situation where both the model and the photographer win. I also think that its a good way to develop good working relationships with people.

Olesja Mueller wrote:
I did a fashion TFCD shoot with a model, and now she wants to get all the pix from it to see if she can find something else for her book than what I have already picked and retouched (about 25 shots, some of them you can see in my port at the top). She says it's OK that they are not retouched, she just wants to see some more poses, etc. I think it's not OK, as the light was far from perfect (outdoors hoot) and I had to do quite a bit of levels, curves, contrast, etc. to make it look good.
I care about my reputation as a photog and I am not crazy about the idea. However, she is really bugging me now:)))) What would you do?

HELP!)

Six pages of comments on a subject that should be obvious? For tfp/cd you only give the model what you agreed to give her/him in the first place. It's your work.

Illustrated Imagery wrote:
I've seen comments where a model complains about getting ONLY 10, 15. or 20 images from a shoot or less. If you were paying for my services and prints and had to purchase 10,15,or 20 images from me you'd spend well over 1k for those images, retouched and studio time.

So I'd say you got one hell of a deal.

Folks there has to be preceived value from bothsides of the isle. If not then like I here on a daily basis from prospective portrait clients when they call is...Duh how much does an 8x10 cost. I want to respond by saying, Do want that sheet of paper in white or gray or would you like an image on it?

You make it sound like you are doing the model a favor, but you would have not photo with out a model. How about you figure in the models time. $30 - $50 - $70 an hour? Travel expenses. The difficulty of being in hard back breaking contorted positions. Or being suspended upside-down for over an hour (just my experience).
It’s a give and take. If you don’t want to give model a photo (or X amount), then you need to pay for her / his time in proper compensation (i.e. money). As it goes, IMO, when money changes hands, I that’s my pay. Anything above that is bonus.

But let’s go back to the root of this topic. Is a model entitled to "all" the photos in a TFP scenario?
Frankly, I say yes, or at lease a large majority of the shoot. That’s the deal, unless otherwise noted.   
Stop making it seem like the model is nothing more than an expendable asset or a second class citizen. The arrogance of “some” of you photographers is astounding. You sound like bullies, the bunch of you. “I’m photographer” “I’m my expensive camera” “I shoot it I own it” “I don’t have to show it to you if I don’t want to”
Jebus, lighten up!

I don’t think it’s too much to ask for a CD of the days work when all is said and done.
Maybe I'm just looking at this differently, maybe because I’m not just a girl that stands there and looks pretty, or maybe because I have more than enough photographers asking for my time (not tooting my horn).

Mars Photography wrote:

I think you raise a good point. I expect a model to respect my decision to keep certain pics from public view. I think its equally important for me to respect a models wish to keep certain images from public view. Only pics that we both agree on should be made public. I think thats a situation where both the model and the photographer win. I also think that its a good way to develop good working relationships with people.

It does not matter what the Model DOES NOT LIKE - when I post photos of MY work,. I am not selecting photos to make HER look BAD OR GOOD I am selecting photos to show MY work in a positive light,.. NOBODY is going to tell me what I can use and I own the copyright to it - The Mona Lisa model may not have liked that "slick smile" he painted of her but guess what - TOUGH! The painting is prob still the worlds most famous painting!!

I have been doing photography for years and models FEMALE MODELS may not like ANY NUMBER OF THINGS about a photo that only THEY and their EGO can see,.. it is hard being a girl,.. I have girls come in the studio ALL THE TIME,. drop-dead beautiful,. "other women" even compliment them [you know how hard that is for most women] and they STILL say "I have so many things wrong with me!"  - I tell them that there are women who are doing drugs, purging, lypo. suco and any other "o" to look "like them" so be satisfied with who you are!

Why would I let people like THAT tell ME what I should use in my portfolio or show of my work?

I on the other hand see beauty in all women thin to full figured,. my job is to bring that beauty out and capture it.  If I was like most women I would have only ONE TYPE OF MODEL I would WANT to shoot and then I would find something wrong with her........ it is never-ending silly if you think like THAT.

Models - know YOUR PLACE,. MODELS NEVER PICK FINAL PRINTS FOR MAGS, ADVERTISEMENTS, NEWSPAPERS, PACKAGING or the design of clothing for FASHION SHOWS [nobody in the industry {from agents to designers} cares what models think... just freaking "MODEL"]  -- but they {Models} think they can tell PHOTOGRAPHERS everything!

Photographers, respect your trade profession and yourself,. know that YOU are the LEAD in your work and FEDERAL LAW supports that and the FASHION INDUSTRY as well,... have a contract and be in total control of your work for TFCD.

Ryoga Vee wrote:

You make it sound like you are doing the model a favor, but you would have not photo with out a model. How about you figure in the models time. $30 - $50 - $70 an hour? Travel expenses. The difficulty of being in hard back breaking contorted positions. Or being suspended upside-down for over an hour (just my experience).
It’s a give and take. If you don’t want to give model a photo (or X amount), then you need to pay for her / his time in proper compensation (i.e. money). As it goes, IMO, when money changes hands, I that’s my pay. Anything above that is bonus.

But let’s go back to the root of this topic. Is a model entitled to "all" the photos in a TFP scenario?
Frankly, I say yes, or at lease a large majority of the shoot. That’s the deal, unless otherwise noted.   
Stop making it seem like the model is nothing more than an expendable asset or a second class citizen. The arrogance of “some” of you photographers is astounding. You sound like bullies, the bunch of you. “I’m photographer” “I’m my expensive camera” “I shoot it I own it” “I don’t have to show it to you if I don’t want to”
Jebus, lighten up!

I don’t think it’s too much to ask for a CD of the days work when all is said and done.
Maybe I'm just looking at this differently, maybe because I’m not just a girl that stands there and looks pretty, or maybe because I have more than enough photographers asking for my time (not tooting my horn).

You obviously missed this..."Folks there has to be preceived value from both sides of the isle."

Ryoga Vee wrote:
You make it sound like you are doing the model a favor, but you would have not photo with out a model. How about you figure in the models time. $30 - $50 - $70 an hour? Travel expenses. The difficulty of being in hard back breaking contorted positions. Or being suspended upside-down for over an hour (just my experience).
It’s a give and take. If you don’t want to give model a photo (or X amount), then you need to pay for her / his time in proper compensation (i.e. money). As it goes, IMO, when money changes hands, I that’s my pay. Anything above that is bonus.

And my pay is the images or is my time valueless?  If you don't do your job and I don't get any acceptable prints because of issues with you - do I charge you then for the full shoot?

Let's see - I've seen myself contort into odd positions especially when shooting on location.  Both do - and I've never seen a model carry as much as I do on location either...

Ryoga Vee wrote:
But let’s go back to the root of this topic. Is a model entitled to "all" the photos in a TFP scenario?
Frankly, I say yes, or at lease a large majority of the shoot. That’s the deal, unless otherwise noted.

There isn't a free lunch from this side of the fence either.  Apparently you didn't read the larger msgs on this entire subject.  Nor read what just about every photographer stated as far as handing out unedited pictures and it causing them reputation.  Blame YOUR OWN peers for us not wanting to do that.

Ryoga Vee wrote:
Stop making it seem like the model is nothing more than an expendable asset or a second class citizen. The arrogance of “some” of you photographers is astounding. You sound like bullies, the bunch of you. “I’m photographer” “I’m my expensive camera” “I shoot it I own it” “I don’t have to show it to you if I don’t want to”
Jebus, lighten up!

To be awfully blunt - and no offense - you're not an expendable resource? we all are.  Unless you got a multi-million dollar gig out there, we're all just trying to succeed at this, and if you are - why the hell are you on MM anyways?  And to be really blunt - we spend alot more to be able to make YOU look good than you do.

Ryoga Vee wrote:
I don’t think it’s too much to ask for a CD of the days work when all is said and done.
Maybe I'm just looking at this differently, maybe because I’m not just a girl that stands there and looks pretty, or maybe because I have more than enough photographers asking for my time (not tooting my horn).

Polluting anyone's mind that the only skilled resource that should be paid on a shoot is the model is rediculous. 

vanscottie, my apologies, because posts like that make you look correct and unfortunately very accurate.

Photos by Jerry wrote:
My release form says that model gets copies of all the "finished photographs."  I decide which ones to finish.

I give the model the choice of 2 finished images per look.

Steve Thornton
www.stevethornton.com

Jessie Coleman wrote:
just like you don't like the lighting in some, she may not like her hair/body/facial expression in the ones you chose.  it's only fair she gets to pick out of all of them as you did.  tfp should be 50/50

Arg, I think most of us are saying that the model usually sees contact sheet sized prints to choose from...actually here's from my TFP release:

•    5 or more images from the shoot that the "Photographer" chooses - edited, retouched and optimized for 800 x 600 pixels at 72dpi.
•    20 or more “secondary” images from the shoot – unedited but optimized in 400x300 pixels, in which I (the "Model") can choose 2 to be edited, retouched and optimized to 800x600 pixels at 72dpi.
•    2 of the above edited images of my choosing on 8 x 10 or 9 x 12 photographic stock.

Then usually if the model doesn't have any experience or not alot I also offer to review the entire images with her.  But this way, she (or he) gets the best images quickly - no hassle, can quickly choose their images that she really likes and everyone walks away happy.  And really?  that's about 40 (model) / 60 (photographer) in time.

Jessie Coleman wrote:
just like you don't like the lighting in some, she may not like her hair/body/facial expression in the ones you chose.  it's only fair she gets to pick out of all of them as you did.  tfp should be 50/50

Just as Illustrated Imagery stated in regards to perceived value....If you do a test shoot with a photographer which lasted 4 hours and he now has to go home and do many hours of post production in addition to the 4 hours he already did photographing you, I would disagree with your assessment of a tfp being 50/50. A photographer has more time involved then the model does and IMHO has more to lose by having bad images out there.

Archer Photography KCMO wrote:
It does not matter what the Model DOES NOT LIKE - when I post photos of MY work,. I am not selecting photos to make HER look BAD OR GOOD I am selecting photos to show MY work in a positive light,.. NOBODY is going to tell me what I can use and I own the copyright to it...

...Why would I let people like THAT tell ME what I should use in my portfolio or show of my work?...

...Models - know YOUR PLACE,. MODELS NEVER PICK FINAL PRINTS FOR MAGS, ADVERTISEMENTS, NEWSPAPERS, PACKAGING or the design of clothing for FASHION SHOWS [nobody in the industry {from agents to designers} cares what models think... just freaking "MODEL"]  -- but they {Models} think they can tell PHOTOGRAPHERS everything!

Like I said, you lot of you sound like bullies. As long as you view models as nothing more than an object, then exspect nothing more than second class work. I truely pitty some of you. It actually hurts me to hear some of you talk like this. I know who I will and wont work with in the future. Archer, Im trying really hard not to snap and say something I might regreat but you are pushing me to that point.

No one is saying anything about having a say on what you do or don’t put in your portfolio, that’s your business, on the other end, what I choose to put in mine is my business. I’ve been doing fashion design for the past few years, and I have just as much a stake in what I feel shows myself and my outfits in a certain light.

You as a photographer should “know your place” as you say. You are just taking the photos. I (figurative, I mean as in all models) am the main attraction. If you want to touch up and PS your work to make you look better, fine, go a head, that’s on you. And I (again, models in general) will decide on my end what photos suit me best and what I’ll add to my portfolio and display.

Shoot me, and you are shooting intellectual property. My rights do not end with the push of a button. I shoot with the knowledge that you the photographer will take the images and do what you will with them in reason (sell them, make money recoup for yout time and effort), and I will take my photos and do the same (not selling of course).

Having the ludicrous idea that because you took the photo you are the sole owner and copyright holder is beyond me. Let’s import a hypothetical; you later decide to use my photos in a manner that besmirches my image (i.e. nude, political, religious work). I complain, but you buck that you are the copyright holder and can do whatever you want. I (the model) do have a say, other wise Jessica Alba would have had no case with playboy. But I digress, that's not the point here 

This is where heads but, as artistic as you think you are, you are more the technician, and the model is the artist. And having worked in the gaming industry I know how tech and art butt heads all the time. Two different areas of the brain are at work. Of course you are going to see things differently.

You are right about one thing, models don’t pick finals for mags and the sort, you know why? It’s because they are paid for their time. That’s the deal, end of contract and story. But in the case of TFP (keeping on the topic mind you) if it’s TFP, then that IS the trade. If you don’t like that idea, the start paying your models so you can make the rules. Then you don’t have to worry about what you send or don’t send because you have already met your end of the bargain with payment. 

I hate to be spiteful, but I really hope everyone you have ever worked with see your quote of,
“nobody in the industry cares what models think... just freaking ‘MODEL’”
If that’s how you choose to treat who you work with then so be it, I’ll stay clear of you.

whew.... ok, im done

Ryoga Vee wrote:
You make it sound like you are doing the model a favor, but you would have not photo with out a model. How about you figure in the models time. $30 - $50 - $70 an hour? Travel expenses. The difficulty of being in hard back breaking contorted positions. Or being suspended upside-down for over an hour (just my experience).

You have it backwards. We can always take pictures of trees, rocks, boxes of cereal, even clothes on a pretty lifelike manequin.

On the other hand, without photographers, artists, painters, etc, models can only be one of those live manequins, and those jobs aren't very plentiful.

Sarah_LasVegas wrote:
I personally always require photographers to give me a copy of all images done from a shoot for two reasons:

1.  Same as your model- to see if there are any other images that may be beneficial to my portfolio.

2.  Also, I know what images you, the photographer, have in your possession, so if anything pops up in the future (ie my face on a naked body), I know where it came from and who shot it.

This may seem inconvenient or silly to you, but perhaps you can express your concern for having "unapproved" or "unedited" images you took used for her portfolio, as it may tarnish your reputation.  Same goes for her side of the deal, she wouldn't want you to use unapproved images of herself.......

Some of this is "too bad."  If it is a TFCD shoot, the model cannot "require" all the shots if the photographer doesn't want to give them.  If the model wants to pay for the images or for the shoot, different story.  When a model release is signed, the use of those photos is at the photographer's discretion.

Sarah_LasVegas wrote:
I personally always require photographers to give me a copy of all images done from a shoot for two reasons:

1.  Same as your model- to see if there are any other images that may be beneficial to my portfolio.

2.  Also, I know what images you, the photographer, have in your possession, so if anything pops up in the future (ie my face on a naked body), I know where it came from and who shot it.

This may seem inconvenient or silly to you, but perhaps you can express your concern for having "unapproved" or "unedited" images you took used for her portfolio, as it may tarnish your reputation.  Same goes for her side of the deal, she wouldn't want you to use unapproved images of herself.......

Some of this is "too bad." is it is a TFCD shoot.  the images are owned by the photographer.  If the model want sto pay for them or for the shoot, different story.  If a model release was signed, the use of the images is at the discretion of the photographer.  No model can "require" anything in a TFCD/TFP shoot.

Ryoga Vee wrote:

Like I said, you lot of you sound like bullies. As long as you view models as nothing more than an object, then exspect nothing more than second class work. I truely pitty some of you. It actually hurts me to hear some of you talk like this. I know who I will and wont work with in the future. Archer, Im trying really hard not to snap and say something I might regreat but you are pushing me to that point.

No one is saying anything about having a say on what you do or don’t put in your portfolio, that’s your business, on the other end, what I choose to put in mine is my business. I’ve been doing fashion design for the past few years, and I have just as much a stake in what I feel shows myself and my outfits in a certain light.

You as a photographer should “know your place” as you say. You are just taking the photos. I (figurative, I mean as in all models) am the main attraction. If you want to touch up and PS your work to make you look better, fine, go a head, that’s on you. And I (again, models in general) will decide on my end what photos suit me best and what I’ll add to my portfolio and display.

Shoot me, and you are shooting intellectual property. My rights do not end with the push of a button. I shoot with the knowledge that you the photographer will take the images and do what you will with them in reason (sell them, make money recoup for yout time and effort), and I will take my photos and do the same (not selling of course).

Having the ludicrous idea that because you took the photo you are the sole owner and copyright holder is beyond me. Let’s import a hypothetical; you later decide to use my photos in a manner that besmirches my image (i.e. nude, political, religious work). I complain, but you buck that you are the copyright holder and can do whatever you want. I (the model) do have a say, other wise Jessica Alba would have had no case with playboy. But I digress, that's not the point here 

This is where heads but, as artistic as you think you are, you are more the technician, and the model is the artist. And having worked in the gaming industry I know how tech and art butt heads all the time. Two different areas of the brain are at work. Of course you are going to see things differently.

You are right about one thing, models don’t pick finals for mags and the sort, you know why? It’s because they are paid for their time. That’s the deal, end of contract and story. But in the case of TFP (keeping on the topic mind you) if it’s TFP, then that IS the trade. If you don’t like that idea, the start paying your models so you can make the rules. Then you don’t have to worry about what you send or don’t send because you have already met your end of the bargain with payment. 

I hate to be spiteful, but I really hope everyone you have ever worked with see your quote of,
“nobody in the industry cares what models think... just freaking ‘MODEL’”
If that’s how you choose to treat who you work with then so be it, I’ll stay clear of you.

whew.... ok, im done

WOW, what a total idiot! You do NOT know anything about copyright law, go look it up. You are WRONG if you think you have ANY rights to the image not EXPRESSLY GIVEN to you. You are NOT intellectual property, you are barely intellectual at all. I was also quite surprised to see you were a male model, your Avi doesn't make that very clear

Ryoga Vee wrote:
Like I said, you lot of you sound like bullies. As long as you view models as nothing more than an object, then exspect nothing more than second class work. I truely pitty some of you. It actually hurts me to hear some of you talk like this. I know who I will and wont work with in the future. Archer, Im trying really hard not to snap and say something I might regreat but you are pushing me to that point.

No one is saying anything about having a say on what you do or don’t put in your portfolio, that’s your business, on the other end, what I choose to put in mine is my business. I’ve been doing fashion design for the past few years, and I have just as much a stake in what I feel shows myself and my outfits in a certain light.

You as a photographer should “know your place” as you say. You are just taking the photos. I (figurative, I mean as in all models) am the main attraction. If you want to touch up and PS your work to make you look better, fine, go a head, that’s on you. And I (again, models in general) will decide on my end what photos suit me best and what I’ll add to my portfolio and display.

Shoot me, and you are shooting intellectual property. My rights do not end with the push of a button. I shoot with the knowledge that you the photographer will take the images and do what you will with them in reason (sell them, make money recoup for yout time and effort), and I will take my photos and do the same (not selling of course).

Having the ludicrous idea that because you took the photo you are the sole owner and copyright holder is beyond me. Let’s import a hypothetical; you later decide to use my photos in a manner that besmirches my image (i.e. nude, political, religious work). I complain, but you buck that you are the copyright holder and can do whatever you want. I (the model) do have a say, other wise Jessica Alba would have had no case with playboy. But I digress, that's not the point here 

This is where heads but, as artistic as you think you are, you are more the technician, and the model is the artist. And having worked in the gaming industry I know how tech and art butt heads all the time. Two different areas of the brain are at work. Of course you are going to see things differently.

You are right about one thing, models don’t pick finals for mags and the sort, you know why? It’s because they are paid for their time. That’s the deal, end of contract and story. But in the case of TFP (keeping on the topic mind you) if it’s TFP, then that IS the trade. If you don’t like that idea, the start paying your models so you can make the rules. Then you don’t have to worry about what you send or don’t send because you have already met your end of the bargain with payment. 

I hate to be spiteful, but I really hope everyone you have ever worked with see your quote of,
“nobody in the industry cares what models think... just freaking ‘MODEL’”
If that’s how you choose to treat who you work with then so be it, I’ll stay clear of you.

whew.... ok, im done

I think you should educate yourself on the difference between copyright and right of privacy... If a photographer snaps a photo of you the photographer not you owns the copyright,the U.S. Copyright law already establishes that, unless a work for hire contract has been signed by the photographer. Now that does not mean he can use that image commercially without a release or use that image where it my degrade you,such as promoting aids awareness where people might get the impression that you might have the disease unless it was stated in the terms of the contract as to what the photos were going to be used for. As for TFP you do not have a right to all the images unless it states so in the contract, images are your payment for your modeling time. You get what the contract states, if you disagree with that then don't shoot with that photographer, period.

As for staying clear of certain photographers, I am sure you did a pretty good job of keeping alot of photographers away from you.

You know guys..The last time I saw such venom from a model was in one of the model escort forums from a sluggo posing as a model,or he has to have every image to feed his enormous ego....Hmmm..Something to think about.

David Holloway wrote:
I think you should educate yourself on the difference between copyright and right of privacy... If a photographer snaps a photo of you the photographer not you owns the copyright,the U.S. Copyright law already establishes that, unless a work for hire contract has been signed by the photographer. Now that does not mean he can use that image commercially without a release or use that image where it my degrade you,such as promoting aids awareness where people might get the impression that you might have the disease unless it was stated in the terms of the contract as to what the photos were going to be used for. As for TFP you do not have a right to all the images unless it states so in the contract, images are your payment for your modeling time. You get what the contract states, if you disagree with that then don't shoot with that photographer, period.

As for staying clear of certain photographers, I am sure you did a pretty good job of keeping alot of photographers away from you.

You know guys..The last time I saw such venom from a model was in one of the model escort forums from a sluggo posing as a model....Hmmm..Something to think about.

I never said "I" would own the rights to the photo. I'm well aware of copyright law. That’s NOT the argument I’m making. I’m fully aware that what the photographer shoots is his and his alone to use as he sees fit (again, within reason).
The only thing I’m discussing in the mentality of some of the peoples post as if they have the final decision of what the model will or won’t receive in a TFP scenario. And I've already stated how I feel.   

I’m just not fond of the attitude behind some of this, the ego that is
“I’m the photographer, you get what I tell you, you can have, if you don’t like it, shut up, you’re only a dumb model”

p.s. I am thinking about things within reason. If during a shoot some 2-400 photos are taken, of course I’m (and I assume most people) are not entirely adamant about having every single one. However, if you can fit a majority of the shots on a CD, then let the model have a CD.