luv2bfitt wrote:
I believe that some people of the christian faith need to remember that god has already forgiven them (and others) for their "sins"
   So personally, I think God's answer will be, "No Problem..."

adam garrett wrote:
that's pretty simplistic, and wrong, in my opinion (you're forgiven when you repent, not do nothing or ask for forgiveness without any plans on not doing the same action in the future)

I will be the first to admit that I am a simple man, and that many of life's complications are brought on by ourselves. In this example, I am making the assumption that because she was raised christian, she will ask for forgiveness when her times comes.

Ben Allen wrote:
That's pretty nieve

To this I say, while that may be your opinion, it is my opinion that god WANTS to forgive us, and will always seek opportunity to do so. For God is not against us because of our sin. He is with us, against and/or in spite of our sin. While I dislike quoting scripture because I find it a bit cliche, You don't have to take my word for it: Jesus said in John 6:37, "All whom My Father has given (entrusted) to Me, will come to Me and I will most certainly not cast out--I will never, no never reject one of them who comes to Me"
   When God forgives us, He no longer holds our sins against us. Therefore, no one has the right to hold others' sins against them--not if you belong to Jesus. If you belonged to the world, you could indulge in bitterness, but the blood-bought child of a merciful Lord (Hopefully, all of us) has no such right.......

Nate Boguszewski wrote:
If nudity didn't mean anything in this country then neither would Playboy and the aspirtations of so many models and likely more photographers would be non-existant.

Every time I read something like this I ponder how many people are in this game for the vice of it.

If money didn't mean anything in this country then would the Wall Street Journal exist?

If living into your old age didn't mean anything in this country then would Health or the journal of the AMA or Prevention exist?

If clean air and water didn't mean anything in this country then would the journals of the Sierra Club exist?

If exploration and travel didn't mean anything in this country then would National Geographic exist?

Methinks you're just a touch biased, my friend.

Krystin wrote:
This isn't something to debate. Everyone has a different opinion and everybody is entitled to it.

"Everyone is not entitled to their opinion. Everyone is entitled to an informed opinion."

-- Harlan Ellison

Radka Novakova wrote:
This is always problem.Somebody will take it somebody not.

  My father doesn't talk to me because of naked pictures more

  than 2 years.

God love the Christians (Cuz I just can't).  They all want grace, mercy and forgiveness, but none seem to be willing to stop being judgemental and dish it out.

I am boycotting Christians.  If heaven is going to be filled with them, it's going to suck for me, but I can no longer be a club member.  I was a Christian for a long time.  I raised my son in the church and sent him to other countries to spread the Gospel.  I've found that Christians are bad people.

While preparing for my son to go to Turkey on what would have been his second mission trip, a church member came to our house to speak with us.  She asked to see our son's room (she wanted to see if he really was a Christian).  Because of the rock 'n roll posters on the wall, he couldn't go spread the gospel.

I bought a new truck once.  After church, a Christian friend said, "I suppose you are going to show me you new red idol now."  He then got on my case for missing church the previous week.  Earlier this year, that same guy abandoned his pregnant wife and their son for a 50 year old woman with herpes.  Ugh.

I had a party for my wife.  A Christian friend slipped my wife and son GHB, a date rape drug.  My wife almost died.  The police did nothing.

So Radka, I'm sorry thaty your dad won't speak to you.  Things could have been worse.  When my son was turned down for the mission trip, he began to drink and do drugs.  He said that when the church turned its back on him, it was too much.  He later began using heroin.

The good news (no, not the gospel) is, my son is currently in a 12-step program and is clean and sober.  Thank goodness that none of his Christian friends tried to help.

I would be proud if I had a daughter that was pretty enough for Playboy.  It would be better to see her there, than deal with her being a junkie.

SmartAz Photography wrote:
I would be proud if I had a daughter that was pretty enough for Playboy.  It would be better to see her there, than deal with her being a junkie.

I couldn't have put it better.  There are a lot worse things that can happen to someone you love than seeing them naked in Playboy.

SmartAz Photography wrote:

God love the Christians (Cuz I just can't).  They all want grace, mercy and forgiveness, but none seem to be willing to stop being judgemental and dish it out.

I am boycotting Christians.  If heaven is going to be filled with them, it's going to suck for me, but I can no longer be a club member.  I was a Christian for a long time.  I raised my son in the church and sent him to other countries to spread the Gospel.  I've found that Christians are bad people.

While preparing for my son to go to Turkey on what would have been his second mission trip, a church member came to our house to speak with us.  She asked to see our son's room (she wanted to see if he really was a Christian).  Because of the rock 'n roll posters on the wall, he couldn't go spread the gospel.

I bought a new truck once.  After church, a Christian friend said, "I suppose you are going to show me you new red idol now."  He then got on my case for missing church the previous week.  Earlier this year, that same guy abandoned his pregnant wife and their son for a 50 year old woman with herpes.  Ugh.

I had a party for my wife.  A Christian friend slipped my wife and son GHB, a date rape drug.  My wife almost died.  The police did nothing.

So Radka, I'm sorry thaty your dad won't speak to you.  Things could have been worse.  When my son was turned down for the mission trip, he began to drink and do drugs.  He said that when the church turned its back on him, it was too much.  He later began using heroin.

The good news (no, not the gospel) is, my son is currently in a 12-step program and is clean and sober.  Thank goodness that none of his Christian friends tried to help.

I would be proud if I had a daughter that was pretty enough for Playboy.  It would be better to see her there, than deal with her being a junkie.

This is off topic a bit, but it applies somewhat and it helps to point out how "messed up" many fundamentalist Christians are about alot of things.  Today at work, we had a number of people get upset that the SUPPOSED number of the SUPPOSED beast (666) was on the paperwork as a lot number!!! I laughed.  Outloud.  But it quickly became apparent that they were all at least somewhat serious! Give me a f*cking break!!!  THAT is the Bible belt for ya!!

Alan

Jumpingman Photography wrote:
The hostility towards religion by some people on here is borderline psychotic.  The individual who started this post is ripping the people of this girl's community for their closed mindedness and being so judgemental, yet he is condemning with an almost identical hatred.  He cannot tolerate people who live life within the borders of a belief set.  According to him, people who do so must be "zealots", and "backward"...according to others they're just down right ignorant.  And we're not talking about anything radical here, like Islamic terrorists or the KKK, we're talking people who believe in God, and believe in moral decency and let that guide what they believe they should and should not do. 

Perhaps their code of morals is significantly more conservative than yours or mine, and perhaps they need to do a way better job of tolerating dissent, I won't argue with you there...but I think we'd all be better off if we weren't so quick to call people who believe in something "zealots" or "hypocrites"...if we weren't so quick to call people who believe in God total fools.  This is a belief shared by more than 90% of all people who have lived on this Earth, what they hell makes you so smart?  Believing in something counter culture or not believing in anything at all may be socially cool in that liberal, politically correct, there are no absolutes i'm so enlightend kind of way, but that certainly doesn't make it correct.

As a practicing Christian who grew up in a conservative town and household in the South, I can understand that community's shock.  As a more progressive thinker I can also understand that the church has much bigger problems, and should worry about what people should do (ie. help the poor, love others, etc) and not what people shouldn't do (ie. drink, be gay, etc).  I also know it's just as ignorant to say you are so much more intelligent or reasonable because you don't believe in something.  Christians need to do less finger pointing, I agree, but at least these people are basing their reaction on a system of morals.  The author of this post is doing just the same amount of finger pointing, only his doesn't seem to be based on anything but anger and ressentment.  You tell me which is more hypocritical...which is more "hate-filled".

I am sorry, but if Holly's mom got on a local photography/model forum talking about how wonderful it was for Holly to be in Playboy and "meet Hef", etc. for an audience of (mostly) glamour photographers and then turned around and blasted her daughter to the local papers, that is about as hypocritical as it gets! She played to each side--stressing the positive to a bunch of people who would likely approve of Holly's success--at least somewhat-- (the readers of the forum) and then stressing her disapproval to the other side (members of her church "family" and local community) by saying just the opposite to the local papers.  How is that NOT hypocritical?

Of course...it has occurred to me that the paper just might have taken her words out of context too, knowing that much of its readership would prefer that slant.  Just a thought--I am not accusing the media of anything unethical. But a bias might exist, just like it does pretty much everywhere.

KatieK wrote:
Okay, I just can't help it......here's my opinion.  I've been asked (in small town Kansas) if I'd ever pose for Playboy.  My answer:  "In a heartbeat!"  I've been a subscriber for years and truly enjoy every aspect of the magazine.  My parents support me in whatever I decide to do, so I'm one of the lucky ones.    I'm not willing to get into the whole "it is/isn't porn" issue, because everyone has their own view on that.  Holly's pictorial is fantastic.  She looks relaxed, happy and gorgeous.

Well, I guess you know where you're goin' when you die! 

When my daughter was in law school, one of the things she considered doing was "exotic dancing".  It pays very well and she was going to Tulane, an expensive school in New Orleans.  We talked about it on the phone, but I never even hinted about how I would feel about it.  Admittedly, it wouldn't have had a big impact on my feelings about her, but I wanted her to make the decision for herself based on pros and cons like any other decision.  She was an adult and she is not like me nor does she completely share my values.

In the end, she didn't do it because she thought it might impact her chances of going into politics if she ever decided to take that route. 

It's not just that I feel as an adult she has the right to make her own mistakes.  It's that she, as an adult, has the right to define what a mistake is.

ADG Photography wrote:
This is off topic a bit, but it applies somewhat and it helps to point out how "messed up" many fundamentalist Christians are about alot of things.  Today at work, we had a number of people get upset that the SUPPOSED number of the SUPPOSED beast (666) was on the paperwork as a lot number!!! I laughed.  Outloud.  But it quickly became apparent that they were all at least somewhat serious! Give me a f*cking break!!!  THAT is the Bible belt for ya!!

Alan

LOL!  I've had similar experiences.  One must be careful what one jokes about down here.  One could find one's self out of a job. 

FabioTovar wrote:
Not to be a buzzkill or anything but put yourself in the PARENTS shoes.
Forget "god" and religion.. all that aside....

If you had a daughter (don't know if you do)  would you be proud she was getting into the porn industry?

and please don't start with the playboy isnt porn crap. It is what it is. Just considered high profile porn.

If I had a daughter.... I think I would cry too.  I think MOST parents would want their children to aspire for something BETTER than posing nude....?????  But that's just me what the F do I know.

haha well playboy isnt porn, sorry to tell you.  there is no sex or penetration.  to all you bible thumpers - weren't adam and eve naked?  get over yourselves.

Incident Image wrote:
haha well playboy isnt porn, sorry to tell you.  there is no sex or penetration.  to all you bible thumpers - weren't adam and eve naked?  get over yourselves.

Just because you need something more extreme to wack off to, doesn't mean Playboy isn't porn.   If you need to be an adult to buy it, I have news for you; it's PORN.

Don't even try to equate Adam and Eve's nudity to pornography.

SmartAz Photography wrote:
After six or seven Bible Belts, I'm a real Bible Thumper.

Used to be you could give your kids a Bible Belt when they misbehaved in the grocery store.  Them were the days...

Stephen Dawson wrote:
Ghandi hit the nail on the head when he said, "I like your Christ, I don't like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."

Like the man said:  I have nothing against your God.  It's His fan club I can't stand.

Dave Krueger wrote:
It's their own self-righteous intolerant mob mentality bubbling to the surface.

Seems to be quite an epidemic       

I'm quite possibly about to get infected myself.


Beautiful girl,  Beautiful state.  Actually prety nice magazine too.


Tough part for everyone is finding out 
(as noted above in the   born with clothes on          commentary)   
that 'and they discovered that they were naked,  and they sewed fig leaves together and the covered themselves."



now just to clarify, so that I won't get the wrong issue,    that was April  right???

Jerry Bennett wrote:
The saddest thing is that this stuff even still needs to be debated at all. I'm 43 and I've watched as over the past 20yrs America has gotten, not just more conservative, but insane, conservative and self-righteous. Somebody above wrote that American Christians at least have a set of morale principles that they live by. If only that were true. Just listen to preachers like Pat Robertson call for the assassination of Hugo Chavez because he told U.S. corporations to f*** off, he's going to help the poor of his country. Or when they say AIDS is God punishing gays, with no mention of the innocent babies born with it. How is that Christian? So many of them are just hypocrites filled with hate and fear who want to control other peoples lives. And yes, the fact that these ignorant, backwards, hypocritical, vengeful, and narrow minded people do end up with some control over my life in a "free" country, makes me angry.

I wasn't going to comment on this post but I just have to add this.

I lived in the US for 17 years. I just recently moved to Israel (where I was born). Here, in the kiosks* on the street they have explicit porn dvds for sale out in the open in plain sight. I'm talking hardcore. They even sell used ones at flea markets. (There are also water bongs,etc. for sale too.) The first thing I could think of was "Wow, they'd NEVER allow this in the States. The moms of america would have a hernia."

*A kiosk is sorta like a mom 'n pop food mart/convenience store but with no doors, it's just open on the street next to stores,etc.

iceblueeyedgirl wrote:

Just because you need something more extreme to wack off to, doesn't mean Playboy isn't porn.   If you need to be an adult to buy it, I have news for you; it's PORN.

Don't even try to equate Adam and Eve's nudity to pornography.

So, nudity in classical religious art?

Jerry Bennett wrote:
The saddest thing is that this stuff even still needs to be debated at all. I'm 43 and I've watched as over the past 20yrs America has gotten, not just more conservative, but insane, conservative and self-righteous. Somebody above wrote that American Christians at least have a set of morale principles that they live by. If only that were true. Just listen to preachers like Pat Robertson call for the assassination of Hugo Chavez because he told U.S. corporations to f*** off, he's going to help the poor of his country. Or when they say AIDS is God punishing gays, with no mention of the innocent babies born with it. How is that Christian? So many of them are just hypocrites filled with hate and fear who want to control other peoples lives. And yes, the fact that these ignorant, backwards, hypocritical, vengeful, and narrow minded people do end up with some control over my life in a "free" country, makes me angry.

So true Jerry!

Here's the thing about self righteousness...I spent a good part of my life on a "spiritual quest." I was determined to find the truth about life. I grew up catholic and in the past years studied everything from Budhism to Mormanism, from Priests to Ripoches.  This is what I've found-they are all right...and they are all wrong. And most believe their way is the ONLY way. Which brings me to this...who in this world can be self-righteous in their stance on anything in the moral/religious realm when nobody really has ALL the answers. And therefore, how can any of us pass judgement on anyone else when this is true? Here's what I find as the underlying truth behind all religions and back to topic...love each other and love yourself. I'm guessing she didn't hurt anyone intentionally by posing nude. But we don't know that so who can say. Her parents may have unintentially been hurt, but that was by their choice. Nobody can make you feel any way unless you give them the power to do so.  Second, if we were to even consider if she violated "loving herself" in any way we could never make that judgement for someone else.   She and God are the only ones who know if she has emotionally or physically hurt herself by her actions. But then again...I could be wrong because NOBODY has ALL the answers...lol!

Stephen Dawson wrote:
Ghandi hit the nail on the head when he said, "I like your Christ, I don't like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."

So, insulting all Christians because you don't like a few... is that at all like assuming all Canadians are intolerant because you seem to be? Also, is it at all hypocrytical to demand tolerance of Homosexuality while being intolerant of people who are Christian just because you agree with one and not the other?

David Moyle wrote:

So, insulting all Christians because you don't like a few... is that at all like assuming all Canadians are intolerant because you seem to be? Also, is it at all hypocrytical to demand tolerance of Homosexuality while being intolerant of people who are Christian just because you agree with one and not the other?

Not to answer for SD, but when homosexuals start telling me that they are the "chosen" people and that I am going to burn in hell for eternity simply because I don't believe what they believe, I'll start disliking them too.

iceblueeyedgirl wrote:

Just because you need something more extreme to wack off to, doesn't mean Playboy isn't porn.   If you need to be an adult to buy it, I have news for you; it's PORN.

Don't even try to equate Adam and Eve's nudity to pornography.

This pisses me off. This is what gives the rest of us tolerant Christians a bad name.

Try looking at classic paintings dealing with religious subject matter. SOMEONE was probably yankin it to those too. That does not make nudity porn. Some people are turned on by smelly socks, does that mean we need to be 21 and older to buy socks now?

Dave Krueger wrote:

Not to answer for SD, but when homosexuals start telling me that they are the "chosen" people and that I am going to burn in hell for eternity simply because I don't believe what they believe, I'll start disliking them too.

It's just too bad you judge all Christians because of a relative few that happen to be more vocal than the less radical ones. Seems kind of like hating all Muslims for the same reason. Seems kind of hypocrytical to preach "don't generalize all people of a group" in one instance, but not in another.

Some of us think nudity is beautiful. Some of us don't tell others they will go to hell for posing nude.

But, hey, whatever it takes to rationalize your own intolerance.

David Moyle wrote:
Try looking at classic paintings dealing with religious subject matter. SOMEONE was probably yankin it to those too. That does not make nudity porn.

Hah!  The Catholic Church actually had clothing painted on the figures on the celing of the Sistine Chapel at one time.  For the good of their parishioners I think.  I think whoever did that came back recently as John Ashcroft. 

David Moyle wrote:
It's just too bad you judge all Christians because of a relative few that happen to be more vocal than the less radical ones.

Actually, I don't judge ALL Christians the same.  There's the ones I know and like and then there's the ones I know and don't like.  Then there's the ones I don't know.  Rather than go out and meet them all, I tend to lump them with the ones I don't like just to be on the safe side.

-Dave

iceblueeyedgirl wrote:

Just because you need something more extreme to wack off to, doesn't mean Playboy isn't porn.   If you need to be an adult to buy it, I have news for you; it's PORN.

Don't even try to equate Adam and Eve's nudity to pornography.

So the human body is something to be ashamed of, I guess... good luck in life.  and i guess an R rated movie with no nudity is also porn, since u need to be an adult to see it.  weak logic, weak reasoning.. next please.

FabioTovar wrote:
and please don't start with the playboy isnt porn crap. It is what it is. Just considered high profile porn.

So porn is anything topless or "WORSE"?

Sounds like something off the 700 club!

I direct and edit adult films. Nothing we produce is porn by my definition. So we'd need a football field to find common ground on that issue. America's really twisted public stand on Adult Entertainment never ceases to amaze me, being we're the largest per-capita consumers of Adult films worldwide. I get nose-thumbing critics all the time. I always ask two questions.
#1. Have you ever willingly viewed an Adult film?
#2. After having done so, have you ever willing viewed ANOTHER Adult film?

(now first, find me 10 people in the same state over 18 who could give you a no to both questions and pass a polygraph and I'll personally bake you a triple batch of those gooey vodka brownies)

If you answer both questions with a yes, than it is awfully hypocritical to denounce and chastise an industry you've covertly supported.