Photographer
ThefStopsHere
Posts: 2387
Olympia, Washington, US
Lapis wrote:
Only if they ask me really nicely and hand me a few benjamins.... ok... PLEEEEAAAAZE.... with sugar on top (and a few benjamins on the side..)
Photographer
American Glamour
Posts: 38813
Detroit, Michigan, US
DigitalCMH wrote:
Can you point out an actual law that says this? I do believe it is still 18 nationwide...at least it still is here in California. The age of consent varies all over the country. There is no national standard. In California, it is 18. In Hawaii and Pennsylvania, it was recently 13, they were the youngest. There are states with all kinds of variations in between. In some states, there is a lower age of consent for sex between minors. Some states have rules which prescribe an age gap. For example, a minor can legally have sexi with someone within three years of their age so a 17 year old might be able to have sex with a 20 year old, but if it was a 21 year old, it would be statutory rape.
The rules run all across the board.
However, don't mistake the age of consent for the age at which you can legally model in the nude. In a few states, the age is still 19 and 21. That is the reason why Playboy won't accept submissions shot in certain states for models under that age (although they can fly them to one of their studios as long as they are 18).
A couple of states specifically allowed a minor, 16 or over, to pose nude without a parent's consent. Florida was the most visible. They changed their law about 10 years ago when they noticed a lot of 16 year olds dancing nude in the bars. New York has it codified because of the fashion industry, but it principly deals with sexual nudity.
I am not here to argue for anything or make any point other than to say that there is no universal age of consent and that the rules vary all over the country.
Photographer
g2-new photographics
Posts: 2048
Boston, Massachusetts, US
Sixteen is simply too young for any of this. You're grownup for a long time but only young for a while so don't contribute to growing up too fast.
Photographer
Glamour Boulevard
Posts: 8628
Sacramento, California, US
Alan from Aavian Prod wrote:
A couple of states specifically allowed a minor, 16 or over, to pose nude without a parent's consent. Florida was the most visible. At one time not long ago Utah was one of those states, too.
Photographer
Lens N Light
Posts: 16341
Bradford, Vermont, US
Ed Remington wrote:
I realize that some men also think it's wrong, but I question whether it's because they're just scared of the legal issues, or if they're just Dads of teenage girls and are remembering what they were thinking of doing to the teenage girls of their generation. Teenage dughters are Gods punnishment for once having been a teenage boy!
This girl was 14 when the shot was taken. Sexy? You tell me; but this is as far as I go with a girl this young.
http://www.pbase.com/jlongo/image/53063847.jpg
Model
Jessica Loren
Posts: 516
Baltimore, Maryland, US
Lens N Light wrote:
Teenage dughters are Gods punnishment for once having been a teenage boy! So as not to confuse anyone, this is Peggy, Jess' Mom.
I totally love that! May I use it or did you borrow it too?
Jess will be 17 in a week and my husband is like a raving maniac. Granted, she's lovely and get's a lot of attention but now, (Lord help him) there's the "special" one, the one and only. Yes the BOYFRIEND!
I honestly think my husband is going to drive us all insane over this.
So, of course, being the devil's advocate as I so often am in this family, I have to constantly remind him of that story he told me and now regrets, of he and his girlfriend Dawn in her bathroom when he was 15.
That usually shuts him right up.
Often times, I only have to say her name!LOL
Photographer
Glamour Boulevard
Posts: 8628
Sacramento, California, US
Jessica L wrote:
So as not to confuse anyone, this is Peggy, Jess' Mom.
I totally love that! May I use it or did you borrow it too?
Jess will be 17 in a week and my husband is like a raving maniac. Granted, she's lovely and get's a lot of attention but now, (Lord help him) there's the "special" one, the one and only. Yes the BOYFRIEND!
I honestly think my husband is going to drive us all insane over this.
So, of course, being the devil's advocate as I so often am in this family, I have to constantly remind him of that story he told me and now regrets, of he and his girlfriend Dawn in her bathroom when he was 15.
That usually shuts him right up.
Often times, I only have to say her name!LOL Why do you think he is driving you insane? Cause he knows how guys that age can be ,lol. And hes got the daddys little girl thing.
Photographer
Lens N Light
Posts: 16341
Bradford, Vermont, US
Jessica L wrote:
I totally love that! May I use it or did you borrow it too? Stole it is probably a better word. It is a (near) quote from a Tom Clancy novel.
Model
Jessica Loren
Posts: 516
Baltimore, Maryland, US
Glamour Boulevard wrote:
Why do you think he is driving you insane? Cause he knows how guys that age can be ,lol. And hes got the daddys little girl thing. Well, it's definitely that but he worries about her future. He worries about everything and I'm starting to think he believes this is his JOB. Worrying I mean.
I feel for Jess but he (the boyfriend) really seems like a nice kid and loves her to death.
Besides, like I try to tell my husband, the more he puts up a fuss, the longer this will last.
Jess is a good girl and like I tell him, we've done pretty much all we can to raise her right so now, we have just have to hope some of it has gotten in and she makes the right choices.
I guess it's the best we can do.
Not to go off topic because I will say this, there is a lot that we do not approve of when it comes to shooting but we are realistic about her choice of vocation. What she has now is what I feel, age appropriate. There will be no thongs, no hand bras and no booty shots.
She's sexy enough without them.
Photographer
B R E E D L O V E
Posts: 8022
Forks, Washington, US
Lens N Light wrote:
Teenage dughters are Gods punnishment for once having been a teenage boy!
This girl was 14 when the shot was taken. Sexy? You tell me; but this is as far as I go with a girl this young.
http://www.pbase.com/jlongo/image/53063847.jpg Not sexy at all
Photographer
American Glamour
Posts: 38813
Detroit, Michigan, US
Terry Breedlove wrote:
Not sexy at all I agree totally. I don't see anything even remotely inapproprate in that photo.
Photographer
JM Dean
Posts: 8931
Cary, North Carolina, US
Jessica L wrote:
There will be no thongs, no hand bras and no booty shots. No Booty shots lol. Forgive me but whats a hand bra. Should i be shooting that 
Lets not mix up AOC with Age of Majority. As posted above AOC usually means sex between male and female and yes there is usually a 3 year max difference. Age of Majority covers everything else.
Photographer
500 Gigs of Desire
Posts: 3833
New York, New York, US
Pick up a Seventeen magazine to see how you should be shooting these girls.
Model
Fae D-Cay
Posts: 311
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
Sadly, this is the style that young girls are growing up with. It's all over the tv, radio, etc. I see girls my age and younger who might as well be walking in their undergarments. It's depressing and I've seen underage girls who post nude photos up on their myspace for "fun." There isn't much people can do about it. Teens rebel and even if the parents think their child is good, they can change clothing. My friend does it with gothic clothing and makeup everyday.
There's no real way around it and clothing stores are pushing it more and more... So, young people think it's okay... I just hope it goes away soon or at least doesn't get worse...
Photographer
Glamour Boulevard
Posts: 8628
Sacramento, California, US
Lens N Light wrote:
Teenage dughters are Gods punnishment for once having been a teenage boy!
This girl was 14 when the shot was taken. Sexy? You tell me; but this is as far as I go with a girl this young.
http://www.pbase.com/jlongo/image/53063847.jpg Not sexy at all but I have seen some parents get pissy over shots similar to that simply because the girls legs were open.And well, humans can only move so many ways, sometimes you just cant have your knees locked together.
Model
theda
Posts: 21719
New York, New York, US
io wrote:
EXACTLY!!! In Western society we have an unnaturally extended childhood, even when kids are past sexual maturity, and I find it rather odd. I looked the EXACT same at 16 as I do now, in EVERY way...and had a good grasp on my sexuality and sexiness, and to think, I wasn't even sexually abused!!! You CAN be "sexy" at 16, you're young, fertile, in most cases you're also sexually mature...there's nothing wrong with that PROVIDED you're not being exploited (happens to older girls too though!). Seeing a 16-year-old flirting it up for a shoot doesn't really alarm me....sorry. I shot some non-nude pinups w/my bf when I was 16 (we're still together and he dabbled in B/W photography), and I still look back on those fondly...I was happy, freshly in-love, and yes...sexy! Absolutely. Because of medical advancements and the lengthening of the life span, modernized cultures are extending childhood more and more. 16 years olds are physically mature and certainly sexually mature. It's only the changing of social mores than keeps them emotionally immature. As it becomes more common for kids to go straight from high school to college (and grad school), we're seeing more and more people who don't really reach any kind of social or emotional adulthood until their early to mid-20s. But, for some reason, 18 remains some sort of strange magic number.
Yes, Juliet was a fictional character who married at 13, but the ages were not terribly out of bounds for marriage for Elizabethan times. Olivia Hussy, the actress who played Juliet in the Zefferelli film was only 15 when she played the role, which included nudity and sex scenes. It was refreshing to see an actress under 30 in the role and she won several awards.
Photographer
Lens N Light
Posts: 16341
Bradford, Vermont, US
Alan from Aavian Prod wrote:
I agree totally. I don't see anything even remotely inapproprate in that photo. Hmm. I'm confused. Are you telling me that a photo has to be inappropriate to be sexy? I never saw anything inappropriate with Farah Faucett's red bathing suit poster -- arre you telling me that it wasn't sexy?
And It's really hard to keep your legs closed in a Lotus position.
Photographer
retphoto
Posts: 876
Sunbury, Pennsylvania, US
theda wrote:
io wrote:
Yes, Juliet was a fictional character who married at 13, but the ages were not terribly out of bounds for marriage for Elizabethan times. Olivia Hussy, the actress who played Juliet in the Zefferelli film was only 15 when she played the role, which included nudity and sex scenes. It was refreshing to see an actress under 30 in the role and she won several awards. I've been doing genealogy for awhile...and 100 years ago it wasn't UNCOMMON to find 14, 15 and 16 year olds getting marrried!!! and they stayed married til they died 60-70 or 80 year later!!!!
Model
Jessica Loren
Posts: 516
Baltimore, Maryland, US
100 years ago, what did the majority of women have to look forward to besides marriage and children? You were groomed to please your man and make babies, not cure diseases or design buildings or God forbid, be models. You were an old maid if you weren't married by 18.
I think over time, the opportunities for women have given them a lot more choices than marrying the first guy that came along, just because everyone else did and because it was expected.
The difference between then and now is more than 100 years, it's a million opportunities.
Most women didn't have a choice. Thank goodness, now they do.
Peggy
Wardrobe Stylist
Dave the design student
Posts: 45198
Detroit, Michigan, US
UdoR wrote:
Young fashionmodels are being chosen for their female attributes and usually have a height and body proportion that is the one of a slender, adult female.
To develop a model like that, it's a lot of time and money and often, when they use a model of "her age", she doesn't have that long of a time in the industry, as opposed a very young model, that they can make look much older... The typical age a modeling career begins at in the fashion publishing world is the 13-17 year old age range. Young women do not have adult hips, providing a straight line from the upper torso to the floor, providing a longer leaner look than the average adult woman possesses. Desired by runway designers everywhere.
Magazine advertising is the centerpiece of the fashion industry, aside from the runway circuit and private meetings. When ads range towards the 100,000 mark for full page display, the rates relate accordingly.
Models are art models developed as celebrity advertisers, the more campaigns booked the more desirable becuase of celebrity status, co-worker status in the gallery world and overall recognition.
Fashion is about presenting art as advertising and presenting role models for young women to aspire to an ultimate ideal.
As far as makeup, as an artist you need the best possible canvas available, young skin. No stress, plenty of sleep, no cigarette smoke, no sun or UV, no makeup products being used upon it...
Nearly any makeup artist or grown professional woman can tell you what putting makeup on and removing it can do to your skin in a brief period of time...
Photographer
BasementStudios
Posts: 801
Newton Falls, Ohio, US
DigitalCMH wrote:
Can you point out an actual law that says this? I do believe it is still 18 nationwide...at least it still is here in California.
Whether or not a DA will press charges for a 17y.o. with a 16 y.o. or a 19 with a 16 y.o. is a different story. But I promise you, with me at 34, if I nail a 16 y.o., the DA in most states would probably be all too happy to get me nailed. Age of consent is different in all states. Here in Ohio age of consent for sex is 16, that does not cover posing nude for photos.
Photographer
BasementStudios
Posts: 801
Newton Falls, Ohio, US
Ched wrote:
A table of worldwide ages of consent, including US states: http://www.avert.org/aofconsent.htm That is strictly age of consent for sex this does not cover age of consent for posing for nude photos. IMHO you should not be shooting anything even remotely sexy if she's under 18, just how I feel.
Photographer
Svend Portraits
Posts: 4156
Tulsa, Oklahoma, US
I just checked the link someone left to the various ages of consent from state to state and was shocked to find that in several states, the age of consent was 2-3 years younger for men than for women... 14/17 or something. WHAT!!!!???? You've got to be kidding me! I would have given my right arm to bang a 17 year old when I was 14! But seriously... another double standard, but one that follows the destructive lines of "it's okay for guys, but NOT for women!". Like a guy who screws a lot of women is a "playa" and therefore "cool", but a women would just be a slut or a whore. It's crap.
Photographer
BasementStudios
Posts: 801
Newton Falls, Ohio, US
Jessica L wrote:
Well, it's definitely that but he worries about her future. He worries about everything and I'm starting to think he believes this is his JOB. Worrying I mean.
I feel for Jess but he (the boyfriend) really seems like a nice kid and loves her to death.
Besides, like I try to tell my husband, the more he puts up a fuss, the longer this will last.
Jess is a good girl and like I tell him, we've done pretty much all we can to raise her right so now, we have just have to hope some of it has gotten in and she makes the right choices.
I guess it's the best we can do.
Not to go off topic because I will say this, there is a lot that we do not approve of when it comes to shooting but we are realistic about her choice of vocation. What she has now is what I feel, age appropriate. There will be no thongs, no hand bras and no booty shots.
She's sexy enough without them. Until you are a dad with a teenage daughter you will never understand what is going through his mind, his heart, his very soul. Since you are a mom, you will never understand it. It cannot be explained, I've tried, it just can't be. I have a teen daughter, it's heart wrenching to watch them grow. She's 15 now, just got her temps and is learning to drive. That's one more step away from me. Mom's llok at their daughters and see them maturing into women, getting ready for life, starting their own families. Dad's see the pigs slobbering and drooling over their little girls. I never knew what slime males were until my baby girl turned 13. Ugh....it's painful and yes it IS your husbands job to worry about her....you can call it chauvenistic if you please, but we are raised to be the strong, the protector and provider for our family, when we see our little girls growing up and not needing us as much as they once did, we see it as slipping away from us. It's very difficult and a lot to deal with. The mom's just think we're being silly, ridiculous, over protective, etc, etc, etc. Until you experience, you'll NEVER understand it.
Model
io
Posts: 2353
New York, New York, US
theda wrote:
Absolutely. Because of medical advancements and the lengthening of the life span, modernized cultures are extending childhood more and more. 16 years olds are physically mature and certainly sexually mature. It's only the changing of social mores than keeps them emotionally immature. As it becomes more common for kids to go straight from high school to college (and grad school), we're seeing more and more people who don't really reach any kind of social or emotional adulthood until their early to mid-20s. But, for some reason, 18 remains some sort of strange magic number.
Yes, Juliet was a fictional character who married at 13, but the ages were not terribly out of bounds for marriage for Elizabethan times. Olivia Hussy, the actress who played Juliet in the Zefferelli film was only 15 when she played the role, which included nudity and sex scenes. It was refreshing to see an actress under 30 in the role and she won several awards. It's interesting that you bring that up, because I recently wrote a term paper about how education has been the determining factor in why childhood has become so extended in Western culture (and in doing so changed laws, customs, mores...basically a ripple effect)....
Model
theda
Posts: 21719
New York, New York, US
io wrote:
It's interesting that you bring that up, because I recently wrote a term paper about how education has been the determining factor in why childhood has become so extended in Western culture (and in doing so changed laws, customs, mores...basically a ripple effect).... Since you agree with me, you are obviously brilliant. There are a lot of factors, but the extended length of formal education definitely plays a role.
Photographer
- null -
Posts: 4576
BasementStudios wrote:
Age of consent is different in all states. Here in Ohio age of consent for sex is 16, that does not cover posing nude for photos. I know. Isn't that weird?
If a 35 year old man has sex with a 16 year old girl in Ohio, that is totally fine.
But if he takes photos of her using a vibrator, he's going to jail....
... Someone isn't thinking ahead when they make these laws!
Model
io
Posts: 2353
New York, New York, US
Model
Susi
Posts: 3083
Atlanta, Georgia, US
Ok, My take on underage gals is both from in front of and behind the lense as I've been a phtographer and a model. However, I just have to say that there are plenty of models over 18 to shoot with. Personally, I've know photographers that were at group events and a model was outed as being under 18 and they deleted the images due to not the content but the venues open for the shoot with the requirement girls be over 18. However, alot of it was just not wanting to be open to liabilty in the future...they could have had parental realeases signed but why go there. I think younger girls should wait til 18 and then become the new models. I'm ready to welcome them and work with them:-)
Model
io
Posts: 2353
New York, New York, US
Model
io
Posts: 2353
New York, New York, US
theda wrote:
Since you agree with me, you are obviously brilliant. There are a lot of factors, but the extended length of formal education definitely plays a role. LOL, you know, I've been stalking your posts because we tend to know a lot of the same things and agree on much as well, and you feed my ego by-proxy (YES! I knew that TOO! Look at everyone take note of how smart and learned we are!"). You're my intellectual dream-woman...wait, no, scratch that, that sounds TOO "stalkerish."
On to serious stuff though, I should have said "one of the chief determining factors," as I totally acknowledge those other factors too (such as the transition from rural to city life, the emergence of youth culture, and so on), but it's definitely in the top 3! My research turned up some very interesting correlations.
Photographer
Glamour Boulevard
Posts: 8628
Sacramento, California, US
-sarcasm-
I had this weird feeling that there was going to be some weird weather event today. Turns out it was just io`s and Theda`s mind being on the same page. One Theda was enough. This is starting to scare me.
Photographer
Valkyrur
Posts: 1187
Nelsonville, New York, US
let me be serious here for a minute ... The brain of a man/woman is not mature in its formation until it reaches the mid 20s age ... Now .. why does nature place sex maturation way before the brain is sound? We need to go back 10000years to find the answer ... now back to my usual nonsense ....
Model
theda
Posts: 21719
New York, New York, US
Louis Braga wrote:
let me be serious here for a minute ...
The brain of a man/woman is not mature in its formation until it
reaches the mid 20s age ...
Now .. why does nature place sex maturation way before the
brain is sound? We need to go back 10000years to find the
answer ...
now back to my usual nonsense .... Because otherwise no one would be dumb enough to have children?
Model
theda
Posts: 21719
New York, New York, US
Glamour Boulevard wrote:
-sarcasm-
I had this weird feeling that there was going to be some weird weather event today. Turns out it was just io`s and Theda`s mind being on the same page. One Theda was enough. This is starting to scare me. I'm sure she's much nicer than I am.
Photographer
Valkyrur
Posts: 1187
Nelsonville, New York, US
theda wrote:
Because otherwise no one would be dumb enough to have children? that was a good try, mature baby ..
Photographer
Glamour Boulevard
Posts: 8628
Sacramento, California, US
theda wrote:
I'm sure she's much nicer than I am. You`re nice and you know it. Underneath that darlene voice impression(roseanne show) and those snippy comments you are very nice. You just try too hard to hide it
Model
io
Posts: 2353
New York, New York, US
theda wrote:
I'm sure she's much nicer than I am. Okay, I'll admit it...I'm kinda "nice..." Theda, are you Theda B on LJ?
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