Photographer
00siris
Posts: 19182
New York, New York, US
A. H A M I L T O N wrote:
It might have to do with the fact that most of your images are nude or implied, and honestly, I can't fault them for saying, "Hey, I like your work, but you don't get to see my unclothed crotch for free!"
Call me old fashioned, but your work is art. There is nothing portfolio building about it. No model on this site needs what you do for their portfolio, if they want it for some reason and want to get naked for you for free, great. If they don't, you should take your own advice and just move on.
Artists usually have to pay models to sit for them, don't kid yourself that it's some sort of insult for someone to want to work with you but require pay. As a photographer, I do the same thing about 10 times per day, on average. Not with models, but with clients in my market. It's a compliment.
Andy So let me get this straight .... you're saying that YOUR work is NOT art?
Photographer
Krunnch Photo
Posts: 23
San Jose, California, US
I'm tired of a lot of stuff, but messages from models is not one of them. Yet. I Just say "no thanks" if I don't want to do it.
On the other hand, if it's gone to the level of SPAM, yeah, I hear ya.
Model
Angel Tara
Posts: 2214
Charlotte, North Carolina, US
Monsante Bey wrote:
What's a starbucks? Oh, Lord, please say it aint so!
I'm sorry, I saw this and about fainted!
I didn't read the rest of the pages, although I will go back and do so, when I catch my breath...
espresso...caramelattes, machiatto, extra shot, whipped cream...oh Lord!
LMAO...
but yes, I used to live in Alaska and am that hooked. 
Model
Iona Lynn
Posts: 11176
Oakland, California, US
Brings home made cookies to go with the punch earler on in this thread.
Model
Angel Tara
Posts: 2214
Charlotte, North Carolina, US
I could only make myself read through page 7 and I have nothing useful to contribute to the original post. I will say thank you, however, because this thread is full of laughs. awww phooey....here's my opinion I would NEVER contact a photographer and give him my rates. The only time I have ever given a photographer my rates was 1. when he asked, or 2. when I told him I wasn't interested in tfp so he inquired about rates. I'm not on the internet to find photographers to pay me. If you want me for your portfolio, I am FLATTERED. If we can not trade, I give you my rates. Doesn't happen that often. But I am not everyone. Models do their business as they see fit. I choose to focus on working a high paying job every now and then, versus a low paying job all the time. But that's the choice I have made. I recently spoke with a photographer who talked about all the agency models who come to him for portfolio work, and who also pay him. He stated that they know nothing of OMP or MM. Let this be information to you photographer and models. Photographers, if you really have issues with shooting models ports for free, your best bet would be to contact your local agencies. Apparently those girls pay without any thought of tfp. This is not my experience, only what I have heard.
Photographer
00siris
Posts: 19182
New York, New York, US
Angel Tara wrote:
The only time I have ever given a photographer my rates was 1. when he asked, or 2. when I told him I wasn't interested in tfp so he inquired about rates.
I'm not on the internet to find photographers to pay me. If you want me for your portfolio, I am FLATTERED. If we can not trade, I give you my rates. Doesn't happen that often. Ahhhhhhhh! she get's it - Thank you Angel - Thank you thank you thank you.
That's all I'm saying
TFP the way it was meant to be.
Photographer
Monsante Bey
Posts: 2111
Columbus, Georgia, US
Angel Tara wrote:
Oh, Lord, please say it aint so!
I'm sorry, I saw this and about fainted!
I didn't read the rest of the pages, although I will go back and do so, when I catch my breath...
espresso...caramelattes, machiatto, extra shot, whipped cream...oh Lord!
LMAO...
but yes, I used to live in Alaska and am that hooked. I was joking because they're everywhere.
Model
Angel Tara
Posts: 2214
Charlotte, North Carolina, US
00siris wrote:
Ahhhhhhhh! she get's it - Thank you Angel - Thank you thank you thank you.
That's all I'm saying
TFP the way it was meant to be. Yes but remember Tony, that the internet isn't just for TFP. There are people trying to make a living here. It is not our reality, so it takes us by surprise, but it is the reality of others and we need to respect and understand that.
Photographer
00siris
Posts: 19182
New York, New York, US
Angel Tara wrote:
Yes but remember Tony, that the internet isn't just for TFP. There are people trying to make a living here. It is not our reality, so it takes us by surprise, but it is the reality of others and we need to respect and understand that. This is true - and I do indeed respect everyones right/desire/efforts to get paid (which is their ultimate goal in the first place - the question is more of who actually pays).
It's like you said, you told a photog that you weren't doing TFP and he inquired about your rates - APPLAUSE -
I just thought it was a bit odd that sometimes models "expect" to get the pix that they need for their portfolio AND get paid by the photographer who's giving them.
Model
Angel Tara
Posts: 2214
Charlotte, North Carolina, US
00siris wrote:
This is true - and I do indeed respect everyones right/desire/efforts to get paid (which is their ultimate goal in the first place - the question is more of who actually pays).
It's like you said, you told a photog that you weren't doing TFP and he inquired about your rates - APPLAUSE -
I just thought it was a bit odd that sometimes models "expect" to get the pix that they need for their portfolio AND get paid by the photographer who's giving them. Well to get pics and money for your ( a models) port, that is odd. And damn lucky, as a model, LOL.
Like I said, I don't contact photographers I admire and ask them to pay me.
Maybe models should understand that if you do indeed get money, you won't get pics unless it is in the form of a tear. (edit: or unless the photographer makes that choice)
Model
st0ya
Posts: 32
Los Angeles, California, US
Chuck Holliday wrote:
you know you cant tell these babes anything, they feel as if theyre gods gift and like photographers cant replace them with animals and wildlife  its not feeling as if i'm gods gift to anything (altho i am a godsgirl... bad joke... sry)
its that, frankly, my boobs are MY boobs.... and i get PAID to do godsgirls.. i got PAID to do razordolls... i get PAID to gogodance.... and i've even gotten PAID to take photos with my clothes on
i find it insulting that photographers with ABSOLUTELY no talent want to do tfp/cd nudes with me
sorry... but F that... like i'm going to pay for transportation to your house so you can fiddle around with lights and take some crappy topless photos of me with your 2.5 megapixel point and shoot
um... NO
whatever happened to taking photos for a REASON? tearsheets, magazines, flyers, artistic ideas??
the next dude that messages me with ''i've been taking photos at nightclubs for 4 months, and wanna shoot photos of you in the woods surrounded with barbed wire that has dead meat draped on it"... i'm going to tell him to shove his camera phone up his darned butt
Model
Praxis
Posts: 170
Raleigh, North Carolina, US
J.Stojadinovich wrote:
its not feeling as if i'm gods gift to anything (altho i am a godsgirl... bad joke... sry)
its that, frankly, my boobs are MY boobs.... and i get PAID to do godsgirls.. i got PAID to do razordolls... i get PAID to gogodance.... and i've even gotten PAID to take photos with my clothes on
i find it insulting that photographers with ABSOLUTELY no talent want to do tfp/cd nudes with me
sorry... but F that... like i'm going to pay for transportation to your house so you can fiddle around with lights and take some crappy topless photos of me with your 2.5 megapixel point and shoot
um... NO
whatever happened to taking photos for a REASON? tearsheets, magazines, flyers, artistic ideas??
the next dude that messages me with ''i've been taking photos at nightclubs for 4 months, and wanna shoot photos of you in the woods surrounded with barbed wire that has dead meat draped on it"... i'm going to tell him to shove his camera phone up his darned butt Hell, thats at least interesting compared to the overabundance of "up for a shoot? i'm wanting to do something with a Maxim type feel to it - you can trust me, i'm no gwc - i have the newest, fanciest equipment" that you get around this area
*gaaaaack*
Model
Praxis
Posts: 170
Raleigh, North Carolina, US
J.Stojadinovich wrote:
its not feeling as if i'm gods gift to anything (altho i am a godsgirl... bad joke... sry)
its that, frankly, my boobs are MY boobs.... and i get PAID to do godsgirls.. i got PAID to do razordolls... i get PAID to gogodance.... and i've even gotten PAID to take photos with my clothes on
i find it insulting that photographers with ABSOLUTELY no talent want to do tfp/cd nudes with me
sorry... but F that... like i'm going to pay for transportation to your house so you can fiddle around with lights and take some crappy topless photos of me with your 2.5 megapixel point and shoot
um... NO
whatever happened to taking photos for a REASON? tearsheets, magazines, flyers, artistic ideas??
the next dude that messages me with ''i've been taking photos at nightclubs for 4 months, and wanna shoot photos of you in the woods surrounded with barbed wire that has dead meat draped on it"... i'm going to tell him to shove his camera phone up his darned butt Hell, thats at least interesting compared to the overabundance of "up for a shoot? i'm wanting to do something with a Maxim type feel to it - you can trust me, i'm no gwc - i have the newest, fanciest equipment" that you get around this area
*gaaaaack*
Model
Praxis
Posts: 170
Raleigh, North Carolina, US
J.Stojadinovich wrote:
its not feeling as if i'm gods gift to anything (altho i am a godsgirl... bad joke... sry)
its that, frankly, my boobs are MY boobs.... and i get PAID to do godsgirls.. i got PAID to do razordolls... i get PAID to gogodance.... and i've even gotten PAID to take photos with my clothes on
i find it insulting that photographers with ABSOLUTELY no talent want to do tfp/cd nudes with me
sorry... but F that... like i'm going to pay for transportation to your house so you can fiddle around with lights and take some crappy topless photos of me with your 2.5 megapixel point and shoot
um... NO
whatever happened to taking photos for a REASON? tearsheets, magazines, flyers, artistic ideas??
the next dude that messages me with ''i've been taking photos at nightclubs for 4 months, and wanna shoot photos of you in the woods surrounded with barbed wire that has dead meat draped on it"... i'm going to tell him to shove his camera phone up his darned butt You'd probably be the one to wind up with the more interesting image if you did shove someones camera phone up their arse...
Whether or not that inference is an unequivocally truth is not i'm prepared to commit to however ;p
Photographer
Louis Pereyra
Posts: 97
Scranton, Pennsylvania, US
My oh my.....the arrogance of some photographers on here is pathetic!! Just because they attend a half dozen workshops they think they can preach. Most should be happy that someone would even consider shooting with them. But like with everything else i guess...there will always be a few bad apples.... ;O)
Photographer
00siris
Posts: 19182
New York, New York, US
Photographer
A. H A M I L T O N
Posts: 325
Coventry, England, United Kingdom
00siris wrote:
So let me get this straight .... you're saying that YOUR work is NOT art? Yes, that's what I'm saying. While that's not to say there isn't a creative or artistic side to what I do, it's primary purpose is what my client requests (since I'm a test photographer, that's the agency most of the time), not art for the sake of art.
There's a creative aspect to taking a picture of a desk for the office depot catalog too, but that doesn't make it art.
Andy
Photographer
00siris
Posts: 19182
New York, New York, US
A. H A M I L T O N wrote:
Yes, that's what I'm saying. While that's not to say there isn't a creative or artistic side to what I do, it's primary purpose is what my client requests (since I'm a test photographer, that's the agency most of the time), not art for the sake of art.
There's a creative aspect to taking a picture of a desk for the office depot catalog too, but that doesn't make it art.
Andy ART ( P ) Pronunciation Key (ärt)n.
1 - Human effort to imitate, supplement, alter, or counteract the work of nature.
2 - High quality of conception or execution, as found in works of beauty; aesthetic value.
3 - (a) Skill that is attained by study, practice, or observation: the art of the baker; the blacksmith's art. (b) Skill arising from the exercise of intuitive faculties: âSelf-criticism is an art not many are qualified to practiceâ? (Joyce Carol Oates).
I guess we differ in opinions and/or information
Photographer
Ivan123
Posts: 1037
Arlington, Virginia, US
Aside from Audrey, of course, is this thread any new record? I don't really think so but haven't really kept track. It might not be the longest but it has got longer faster than any other thread in my experience. I wonder how and why some threads just take on a life of their own. For all anyone knows or cares, the OP has long since moved or died or been abducted by aliens. Interesting. There is a PhD dissertation in there somewhere.
Photographer
00siris
Posts: 19182
New York, New York, US
Ivan123 wrote:
Aside from Audrey, of course, is this thread any new record? I don't really think so but haven't really kept track. It might not be the longest but it has got longer faster than any other thread in my experience. I wonder how and why some threads just take on a life of their own. For all anyone knows or cares, the OP has long since moved or died or been abducted by aliens. Interesting. There is a PhD dissertation in there somewhere. ROTFLMAO -
You know I've often wondered about this same thing myself
Photographer
00siris
Posts: 19182
New York, New York, US
Ivan123 wrote:
Aside from Audrey, of course, is this thread any new record? I don't really think so but haven't really kept track. It might not be the longest but it has got longer faster than any other thread in my experience. I wonder how and why some threads just take on a life of their own. For all anyone knows or cares, the OP has long since moved or died or been abducted by aliens. Interesting. There is a PhD dissertation in there somewhere. ROTFLMAO -
You know I've often wondered about this same thing myself
Model
DawnElizabeth
Posts: 3907
Madison, Mississippi, US
Oops. I read it wrong. I thought there was free stuff here.
*blush*
>>scuffles out
Photographer
f6point3foto
Posts: 16
Corpus Christi, Texas, US
Angel Tara wrote:
I'm not on the internet to find photographers to pay me. If you want me for your portfolio, I am FLATTERED. If we can not trade, I give you my rates. Doesn't happen that often.
Photographer
f6point3foto
Posts: 16
Corpus Christi, Texas, US
Whooops! Forgot to add a comment to the quote of Angel Tara above.
Angel, will you marry me? (slaps forehead) Sorry, too late. My wife wouldn't be too happy about that.
I've read many (not all, Jesus Christos) of the posts on this thread, and have to say that, while a few models I've queried for a TFP shoot have replied by asking if it was a paid shoot, I've just chalked that up to their possibly short attention spans.
My biggest gripe is how so many models will say that she's open to TFP and then will completely ignore an email. How many of you photographers have had that happen? OK, OK, put your hands down.
Why sign up to a site like this and read all of your emails, but not even take a moment to respond - even in the negative?
Yes, it's probably a thread that's been covered before, but jeez, somebody had to change the subject a little bit.
Pete
Model
Diane ly
Posts: 1068
Manhattan, Illinois, US
No FREE PICTURES?!?!?! THEN WHY THE HELL AM I ON HERE! Oh yeah to talk to you lovely folks on the forums....man this site is addicting! 
Photographer
Worlds Of Water
Posts: 37732
Rancho Cucamonga, California, US
Louis Pereyra wrote:
My oh my.....the arrogance of some photographers on here is pathetic!! Just because they attend a half dozen workshops they think they can preach. Most should be happy that someone would even consider shooting with them. But like with everything else i guess...there will always be a few bad apples.... ;O) My oh my... the arrogance of some models in here is pathetic! Just because mommy and daddy send them through 'John Robert Powers' and some dime store agent farmed them out on a local Walmart lollipop job, they think they can get in here and preach. Most should be happy that someone would even consider shooting with them. But like with everything else I guess... there will always be a few bad apples...
Photographer
ClickArt
Posts: 30
Maumelle, Arkansas, US
"This is true - and I do indeed respect everyones right/desire/efforts to get paid (which is their ultimate goal in the first place - the question is more of who actually pays).
It's like you said, you told a photog that you weren't doing TFP and he inquired about your rates - APPLAUSE -
I just thought it was a bit odd that sometimes models "expect" to get the pix that they need for their portfolio AND get paid by the photographer who's giving them." Yes, I agree but I think it's more than "odd". It's down right brazen. I mean let's get real. If your doing TFP then yes by all means expect a copy of the photos. If your getting paid for the shoot then you should not "expect" to get any of the shots. You are being paid to model not to recieve pictures! Now if you want a copy of the pictures then (the model) can check with the photographer and get HIS rates and pay for the prints/CD whatever. I mean it's only fair isn't it? If the tog is paying the model for her work... then shouldn't the model pay the tog for his work?? Granted if a model was paid for work then I can see giving them 1 or 2 just to be nice but to expect all of them or even 1 or 2 is wrong.
Photographer
Newzpix
Posts: 662
Manassas, Georgia, US
Prior to internet modeling sites and computers in the home, the line was clear with models and shooters. If the photographer NEEDED a model for a client's job, the model was paid by the client. If the photographer wanted to shoot for his book or to test some thing, he usually knew a few models who would pose for prints --- cause they knew the shoot might lead to a photo for their book as well.
Now every pretty girl thinks she's a model and wants to charge for her time. Or, she wants to live out her fantasy and see's easy money.
Every guy with a camera thinks he's Helmut Newton and wants to be paid, or worse, wants the girls to pose naked to get his mental-self off. Then there are the gwc who have the money to pay the wanna-be models to play out his fantasy.
The entire model/photographer relationship has been hurt by the internet, cheap digital cameras and computers. The pride in work ethic has taken a back seat to cheap thrills and money.
On the otherhand, the internet allows self-expression and encourages people to be more creative -- and no doubt the modeling industry and photo world have become more enriched because of this.
We all should be more honorable in our deailngs with each other. Models should work with shooters they trust. Shooters should be upfront about their needs versus desires.
We all should have the space to work on personal projects without fear of going broke -- models have ideas for photos and need a shooter --- shooters have ideas and need a model.
As good ole' Rodney spewed, can't we all just get along.
Model
Duchess of Mars
Posts: 64
Beverly Hills, California, US
StaciF wrote:
And I am tired of photographers contacting me saying you need better picture in your portfolio- Here are my fees-
It is a two way street people- So quit complaining and start shooting- and you can't fault a model or a photographer for marketing themselves. If you think their is value pay it- If you don't move on- It isn't rocket science Amen.
Model
Amber Dawn - Indiana
Posts: 6255
Salem, Indiana, US
There ARE photographers who do pay models. I get asked to be paid by photographers but I like their work so much I rather do TFCD ... unless it's nude work then I expect to be paid. If a photographer contacts ME for my rates or wants to work with me but their work isint that good then I'll give them my rates. But I wouldnt contact a photographer saying I like your work he's my rates.
Model
StacyJack
Posts: 2297
New Orleans, Louisiana, US
Newzpix wrote:
Snip...
As good ole' Rodney spewed, can't we all just get along. Yes we can, just not with each other.
Photographer
Christopher Hartman
Posts: 54196
Buena Park, California, US
People are still talking about this? Hey Stacy, I still love you 
Model
StacyJack
Posts: 2297
New Orleans, Louisiana, US
DigitalCMH wrote:
People are still talking about this?
Hey Stacy, I still love you well I should hope so! Nice to know some people have constancy...Eric!
Model
Amber Dawn - Indiana
Posts: 6255
Salem, Indiana, US
00siris wrote:
Attention models:::::
Let me start by saying this: If you don't like a photographers work, then just move on.
There's a model who left me the following quote:
"I love your work - contact me for my rates" - WHAT !?!
Charging a photog is an insult unless he/she has a project or is trying to better himself/herself at a particular set. If you want to get paid, by all means do so. But, you have to go on castings or get an agent - it's as simple as that. You have to be willing to go out there and do a little work.
Read about or ask any successful model and find out that being pretty is just a small piece to the modeling puzzle.
Please try and find out what TFP/CD REALLY means - please - Enough is enough already. Can I ask why you have "contact me for rates" on your port? That is a insult to models. Seems it's not okay for models to contact you with their rates but you put that on your port! why exactly? You should just be doing TFCD or ONLY getting paid by clients NOT models!
AHAHAHAAHAHA! sorry I had to say it.
Photographer
Sienna Hambleton
Posts: 10352
Toledo, Ohio, US
Ya' know, I'm a starving artist because I'd rather not mix my love of photography and beauty with commerce, but so be it. A model contacts me with her rates, whether or not her portfolio is junk, so be it. It's nothing personal when I always say 'no,' and it's not because I think she doesn't deserve compensation for her time. I simply can't afford it.
I have gratitude for the models who work with me simply because they think I can enhance their book. I have gratitude for the models who work with me because they like the concept I'm working on. I don't pay models and yet I think I've worked with some pretty awesome ones. It is what it is. Then there are plenty of models here who won't be working with me, because they have different motivation and want to be paid . . . always.
Too many photographers here need to check their egos when considering it an affront that a model would ask them for pay. Truthfully, most who feel so insulted are just writing checks with their mouths that their abilities and resumes can't cash. People here have different motivations for being in this industry. Mine is love of beauty not money.
Photographer
00siris
Posts: 19182
New York, New York, US
Newzpix wrote:
Every guy with a camera thinks he's Helmut Newton and wants to be paid, or worse, wants the girls to pose naked to get his mental-self off. Then there are the gwc who have the money to pay the wanna-be models to play out his fantasy.
The entire model/photographer relationship has been hurt by the internet, cheap digital cameras and computers. The pride in work ethic has taken a back seat to cheap thrills and money.
We all should be more honorable in our deailngs with each other. Models should work with shooters they trust. Shooters should be upfront about their needs versus desires.
We all should have the space to work on personal projects without fear of going broke -- models have ideas for photos and need a shooter --- shooters have ideas and need a model.
As good ole' Rodney spewed, can't we all just get along. Well said
Photographer
00siris
Posts: 19182
New York, New York, US
CO Model Amber wrote:
Can I ask why you have "contact me for rates" on your port? That is a insult to models. Seems it's not okay for models to contact you with their rates but you put that on your port! why exactly? You should just be doing TFCD or ONLY getting paid by clients NOT models!
AHAHAHAAHAHA! sorry I had to say it. Can I ask you how long have you been modeling and for whom? Do you think that the photographers that picture Heidi Klum, Tyra Banks and the like are paying them? I hope not. The same people that are paying them are also paying the photographers as well for their work.
You're missing the point altogether. If you need something for your portfolio and a .... well, no need to really continue. It's obvious that you haven't read my post or just don't understand.
sorry I had to say it.
Photographer
Farenell Photography
Posts: 18832
Albany, New York, US
Jeff Fiore wrote:
Since to some it is Rocket Science:
M model
P photographer
D desire to work with
$ pay
> Greater than
< Less than
T TFP/CD
C client
MD < PD = M$
MD > PD = P$
MD = PD = T
CD = M$ P$ Now I'm remembering why I flunked Calculus in high school. :-)
Model
Diane ly
Posts: 1068
Manhattan, Illinois, US
CO Model Amber wrote:
Can I ask why you have "contact me for rates" on your port? That is a insult to models. Seems it's not okay for models to contact you with their rates but you put that on your port! why exactly? You should just be doing TFCD or ONLY getting paid by clients NOT models!
AHAHAHAAHAHA! sorry I had to say it. Thank you! LOL
Photographer
00siris
Posts: 19182
New York, New York, US
Diana Moffitt wrote:
Thank you! LOL models are clients -
and you're taking this way too personally
|
