Model
UnavailableNonExistant
Posts: 294
Columbus, Ohio, US
Mac Swift wrote:
If she doesn't want to pose nude then she doesn't want to pose nude. End of story. Isn't that kinda common sense? Oh, ya...common sense is a rare commodity these days. It's an internet thing.
Guy goes to local camera store, buys a high end digital camera which can compensate somewhat for lack of lighting equipment (amazuing what shooting on program can do), posts an add on craigslist, pays a few models to come shoot nudes with him, then he discovers places like this and makes a profile and continues the cycle with the mindset that she'll get nude for pay even if her profile says she won't.
Then you have those who feel that their work is so awesome that girls will drop their clothes for them just because. I believe we call that "misguided ego."
Photographer
photographybyfrank
Posts: 455
Clearwater, Florida, US
Brett Nicholls wrote:
I'm not one typical to put out my two cents unless I'm asked for it, but what's the deal with all the photographers out there complaining about female models who won't shoot nudes? Is there some unwritten law that I've missed that says a woman must do nudes or imply, sheer, etc. to be considered a good model, sexy, desirable, artistic, etc?
Maybe it's just me, but it seems like there are an awful lot of photographers out there putting down models who won't do nudes, and pressuring models with false hopes of "playboy" submissions and the like. If a woman doesn't want to take her clothes off for you, let her alone. But, to put that model down or to call her "less of a model" or play the "everyone who is anyone is doing it" routine, really has to stop. Sometimes I wonder how much of it is really about the "art" to begin with or more just some sexually frustrated pervs with lenses trying to get their peeps. Just my two cents. Thanks. I agree 100%
Photographer
photographybyfrank
Posts: 455
Clearwater, Florida, US
Doug Swinskey wrote:
ok..so how are you supposed to shoot them nude, when they dont want to..if you don't apply some sort of "pressure"..??? If you need to apply pressure, maybe its you that has a problem not the model.
NO means NO
Photographer
SKPhoto
Posts: 25784
Newark, California, US
photographybyfrank wrote:
If you need to apply pressure, maybe its you that has a problem not the model.
NO means NO Except of course when it means -
-yes
-ask me again because I don't think you're serious
-ask me again, I'm shy
-tell me what's in it for me first
-tell me it will be fun and I'll do it
-and many others.
And before anyone decides to call me a pig I have all these answers numerous times over from the ladies themselves on the occasions where we've talked about such things in a non-photographic setting.
And as I've said elsewhere - it's not a crime to ask so get over yourselves.
Photographer
Class Act Photography
Posts: 6376
STUDIO CITY, California, US
Brett Nicholls wrote:
I'm not one typical to put out my two cents unless I'm asked for it, but what's the deal with all the photographers out there complaining about female models who won't shoot nudes? The "deal" is all these photographers out there complaining and putting down models
who won't do nudes, is mostly an invention in your mind. It's not happening on MM
or in the high degree you think it's happening in the real world. You are speaking of a minority of bad apples that don't represent the majority of photographers. For reasons of your own, you're trying to paint photographers in a bad light to make yourself look noble.
Photographer
Boho Foto
Posts: 227
Atchison, Kansas, US
SKPhoto wrote:
Except of course when it means -
-yes
-ask me again because I don't think you're serious
-ask me again, I'm shy
-tell me what's in it for me first
-tell me it will be fun and I'll do it
-and many others.
And before anyone decides to call me a pig I have all these answers numerous times over from the ladies themselves on the occasions where we've talked about such things in a non-photographic setting.
And as I've said elsewhere - it's not a crime to ask so get over yourselves. It's maybe not a crime to ask once, depending on context, but the problem being addressed here is photographers pressuring models. Continuing to ask once the model has said no.
Quite frankly the whole "sometimes no means yes" is a common excuse for men trying to push women into doing a variety if things they don't want to do. It's also a very common defense for men to cite when they are charged with rape.
Maybe sometimes "no" really means..."no." Even if you suspect someone is being coy, once they say no, that should be the end of the discussion. Trying to rationalize that "no means yes" just causes a lot of trouble.
Photographer
Jeremy I
Posts: 2201
Charlotte, North Carolina, US
I rarely shoot nudes. But if I think a girl or guy would be an interesting study I will ask. If I get a no, I simply say if you change your mind, let me know. Alot of times its a trust issue. I always let them know that after the shoot we can look through the images and any that seem distasteful to him/her get deleted off the camera.
Photographer
TeeGeeStudios
Posts: 102
Omaha, Nebraska, US
I shoot both nude and very, very clothed.
However, both myself and the model know beforehand which we are going to shoot.
My wife (who often assists me) and I often joke about whether the shoot is going to be nude or "prude"....lol. The point is, I can give her an answer, becasue it has always been discussed prior to the shoot.
My two cents.
Model
UnavailableNonExistant
Posts: 294
Columbus, Ohio, US
Glen Pendleton wrote:
I shoot both nude and very, very clothed.
However, both myself and the model know beforehand which we are going to shoot.
My wife (who often assists me) and I often joke about whether the shoot is going to be nude or "prude"....lol. The point is, I can give her an answer, becasue it has always been discussed prior to the shoot.
My two cents. lol, ever shot a prudish nude?
Photographer
Jeff Fiore
Posts: 9225
Brooklyn, New York, US
Stacy Leigh wrote:
How about photographers who pressure Female photographers to pose nude?!?
It almost happened to me, https://modelmayhem.com/member.php?id=2390
Oh wait...except that I happily stripped down!! And it was liberating!!! Nudity is fine for some- but anybody who can be pressured into getting naked is in danger of FAR more then just pervy photogs.... LOL! That happened to me with a model. She wanted to see what it was like behind the camera and I wanted to see what it was like in front of the camera - so we switched. She wanted to shoot nudes of me. Yes it was VERY liberating and I was surprised how comfortable I was in a few mniutes.
Since I'm not "model material" the images were less than spectacular but the experience was worth it and it gave me a heightened respect for models - especially nude models.
Photographer
S W I N S K E Y
Posts: 24376
Saint Petersburg, Florida, US
Doug Swinskey wrote:
ok..so how are you supposed to shoot them nude, when they dont want to..if you don't apply some sort of "pressure"..??? Retro Photo wrote:
Please tell me you're trying to make a joke.
Please?!? cool retro gets it....
Photographer
S W I N S K E Y
Posts: 24376
Saint Petersburg, Florida, US
Doug Swinskey wrote:
ok..so how are you supposed to shoot them nude, when they dont want to..if you don't apply some sort of "pressure"..??? photographybyfrank wrote:
If you need to apply pressure, maybe its you that has a problem not the model.
NO means NO frank doesnt get it...
Photographer
S W I N S K E Y
Posts: 24376
Saint Petersburg, Florida, US
Doug Swinskey wrote:
ok..so how are you supposed to shoot them nude, when they dont want to..if you don't apply some sort of "pressure"..??? Project Photography wrote:
I never pressure anyone to shoot nude... almost 99% of the time I let them bring it up. In fact my last shoot I sent the model an email saying 'I hope you didn't feel like you had to do nudes' she replied and said that she wanted to and that she has never been more comfortable doing them.
I love the female body don't get me wrong! but I would also and have shot male nudes too. For me there is no difference when I am working.
So to all the models that have felt pressures by photogs. to shoot nude.. please don't think we are all like that. project doesnt get it..
Photographer
S W I N S K E Y
Posts: 24376
Saint Petersburg, Florida, US
Doug Swinskey wrote:
ok..so how are you supposed to shoot them nude, when they dont want to..if you don't apply some sort of "pressure"..??? Nick7286 wrote:
I haven't been pressured yet to do so.  lol nick kinda gets it..
Photographer
Rp-photo
Posts: 42711
Houston, Texas, US
Brett Nicholls wrote:
I'm not one typical to put out my two cents unless I'm asked for it, but what's the deal with all the photographers out there complaining about female models who won't shoot nudes? Most models don't have more than casual P&S photography experience, and taking nude images is something that should be done only after considerable experience with clothed subjects.
Photographer
S W I N S K E Y
Posts: 24376
Saint Petersburg, Florida, US
and FYI..every model shoots nudes..they just dont show them...
Photographer
Jason McKendricks
Posts: 6025
Chico, California, US
Some people don't appreciate dry humor, eh Doug?
You have a point. I've seen surveys that say that the vast majority of women have posed nude at some point, even if only for their boyfriends/spouses/lovers.
Photographer
S W I N S K E Y
Posts: 24376
Saint Petersburg, Florida, US
Jason McKendricks wrote:
Some people don't appreciate dry humor, eh Doug?
You have a point. I've seen surveys that say that the vast majority of women have posed nude at some point, even if only for their boyfriends/spouses/lovers. well i though it was funny.....
and the majority of models i have photographed, have posed nude for me..
not becuase i pressure them, but because of my manner...
and my images arent to bad...
most of those models, dont ever post the images or advert they do nudes..
they did it for themselves..and thats very cool...
Photographer
Meech Creative LLC
Posts: 97
Frederick, Maryland, US
My GOD @ the slaughtering of the English language in here. It's YOU'RE when referring to someone, it's YOUR when referring to something belonging to someone. FFS.
Photographer
SKPhoto
Posts: 25784
Newark, California, US
Retro Photo wrote:
It's maybe not a crime to ask once, depending on context, but the problem being addressed here is photographers pressuring models. Continuing to ask once the model has said no.
Quite frankly the whole "sometimes no means yes" is a common excuse for men trying to push women into doing a variety if things they don't want to do. It's also a very common defense for men to cite when they are charged with rape.
Maybe sometimes "no" really means..."no." Even if you suspect someone is being coy, once they say no, that should be the end of the discussion. Trying to rationalize that "no means yes" just causes a lot of trouble. Quite frankly the whole "sometimes no means yes" is a common "game" women play. There fixed that for ya.
And no it's not women only, my dad was very big on saying no to anything asked him the first time. Why? So he could agree later and you would be indebted to him.
And I quite agree, once no is said that is the end of the discussion. I personally have been slapped in anger by someone who wanted to play the game of no means yes and got quite agitated when I shut down the whole thing.
"Pressuring", my point is that for most of the complaints I've seen on here do not amount to -pressuring- , they amount to asking, and asking is not pressuring. Asking a second time does not amount to pressuring. And frankly as long as it is not asked to the point of harrassment or involves attempted coercion, asking multiple times is not pressuring.
Hey, you don't want to do something, say no. But don't tell people they have committed some great moral wrong or a crime by asking a question. They haven't.
Tip of the day for insecure people - never go to fast food resturants, they pressure you to increase the size of your meal. Wouldn't want a model pulling a gun and blowing someone away just because the model was being pressured to get a super-size fries.
Hair Stylist
HairOtika
Posts: 78
Los Angeles, California, US
I'm a hairstylist by trade and photographer by interest...so that I can shoot the looks that I want when I want them...I am interested in headshots to represent my work.
My experience is that my models are ready to disrobe at any given opportunity and do so without asking...perhaps it's just my charming way with women? I think not, I'm a fifty two year old dad/husband.
Photographer
Meech Creative LLC
Posts: 97
Frederick, Maryland, US
And as to the topic it should ALWAYS be up to the model.
/thread
Photographer
Perfect Pixels
Posts: 106
Richfield, Minnesota, US
Class Act Photography wrote:
What the hell are you talking about?
Where are "ALL these photographers out there complaining"???
Where do you see an "awful lot of photographers out there putting down
models who won't do nudes"???
Since there are sooooo many "frustrated perv" photographers like you say, it should be easy for you to point to some threads so we can see what you're talking about.
It should be easy for you to show us a few examples.
Where are they???
This is a bogus thread and I doubt whether you're going to supply examples to
back up what you're saying. You've made less than 40 posts so I doubt strongly
you're familiar with most of the photographers on this site. I've been in a lot of
threads on this site and I've never seen a photographer put down a model for
not doing a nude.
Enlighten me.
This thread is just a bunch of crap trying to make yourself look good as
some savior of poor, helpless models. Here is one right here.
https://www.modelmayhem.com/posts.php?thread_id=108591
Photographer
S W I N S K E Y
Posts: 24376
Saint Petersburg, Florida, US
J Douglas wrote:
My GOD @ the slaughtering of the English language in here. It's YOU'RE when referring to someone, it's YOUR when referring to something belonging to someone. FFS. i always use the wrong you're /your and there/their/they're in the forumas.....its like spinning a top....whizzzzz...
and you must be a blast at parties btw...
Photographer
Craig Seay
Posts: 8606
Nashville, Tennessee, US
Brett Nicholls wrote:
I'm not one typical to put out my two cents unless I'm asked for it, but what's the deal with all the photographers out there complaining about female models who won't shoot nudes? Is there some unwritten law that I've missed that says a woman must do nudes or imply, sheer, etc. to be considered a good model, sexy, desirable, artistic, etc?
Maybe it's just me, but it seems like there are an awful lot of photographers out there putting down models who won't do nudes, and pressuring models with false hopes of "playboy" submissions and the like. If a woman doesn't want to take her clothes off for you, let her alone. But, to put that model down or to call her "less of a model" or play the "everyone who is anyone is doing it" routine, really has to stop. Sometimes I wonder how much of it is really about the "art" to begin with or more just some sexually frustrated pervs with lenses trying to get their peeps. Just my two cents. Thanks. It's cool to make statements like this. Models will feel more comfortable with you and it will be easier to get them to shoot nude.
Photographer
S W I N S K E Y
Posts: 24376
Saint Petersburg, Florida, US
J Douglas wrote:
And as to the topic it should ALWAYS be up to the model.
/thread [sarcasm] well ya know, sometimes they need a little coaxing..[/sarcasm]
Photographer
Webspinner Studios
Posts: 6964
Ann Arbor, Michigan, US
I have had models who just start taking their clothes off for me, models who want to try nude the first time with me, etc. I don't like breaking peoples cherry.....
However, I am thinking about doing an exchange with models who DO pose nude. Free portfolio development if they do a set of fine art nude with me. However, the choice should always be up to them. And since I am a nude model myself, if I get the yen too badly, I just take self portraits.
Photographer
UIPHOTOS
Posts: 3591
Dayton, Ohio, US
SKPhoto wrote:
Quite frankly the whole "sometimes no means yes" is a common "game" women play. There fixed that for ya.
And no it's not women only, my dad was very big on saying no to anything asked him the first time. Why? So he could agree later and you would be indebted to him.
And I quite agree, once no is said that is the end of the discussion. I personally have been slapped in anger by someone who wanted to play the game of no means yes and got quite agitated when I shut down the whole thing.
"Pressuring", my point is that for most of the complaints I've seen on here do not amount to -pressuring- , they amount to asking, and asking is not pressuring. Asking a second time does not amount to pressuring. And frankly as long as it is not asked to the point of harrassment or involves attempted coercion, asking multiple times is not pressuring.
Hey, you don't want to do something, say no. But don't tell people they have committed some great moral wrong or a crime by asking a question. They haven't.
Tip of the day for insecure people - never go to fast food resturants, they pressure you to increase the size of your meal. Wouldn't want a model pulling a gun and blowing someone away just because the model was being pressured to get a super-size fries. *GOLF CLAP* Sadly most wont understand..
I just find it funny that guys feel the need to ride in and play the hero around here.. and the fact that this pressure is VIRTUAL really makes it funny..
it isnt like some random photog is knocking on their real world doors or calling their real world phones.. So we have virtual pressure along with virtual heros to save them from it..
It is often obvious that people claim to be adults for the legal benefits but their behavior doesnt match the chronology..
Gotta luv the internet.. LOL
Photographer
SKPhoto
Posts: 25784
Newark, California, US
J Douglas wrote:
And as to the topic it should ALWAYS be up to the model.
/thread Include - don't apply for work you are unwilling to do.
Model
Lapis
Posts: 8424
Chicago, Illinois, US
Doug Swinskey wrote:
[sarcasm] well ya know, sometimes they need a little coaxing..[/sarcasm] When are you coming to Chicago to convince me to shoot nudes with you?
Photographer
S W I N S K E Y
Posts: 24376
Saint Petersburg, Florida, US
Doug Swinskey wrote:
[sarcasm] well ya know, sometimes they need a little coaxing..[/sarcasm] Lapis wrote:
When are you coming to Chicago to convince me to shoot nudes with you? convince?..what fun would it be if i didnt have to threaten you...
"you wanna be a "STAR" don't ya"....
Model
Lapis
Posts: 8424
Chicago, Illinois, US
Doug Swinskey wrote:
Doug Swinskey wrote:
[sarcasm] well ya know, sometimes they need a little coaxing..[/sarcasm] convince?..what fun would it be if i didnt have to threaten you...
"you wanna be a "STAR" don't ya".... Well, I am already 'famous', but you know, I think that it would be really cool to do some FHM or Maxim style glamour shots, and then as i finish the bottle of wine and stuf, I will get naked and start running around the studio uncontrollably shouting "I'm NEKKID". I think I definitely have what it takes to be a 'page 3' Maxim girl. Maybe I will do some spreads so we can send in some stuff to Hustler.....
Photographer
S W I N S K E Y
Posts: 24376
Saint Petersburg, Florida, US
Lapis wrote:
I will get naked and start running around the studio uncontrollably shouting "I'm NEKKID". that sounds hot....
Lapis wrote:
Maybe I will do some spreads so we can send in some stuff to Hustler..... ..well..."you wanna be a "STAR" don't ya".....
Photographer
Webspinner Studios
Posts: 6964
Ann Arbor, Michigan, US
That lapis...there is nothing I can do about her.
Photographer
Tog
Posts: 55204
Birmingham, Alabama, US
I forced Ocean Jasper to shoot nude..
I admit it..
I'm a user and an abuser.
Photographer
Campbells Photography
Posts: 196
Troutman, North Carolina, US
The way I see it if a photographer has to ask you to shoot nude he truly is not proffessional and probably has a video camera mounted somewhere out of veiw for his pleasure later like in the dressing room or bathroom,,,,,,,thats like me telling a bride that when we get ready to shoot the guarder being removed she must face me and not wear any panties,,,Sounds to me that the models should be getting everything in writing and pre approved with the photog prior to ever going to the shoot and if the model does not or will not do nudes put that in writing so if it is ever brought up during the shoot by the photog then the whole shoot is off,,I thought the TFCD and TFP was to benefit both parties and not for the photog to get his rocks off will shooting and then jerking off after she is gone,,,,,,,,,,,,,Darren
Photographer
S W I N S K E Y
Posts: 24376
Saint Petersburg, Florida, US
Campbells Photography wrote:
The way I see it if a photographer has to ask you to shoot nude he truly is not proffessional and probably has a video camera mounted somewhere out of veiw for his pleasure later like in the dressing room or bathroom,,,,,,,thats like me telling a bride that when we get ready to shoot the guarder being removed she must face me and not wear any panties,,,Sounds to me that the models should be getting everything in writing and pre approved with the photog prior to ever going to the shoot and if the model does not or will not do nudes put that in writing so if it is ever brought up during the shoot by the photog then the whole shoot is off,,I thought the TFCD and TFP was to benefit both parties and not for the photog to get his rocks off will shooting and then jerking off after she is gone,,,,,,,,,,,,,Darren hmmm..(doug thinks to himslef after a gallery show and a book of nudes)...tell me cambell, if you dont "ask" models to pose nude....
how do you suppose all those models wind up in books and galleries?
no offesnse buddy, but your response was one of the more ridiculous things i have read online...
Photographer
STUDIOMONA PHOTOGRAPHY
Posts: 33697
Avon, Minnesota, US
It's all in the way the photographer asks. If he is there salivating like a mad dog, run, run as fast as you can, and don't look back! Then send for your stuff later hee hee
Photographer
Campbells Photography
Posts: 196
Troutman, North Carolina, US
When you go to a store do you ask if you have to pay for the product,,,,,,,,NO simply take it and purchase then leave.
Same with a photoshoot the model comes in knows what he/she wants expects it to be done in a proffessional matter and leaves, some have shoot sheets if they are well organized or on a time frame and will abide by the sheet.
If there is a model who is unsure about nudes and they bring it up in question then it is ok to make sugestions regarding the topic but they should never feel preassured about it at anytime because the photog wants to see some tits and ass,,,,,,,,
Photographer
Henri3
Posts: 7392
Minneapolis, Minnesota, US
SKPhoto wrote:
Except of course when it means -
-yes
-ask me again because I don't think you're serious
-ask me again, I'm shy
-tell me what's in it for me first
-tell me it will be fun and I'll do it
-and many others.
And before anyone decides to call me a pig I have all these answers numerous times over from the ladies themselves on the occasions where we've talked about such things in a non-photographic setting.
And as I've said elsewhere - it's not a crime to ask so get over yourselves. Hey... I've gotta survey models I know and look into this. Unless a model has nudes in her port I rarely even ask.
Unfortunately many models starting out, subconsciously equate nudity with sex, so it's a barrier for sure. And yeah shooting nudes is one thing...having them on the web is another issue for models. I've shot quite a lot of nudework, that isn't gonna be on the web.. out of deference to a model's wishes.
Have had a few models decide to try some nudelike shots.....every one of 'em enjoyed trying it, the liberating experience, and the resulting images.
I modeled nude when an art student, dancer for 3 years and loved it...when I was more buff and athletic....but would never ask a model to do anything that wasn't flattering... and certainly never use any images that didn't flatter her.
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