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Biblical teachings vs. Erotic/Glamour Nudes--What?
Hello my fellow MMers... I need your valued expertise and opinion. I am about to re-emerge into the photography/modeling scene and I need some ideas about how to "begin again", to wit: During the late 70s & early 80s I was the proverbial "GWC"... attempting to become known. I spent time, money and many hours of "practice" learning and applying my craft. Later in the mid-80s, I married my "fairytale" sweetheart, whom I had to promise "not to photograph" women in the erotic/nude (which is my passion and forte.) I maintained my promise for nearly 13 years; later (after the divorce), while attempting to revive my chosen endeavor, I became physically ill, for many years, with a chronic condition, which I am now pleased to say has been greatly alleviated. However, during my time away from the "lens, lights and lust" (LOL), I was "exposed" to a spiritual rebirth which has created a sort of quandary for me, in that I'm trying to balance "that which is right-??" (biblical teachings) with "that which is my pride and passion" (art form). I've already considered: 1) a different specialization in photography, 2) giving up my religious beliefs, 3) seeking counsel from "higher authorities" and even photographing "church folk on Sunday after-meetings". I may sound somewhat facetious, but seriously though, I will welcome and respect any, and all viewpoints on this subject, and will hold no one to blame for speaking the truth... ALL "B.S." to the side -- Please Help!! Anyone (male or female) who has had similar thoughts or convictions, especially anyone with an understanding "mate" (married or not), please send me a shout out; my life is being taken "one frame at a time", and my "exposure" in life needs to be shown ... in the final "proof"!! Thanx! Dec 18 06 10:38 pm Link If you've already thought about giving up your religious beliefs, they must not have been that important to you... just my opinion. but it really depends what religion you are in order for anyone to tell you what it says about it. Don't just say you read the Bible, there are tons of different bibles out there. If you have already said what religion you are then pay me no mind- im tired  Dec 18 06 10:42 pm Link JAY-DUB2 wrote: 1) would you still bring it the same passion? Dec 18 06 10:44 pm Link 14 I praise you, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made. Wonderful are your works; my soul knows it very well. 15 My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret, intricately woven in the depths of the earth. -Psalm 139 Dec 18 06 10:49 pm Link "God" Created man / people, nude / naked on the sixth day and saw that it was good⦠I agree and will on occasion shoot nudes and I too see that it is good!!! Dec 18 06 10:50 pm Link Ron Casas wrote: This is true. To be honest, I have a great deal of trouble understanding the religious views towards nudity and sex. If indeed god made us we were made as he saw fit. Right? This includes sex, nudity, and naughty bits. If this is seen as bad, or as being pornographic, does this make god a pornographer? Erotica celebrates our passions and beauty as humans; I cannot understand why this should be considered "sinful" as it was god who created all this in the first place. Dec 18 06 10:56 pm Link well the bible says sex before marriage is a sin and sex with anyone other then your wife/husband is a sin. Sex was made so we could reproduce- but was meant to be pleasing between a husband and wife... Then when Adam and Eve sinned by eating the fruit, they saw they were naked and hid- so then God covered them. When they were created there was no sin, but since they disobeyed God by eating the forbidden fruit, sin was introduced into the world. Remember that the serpent was the devil.... just my 10 cents Dec 18 06 10:59 pm Link "Everybody wants to go to Heaven, but nobody wants to die." Well, not exactly the case here, but not far from it. Let's be brutally honest, shall we? If you believe that taking glamour nudes is going to incite lustful thoughts in the viewer and is therefore against Biblical teachings, that's it. Game over. Take them and you're sinning. Unrepented sins are sort of Bad News. If you think it's unChristian to do it, all else is rationalization. No matter what anybody else says, no matter how good their arguments, by doing something you don't think God wants you to do, you are sinning. You are turning your face and acts from Him. Do you think He is going to say, "Well, you knew it was wrong, but some fast talker on a photography board convinced you that it wasn't, so We'll let it slide this time?" If you're not going to listen to logic regarding the existence of God in the first place, it looks like poor sport to say, "Well, okay, but just convince me that He wasn't serious about this one thing that I really want to do." Are you familiar with the joke whose punchline is, "... and now you're a fish?" M Dec 18 06 11:24 pm Link art over religion i always say , because if the religions had their way, they'd make us all slaves. Dec 18 06 11:31 pm Link Pat Thielen wrote: Well...yes God created everything. He also created Satan. God even created murderers too. So would you also say that you do not see why murdering is sinful since God created murderers as well? Dec 18 06 11:41 pm Link I recently struggled with the same issue. Through prayer and through others He revealed the answer to me. Bottom line, Stop shooting nudes, period. There is so many more things that can be photographed that show the beauty and creativity of our God. I have listed just a few things that are laid out as examples in the Bible as to how we are to act. If God wanted us to stay nude He would have simply told Adam and Eve that being naked was OK. Instead He clothed them. Genesis 3:21 Nudity as a result of sin causes lust of the eyes, which is frowned upon. 1 John 2:15-17 Images like that can cause others to sin. The Bible is clear that we should not course others to fall. Romans 14:13 1 Corinthians 8:9 2 Corinthians 6:3 Dec 18 06 11:42 pm Link Ever since adam and eve learned that they weren't suppose to be naked in the first place.. it became a bad thing.  Dec 18 06 11:48 pm Link I agree. This is a non-issue. Pornography exists only if you assume that sex is bad. I, for one, assume that sex is good and that God does not exist. If God does exist, then he or she deserves to be severely reprimanded for the poor job he/she has done educating people about sexuality. God, actually, would probably have better things to do. In Fact, I figure that our natural desires are in fact "God's" word about sex and love anyway, so I figure it is sensible to go with your sexual instincts. Love and lust are the word of God, if there is a God. All of which is to say, the human body is beautiful and to be celebrated--perhaps most reverently as a sex object. So, let there be nudes. Dec 18 06 11:49 pm Link Ron Casas wrote: EXCEPT than when man "sinned" he was thrown out of the garden and made to cover him/herself...no bible based religion in the world will condone nude photography. ESPECIALLY erotic nude photography as you mentioned. So you either take the Bible (Christian) and it's teaching as a life path or you dump it and take sexually arousing images. Only MY OPINION of course. But let's find a minister to disagree. While the great churches of Europe may have naked people painted all over them they are not meant to arouse and are usually biblical in nature. So unless you want to redo "Garden of Eden" or "Destruction of Babel" over and over again you are done. Of course you can do as so many "religious" people do and be a hypocrite..or find an isolated passage of the Bible to back up what you want to think. Dec 18 06 11:51 pm Link I say ditch the religion. If you'd even consider doing such, it can't be that important to you, and you can't be that certain of it. Personally though, although I'm agnostic, I don't see why God would be offended by nudity if he's up there. We come out naked...all the pictures of Adam and Eve I've ever seen, they were naked...what reason could God have for not wanting you to take nude pictures? Dec 18 06 11:52 pm Link y would he ask what the Bible says about them if he didn't believe in God...??? just a question Dec 18 06 11:54 pm Link The Bible, (and oddly enough the Quran too) says "Thou shalt not press thine button wherewith which yee shall capture images og the young impressionable female model in which she is in a state of less than full dress" Im not sure which book that is, but it's somewhere near the middle. Dec 18 06 11:57 pm Link Michael Thayer wrote: Job...along with all the other stuff that makes God seem like a real loon. Dec 18 06 11:58 pm Link I think I like Kaitlin Dec 18 06 11:59 pm Link Kaitlin Lara wrote: I agree. And isn't "lust" the problem of the person viewing the work? It's like this: Dec 19 06 12:01 am Link Colin Talcroft wrote: I think whoever decided to put Job in the Bible should've gotten fired Dec 19 06 12:01 am Link Kaitlin Lara wrote: What? Just the book of Job? Dec 19 06 12:02 am Link Ron Casas wrote: It is true that God created us naked. Dec 19 06 12:03 am Link The Bible was written by men in order to form Religion, the primary use of which is to control the masses and get people to do (or not do) what the writers wanted them to do (or not do). The question of a God and/or a Higher Power is well above and beyond this. The Human body is an amazing thing. Art is an affirmation of our mortal lives. Keep your Spiritual life alive and follow the Muse you met years ago. Forget what Religion is trying to force you to do against your will, desire and need. Just make sure you treat your fellow man and model with Dignity and Respect, and the way you would want them to treat you. -R Dec 19 06 12:04 am Link Jared H wrote: But they were supposed to be naked in the first place. That's how they were made and that's how they should have stayed. This whole concept has really screwed us up as people... I think there should be more nude photos taken. Maybe then we can get back to "Eden." Dec 19 06 12:05 am Link Rowen wrote: This is extremely well said! I'm just not writing well tonight; thanks for putting this in perspective. Dec 19 06 12:06 am Link Pat Thielen wrote: Job's just the easiest one to tear apart as clearly retarded...lol Dec 19 06 12:11 am Link Kaitlin Lara wrote: I just think god is a sociopath. But that's just me. Dec 19 06 12:13 am Link It' good to find a meaningful thread like this. I got challenged for bringing up religous beliefs in another thread (it was only like 4th posting evr at the time, I'm still new to this), so it's good to find a religous theme thread that I can safely participate in. It seems like the op may have found his answer in the postings already made. In my opinion, the "enemy" might be at work in trying to get you to believe you should give up your faith, and go with a "desire" but just my opinion according to my knowledge of the bible and real-life struggles. Remember, the enemy's sole goal is to separate the people of God from God, just consider my thoughts you don't have to accept it. So, this whole topic naturally begs another question : Does a believer belong taking part in MM period? A community where theres are nudist ports, some that display dark/satanic images, horrors, rituals and people impersonating Satan himdself in images? This has been convicting me lately as I grow in my faith, and now I wonder if the model industry itself and the MM website is too tainted for a believer to be involved with. Just my 2 cents, hope it helps... Dec 19 06 12:14 am Link Just my 2 cents, If you think it's wrong, don't do it because it is. Use your gut instinct which in most cases with most people is acurate the first time. On the other hand if you can ask for forgiveness and be forgiven don't sweat it. Ultimately I'd say your going to do it just because your questioning your so called beliefs (no pun intended). As to Christianity, I've seen pictures of boobies in nearly every bible (king James version) I've ever seen. No not nessasarily depicted in a pornographic measure, but they were boobies just the same. So that just adds to the confusion for me concerning your question. That Adam and Eve or people in general were created in the buff, well, I can't imagine a birthing of a fully clothed child, can you. Other than that of a Christian faith, I really have no clue and even then I'm lost as the scriptures were writen several centurys ago and it just accurs to me that the meanings thereof are most relevant to that era. Yes some interpritations are certainly relevant still today but for the most part I feel religion is blown way out of proportion. Like I said to begin with though, best bet is to stick to your gut instinct. Dec 19 06 12:16 am Link Clarence aka Big C wrote: Then why are you here? Dec 19 06 12:16 am Link Glorify God with your photography and keep your conscience clear. When I don't do this I lose the joy in what I do. Dec 19 06 12:20 am Link I don't think I see anything wrong with boobs- because of the whole breastfeeding thing and I breastfed, but I don't think a womans vagina should be shot (although thats only my opinion and I don't force my beliefs on other people and I don't tell them they are going to hell for it.) But I guess it really depends on what you're trying to portray in the picture.... Dec 19 06 12:20 am Link It all boils down to your convictions with God and the mindset in which you create the work. If you're doing it from a sexual point of view then sexuality will be the vibe of the piece, if you're doing it as an artistic nude then the atmosphere created by it wont invoke lust, but rather artistic appreciation. I have some nudes in my port, and i think i have tastefully captured the female form without invoking any lustful emotions. Take a look and tell me what you think. Dec 19 06 12:21 am Link i am a Pagan nudity is all good no rules against it Dec 19 06 12:22 am Link Kaitlin Lara wrote: I joined to meet/work with photographers, other models and network. I didn't know the other stuff was around until I encountered it. How do you know what God says ? You don't know what he's saying and cannot speak for him unless you are a preacher or believer and reader of his word. I show my ab pics so I can get modeling work in the fitness industry BTW. Dec 19 06 12:26 am Link Nonsense, the female genitalia are beautiful. They deserve to be seen and celebrated. Dec 19 06 12:26 am Link Clarence aka Big C wrote: Well I was just joking around...but now that you mention it...if I can't know what God's saying how did the guys who wrote the Bible know? I just think if you really think all this is against God's will you should've asked to have your port deleted by now. Dec 19 06 12:28 am Link Kaitlin Lara wrote: This is just stupid and shows that you do not desire to give any advise, just bash religion in any form. Dec 19 06 12:35 am Link I believe Adam was partial to the Canon Dec 19 06 12:37 am Link |
And you better like me! Because your work is beautiful...and I'm always sad when someone talented dislikes me.
