Nemi Bea wrote:
Because we don't have money.

You = Working Professional
Me =  20 year old kid, 40 thousand dollars in debt.

duh.


Why don't you chat about something else that has been beat into the fucking ground?

Wow. So offensive.

If you are 40k in debt you need to find amatuer photographers who are looking for the same thing. I recieved an email today that was rude, simply because I said I no longer do TFP.

Anyway, have a nice day.

Mos Photography wrote:
please dont go off on me when I say I am not accpeting any TFP. Why do models want to use the best photographers on MM, but not pay for his/her talent?

uh,..., not sure where anyone went off on you about not accepting TFPs ...

(many of us don't, we just don't announce it so much)

... but don't we all wish for a good deal? more for our money's worth? e.g., hoping to work with better talent, be it models or photographers, when & how the opportunity might present itself? so much the better if it comes in form of an exchange?

F

Nemi Bea wrote:
Because we don't have money.

You = Working Professional
Me =  20 year old kid, 40 thousand dollars in debt.

duh.


Why don't you chat about something else that has been beat into the fucking ground?

true that homey.

Mos Photography wrote:
My problem is when I tell you I am no long accepting and you write me back saying "oh, well, I never pay for pictures. You should be willing to shoot me for free"

Fine. You'll hear this from time to time. Try perhaps to find something flattering in that you were asked, then move on. Thank the person for his/her interest in your work & move on. No need for further announcements, right? I mean, it is on your profile, so why not let it be?

Just a couple thoughts,
F

ERM Photography wrote:
I am pretty sure no one actually reads the thread... which is a shame when it is only about 10 posts. I understand what you are saying MOS, I had a model get mad at me for not wanting to shoot her TFP- she didn't realize that there actually are expenses in TFP (film, makeup, time etc) and that its actually not just free pictures for everyone involved.

and some photographers don't realize that there are model expenses that go into TFP also (gotta get my roots done, get the nails done, possibly buy a brand new outfit).

just sayin. goes both ways.

Shawn Ray wrote:
I feel your pain.  However, take it as a compliment that they would love to shoot with you.  You do have great stuff in your port.  If I was a starving model with no money, hey, what harm is done for asking.  Maybe you would say yes.  That being said... modeling is a business like any other business.  If you want to become successful, somewhere down the road, you will need to make an investment... period!  There is no way around it.  All the successful models that I work with have paid for their pics.... several times over.  And because of that, they are working.  You obviously have to have what it takes, but that is the cold, hard facts.  Anyone who doesn't agree is probably not a workign model, or doesn't understand the business.

This is so true. Most models I shoot have no problem paying, and they steadily have work. If you ask me, no problem. I have nothing against that. I just dont like the models who are totally against ever paying for a shoot. I know if I came across a great model and I knew I wanted to you her BAD, because she would bring something great to my port, I would have no problem paying her. You get what you pay for.

Olesja Mueller wrote:
That was just one model. And that's the end of it:)
Some people have too much attitude, and this thread is all about one of them. But more specifically, about you being upset and wanting to went:)

well said

Side Effects Studio wrote:
It could be because you have in your profile: "I am a 21 year old college student aspiring to be one of the greatest photographers to ever touch a camera!" then want people to pay you.

Unfortunately, saying that you're a student and that you're "aspiring" doesn't exactly motivate people to open their wallets. If you believe that you're ready to go 'pro', then go 'pro', and commence charging.

I dont care if it said I was a 10 year old dog looking for my next meal, a portfolio speaks for itself. I think my images are decent, and as a photographer, I have the right to accept TFP's or the right not to. Me stating my age and the fact that I am a college student is to show that I do have room to grow EVEN MORE.

Mos Photography wrote:

I dont care if it said I was a 10 year old dog looking for my next meal, a portfolio speaks for itself. I think my images are decent, and as a photographer, I have the right to accept TFP's or the right not to. Me stating my age and the fact that I am a college student is to show that I do have room to grow.

Whew!!!  I'm exhausted!  Well said, though.  Keep on trucking, Bro.  As long as you have room to grow, you will.  Cheesy, huh?

Mos Photography wrote:
I dont care if it said I was a 10 year old dog looking for my next meal, a portfolio speaks for itself. I think my images are decent, and as a photographer, I have the right to accept TFP's or the right not to. Me stating my age and the fact that I am a college student is to show that I do have room to grow.

you aren't making a good argument for yourself...it's going downhill....sorry. If you  have room to grow then why did you make the below comment?

Mos Photography wrote:
Why do models want to use the best photographers on MM, but not pay for his/her talent?

Mos Photography wrote:
I dont care if it said I was a 10 year old dog looking for my next meal, a portfolio speaks for itself. I think my images are decent, and as a photographer, I have the right to accept TFP's or the right not to. Me stating my age and the fact that I am a college student is to show that I do have room to grow.

At no point did I say you didn't have the right to do whatever you wished, I simply pointed out what someone might extrapolate in context. It's part of self-marketing.

mcStudio wrote:
yeah... we should just kill TFP all together. 

say no to TFP!  say no to TFP!

Amen!

Seth wrote:
Anyone want to talk about calamari?  I made it tongiht.  Very proud of myself - hard make good calamari.

well done indeed.

Jessalyn_54 wrote:

you aren't making a good argument for yourself...it's going downhill....sorry. If you  have room to grow then why did you make the below comment?

Because like stated before, this not only happened to me but also other photographers. If you are the best at something or ONE of the best (in your opinion), then it is STILL possible to get better. Common sense. Kobe Bryant is probably one of the best ball players in the NBA, but that doesnt mean he cant increase his game.

Jessalyn_54 wrote:

well done indeed.

Thanks   Didn't mean to hijack the thread and didn't really want to start a calamari thread, but I am proud of myself.  It's really easy to overcook it and it came out perfect

Mos Photography wrote:

I dont care if it said I was a 10 year old dog looking for my next meal, a portfolio speaks for itself. I think my images are decent, and as a photographer, I have the right to accept TFP's or the right not to. Me stating my age and the fact that I am a college student is to show that I do have room to grow.

Yes the images should speak for themselves but part of being a successful anything is marketing yourself properly and how others perceive you. Many, many photographers take fantastic images but who are the ones that are hugely successful? The ones that know how to market those amazing photos.

I know the thread got off track from your original post (or what I got from it). You don't want to be insulted when you explain to a model that you're not interested in tfp. That's the right of both model and photographer...to professionally say no when not interested without burning bridges.

Michael Pandolfo wrote:

Yes the images should speak for themselves but part of being a successful anything is marketing yourself properly and how others perceive you. Many, many photographers take fantastic images but who are the ones that are hugely successful? The ones that know how to market those amazing photos.

I know the thread got off track from your original post (or what I got from it). You don't want to be insulted when you explain to a model that you're not interested in tfp. That's the right of both model and photographer...to professionally say no when not interested without burning bridges.

Now I agree with you.

Mos Photography wrote:

Because like stated before, this not only happened to me but also other photographers. If you are the best at something or ONE of the best (in your opinion), then it is STILL possible to get better. Common sense. Kobe Bryant is probably one of the best ball players in the NBA, but that doesnt mean he cant increase his game.

well it still goes the other way. if a model thinks she one the best or even is one of the best, shouldn't you be paying her? so you may think you're worthy of being paid but that model thinks the exact same thing.

Side Effects Studio wrote:
It could be because you have in your profile: "I am a 21 year old college student aspiring to be one of the greatest photographers to ever touch a camera!" then want people to pay you.

Unfortunately, saying that you're a student and that you're "aspiring" doesn't exactly motivate people to open their wallets. If you believe that you're ready to go 'pro', then go 'pro', and commence charging.

He has a very good point.  I wouldn't expect to pay someone who wasn't a working professional...

It'd be like paying someone to practice taking pictures of me.  And that is a bit off-putting compared to an exchange of experience on both sides.

But at the same time attitude is never needed.  That's undeserved and just crap.  Especially if it already says in your information that you don't do TFP.  She has no room to cop an attitude.  I'm sorry for you on that count and I know how that can be.

Mos Photography wrote:
I understand that some models are building their port, but please dont go off on me when I say I am not accpeting any TFP. Why do models want to use the best photographers on MM, but not pay for his/her talent?

There are more things in life than just money.  Sometimes you do things to help others, for your enjoyment, for your passion.  The feelings of reward for helping someone out far greater than mere money. 

  You are 21 and still in college.  Money will come once you finish your degree.

Jessalyn_54 wrote:

well it still goes the other way. if a model thinks she one the best or even is one of the best, shouldn't you be paying her? so you may think you're worthy of being paid but that model thinks the exact same thing.

Boy, people dont read. I have already stated that if I see a model that I WANT TO USE FOR MY PORTFOLIO and she is not accepting TFP. I have no problem paying her.

Mos Photography wrote:

Boy, people dont read. I have already stated that if I see a model that I WANT TO USE FOR MY PORTFOLIO and she is not accepting TFP. I have no problem paying her.

I'm showing you the opposing view to your argument. I haven't even looked at your port. I'm saying that you stated:

Mos Photography wrote:
Why do models want to use the best photographers on MM, but not pay for his/her talent?

Mos Photography wrote:
I dont care if it said I was a 10 year old dog looking for my next meal, a portfolio speaks for itself. I think my images are decent, and as a photographer, I have the right to accept TFP's or the right not to. Me stating my age and the fact that I am a college student is to show that I do have room to grow EVEN MORE.

The point is, that you have talent and they have talent. You want to be paid, they want to be paid.


I understand your original anger: models don't need to be rude about it. I agree. What I was opposing is your statement that all models should pay for what's in their ports.....pay you.

Chan Studio wrote:

There are more things in life than just money.  Sometimes you do things to help others, for your enjoyment, for your passion.  The feelings of reward for helping someone out far greater than mere money. 

  You are 21 and still in college.  Money will come once you finish your degree.

Its not that im money hungry or anything. Im fine in that situation. Its just the fact that some models refuse to pay, but will get pissed at you when you say you are no longer taking TFP. If a model can read and digest the fact that I am 21 and in college, then he/she should also be able to read and digest that Im no longer taking TFP. Both are on my page. How can you see one but not the other?

Mos Photography wrote:
Boy, people dont read.

And some people can't spell.

Might want to spell check your profile. Doesn't look very professional when you mispell words.

Jessalyn_54 wrote:

well it still goes the other way. if a model thinks she one the best or even is one of the best, shouldn't you be paying her? so you may think you're worthy of being paid but that model thinks the exact same thing.

This is simply not true.  You may find some photographers that will pay a model on this site, but when we're talking about the professional realm, it's a different ball game.  This is the only site of it's kind.  A site where a non-experienced model can put together a port that there Mom shot and want to charge for their services.  This is not aimed at you, just "models" that I've encountered here.  If the photographer is advertising TFP's, then fine.  But to go to a "Professional" photographer, when you are an amature model, and INSIST on free pics.  Well.... you get the picture.

Shawn Ray wrote:
Did someone say CALAMARI????

Yes, Yes I did