Juan Stevens wrote:

It's anti-GWC spray. They'll get nude with who they're comfortable with and they'll ask you.

I was about to say the same thing.  I know a model - call her "Sue" - who says on profiles that she doesn't do nude or topless, but I was shooting her and another model both topless.   The other model said to Sue, "I thought you didn't do topless."  Sue replied with a smile, "I do for Vivus."

Aww. 

Juan Stevens wrote:
yeah I hate those ghetto nude pictures myself. That's actually one of the reasons I started shooting. Was tired of seeing women of color always portrayed as total hos shot with a P&S with the room lamp.

I like your port, in that respect.. very down-to-earth images, pretty but not overly sexualized. I rarely find a picture of a model obviously *trying* to look sexy works well, (unless it has a touch of humour)but it's a very common approach. Nice to see such dignity with beauty.

Warped Figurine wrote:
A a subject, i perfer doing Artistic nudes. I love being free and comfortable in my skin.
As i saw in a post before, when i do see a black model pose nude it's either a booty shot, and usually theres poor lighting. It doesn't say much about the model or the photographer. It doesn't compliment both of them at all.

Hey, Samantha...you look great in this photo!

Beautiful.

David

vanscottie wrote:
I'm shooting my first nude black model next month. I know this will sound silly no doubt but I feel more of a pressure on myself to get it right. I've only shot one black model once, years ago, for her acting headshots and although she liked them and used them I didn't feel I captured her skin tone the way I thought I should.  Of course with a nude I gotta lot more skin to get right! So we'll see

I'm sure there's much more experienced people here, but I will say that shooting outside with Trish I found to my delight that direct harsh sunlight didn't turn her into a solar flare (as it does with my pale redheads and blondes) but just made her glow. I rarely lost information to highlights. All I had to do was make sure some bounced back into the shadows. Sunlight is your friend, for definition imho. Shoot a few f-stops wider than usual, if your setting can take it. For studio work, I have no idea, but the same principle I would imagine..

Allure Vision wrote:
Don't be scared to reply, did I strike a nerve somewhere?

My last two Fine Art Nude models have been black? Not sure what your point is? Your Portfolio shows your capability and your direction so if they see waht they precieve as art or porn I think that is the deterrmining factor.
Mike

Lelah G wrote:

I totally agree with what you are saying. 

Black women have had a looooong history of being sexualized.  We are considered sexual beings, which men of other races (predominately white) are dying to explore.  And this desire isn't much of a secret as it used to be way back when . . . So when you approach a black woman, with the initial intent of shooting nudes, the first thought that will pop into her head is "oh hell, he just wants to take pictures with my behind sticking out" or "he wants me to act like I'm in a porno, or tastless music video."  Something like that.  She wouldn't think sculpture, painting, abstraction, etc.

It could also very well be the location:  I'm from Los Angeles, land of the "everyone thinks they're a model" syndrome.  So you'll have tons of women of ALL RACES wanting to shoot with you, if it means they'll have "model pictures" to circulate.  But if it's a place in which modeling isn't as big of a female profession or aspiration, then you may experience some hesitation.

Just my nickle bag o' thoughts . . .

I think both of you have a great understanding of what's going on. The black women think "porn" immediately even when you say "topless" not even full nude. But I also think we are on to something here because just as women of other races have produced tasteful quality, stunning nudes, black women can too if they allow themselves to think artistically. As for GWC's the problem there is that here in Tennessee many of the black women would prefer to work with GWC's because it's free. So they never really learn the beauty of working with a real photographer or other great models with potential.

DigitalCMH wrote:
I like how you pointed out that the 6 Black models were mostly light skinned because we all know they aren't really Black so they don't count towards racial diversity.  Thanks Garry!  You are truely brilliant.

WTF?

lotusphoto wrote:

maybe it's because at some level models are supposed to make you buy the clohes they are wearing, white people have more money to spend on clothes so there are more white models

naw if you look at the statistics hun....black people are the largest consumers. We spend more money on clothing and other items even though we dont have the money. Yet marketing still isnt targeted to us. It is more so than nowadays but the hot spot for marketing nowadays is targeted at the hispanic market who in many instances are poorer than african americans.money really isnt the issue behind why you see more white models in more mainstream magazines and advertisements. Its because thats society's standard of beauty. Thin and European looking. Curves are more excepted nowadays but its still not standard. Many black women are curvy if not the majority and because of that standard you dont see as many in the major ads and magazines

can look at any billboard and browse through any magazine and youll see what I mean

warmest regards

Qiana M
model.actress.entrepreneur
www.qianam.net

Miles Chandler wrote:

Absolutely. And I wasn't saying anything against ethnic models- you look beautiful. One of my best models is part black/part native. I was just suggesting that perhaps many black women avoid nude work because they often aren't getting offered the best gigs, the most tasteful photographers.

yea Id have to agree with you on that one. nude and black women usually means smooth, black men, king for non adult themes and black tail, fish-n-grits etc for adult themes...so yea if a model got offered a gig in skin ad where shes naked e.g. palmers cocoa butter, dove etc then she may think twice about it. Hell even Playboy is more tasteful than alot of nude projects paid or non paid. Atleast its tasteful and has some prestige attached to it. Its all in how its done. The lighting, the makeup, setting,props and wardrobe if any, hair, make up,posing and even the model herself. Hell there are quite a few topless,nude themes Id like to try myself that Ive seen in magazines and photography books. Ultimately it comes down to how comfortable a model is in her skin and how comfortable she is with the team shes working with.

Alot of times a model has to worry about the people shes working with and whether their quality of work may hurt her career later down the line or if that photographer is trying to sleep with her, where her image will end up etc so shes leary about posing nude. Nudity just isnt widely accepted in the black community as it is other cultures so thats another factor hindering alot of black women from posing nude. And our community isnt alone on this. Its even worse for women of Middle Eastern descent.


warmest regards
Qiana M
model.actress.entrepreneur
www.qianam.net

accessqianam wrote:

naw if you look at the statistics hun....black people are the largest consumers. We spend more money on clothing and other items even though we dont have the money. Yet marketing still isnt targeted to us. It is more so than nowadays but the hot spot for marketing nowadays is targeted at the hispanic market who in many instances are poorer than african americans.money really isnt the issue behind why you see more white models in more mainstream magazines and advertisements. Its because thats society's standard of beauty. Thin and European looking. Curves are more excepted nowadays but its still not standard. Many black women are curvy if not the majority and because of that standard you dont see as many in the major ads and magazines

can look at any billboard and browse through any magazine and youll see what I mean

warmest regards

Qiana M
model.actress.entrepreneur
www.qianam.net

good point, thanks, i didn't know blacks spent more, is that by percent of income per person?

lotusphoto wrote:

good point, thanks, i didn't know blacks spent more, is that by percent of income per person?

Id have to look it up for this year but it was a dollar amount that was given. The article (believe it was in Black Enterprise) did mention percent of income spent on clothing and other items but what stuck out to me more was the total amount spent. Millions of dollars. Unfortunately, my culture is more materialistic and hasnt been educated and encouraged in investing. Its something that historically hasnt been taught and when you make it to a certain level in life, if you were always broke you tend to spend your money on luxury items mainly once you can afford to. Unless, of course your taught the value of money,spending it wisely and investing to build wealth. So blacks continue to be the largest group of consumers with Hispanics catching up if they havent passed us already. Hispanics pretty much are the largest ethnic group right now if not they will be by 2008 or 2010 according to the US census

warmest regards
Qiana M
model.actress.entrepreneur
www.qianam.net

accessqianam wrote:
Nudity just isnt widely accepted in the black community as it is other cultures so thats another factor hindering alot of black women from posing nude.


warmest regards
Qiana M
model.actress.entrepreneur
www.qianam.net

I suspect that's true, for a couple of reasons (cultural and religious), although I have no hard data to back it up.  Anyway, there are exceptions, so let's not generalize too much, regardless.

Vivus Denuo wrote:

I suspect that's true, for a couple of reasons (cultural and religious), although I have no hard data to back it up.  Anyway, there are exceptions, so let's not generalize too much, regardless.

No generalizations are being made. Its fact and involves both cultural views and religious views. Being from a city that is 80% black(Detroit) and that I am mostly African American myself I see it, hear it all the time and have read about it. There are points on previous pages in this post alone that point to the sexualization and exploitation of black women throughout history that may or may not have links to sources explain why black women and the black community in general feels the way it does about nudity. Read them as well as books on the subject then also look up african americans and religion (mainly Christianity) and you have your answers.

Ofcourse there exceptions to most rules. Widely accepted just means by the majority, not by all

Warmest regards
Qiana M
model.actress.entrepreneur
www.qianam.net

Shyly wrote:
You don't count.  Everybody gets naked for Superman.

DigitalCMH wrote:
I don't...wait...

***Checks work***

...yup, I don't.  No offense to the Superman, but there is NO way he can make me look hot.

::: with arched brow :::

Hmmm, sounds like an overtime job with 'hazard pay'.

Bring it! 

bt

Garry k wrote:

WTF?

You didn't get it?  You mentioned in your stats that there were 6 Black models.  You didn't stop there.  You had to point out that they were light skinned.  WTF does that matter?  Does that make them less Black?  YOU pointed out that they are light skinned, why would you do that?  How important is their color shade?  Out of the white models, did you indicate which ones are tanned and not?  How about the Asians?  They can be pretty diverse in their skin tones.  I'm guessing that you were trying to make a point and if not, why mention it at all?

Bruce Talbot wrote:

Shyly wrote:
You don't count.  Everybody gets naked for Superman.

::: with arched brow :::

Hmmm, sounds like an overtime job with 'hazard pay'.

Bring it! 

bt

$150/hr with a 3 hour minimum.  I get a CD of all the images within 2 weeks. I expect no less than 2 edited photos of each look and in maximum resolution (I know you use a D70, so I expect nothing less than 3008x2000 pixels).  And you have to provide makeup (if needed) and wardrobe.  And if anything needs to be applied to my body, you can hire a female assistant to do it.

I just brought it.

DigitalCMH wrote:
Does that make them less Black?  YOU pointed out that they are light skinned, why would you do that?

Well, I would assume because we see lighter-skinned black models in fashion much more commonly, and the ones whose features conform more closely to Caucasian than African.. it has been pointed out that this seems to represent a very grudging acceptance of other standards of beauty, in that a person of a certain ethnicity still has to conform to a "white standard".. There's a lot more Janet Jacksons than Tracy Chapmans out there in print...  I think Garry was just pointing out that there is more to diversity than a 20% skin colour range..

Lelah G wrote:
Black women have had a looooong history of being sexualized.  We are considered sexual beings, which men of other races (predominately white) are dying to explore.  And this desire isn't much of a secret as it used to be way back when . . . So when you approach a black woman, with the initial intent of shooting nudes, the first thought that will pop into her head is "oh hell, he just wants to take pictures with my behind sticking out" or "he wants me to act like I'm in a porno, or tastless music video."  Something like that.  She wouldn't think sculpture, painting, abstraction, etc.

Lelah's point deserves to be re-stated. This is exactly the idea of the Sapphire. And the troublesome history of the oversexualization of women of color is incredibly far reaching in all of the arts. Conrad's Heart of Darkness, anyone?

It's cool to see some Black photographers on this thread that are shooting Black nudes. However, the "usual" syndrome of white men's fascination with "the exotic" is a killer. I do not want to imply in any way that white male photographer's shouldn't photograph Black women, but when they do...it should be with the greatest of care and respect toward the history of how these women have been portrayed in media.

I guess that makes it four cents for me now.

xx

DigitalCMH wrote:
$150/hr with a 3 hour minimum.  I get a CD of all the images within 2 weeks. I expect no less than 2 edited photos of each look and in maximum resolution (I know you use a D70, so I expect nothing less than 3008x2000 pixels).  And you have to provide makeup (if needed) and wardrobe.  And if anything needs to be applied to my body, you can hire a female assistant to do it.

I just brought it.

Oh puh-leeze, a D70 is soooo last year. 

I'll use the good stuff and break out my Etch-a-Sketch. Say now, ya won't mind having a pointy head eh? Making circles on that thing is a b-i-t-c-h!

......... and you will be getting nekkid ..........riiiiyeeeeet?

bt

(( this just in - all my assistants are insisting on the use of slingshots and 10' poles ))

Allure Vision wrote:
I know this post is going to get a lot of attention because of the title. But, I have a question. Yes I am a black photographer and the majority of the women I shoot are black women. The women of other races seem to be more open to topless or even full nudes on an artistic level. Or is it just my understanding? In my opinion I think nudity is an art form and can be explored. What else can be more natural. What more can be seen more beautiful? I have started to believe that more black women see nudity as porn. But when a woman of another race does it, it then becomes art.

"Allure"

A serious responce:

From what I have seen on this site, I disagree.  Maybe there are less "black" models in your area, though, so the number of them who pose nude may be low, but I bet the percentage is similar to models of other ethnicities.

dgold wrote:

Hey, Samantha...you look great in this photo!
..

I love the eye makeup.  .

DigitalCMH wrote:

I like how you pointed out that the 6 Black models were mostly light skinned because we all know they aren't really Black so they don't count towards racial diversity.  Thanks Garry!  You are truely brilliant.

Haha... I was going through this thread, and this quote is the one that I really agreed with. It's like when people tell me that I am not really hispanic cause I'm too dark... MALARKEY.... Again, thank you.

Lelah G wrote:

I totally agree with what you are saying. 

Black women have had a looooong history of being sexualized.  We are considered sexual beings, which men of other races (predominately white) are dying to explore.  And this desire isn't much of a secret as it used to be way back when . . . So when you approach a black woman, with the initial intent of shooting nudes, the first thought that will pop into her head is "oh hell, he just wants to take pictures with my behind sticking out" or "he wants me to act like I'm in a porno, or tastless music video."  Something like that.  She wouldn't think sculpture, painting, abstraction, etc.

It could also very well be the location:  I'm from Los Angeles, land of the "everyone thinks they're a model" syndrome.  So you'll have tons of women of ALL RACES wanting to shoot with you, if it means they'll have "model pictures" to circulate.  But if it's a place in which modeling isn't as big of a female profession or aspiration, then you may experience some hesitation.

Just my nickle bag o' thoughts . . .

I totally agree!  With "Allure" being in Tennessee, the location is not ideal.  There are still plenty of people alive who remember the struggles of the civil rights movement.  It's sure as hell ain't ancient history!  Therefore it can still be in the minds of some young black women who heard about through family or history class that posing nude just might be exploitative or demeaning.

No, I'm not into throwing the race card into the mix every time the subject of nude modeling and black women come up.  Nude photography can be incredibly artistic and beautiful regardless of the race of the model.  If "Alluring" was in California, he'd have a much better chance of finding black models (or any models for that matter!) who will pose nude. 

But I do have a question for "Alluring" ... what about pay?  For my own business reasons, I would not ever shoot a model "nude" without an exchange of money happening.  In other words, NO nude TFP!  Are you trying to get models to pose nude in a TFP shoot?  You'd do better ... (even in the South!) if you pay the models no matter what color they are!

Tony Lawrence wrote:
but based on the numbers I'd say we do work
and are seen in many of the national publications in numbers that reflect our
numbers in the general population.

That's what I was trying to say...but, my points never go across as planned