Iris Swope wrote:

But that's not true. Honestly, if you look at store ads, they might not be evenly divided, but there are plently of black models....


2 black people, 2 white people, 1 hispanic, I think


2 white people, 1 black, 1 black or hispanic


3 blacks, 5 whites

88 cent sale? how could i have been so wrong about 'disposible income' thanks for setting me straight on that one...



;-)

lotusphoto wrote:
88 cent sale? how could i have been so wrong about 'disposible income' thanks for setting me straight on that one...

Oh goodness...JcPenneys is having a sale this week... They use the same models whether it's for their 88 cent sale, or for the Prom Catalog, Store Posters etc....

Iris Swope wrote:

Oh goodness...JcPenneys is having a sale this week... They use the same models whether it's for their 88 cent sale, or for the Prom Catalog, Store Posters etc....

you're engaging, but i'm tired, love to keep talking...

a bit of what i say is in jest, i try to be a little provicative

lotusphoto wrote:

you're engaging, but i'm tired, love to keep talking...

a bit of what i say is in jest, i try to be a little provicative

It's 5am. I need to go to bed too...lol... I've leave this topic to the masses

Miss Martina wrote:
HELLO!!!
Im an ethnic model..and I can pose nude with the best of them.
I believe my images are of High Quality because I have been
blessed to work with some great photographers. Im very comfortable in my skin..
MY BODY IS MY TEMPLE.

Although, I will not hesitate when I say most of the good gigs get passed to the favorite model. I know the high stream magazines (PLAYBOY) is looking for more of
a diversity in the girls, but it still seems like I just cant catch a break.

Absolutely. And I wasn't saying anything against ethnic models- you look beautiful. One of my best models is part black/part native. I was just suggesting that perhaps many black women avoid nude work because they often aren't getting offered the best gigs, the most tasteful photographers.

Miles Chandler wrote:

Absolutely. And I wasn't saying anything against ethnic models- you look beautiful. One of my best models is part black/part native. I was just suggesting that perhaps many black women avoid nude work because they often aren't getting offered the best gigs, the most tasteful photographers.

yeah, I agree with you as well.

Ransom J wrote:

Well what about me?  I'm more like Jimmy, the Dailey Planet mail room guy, and I have no problem finding nudie models.  Black or otherwise. 


Hmmmm maybe my mail bag is clothing kryptonite.

Whatever it is, it works.  And from looking at your portfolio, it works well.  As do you; nice port!  Wish I could do that! 

In my own area, I haven't noticed that race or culture makes a lot of difference when it comes to modeling.  Maybe it does.  I just haven't seen it. 

-- rick

Allure Vision wrote:
In my opinion I think nudity is an art form and can be explored.

"Allure"

Maybe thats your problem.  If nudity in and of itself is art then why would they need you to help them make art? 
Nudity as art is a bizarre concept that I have beef with.  I shoot nudes all the time and have for years but have long since relieved myself of the illusion that nudity is art.  Nudity is no more artful than clothing and sometimes less.  The art, if you choose to use such a pretentious term, comes with your personal vision.  If your personal vision has nudity in it then more power to you.  Communicate that to the model, if she/he doesnt like it, then find one who is on the same page as you.  If your work is strong and your images set you apart from others, the models, nude and otherwise, come to you. 
If you believe in your vision and have the skills to pull it off, even if it involves midgets, farm animals, and a whole lot of Crisco, you will find some model who is inspired by it and wants to be a part of your work.

johnkphotography wrote:

midgets, farm animals, and a whole lot of Crisco

Now that is something I haven't done in awhile.

** Digging thru my closet, looking for my hip waders. **

Allure Vision wrote:
I know this post is going to get a lot of attention because of the title. But, I have a question. Yes I am a black photographer and the majority of the women I shoot are black women. The women of other races seem to be more open to topless or even full nudes on an artistic level. Or is it just my understanding? In my opinion I think nudity is an art form and can be explored. What else can be more natural. What more can be seen more beautiful? I have started to believe that more black women see nudity as porn. But when a woman of another race does it, it then becomes art.

"Allure"

Maybe so , but I think you would still have a much tougher time ( near impossible ) getting most Arabic or Arabic American ( Muslim ) women to pose nude or topless.....And how do you think the average E Indian -American Women would feel about such photography in general ,,,It would be more than just an issue of viewing such photography as porn - it would be an issue of compromising the whole familys name and reputation .... Chinese Nationals ( esp Tiawanese ) are also very conservative re this type of photography 

With respect to posing Topless or Nude ...Caucasion ( North American and European ) are in general the most open minded regarding  such

Iris Swope wrote:

But that's not true. Honestly, if you look at store ads, they might not be evenly divided, but there are plently of black models....


2 black people, 2 white people, 1 hispanic, I think


2 white people, 1 black, 1 black or hispanic


3 blacks, 5 whites


Personal Opinion...
The OP is just in the wrong area...

A local JC Penny ad does not provide a valid example  of the racial ( racist ) breakdown of models portrayed in the N American Fashion Media .....

Earlier this year( I believe it was June ) I dissected an issue of Vogue to find that there were over 300 white models and celebs pictured, 6 blacks ( most light skinned) and around 10 others ie Chinese Hispanic etc

Very sad.

StratMan wrote:
Produce excellent images, and you'll have no problems finding good talent, regardless of race. Let your work speak for itself.

Iona Lynn wrote:
If you want to shoot "art nudes" I suggest you put some very good art nudes in your portfolios.
Stop worring about what color your models are and learn to be better than superman at shooting. then you will get all women of all color and translucency begging to shoot with you.

Ding...Ding...Ding....We have a winner!!!

ERICKA KANE wrote:
I'M NOT SURE WHY THAT IS, BUT IT'S DEFINITELY NOT A PROBLEM FOR ME IF IT'S IN FACT "ART". YOU RUN ACROSS GWC'S ALOT IF U DON'T RESEARCH, SO MAYBE ALOT OF BLACK MODELS DON'T DO THEIR RESEARCH:)

Woo Hoo...we have another winner!

Iona Lynn wrote:
For the record I'm not white, I'm translucent...

If you want to shoot "art nudes" I suggest you put some very good art nudes in your portfolios.
Stop worring about what color your models are and learn to be better than superman at shooting. then you will get all women of all color and translucency begging to shoot with you.

Thats the point Iona, if you can't get any Black models to shoot nudes even art
nudes then how can you show any.  People are always saying that when a photographer speaks about not finding models to get better images.  Thats not
easy to do if you shoot models as again how can one get them.  To the question of Black women and nudes, location has a lot to do with things but based on the
OP'S work I'd think he wouldn't have much of a problem finding attractive Black
women willing to do nudes.  By the way I've read threads where some fantastic
photographers have trouble finding models.

Iris Swope wrote:
But that's not true. Honestly, if you look at store ads, they might not be evenly divided, but there are plently of black models....

Hey Iris...
I actually agree with you that (however, an uneven ratio) there are a number of images of black people in store ads... Moreso that in other forms of advertising.

But, in this example....a couple of corrections in regards to race identification needed. As it doesn't illustrate your point accurately.

First pic:
1 black model. (The same black model in two changes) As well, there is one white model in two changes of cloths. One hispanic model pictured solo.


Second picture:
Two white models. One hispanic or east indian model. Ome model that is either hispanic or american indian, east indian or mixed. There are no black models.



Third pic:
3 blacks, 5 whites
Faces shown - two white infants Two white kids. One white teen. One black kid and one black teen. Then there's one female teen who's mixed, but could be generalized as either black or hispanic. Then in gthe upper right there are legs and arms of two very fair skinned kids who are probably white as well.


Aside from this example, I do see what you are saying.

- CEA

Miles Chandler wrote:
I was really hoping somebody else would bring this up so I wouldn't have to take the flack, but...
I'd wager one reason many black female models are reluctant to do nudes is the quality of work they're usually offered. Over the past few months I've been noticing that black models on MM generally have much poorer image quality on average, and the nude work is usually horrible GWC quality, just booty shots with poor lighting. Is it possible there's enough of a prejudice on the part of the photographers or their clients (or the public the clients are aiming for) that it's harder for people of color to get good nude images for their portfolios?  I rarely if ever see a black nude or implied nude on this site that isn't trying to be "nasty and sexy". I'm sure that has its place, but why is that almost the universal approach with darker-skinned female models?
And yes, there are exceptions to this, and tons of white models have cheesy GWC nudes in their ports too, but it's a trend I have really noticed looking through hundreds of ports, and I certainly wasn't looking for it!

I totally agree with what you are saying. 

Black women have had a looooong history of being sexualized.  We are considered sexual beings, which men of other races (predominately white) are dying to explore.  And this desire isn't much of a secret as it used to be way back when . . . So when you approach a black woman, with the initial intent of shooting nudes, the first thought that will pop into her head is "oh hell, he just wants to take pictures with my behind sticking out" or "he wants me to act like I'm in a porno, or tastless music video."  Something like that.  She wouldn't think sculpture, painting, abstraction, etc.

It could also very well be the location:  I'm from Los Angeles, land of the "everyone thinks they're a model" syndrome.  So you'll have tons of women of ALL RACES wanting to shoot with you, if it means they'll have "model pictures" to circulate.  But if it's a place in which modeling isn't as big of a female profession or aspiration, then you may experience some hesitation.

Just my nickle bag o' thoughts . . .

Shyly wrote:
You don't count.  Everybody gets naked for Superman.

I don't...wait...

***Checks work***

...yup, I don't.  No offense to the Superman, but there is NO way he can make me look hot.

Garry k wrote:
Earlier this year( I believe it was June ) I dissected an issue of Vogue to find that there were over 300 white models and celebs pictured, 6 blacks ( most light skinned) and around 10 others ie Chinese Hispanic etc

Very sad.

I like how you pointed out that the 6 Black models were mostly light skinned because we all know they aren't really Black so they don't count towards racial diversity.  Thanks Garry!  You are truely brilliant.

Miles Chandler wrote:
I was really hoping somebody else would bring this up so I wouldn't have to take the flack, but...
I'd wager one reason many black female models are reluctant to do nudes is the quality of work they're usually offered. Over the past few months I've been noticing that black models on MM generally have much poorer image quality on average, and the nude work is usually horrible GWC quality, just booty shots with poor lighting. Is it possible there's enough of a prejudice on the part of the photographers or their clients (or the public the clients are aiming for) that it's harder for people of color to get good nude images for their portfolios?  I rarely if ever see a black nude or implied nude on this site that isn't trying to be "nasty and sexy". I'm sure that has its place, but why is that almost the universal approach with darker-skinned female models?
And yes, there are exceptions to this, and tons of white models have cheesy GWC nudes in their ports too, but it's a trend I have really noticed looking through hundreds of ports, and I certainly wasn't looking for it!

yeah I hate those ghetto nude pictures myself. That's actually one of the reasons I started shooting. Was tired of seeing women of color always portrayed as total hos shot with a P&S with the room lamp.

Vibe N Vision wrote:
Okay...off topic I know but I am just gonna vent it...what's with the models (of any race) that write on their profile, "NO NUDITY DON'T ASK!"  Then you look at their portfolio and half of their images are either nude or implied, huh????

It's anti-GWC spray. They'll get nude with who they're comfortable with and they'll ask you.