Garry k wrote:
Keeping in mind that in these days and times - most Supermodels are discovered in their mid teens ( Ie Gemma Ward  , Karolina Kurkova etc )

One of my stylest friends  had an interesting experience /moral dilemna the other day at a large ( multi model ) Fashion shoot she was coordinating .....

One the models particiapting in the shoot was a relatively new /but stunningly beautiful and tall 15 year old .... A model who - in the  stylest views has  great potential based on her look ....( shs is already signed with a mid sized local agency )

However it soon became apparant to every one involved that girls emotional maturity did not  match her physical maturity ...and the whole photo shoot went to her head very quickly ...She started flashing the photog  showing off her recent nipple piercings , she told the gay hairstylest  that she was going to convert him to hetrosexuality . and when posed with one of the  other female models - the 15 yrs started carressing her arms in a very sapphic fashion  ( personally I am wondering if thsi girls modelling training consisted of watching that Gia movie )

According to my stylest friend she had to spend much of the shoot keeping the 15 yr old under control - but in the same breathe tells me that the girls photos turned out "Amazing " and there was not a bad shot of her ...

Now my stylest friend wants to cast the 15 year old in an Edgy Fashion show we are working  togehter on for later the month ... (and is recommending also that I do a creative shoot with her ) ......to which I am thinking- either - wont that just be like adding gasoline to the fire? OR what if she becomes  the next big thing .....( and wouldnt I just kick myself if I passed on her ) So a bit of a dilemna ,no ?

That is why parents are supposed to be there for people under 18...... I'm assuming they were not there? I cant imagine parents letting a 15 year old do this....

Brent Battaglia wrote:
I cant imagine parents letting a 15 year old do this....

Not only can I imagine it, I have seen it.  In fact, as I said earlier, they probably fostered the seed of this type of outburst during their rearing of the child.

John Swoger wrote:
Seems like it always comes down to the same thing: "but she is gorgeous". So why does being good looking allow for unprofessional behaviour.

Because there really aren't that many that can fit the bill.  Oh, she'll either be groomed or she'll fail, but if she really has that potential (which the overwhelming majority do not) then she'll be given some time and guidance.

Look at the ports on here or on OMP and be honest.  For Fashion, real fashion, how many models could honestly be signed by a large NY agency and work consistently?  I'm not saying they are not attractive (beautiful even) but really, a dozen?  If?  I don't know if the number is that high...

Paramour Productions wrote:
she'll either be groomed or she'll fail, but if she really has that potential (which the overwhelming majority do not) then she'll be given some time and guidance.

but i saw..

Paramour Productions wrote:
she'll either be groomed to she'll fail, but if she really has that potential (which the overwhelming majority do not) then she'll be given some time and guidance.

and flashed upon what someone once said about nascar, we dont watch the race, we watch for the accidents, maybe we like putting wack-jobs like paris hilton on pedestals because we want to see them fall

_Alina_ wrote:
Hello, I was reading all of your comments and I don't know where you finding those girls. I am 16 years old and I know a lot of teen models, and none of them would ever do something as low as that. You should have respect for your body, and for others. She reminds me of Paris Hilton: angel outside, devil inside. I feel that in a couple of years we will all be seeing this girl on a cover of playboy. What's wrong with that picture?...EVERYTHING!..Photographers you are leading her on, by taking those photos, some one needs to open her eyes and tell her that she’s totally loosing respect for herself, don't you think so? And what about her mom? Doesnt she see what her daughter is getting into?
   It's sad how if a couple of teenagers act like that, adults think we are all immature kids! It's not true, not all of us smoke, drink, pierce our nipples (or other body parts), make out in front of parents and do other crazy things.

Alina

I was so timid and respectful and sweet, I blended into the woodwork until I was 17 and you never would have heard of me until then-heck, nobody knew about me out there until I was 21!

Rossi Photography wrote:
.

*I'm praying my son does not make me a grandma at 34*

That would be terrible!!

Brent Battaglia wrote:

That is why parents are supposed to be there for people under 18...... I'm assuming they were not there? I cant imagine parents letting a 15 year old do this....

Reportedly her dad dropped her off for the shoot - and looked quite relieved in doing so ( maybe she is more trouble at home ......)

Corey Wellman wrote:
AND YET THERE ARE STILL ZERO PHOTOS UP OF THIS AMAZINGLY STUNNING WILD FIFTEEN YEAR OLD. This thread is quickly seeming to be a pointless bitching session about nothing? No photo's of this 15 yr old godess...c'mon now.

And even if I do shoot her Zero photos of her will appear on my site ... My goal of this thread  is not that she be judged on her looks or that she be identified with respect to her  immature behavior ...

My goal is simply to get some  feeddback in dealing with  ( or not dealing with ) such behavior in a 15 yr old ....and I intend to keep her name and face outa the discussion ( for her sake )

Rossi Photography wrote:
Ahh... Teenage girls. I have a 16 year old son. His girlfriends range from 15 to 18. They are outta' control! He'll bring one home and she's all over him right in front of me. I know teenagers do their 'thang'. But gawd! Not in front of me, PLEASE! They don't even care. When I was that age I woulda' never in front of my boyfriends parents. These crazy kids! Lol...

*I'm praying my son does not make me a grandma at 34*

Yeah, I got a little off topic.

This isn't true about all teens these days.

I wasn't even allowed to say 'shut up' in my house. Nor be at a guys house without the parents calling my father. No guys allowed in my room, only in the family room and kitchen. No going out on school nights....blah blah blah. Out of control teens are usually just that because that is how they are raised. Parents usually start to discipline them after it's too late.

Mind you- I rebeled like any other teen....but it only lasted a short time and i'm in much better shape than alot of my 20 year old friends.


But, back to the original post....I know you expect this girl to be very professional because of the industry she's in, but remember, she is 15...she needs to be GUIDED and taught how to act- not scolded for doing something any 15 year old would do. I would guess she is excited, shocked and floating on cloud 9 because of the success she is told she can have. I say give her a chance, if she messes up then you live and learn- but maybe she'll surprise you.

_Alina_ wrote:
ummm no don't think i'm like being mean or anything, I just think it's totally wrong, and I sill don't agree with it, but comme on if I showed my boobs to a random person...my friends would totally call me a slut...it's a teenagers point of view...your an adult and well for you the word" slut" is sleeping with people, for us it's not just that. And I didn't call HER a slut, I was hinting to you guys that she kind of acts like one.

I'm an adult and I understand what you're saying. I know when I was a teen my friends would call someone acting in such a way a slut too. Not saying it is right but as you said it is a teens point of view. I think the type of thinking from adults as far as "oh, she's just being a young crazy kid", only reinforces that type of behavior as does what the media is implanting in the minds of young people. If you expect more from young people you'll get more. Of course not from all of them but definitely from a lot more of them.

Garry k wrote:

And even if I do shoot her Zero photos of her will appear on my site ... My goal of this thread  is not that she be judged on her looks or that she be identified with respect to her  immature behavior ...

My goal is simply to get some  feeddback in dealing with  ( or not dealing with ) such behavior in a 15 yr old ....and I intend to keep her name and face outa the discussion ( for her sake )

Why? The point is until you post pictures, there is absolutely no proof that this girl exists. That you are doing nothing more than trying to get a rise from everyone here.

RGK Photography wrote:

Why? The point is until you post pictures, there is absolutely no proof that this girl exists. That you are doing nothing more than trying to get a rise from everyone here.

So who cares?

There *are* many many models who meet this description.

James Jackson wrote:

So who cares?

There *are* many many models who meet this description.

I guess I have worked with adult models. I haven't run into this.

RGK Photography wrote:

Why? The point is until you post pictures, there is absolutely no proof that this girl exists. That you are doing nothing more than trying to get a rise from everyone here.

If this sorta thing gives you a "rise "-that is pretty sad .....

James Jackson wrote:

So who cares?

There *are* many many models who meet this description.

Personally Ive only worked with a handful of 15-17 yrs old models , and none of them have acted this way

"Adult" fashion  models are a different story

Garry k wrote:

If this sorta thing gives you a "rise "-that is pretty sad .....

I think he meant an ordinary reaction, not the "gallant reaction."

Garry k wrote:
ie my stylest freind knew Evangaline Lilly 4 yrs ago when Lilly was hostessing at a local restaurant

That's it, I'm moving to Canada.

Andy

Anna H Photography wrote:
meet with the model first...then decide.

Bingo. Let her know you've heard about her behavior, that you know she is nervous and wants to make it. Lay out the requirements of the job in no uncertain terms. Ask her like an adult to agree to temper her attitude for the show. Under no circumstances should you treat her like a child.

Garry k wrote:
Keeping in mind that in these days and times - most Supermodels are discovered in their mid teens ( Ie Gemma Ward  , Karolina Kurkova etc )

One of my stylest friends  had an interesting experience /moral dilemna the other day at a large ( multi model ) Fashion shoot she was coordinating .....

One the models particiapting in the shoot was a relatively new /but stunningly beautiful and tall 15 year old .... A model who - in the  stylest views has  great potential based on her look ....( shs is already signed with a mid sized local agency )

However it soon became apparant to every one involved that girls emotional maturity did not  match her physical maturity ...and the whole photo shoot went to her head very quickly ...She started flashing the photog  showing off her recent nipple piercings , she told the gay hairstylest  that she was going to convert him to hetrosexuality . and when posed with one of the  other female models - the 15 yrs started carressing her arms in a very sapphic fashion  ( personally I am wondering if thsi girls modelling training consisted of watching that Gia movie )

According to my stylest friend she had to spend much of the shoot keeping the 15 yr old under control - but in the same breathe tells me that the girls photos turned out "Amazing " and there was not a bad shot of her ...

Now my stylest friend wants to cast the 15 year old in an Edgy Fashion show we are working  togehter on for later the month ... (and is recommending also that I do a creative shoot with her ) ......to which I am thinking- either - wont that just be like adding gasoline to the fire? OR what if she becomes  the next big thing .....( and wouldnt I just kick myself if I passed on her ) So a bit of a dilemna ,no ?

I don't think it's a dilemma. If we as photographers start judging a model based on personality it would seriously limit our abilities...and business. I have plenty of corporate clients that I don't necessarily agree with the Art or Photo Director's attitudes or approaches...but I'm just the photographer. Besides, maybe she feels that's how she is supposed to act as a model. Who is mentoring her at 15? Is a parent or guardian there with her? She's 15 so a bit of immaturity should be expected. She's obviously enjoying herself. All you can do is be professional and supportive. I'd also suggest you stop shooting when she starts flashing lol.

And if acting out means no work for a model, Naomi Campbell (and a much longer list) would have been blackballed years ago. btw...loved the Gia comment.

Garry k wrote:

And even if I do shoot her Zero photos of her will appear on my site ... My goal of this thread  is not that she be judged on her looks or that she be identified with respect to her  immature behavior ...

My goal is simply to get some  feeddback in dealing with  ( or not dealing with ) such behavior in a 15 yr old ....and I intend to keep her name and face outa the discussion ( for her sake )

Ok this I don't get. We're talking about fashion modeling. She didn't apply for the position of Ethics Professor at Yale. Are we as consumers supposed to look through fashion mags, billboards and TV ads and think, "hmm...I wonder if she's a good person?" Who cares? That would be like judging a band based on how they act backstage. I guess I'm boycotting Stone Temple Pilots because the lead singer is/was a heroin addict. No more J Lo because I heard she's a real demanding bitch during her video sessions (ok I don't listen but you get the point). This is a girl that was, though excessive, having fun. She's modeling at 15...she should be thrilled. But to say you refuse to post any of her photos because of her behavior is just a bit elitist to me. Do you post the best images? Or do you post only the images of the models you like and that act within acceptable guidelines?

Star wrote:
once again, she is still a child. This is a child working for you. Not an adult. A child. You don't "break" a child in. You don't yell at a child. You don't expect a child to be able to do everything an adult does, you just don't.

You also shouldn't "use" a child to get what you need out of her and than ignore the consquences of how that child reacts to the adult world you helped keep her in. Especially when that child has shown herself to be mentally unstable.

Hey, if you can't take advantage of the weak and the vulnerable, then who exactly CAN you take advantage of???

Sheesh...

Star wrote:
once again, she is still a child. This is a child working for you. Not an adult. A child. You don't "break" a child in. You don't yell at a child. You don't expect a child to be able to do everything an adult does, you just don't.

You also shouldn't "use" a child to get what you need out of her and than ignore the consquences of how that child reacts to the adult world you helped keep her in. Especially when that child has shown herself to be mentally unstable.

I agree with this except for the "mentally unstable" statement.  This would infer that she has some kind of mental disorder which cannot be determined by the small bit of information we have on her behavior.  I think she's a rebellious teen, plain and simple.

jade83 wrote:

I was so timid and respectful and sweet, I blended into the woodwork until I was 17 and you never would have heard of me until then-heck, nobody knew about me out there until I was 21!

I still have never heard of you?? Who the hell are you? Are you supposed to be someone we should know?

Maxwell Digital Art wrote:
And i'll tell something else, their beer sucks!  Canadian Bacon

I certainly hope that you're being sarcastic, esspecially the beer remark! as a self procliaimed beer connoisseur, I've determined that American beer is disgusting, and not really beer at all!

Anyways... As for the rules on piercings and tattoos, as soon as you hit 16 (18 in some places) you are free as you please to do what you want with your body. Otherwise, a parent must sign a waiver.

By the age of 17 I'd had my eyebrow pierced twice, my nipple twice, and had my first (and so far only) tattoo.

I love my Canada.

Anyways, I would say agree to let her do the fashion show, make sure her parent is there to keep her in line, I would bet she was probably trying to be 'mature' and 'cool' by being so open about her sexuality, some girls see that as being mature, when really they're just making a fool out of themselves. If she gets out of line feel free to put her in her place and say "Young lady, that is NOT how a model conducts herself!" That should shut her up and prevent any future problems. Oh, and if the show is in a bar, dear GOD do not let her drink!

That's another peeve, what's with you americans and your 21 age limit? Weirdos... I kid, I love the americans...

Oh, and we have hot dogs... I ate one from 711 today... It was lovely.

Gary - I just realised you were from Vancouver as well, where is this fashion show being held?

Ched wrote:

It's Canada. They have no morals or american flags, or even hot dogs there.

I think they still have freedom there...

John

ummm no don't think i'm like being mean or anything, I just think it's totally wrong, and I sill don't agree with it, but comme on if I showed my boobs to a random person...my friends would totally call me a slut...it's a teenagers point of view...your an adult and well for you the word" slut" is sleeping with people, for us it's not just that. And I didn't call HER a slut, I was hinting to you guys that she kind of acts like one.

Tony is right.

Ah, this is all a part of growing up, something that I'm still doing, and so are you, but since I'm not TOO old to not remember what being 15/16 is like, but I'm old enough to be able to instill some words.

First, don't call ANYONE a slut, or say they're acting slutty, there are some people who are open about their sexuality at a young age. Kids will be kids, and there are some things that people will do that you won't approve of, this doesn't make them a slut, a druggie, a drunk, or a bad person, it's all a part of growing up and having experiences. While this girl SHOULD NOT be doing these sort of things, with luck, she will learn and she will have her rebellious teen phase.

Personally, I never had the rebelling "I can do what I want" teen phase, I was practically married between 14-18 years, I got my piercings, I got my tattoo, I drank, I got drunk occasionally, I've tried smoking pot, and am currently at a phase where I smoke cigarettes, and I enjoy going to the bar sometimes. This all happend between the age of 16 and now. I did it all with grace, I did it all in moderation, and I had, and am still having my teenage fun, between college, modelling, and my real job. There is nothing wrong with it, and will do nothing but give you memories to look back on, and lessons to learn.

There is nothing wrong with experimenting as long as things do not go to far, kids will be kids, and the more you learn, the more you know.

Suzan Aktug wrote:
the more you know.