Vivus Denuo wrote:

I agree, the accusation itself is damning.  If there's both a complaint against a model and her defense, I don't know the real story, so I'd probably just skip the model and find one with no complaints.

I think the idea for such a site sounds better than it is.

Eric P wrote:
I like the idea, but you're going to get sued.  A lot!

Eric P wrote:
I like the idea, but you're going to get sued.  A lot!

Too many people throw the law suit out as a form of threat, you have to get a lawyer to take the case first,money up front they are not going in on spec, you have to get a judge to allow it to go forward second or third after funds, you have to be able to show damage next, and then a jury has to side with you. it's not that easy to sue someone in real life or cheap. Its not like you got hit in the ass by someone talking on the phone while driving.

Vivus Denuo wrote:
Suppose a photog gets pissed off at a model who rejected his advances, so, in a snit, he falsely posts dirt about her.  Other photogs see that she's got one comment and it's negative.  They won't shoot with her.  She then has to prove her innocence.  That's unfair.

I doubt no photographer would choose to shoot with her.*  People still sign up on "model agency" sites which charge them hundreds of dollars to host their photos, even though some of these companies have gotten many negative complaints with the BBB.  Even if the model had 10 negative reviews out of 10, s/he'd still find work.  People will continue to smoke, get obese, and bake in the sun no matter the negativity.



*The model should take his/her safety seriously.  In the least, the photographer should know that the model has taken precautions to minimally deter behavior such as this.  Some people live carelessly, so these situations are bound to happen.  Even the model who has an escort sometimes goes home alone with strangers from a bar.

Tape Her Up wrote:

Okay, let me translate your answer:  you didn't think this through, you have no answers, and you really only want people to tell you it's a great idea.

Now you're affronting me deliberately.  My post did not imply that I will be here to explain simple concepts to people who will not benefit from it.  I do not care if people think it's a great idea as I was asking for additional features, criticism, etc.  I did not ask implicitly or explicitly "Hey guys, how do you think I should invest my money, since I'll be ignoring my lawyer, business partners, and whatever agency I hire?"  A positive statement with no input is as beneficial as your opinion with no basis.
  However, I will take your offensive bait to put a logically unarmed person as yourself in place.  Here's a translation so you won't misunderstand, and yes, this benefits you:  If someone cannot think correctly, whether it be organically based or otherwise, telling them (you) the proper way to deduce things is fruitless.  Further translation: I don't think you're bright enough (or at least you're pretending) to benefit from my explanation. Even if you were, it seems it's too much work to benefit me.  You attacked and I responded in kind (pun:P).

Tape Her Up wrote:
I asked how your system would work and how it would be different from MM or OMP and your sole response has been "you're too stupid to understand".  The fact that you won't explain how it works says as much as needs to be said.

More than one person has suggested that shoot info details would be public knowledge.  Publice Knowledge--to me at least--means that any fool could go to the site and look at it.  I wanted clarification of that and you simply chose to say "you're too stupid to understand how this would work and besides, I don't think it would benefit anyone for me to explain it to you".

So you obviously don't have answers.  As to being "too stupid to understand how it would work", I've been doing this for over two years now.  I certainly understand--unlike you--that flakes are a part of the business.  I think your principal reason to open this site is because so many models flaked on you and this would be your chance to get back at them the second they joined your site.  Others of us have more productive ways of conducting ourselves--like moving on the next shoot.  A concept you seem "too stupid to understand".

You are RIGHT!  The OP is going to need a business plan, and deep pockets!  If he can't tell you how the website will differ from others, then there is a problem!

Sorry to hijack this thread, but I've come a lot farther to having a successful website.  I'm listed on this site, OMP, and MySpace.  My website is different enough from ALL website!  It has only Models profiles and if photographers want to have a profile, they can buy a Sponsorship membership.  After all the time and money I've put in it, it MUST SUCCEED! 

Patrick Walberg
http://www.InternetModelClub.com

Carlos Arturo Velarde wrote:
Why? eBay doesn't get sued over members' comments. Neither does ModelLocate.

Carlos Arturo Velarde wrote:
Why? eBay doesn't get sued over members' comments. Neither does ModelLocate.

Hey Carlos, how are you?  I've been away ... very busy launching websites! I read the San Jose Mercury business section faithfully!

Here is the real deal. On top of the expenses of hiring at least one programmer, and a webmaster (one with graphic art skills) the OP of this post is going to need to hire an attorney.  There is no doubt about it!  He mentions a sales team, well that is what I'm in the process of putting together right now.  If he thinks people will work for him for nothing, and that people will join his just because it's another photographer/model listing site ... with the only real difference being a rating system, he is dreaming!  I launched recently and know the hard facts .. it's expensive and a LOT of work! 

Carlos, I finally stepped foot in Arizona!  I had a promotions booth with models from the IMC at the Las Vegas Hot Import Nights.  On the way home to California, I took the van the wrong direction and we drove across the State line by accident!  I had no idea until we did because everything looks the same!  Grr ... and there were no exits for about 15 miles!     Well at least I know how to get there!

Patrick Walberg
http://www.InternetModelClub.com

WillSun wrote:
I'm currently in talks with a few website/database designers to work on a solution to a common internet problem: people that don't show/call. ..........................
........................................................................
.......................................................................
What I'd like are ideas for other features which photogs/models would need, want, or just like to have.

You better have a lot of capital backing you.  About 100k might get you throught the first steps.  It took me about 3 years of "thinking and talking" and then 2 more on top of that to develop the business plan and billing system.  If your website is going to be free, you are going to need a very sharp marketing and sales team.

"No shows" is not really a factor when your income is not generated from having a listing on OMP or MM.  I've been listed on OMP for 5 years and never made a dime "directly" from being listed.  Sure I've made some great contacts, but not once has a model or job come with cash in hand to pay me BECAUSE I am listed there.  Same with Model Mayhem.  But I do use these websites to work with real Internet models who make an income from their own paysites.  In other words, I shoot content for them.  That is one way to make money from Internet Models.  If you are paying a model, or the photographer .. then there is less likely a "No show" ... most "no shows" are with TFP.

The most successful websites are FUN!  Look at MySpace for example.  This website (Model Mayhem) is also a FUN website!  If you have money to invest in a wbsite, then please take a look at what I've already created.  I've gotten models from England and Canada to sign up.  I've also gotten 10's of thousands of hits from 73 Nations around the World.  My site is only one month old, and it's going to get better!

Patrick Walberg
http://www.InternetModelClub.com

Tape Her Up wrote:
More than one person has suggested that shoot info details would be public knowledge.  Publice Knowledge--to me at least--means that any fool could go to the site and look at it.  I wanted clarification of that and you simply chose to say "you're too stupid to understand how this would work and besides, I don't think it would benefit anyone for me to explain it to you".

So you obviously don't have answers.  As to being "too stupid to understand how it would work", I've been doing this for over two years now.  I certainly understand--unlike you--that flakes are a part of the business.  I think your principal reason to open this site is because so many models flaked on you and this would be your chance to get back at them the second they joined your site.  Others of us have more productive ways of conducting ourselves--like moving on the next shoot.  A concept you seem "too stupid to understand".

I'll show you exactly why I came to that conclusion.

First, who said public knowledge?  Point out a post that states that.  Then find one of my post that claims that.  Maybe another of your assumptions or invalid deductions?  I asked: "Do you believe MM's online communication is inaccessible to the owners of this website?"  It seems you do.  If you didn't think that, then this question from you

Tape Her Up wrote:
"How would the arbitrators even know a shoot was supposed to happen?"

is rhetorical at the best.  If you still can't put the two together, you're further proving my point.

Tape Her Up wrote:
I asked how your system would work and how it would be different from MM or OMP and your sole response has been "you're too stupid to understand".

I addressed your first few posts, and as each one became less inquisitive and more insulting, I realized you were here for one purpose.  As far as my "sole response" I've answered your other posts.  Just look at the first paragraph of this post to see how I addressed one of your other questions.  Look to the original post to see how it would be different from MM or OMP.  Why re-type when it's there?

Tape Her Up wrote:
And supposing I set up a shoot with a model not on your site, but here or on OMP?  And that model flakes?  Where's the ability to warn others off then?

What?  This proves the point again.  This is an absurd question.  An analogy: If I say, Mr Tape Her Up, you need gas to run your car; you would respond with "But what if I decide to run my car without gas, then what?"  More of your posts just do you harm.

Tape Her Up wrote:
I wanted clarification of that and you simply chose to say "you're too stupid to understand how this would work and besides, I don't think it would benefit anyone for me to explain it to you"

This is not my quote.  It won't benefit *you or me* to explain it.  No one, other than you, has made the conclusion that the site would have shoot information for every single person on the net to see.  Since that doesn't tell you anything, well, it's proving the point.  I'm not spending time clarifying simple stuff to the only one who can't get it.
BTW, I don't call people stupid.  I did state you weren't bright enough to understand, and that's unfortunate.  But just because someone can't understand algebra, doesn't mean I'd call him/her "too stupid."  This really isn't algebra, yet you've shown nothing but bad emotion and miscomprehension.

Tape Her Up wrote:
I think your principal reason to open this site is because so many models flaked on you and this would be your chance to get back at them the second they joined your site.  Others of us have more productive ways of conducting ourselves--like moving on the next shoot.  A concept you seem "too stupid to understand".

If I were to follow your line of thought, the founders of the BBB wanted to "get back" at all businesses the moment they joined.  If you've been doing this for 2 years, you should know that emotion has little place within business.  I wouldn't care if every single flake I've worked with joined a site that I owned.  Why am I even pointing out something so obvious?

_Cinnamon_ wrote:
You say that the site will only track shoots with registered members. .

That is the issue right there!  Getting people to "register" and being able to keep track of them.

WillSun wrote:
*The model should take his/her safety seriously.  In the least, the photographer should know that the model has taken precautions to minimally deter behavior such as this.  Some people live carelessly, so these situations are bound to happen.  Even the model who has an escort sometimes goes home alone with strangers from a bar.

You are going to need to provide a secure website.  That means adding a hardware firewall to your hosting.  That also means you need a way to verify all who register, because if you don't ... people will register who are fakes, GWC's, spammers, hackers, or worse!  That is why I built a billing network and charge.

Take a look at my website! http://www.InternetModelClub.com
I've already thought of all that stuff ...

Patrick Walberg wrote:

You better have a lot of capital backing you.  About 100k might get you throught the first steps.  It took me about 3 years of "thinking and talking" and then 2 more on top of that to develop the business plan and billing system.  If your website is going to be free, you are going to need a very sharp marketing and sales team.

"No shows" is not really a factor when your income is not generated from having a listing on OMP or MM.  I've been listed on OMP for 5 years and never made a dime "directly" from being listed.  Sure I've made some great contacts, but not once has a model or job come with cash in hand to pay me BECAUSE I am listed there.  Same with Model Mayhem.  But I do use these websites to work with real Internet models who make an income from their own paysites.  In other words, I shoot content for them.  That is one way to make money from Internet Models.  If you are paying a model, or the photographer .. then there is less likely a "No show" ... most "no shows" are with TFP.

The most successful websites are FUN!  Look at MySpace for example.  This website (Model Mayhem) is also a FUN website!  If you have money to invest in a wbsite, then please take a look at what I've already created.  I've gotten models from England and Canada to sign up.  I've also gotten 10's of thousands of hits from 73 Nations around the World.  My site is only one month old, and it's going to get better!

Patrick Walberg
http://www.InternetModelClub.com

This isn't only directed to you, Patrick, but your post seems good enough to reiterate a prior statement.  (I do appreciate your informative statements, however.)  I originally was asking about features.  I have not and will not come to modelmayhem for investment advice.  If I start a business catering to a group and asked questions, I'd want their input about what could make them customers, not their advice about start-up capital or server resources.  Those are questions I'd discuss with a business consultant or IT specialist.  I know many are just trying to be helpful, but the business side of my homework won't be done on an online forum.

Hadyn Lassiter wrote:
Well if the project is handled inhouse on the site then all contact and info given and recieved will be there for any to see. So if this new model or photographer says so and so didn't explain whatever then all we need do is read what was written like each of them should have done. I think it's a great idea, find your model whereever and once contact is made bring the project to the site being discussed here.
works for me.

Since the OP asked, here it is.  One of the examples I know mentioned.  The italics are my own.

The OP still has not explained how this would work.  The OP chooses not to, which again seems to me to mean that they have not thought it through.  But there again, look at the title of the thread:  Website To End All No-Shows!

Why do I question what the purpose of his website is?  Well, that would seem obvious.

Am I angry?  No.  I think it's a ridiculous idea.  That doesn't mean I'm angry.  Calling me names is simply a deflectionary tactic.

Come on, now.  If it's such a simple concept, then the OP should be able to explain it to one and all.  But the OP simply won't--or more likely can't.  I'm also not the first person he's gotten snotty with on this thread.  While we're at it, let's have the answers to some other people's questions:  like Cinnamon's question as to why would a model even join his site if she ran the risk of her reputation tarnished?

I go back to the simple hypothesis that the reason the OP wants to open his site is to extract revenge on all those who would dare to flake on him.  Great way of doing business, I'll tell ya that.

Patrick Walberg wrote:
The most successful websites are FUN!  Look at MySpace for example.  This website (Model Mayhem) is also a FUN website

Defending myself from jerks...not my idea of fun.

Thomas B wrote:
Call me a jerk but you sound like the same kind of person who wants to sue a fast food place for making coffee too hot

People who know the details of that lawsuit, don't say such stupid things. 

I normally wouldn't say something like that, even if I think it is deserved, but it's statements like this that CREATE injustice in our system.  The McDonald's award was equivalent to two-days of coffee sales.  The jury awarded it because one of the McDonald's executives testified that, yes, over 700 people had been injured by the coffee and, yes, it was hot enough to cause third degree burns in 2-6 seconds, and yes, it didn't really need to be that hot.  But, he said, making it that hot makes it smell better and so more people buy coffee and it was cheaper to pay for the surgeries for the people who got hurt than it was to lower the temperature. 

Here:  Buy yourself a clue.

After the verdict -- the award was significantly reduced even though the judge said McDonald's was reckless, callous and willful -- McDonald's finally reduced the temperature of the coffee in some of their stores to safer levels. 

Stella, btw, had to have 8 days of hospitalization, skin grafts and debridement treatments and will never be fully recovered. 

People get sued sometimes because they deserve to be sued, because people sometimes hurt other people when it is in their own interests or when, as with McDonald's, they determine that the pain caused to other people generates more of a profit than making sure they don't cause pain to other people. 

I don't know that I disagree with an eBay-type rating system.  Sounds like it could be a good idea.  On the other hand, sometimes eBay deserved to be sued, because people abused the system and eBay didn't have proper safeguards. 

Even here on MM, I had someone insult me in an email just because, in his opinion, I took too long to decide if I wanted to buy his equipment (because I couldn't find adaptors for it and wasn't wanting to buy without finding the adaptors).  People do silly things sometimes.  And, in a system where doing silly things can hurt other people financially, they don't always stop to think and don't always care. 

So even though I like the idea of such a system (because I know I'll probably get more positive ratings in a system like that than bad ratings and I figure that will help me get more work), I can see that it is potentially very problematic. 

-- rick

WillSun wrote:
This isn't only directed to you, Patrick, but your post seems good enough to reiterate a prior statement.  (I do appreciate your informative statements, however.)  I originally was asking about features.  I have not and will not come to modelmayhem for investment advice.  If I start a business catering to a group and asked questions, I'd want their input about what could make them customers, not their advice about start-up capital or server resources.  Those are questions I'd discuss with a business consultant or IT specialist.  I know many are just trying to be helpful, but the business side of my homework won't be done on an online forum.

Well I mentioned some features ... a forum and chatroom would seem mandatory.  Also storage of video clips .. these are the features you should look into if you are going to draw a membership.

It is impossible to "end" all no shows .. but you know that, right? 

Mark Sebastian wrote:
I think this is a great idea as long as both model and photographer must be registered members (ie. you can't review someone that hasn't setup an appointment via your website).

It would also help legitimize myself as a photographer because, now, I can't screw up without consequences

One thing I know about new ideas such as this one, is that most people will react negetively and will be quick to point out potentional pitfalls. But if you build it, they will come!

Lead on

Exactly! And I've already built it!  So ... when are they going to start coming?  LOL 

_Cinnamon_ wrote:
Defending myself from jerks...not my idea of fun.

Cinnamon, I feel your pain.  After seeing how scary MySpace is with all the fakes, spammers and hackers ... I started a website for models.  That is why before any "jerks" can bother you on http://www.InternetModelClub.com they better think twice because they paid to be a member.  You are welcome to join free though.  I'll send you the 411 on how.

Example ... an Internet Model who is listed on this MM site and also on MySpace now at http://www.myspace.com/nikkichristian had her account with 56,000 "friends" hacked and deleted just before the launch of her paysite.  She had to start all over on MySpace!

I plan on helping models promote themselves and their websites.  Accounts cannot be easily deleted by hackers on my network.  There are many other security measures that I have implimented that help keep the IMC secure.

UnSeenYou wrote:
I've come across a LOT of models who talk stuff, but will not even meet for coffee to discuss the upcoming shoot and make arrangements to discuss specifics.  I feel that if a model is too busy to talk over coffee and to review my work, then she is not professional PERIOD.  This is for her peace-of-mind and safety.

Wow...

I don't remember when I was an actual paid photographer that I ever had a meeting with anyone before a shoot to discuss it with them.  And I kind of doubt that real pros meet the models for coffee to discuss the shoot.  I'll bet they do it at the shoot. 

Maybe that's not what happens and maybe a shoot would go better if you meet a model for coffee before you do a shoot.  Certainly, I like discussing ideas with models.  So I could see where having coffee might help and it would also give me a chance to see a new model and start thinking about what shots will work for her and what won't.  I've so far only done that via email and looking at portfolios, though. 

Hmmm...

So Shoot Me! wrote:
Wow...

I don't remember when I was an actual paid photographer that I ever had a meeting with anyone before a shoot to discuss it with them.  And I kind of doubt that real pros meet the models for coffee to discuss the shoot.  I'll bet they do it at the shoot. 

Maybe that's not what happens and maybe a shoot would go better if you meet a model for coffee before you do a shoot.  Certainly, I like discussing ideas with models.  So I could see where having coffee might help and it would also give me a chance to see a new model and start thinking about what shots will work for her and what won't.  I've so far only done that via email and looking at portfolios, though. 

Hmmm...

No, it is common place.  I meet with models, other photographers, webmasters, graphic artists, stylists, etc over coffee all the time!  It is much better for the planning of a photo shoot or an event.  When I set up a booth at events with my models, it's required that we have a meeting to discuss things.  Otherwise, how are you going to be organized?

So Shoot Me! wrote:

Wow...

I don't remember when I was an actual paid photographer that I ever had a meeting with anyone before a shoot to discuss it with them.  And I kind of doubt that real pros meet the models for coffee to discuss the shoot.  I'll bet they do it at the shoot. 

Maybe that's not what happens and maybe a shoot would go better if you meet a model for coffee before you do a shoot.  Certainly, I like discussing ideas with models.  So I could see where having coffee might help and it would also give me a chance to see a new model and start thinking about what shots will work for her and what won't.  I've so far only done that via email and looking at portfolios, though. 

Hmmm...

Different rules for different styles of photography. If someone wants me to shoot them and has a clear view of what they want, then I dont see a reason to meet up with them. But if i'm working out a highly conceptual idea, than it's important to meet up in order to make sure I'm picking the right person for the right job, set expectations and get a little creative input - nothin wrong with that

Tape Her Up wrote:

Since the OP asked, here it is.  One of the examples I know mentioned.  The italics are my own.

The OP still has not explained how this would work.  The OP chooses not to, which again seems to me to mean that they have not thought it through.  But there again, look at the title of the thread:  Website To End All No-Shows!

Why do I question what the purpose of his website is?  Well, that would seem obvious.

Am I angry?  No.  I think it's a ridiculous idea.  That doesn't mean I'm angry.  Calling me names is simply a deflectionary tactic.

Come on, now.  If it's such a simple concept, then the OP should be able to explain it to one and all.  But the OP simply won't--or more likely can't.  I'm also not the first person he's gotten snotty with on this thread.  While we're at it, let's have the answers to some other people's questions:  like Cinnamon's question as to why would a model even join his site if she ran the risk of her reputation tarnished?

I go back to the simple hypothesis that the reason the OP wants to open his site is to extract revenge on all those who would dare to flake on him.  Great way of doing business, I'll tell ya that.

I believe he was asking for input and features not a critique of the idea to start with.
I didnt call you any names so I am lost there.
I wouldn't give out details on a new project to anyone either and as he is not asking you for money I don't see the problem.
The OP asked for input as to features not your opinion on the idea or your acceptance of it.
If you feel it's a bad idea don't get involved with it.
You made your point so long ago here even I forgot what it was you wrote.
I do not believe this has anything at all to do with revenge on models or photographers , as a matter of fact it seems to me he is trying to find ways to prevent this from happening.
You have your view you made it so I dont see any need for you to keep on about something no one asked you for.
Dont like the idea dont use it simple enough right?

Patrick Walberg wrote:

Exactly! And I've already built it!  So ... when are they going to start coming?  LOL 

Pat I went to your site, I really don't want you to be pissed off at me as I am not a website builder of any kind. Your site seemed unattractive to me, it just has a sort of grey drab feeling. Perhaps I am not wording this correct and lord knows I am not the authority on Graphics but perhaps if it had more of a clean gallery appearance. Please don't take this as an insult to your hard work there or your very creative idea. I am now in a locked battle with my web builder as to the appearance of my new site. They want it to be very ,ummm Walmart looking and I want it to look like a soho art gallery so meeting in the middle is tough.
Again please don't take this a negative insults to you or the site its just the feeling I had upon reaching it.
peace

WillSun wrote:
If the site doesn't work, then it fails and we lose money.  No big deal.  The original post asks about what features, etc would be needed.  I'm not here to solicit investment advice.

Well if you are looking for features I would like to suggest that you don't just rate the model or photographer as to whether they flake or not but also if they were "as advertised".  In other words is the 5'10" model really that tall or is she closer to 5'2".

Was the shoot as expected, ie. the model was expecting to shoot glamour but when she got to the shoot the photographer wanted porn.

Were the terms of the agreement reached, did the model receive the photos/CD in time with no hidden charges.

Were escorts a help or hindrance, maybe someone might not want to shoot with a model who's escort is a rather suspicious character.

Was the model / photographer easy to communicate with at and before the shoot, did they preform in a professional manner, did the model know how to pose or would a dead fish take directions better.

Did the photographer's post production skills adequate and if not did he/she give you the option of using a mutually agreeable third party retouching service.

Did the model provide suitable clothes/shoes if agreed upon, did the photographer provide a MUA, again if agreed upon.

Were the shooting facilities adequate, not just the studio or location adequate but were provisions made for changing areas, transportation, snacks etc... the little niceties that make a shoot pleasant.

The list could go on forever.

Jay Bowman wrote:
:::sigh:::


What is it with this incessant, sick need to have the power to out someone?  This very concept is what will make this backfire.  Out of all the shoots I've done, I've had 1 no-show.  And you couldn't pay me to "out" the model.  Miscommunications happen, things come up, etc.  And while Suzie Q Model and Big John Photographer might set up a shoot together, if it doesn't happen and people begin badmouthing each other who do you believe?  With every story there are two sides... whose do you trust?  A rating isn't going to help.

People seem to be just itching to shove someone out in front of a bus.  Like I said this site will either attract the very people who'd never flake anyway or it'll turn into one huge shouting match.  And you better believe that the moment someone feels like they've been commented on unjustly, they'll come after site administration.  The premise, no matter how well-intentioned is problematic.  Like I said, if it was practical it would have been instituted already at some of the sites that presently have the membership begging for the feature.  Don't you think MM or OMP or whoever else would've set it up already if it was practical?


Again, the square wheel didn't catch on for a reason...

Jay, I really like what you had to say.   To start another model/photographer profile listing website with a ratings system as the primary difference is not a good idea to me.  There are too many profile sites some what like that already.  The ratings thing is dangerous, and could back fire ... for one thing, I've only had one model totally flake on me.  There was no need to "out" her because karma paid her back big time!  I kept my mouth shut because I knew she canceled the sceduled shoot we had so that she could do a paid gig.  If she had been honest about it, maybe things would have gone better for her. Oh, yea, I was angry and disappointed.  But instead of saying a word to anyone, I sat back and watched as "karma" made me a true beleiver!

So is there really a need for a website such as the OP is thinking of building?  I cannot say for sure.  There are too many varibles that can effect the relationships of photogrpahers and models.  It changes many times as often as day to day!  One model or photographer can have a completely different experience then the next one is far different from the first.  I personally have shot with models that some photographers had "warned" me about ... and found it not to effect me.  In some cases, it wasn't even true!  This whole ratings thing needs to be well thought out before proceeding.

WillSun wrote:
(The topic is a bit dramatic, but that's by design.)
I'm currently in talks with a few website/database designers to work on a solution to a common internet problem: people that don't show/call. This website will allow people to confirm a date and time. When this date/time schedule has passed, the photographer is allowed to leave a review on the model. The model can post a review as well, just like ebay.
Many people cannot find an appropriate place to let others know, "You're wasting your time if you decide to work with him/her." You can't do it within a forum or it comes off as bashing. However, if I were to enter a transaction with someone on another website, and the person delivered a bad product, didn't complete the project, or was a no-show/no-call, I'd like to be able to leave a review. One of the reasons so many independent models find it easy to flake is because there are no foreseeable consequences to their future actions.  If ebay had no way to review a seller, who would buy anything from them?
However, if someone places their bio for all to see, with feedback being left on them, they'd be less likely to flake if they want future work. The same goes for independent models who are serious about their work. Right now, they really have no way of differentiating themselves from those who flake. Anyone can post "I've worked with photographer# " yet have many more photographers on which they've flaked.
If a model has confirmed 10 dates, yet shown for none, and charges the same as the model who has shown for all of her dates, who would get the work?
Photogs would also have a way to separate themselves from unprofessional people with cams.
What I'd like are ideas for other features which photogs/models would need, want, or just like to have.

Let's take a situation which happened to me a couple of years ago. I had a very good shoot with a very attractive young lady. She was happy with  the results, including the final CD and prints. But some time later I learned I learned the model was smearing my name with emails sent to various models and others. Confronting her, I asked her what was going on. She was obviously surprised and upset, with no idea what I was talking about. Turns out her live in jealous boyfriend was using her email to "get even" with me. I ended up with an attorney and a nice out of court settlement. Now had he made those post in her name about me on your site, my attorney would absolutely have been in contact with you.

I really hope you have discussed this with an attorney, you may well need him!

So Shoot Me! wrote:
Patrick and Mark make good points. I've never had that need arise yet.  And, as I said, I could see how it might be a good idea.  I am surprised -- and this probably shows my own lack of experience (my experience is minimal compared to many of you -- that it happens that often. 

I would have been afraid to suggest that a model meet me for coffee beforehand, because I would have thought it unprofessional when I could just explain my ideas and/or discuss them with her right before the shoot.  And, of course, like I said, I'm already discussing ideas via email.

Maybe I'll try that (meeting for coffee to discuss and bounce ideas) sometime.  It would sure be faster than going back-and-forth via email!

And, to the OP (so that I'm still on-topic, too!) -- my comments above are not meant to be negative about your business plan.  I use eBay and I do depend on the rating system for some of my decisions.  I read negative feedback and explanations left by sellers to the negative feedback before I make decisions.  I can imagine it's a good idea.  People who don't think so, don't have to join the site.  People who join the site will get the benefit. 

I think you'll probably get sued -- eBay does -- but that's your problem and I'm sure you're factoring that consideration into your business model. 

I don't know if this counts as a "feature" or not, but I will say that while I might join such a site, I would not be willing to pay very much for it.  I figure since I know I'm a good guy and wouldn't stand anyone up or hurt a model, a site like that should help me, as I rack up positive comments. 

I also like the idea of being able to avoid no-shows, just like I enjoy being able to avoid getting cheated on eBay.  But I'm just getting (re)started and I don't have a lot of money I'm willing to spend on photography-oriented stuff. 

Maybe the eBay model really is the thing to look at:  charge a very small fee for successful shoots set up through the site?  And/or have people understand that advertising (like MM does with Google ads or like some do with full-on graphic banners and ads) is necessary to help keep site costs down.  And/or offer tiers of service -- but ratings being available for all tiers -- and people can move up to more features as they desire and/or can afford it.

The negatives mentioned by people here are real, but I didn't hear you asking us if we wanted to invest our money.  And if you invest your money and it doesn't work, well, as you've already pointed out, that's your problem.

Go for it. 

-- rick

Hey Rick, I think the reason I've had so few "no shows" is because I try to meet with people first.  I see that you are also a wedding photographer?  So am I.  Of course I meet with potential wedding couples at places like coffee shops because I don't have a studio "business location" at this time.  There is no way a couple should hire a photographer without first meeting and seeing his/her work.  The Internet and phone are very important tools to me, but nothing is quite like meeting in person!

Studying E-bay is a good idea.  I did that a couple years ago before building my website's billing system.  There is a major reason why E-bay bought Paypal, and that is obvious enough that I don't need to go into detail. 

A couple years ago, I was thinking of doing third party billing ... which is what Paypal really is.  I spent a lot of money on my credit card billing network only to find that after the Paypal/E-bay deal, Visa/MC made moves both legally and within their corp. to make it much more difficult for another Paypal/E-bay merger.  These were deals worth millions between multi billion dollar companies!  It's not going to happen for awhile! 

Now I have learned about the differences between third party billing companies and merchant account providers.  It is much better to avoid having to use third party companies like Paypal, CCbill, iBill, or Verotel.  It is much better instead to seek a merchant account provider who can put you directly with a bank.  You can even get a merchant account for nude sites, and paysites if you look hard enough.  I'm a registered reseller of merchant accounts and I can help any of you.   What I cannot do is to provide the billing directly for you.  That is called factoring ...

You are in Fresno, and we should meet!  There are some models I need to work with in your area.    Also I like helping others, so if you wish to learn more about how all this website stuff works, we can talk!

Patrick Walberg
http://www.InternetModelClub.com
(408) 218-2535

Digiography wrote:

Well if you are looking for features I would like to suggest that you don't just rate the model or photographer as to whether they flake or not but also if they were "as advertised".  In other words is the 5'10" model really that tall or is she closer to 5'2".

Was the shoot as expected, ie. the model was expecting to shoot glamour but when she got to the shoot the photographer wanted porn.

Were the terms of the agreement reached, did the model receive the photos/CD in time with no hidden charges.

Were escorts a help or hindrance, maybe someone might not want to shoot with a model who's escort is a rather suspicious character.

Was the model / photographer easy to communicate with at and before the shoot, did they preform in a professional manner, did the model know how to pose or would a dead fish take directions better.

Did the photographer's post production skills adequate and if not did he/she give you the option of using a mutually agreeable third party retouching service.

Did the model provide suitable clothes/shoes if agreed upon, did the photographer provide a MUA, again if agreed upon.

Were the shooting facilities adequate, not just the studio or location adequate but were provisions made for changing areas, transportation, snacks etc... the little niceties that make a shoot pleasant.

The list could go on forever.

Very good points made here. I think this is the type of reply that was being sought after here. Everyone has made their feelings known now so lets get to the ideas to make it possiably work if anyone has any beside these that Digio made. Mine would be open emails for any dispute at all. It doesnt have to be set up to out someone, our schools are not that way. You get a report card based upon your efforts for the most part.
I have no problem with the idea. The one model I had an issue with and I did lose my temper until everyone told me "this" is the internet this is "how it is". Had I posted the entire email conversation people would have seen that I was telling the facts as they were. I did make a very bad error in that case and I publicly apoligized to all concerned.
Time place what was needed etc no errors or miscommunication on my part. Also that i was very polite and pro throughout the fiasco until the no show no call. MUA paid, stylist paid, no model or call.

Lora wrote:
He went as far as revealing things about my personal life.

Sorry that you went through that.    I once made the mistake of giving a photographer TMI (too much information) about myself, and that blew up in my face the moment the asshole got mad at me for something (some dumb shit).  I won't be making that mistake again.

Hadyn Lassiter wrote:

I believe he was asking for input and features not a critique of the idea to start with.
I didnt call you any names so I am lost there.
I wouldn't give out details on a new project to anyone either and as he is not asking you for money I don't see the problem.
The OP asked for input as to features not your opinion on the idea or your acceptance of it.
If you feel it's a bad idea don't get involved with it.
You made your point so long ago here even I forgot what it was you wrote.
I do not believe this has anything at all to do with revenge on models or photographers , as a matter of fact it seems to me he is trying to find ways to prevent this from happening.
You have your view you made it so I dont see any need for you to keep on about something no one asked you for.
Dont like the idea dont use it simple enough right?

In order to discuss "features" we do need to know something about the purpose of the website.  I don't think that is unreasonable at all.