Anjel Britt wrote:
Hmm
yoga might call [HUMAN GARBAGE] an oxymoron

that is to say, it takes work to get to incarate as a human and is a sacred chance to develop, grow and better ones karma (not one taken by many but a opportinity all the same).

The 'Namaste' greeting acknowledges the light inherrent somewhere inside any human Soul.

As I said before , what you accuse others of, try on yourself for size.

I'm not sure some of our less enlighten readers get this.  There are several things
to trouble me with these continued battles over the escort issue and people
who are rude.  First because I trust myself I tend to trust others.  I'm not
naive but I try and believe that people have the best intentions and for those
that don't, how sad.  We should be concerned for our safety but if you feel the
need to have constant protection and friends near then maybe working with
photographers you meet on-line isn't the best thing to do.  If someone asks
you to do something you don't want to do or touches you.  Slap them and leave.
If the slap isn't something you are familiar with.  Place your hand at your side
and swing, backhand or forehand.  If you are afraid to slap then just leave but
please, please don't come to MM with another tale of woe about how some
pervert tricked you into those Hustler poses or felt you up and you were too
afraid to stop him or leave.  Stand up for yourself!  If someone is rude to you.
Hang the phone up or delete the email.  There is also this soft air of  paternalism.
Where photographers many of whom are older and male want to 'protect'
models.  Many of whom are young and female.  Thats nice but often unneeded.
These are adults.  They pay bills.  They vote.  They have sex and they can and
should use both common sense and good judgment.

Peter Dattolo wrote:
....MODEL - no self defense training - six guys with knives surrounding her/him - begging for thier life - try bartering with sexual activities - crying - throwing money and credit cards in front of them - fainting.......then those six guys take all this anyways and leave.

Quite the scenario!!!  And the model having an escort will help here how...?

Now your "six guys with knives" get a two for one special.

Gheesh.  The fantasy is getting out of hand and the ability of an escort to actually inhibit someone who is intent on accomplishing something nefarious is probably next to zip.

Curt Burgess wrote:

This makes next to no sense.

Curt, be causios, sometimes models bring the escort just to help them hold you while doing X with you.  Those models I'll tell ya...

Gwinevere wrote:
i've read all the posts... and i agree with a few things... first... ALWAYS bring an escort, (not hubby/boyfriend) with you to a first shoot... it's just plain safety rules.... second, be open to ANYTHING... you never know till you try it(nudes or arty photos), and lastly, a pre shoot meeting is good... but when you have a busy photographer... it's sometimes  not able to happen... in that case go, but if you start getting weird vibes from the art work, photographer, or studio... be prepared to LEAVE.  Most photographers will INSIST that you sign a model release form if there are nude pictures involved...it isn't something to be worried about! it's protection for both parties, and if an escort is there, then no one can lie about what happened...

just for everyone's info... I myself plan on having an escort with me at ALL nude shoots, for the saftey of everyone!

~Gwenivere~

Yeah, well you and your escort would be driving right back home with no photos if it were my studio.

Models certainly can have all the escorts they want. They just wont be shooting with me.

I have an MUA and a Studio..NOT apartment, not little room in the back of my houose..A STUDIO...I always wonder how many other apoinments you would take an escort on?

Do models really need baysittiers..? Bad things happen in EVERY part of life..

YOu can get mugged, raped, beaten..ANYPLACE...so I guess you need an escort for everything...Just wondering..

I understand when it's a newbie working from home or something.But in a professional studio? PLease..If you are getting a TFP in a Pro Studio..you should be happy to have the opportunity. IMNSHO

As to the OP...

yeah he was a bit rude and did apologize.We all have bad days, And I would hate to be remembered for that one bad day I had a month ago. :-)

I see you made some changes to your profile and kudos for the open mind and listening to your peers.

Kudos to the photgrapher for apologizing..

Everybody...do your thing and be happy..

:-)

Madcitychel wrote:
Curt, be causios, sometimes models bring the escort just to help them hold you while doing X with you.  Those models I'll tell ya...

You actually make a good point.  (and depending on what X is, my feelings would vary ).

The model wants to bring the escort because the model doesn't "know" the photographer.  Well, the photographer doesn't know the model or the escort.  I would feel the need to have someone there just to pay attention to the escort. I  think it's unlikely I'd need to worry about personal safety but I would worry about theft - again I don't know either of these people.

Only a couple times has a model brought an escort to a shoot with me. Once was a young teen and her Mom came (of course). The other time was a hotel shoot and the model brought her friend whom I ended up shooting as well (a most delightful shoot). It just rarely comes up in my experience, which may or may not be representative. Who knows what the actual data is on models bringing or asking about escorts. I have a feeling that this whole "escort" issue is not as big a deal as postings here would lead us to believe - with all this fantasy about "6 guys with knives" and such stuff.

Brian Stewart Photog wrote:
ATTENTION MODELS: Any damn photographer that says he won't shoot you if you bring an escort should be told to go to hell.

Yeah!  Go to hell! Damn photographers!  Go to hell, I tell ya!!!

Brian Stewart Photog wrote:
... For the rest, get over it or find a new job.

That's right!! The rest of you damn photographers --- GO FIND A NEW JOB!!!

Brian Stewart Photog wrote:
This is 2006, anything can happen..

Yeah!!! No shit!! That's right!!! Anything, anything at all can happen!!!  Oh my god, it's 2006 too. Christ!! Anything could happen!!  OH NO!!!  What am I going to do now???  OMG!!!

Brian Stewart Photog wrote:
And photographers, if a model brings an escort and you have problems, just don't shoot with that person anymore

Umm... well, this seems a little awkward....

Brian Stewart Photog wrote:
...it's that simple.

Right!! It's THAT simple!  All black and white you damn photographers. Go to hell!! Get a new job!!

OMG!!! There's six guys with knives chasing me!!! I'm outta here!

Bob Randall Photography wrote:
Add this:

Willing to do anything for food, screw my husband, bring it on!



I think you will get more attention my way. When you get to the studio just tell them you were joking, it's what I do all the time.

Bob you are being sooo very bad!

Brian Stewart Photog wrote:
ATTENTION MODELS: Any damn photographer that says he won't shoot you if you bring an escort should be told to go to hell. Anyone who says they are professional and is all about the photos should have NO problem with an escort. For the rest, get over it or find a new job. This is 2006, anything can happen, it's better for models to be cautious. And photographers, if a model brings an escort and you have problems, just don't shoot with that person anymore, it's that simple.

Tell you what Brian,

How about you send me a check for all the gear that has walked out of my studio, when I was shooting a model.

Not Professional?

Hmmmm, my peers would certainly argue that point, as would my work. So, you lost me there. Everybody has the right to run their business the way they choose. I find the whole escort issue funny.Seems I only deal with it with internet models. I have never had a gig where a model was receiving a check refuse to work because HE OR SHE could not bring an escort.

Whos professional? Hmmmmmmmmmmmm

Brian Stewart Photog wrote:
Joke away, it's all real funny, unless you are a model that has been asaulted by a photographer. And don't even try to tell me that doesn't happen.

Neva!
(see my correspond.)
Damn photogropher from hell:
How are you? I saw your profile on MM and thought you might be a good fit for a new project which is a series of noir inspired fine art nudes. I'm a fine art photographer and my work has is mainly published in fine art journals around the world. You can view more of my work at www.donknowwho.com If you are interested in talking about working with me let me know.Feel free to call my cell at 991* (changed for confidentiality purposes) or let me know how I can reach you.

Talk to you soon,

____________________


Madcitychel
08/18/06 9:09 AM
(Message read)  Good Morning Mike!
You are great photog-er...blah.blah, but...
I would love to work with you, however the project that you are working on doesn't really match my skills, I wouldn't want to waist your time by not cooperating during the shoot, not because I don't want to, but just simply because I can't. I have an experience in bluh..bluh..... But I am trying to be open minded and that is the reason I started my activity with this website - I am open to new ideas, just not really ready to do something like that project yet.
If you'll have any other ideas or need any other help with the different project - please let me know, I'd like to give (cooperate) during the session as much as I can to help the photographer get what he/she is looking for.


_________________________________________
Damn photogropher from hell:
08/18/06 12:41 PM
I have no idea what you are talking about with cooperating during a shoot. If you don't shoot nudes that's fine we won't be able to work together.



_________________________________________________
Madcitychel
08/18/06 3:04 PM
(Message read)  Oh NOOOOO!!!!!!
-
jk
________
In case my response was too much for you to read or understand, I'll simplify it for your convenience:
NOT INTERESTED, but thanks for the offer.

Respectfully,
Julia L*********

Brian Stewart Photog wrote:
Alot of people walk out of Wal-Mart with stolen items, I guess they should ban their customers to make sure no one steals anything.

Nothing is perfect, but I see alot of people sure think it sould be.

That's just because wallmart people are much nicer than this photogrophers. I wish they all could get a new job... in wallmart.

Brian Stewart Photog wrote:
Alot of people walk out of Wal-Mart with stolen items, I guess they should ban their customers to make sure no one steals anything.

I don't get the analogy.... nobody is saying one should ban a model (the customer to the photographer) from the photoshoot.

Seems like you're discounting the potential problems associated with an escort hanging around that the photographer doesn't know and can't keep track of all the time.

Brian Stewart Photog wrote:
Joke away, it's all real funny, unless you are a model that has been asaulted by a photographer. And don't even try to tell me that doesn't happen.

its happened to me


but i ca still laugh
and i still think the 'escourts' are overrated and can get in the way / affect the shoot
and a real pro should't need escourt except in certain circumstaces/ nude or isolated outside especially

i have had them weirdos oh yes
tried weird shit on - nasty, v horrible

grabbed,  even in stores, who cares

molested, upsetting and nerve wracking

attacked - v nasty indeed

uncomfortable  / harrassed - sometimes

i have run away also kicked the crap out of one attacker and hurt the hand of another!
(he prob didn't shoot for a few days)

i can take care of myself no better no worse than anyone else
I's be ashamed to think i need an escourt these days!!

Gwinevere wrote:
i've read all the posts... and i agree with a few things... first... ALWAYS bring an escort, (not hubby/boyfriend) with you to a first shoot... it's just plain safety rules.... second, be open to ANYTHING... you never know till you try it(nudes or arty photos), and lastly, a pre shoot meeting is good... but when you have a busy photographer... it's sometimes  not able to happen... in that case go, but if you start getting weird vibes from the art work, photographer, or studio... be prepared to LEAVE.  Most photographers will INSIST that you sign a model release form if there are nude pictures involved...it isn't something to be worried about! it's protection for both parties, and if an escort is there, then no one can lie about what happened...

just for everyone's info... I myself plan on having an escort with me at ALL nude shoots, for the saftey of everyone!

~Gwenivere~

I never work with models alone, I always have a female assistant.  Love your attitude tho 

Brian Stewart Photog wrote:
Seems to be alot of photographers that get pissed when you won't get nude. Alot of photographers don't seem to care about photography as much as they care about tittys.

hi hi hi hi hi
Should we call them tittyphers?

Brian Stewart Photog wrote:
Joke away, it's all real funny, unless you are a model that has been asaulted by a photographer. And don't even try to tell me that doesn't happen.

What about us photographers that've been assaulted by escorts?
And if we're working with female assistants who're present for the whole shoot, does the model still need to have an escort?  Or is that too unprofessional?

Brian Stewart Photog wrote:
Seems to be alot of photographers that get pissed when you won't get nude. Alot of photographers don't seem to care about photography as much as they care about tittys.

all this, the scope of the shoot, the details of the release, can reduce the possibility of people getting unhappy about expectations that weren't met.

my guess is that much of the problems that are discussed here are a result of incomplete communication.  If it's completely clear that there will be no nudes beforehand, then if it comes up in the shoot it's an obvious red flag for the model.

In talking with others, I find that many models and photographers simply do not talk about what the game plan is which can easily result in someone getting weirded out when an expectation is violated.

I think there is a lot of overgeneralization on this thread, both with respect to models and photographers.

Brian Stewart Photog wrote:
Joke away, it's all real funny, unless you are a model that has been asaulted by a photographer. And don't even try to tell me that doesn't happen.

Statistically speaking a model is much more likely to be assaulted by her boyfriend/escort than by her photographer.

I'm just sayin'.

Gwinevere wrote:
Most photographers will INSIST that you sign a model release form if there are nude pictures involved...it isn't something to be worried about! it's protection for both parties..

That is a common misconception.  All that a model release does is give the photographer the right to use your image commercially.  That's it.

timothy dolph wrote:
I like it when models bring escorts.  I use them to send them out to buy the craft services, then when they get back I send them out for pizza, then tell them that they forgot the beer.
always works.

Beer? At work?
How unprofessional of you!
shame...shame...
;-)

Brian Stewart Photog wrote:
Joke away, it's all real funny, unless you are a model that has been asaulted by a photographer. And don't even try to tell me that doesn't happen.

Shyly wrote:
Statistically speaking a model is much more likely to be assaulted by her boyfriend/escort than by her photographer.

I'm just sayin'.

Very good point. I don't have any statistics but I would hazzard a guess that the model is more likely to be in a car accident than get assulted by the photographer.  (ignoring that we're not controlling for driving ability or model's decision-making ability about photographers)

Bob Randall Photography wrote:
Add this:

Willing to do anything for food, screw my husband, bring it on!



I think you will get more attention my way. When you get to the studio just tell them you were joking, it's what I do all the time.

Well for some serious advice and comments...

unfortunately your profile is a little misleading to the original poster, but you know there's no need for photographers to be assanine and an opinionated prick either.  I see a lot of that on here, I wish people could just talk to each other without that underhanded tone or the need to self entertain by going further than just what they intended to say.

clear up your port, and hopefully we can expect clearer responses from photogs.

Brian Stewart Photog wrote:
ATTENTION MODELS: Any damn photographer that says he won't shoot you if you bring an escort should be told to go to hell. Anyone who says they are professional and is all about the photos should have NO problem with an escort. For the rest, get over it or find a new job. This is 2006, anything can happen, it's better for models to be cautious. And photographers, if a model brings an escort and you have problems, just don't shoot with that person anymore, it's that simple.

Brian its just not simple.  Some pros don't want escorts or anyone not involved
in the shoot to be there.  Its how they choose to work.  Lets say you were
shooting more then one model nude or in lingerie.  A escort unknown to both
models might make one uneasy.  Escorts also mean having to pay attention to
one more person.  A person you also don't know who as Vance noted might steal.
I'm not saying that people shouldn't be carefull but why just with photographers?
Do models take escorts to the doctors office or to see a lawyer or on a date
with a person they may have met at a club?  Which by the way is far more likely
to result in problems.  I let models bring escorts but I understand those that
don't but lets not judge those who work a different way.  By the way I've
known models who have brought several escorts.  So where does it end?

Brian Stewart Photog wrote:
Ok, I got one, statistically you probably won't be killed by a terrorist, so we should stop all this security mess because it probably won't happen to you.

And a boyfriend or escort is probably someone you know, and the photographer isn't so you might want to compare apples to apples. Being assaulted by someone you know is not the same, especially when you are talking about a good looking girl, possibly nude, working alone with a man she doesn't even know. And quit telling me that "you wouldn't bring an escort to a job interview", how many job interviews has any one of you gone on where you were alone and took your cloths off????

:-D
What do you mean? That's the only way I get hired anywhere!

Brian Stewart Photog wrote:
Ok, I got one, statistically you probably won't be killed by a terrorist, so we should stop all this security mess because it probably won't happen to you.

And a boyfriend or escort is probably someone you know, and the photographer isn't so you might want to compare apples to apples. Being assaulted by someone you know is not the same, especially when you are talking about a good looking girl, possibly nude, working alone with a man she doesn't even know. And quit telling me that "you wouldn't bring an escort to a job interview", how many job interviews has any one of you gone on where you were alone and took your cloths off????

Brian people meet and go on dates all the time without escorts.  Gasp... and
many are perfect STRANGERS.   They even sometimes have sex.  However
if some photographers choose to not allow escorts, etc. shoots then thats
a personal choice and a model has the right to work or not work with that
person.  Yes bad things happen to good people and there are some bad
photographers around but models are shooting every day without incident
without escorts.  Lets just not make those who work a way you don't to
be possible villians.

Shyly wrote:
That is a common misconception.  All that a model release does is give the photographer the right to use your image commercially.  That's it.

I also use them for age verification with nudes.  Even if you're not using the image commercially you need proof of age somewhere.

Tony Lawrence wrote:

Brian its just not simple.  Some pros don't want escorts or anyone not involved
in the shoot to be there.  Its how they choose to work.  Lets say you were
shooting more then one model nude or in lingerie.  A escort unknown to both
models might make one uneasy.  Escorts also mean having to pay attention to
one more person.  A person you also don't know who as Vance noted might steal.
I'm not saying that people shouldn't be carefull but why just with photographers?
Do models take escorts to the doctors office or to see a lawyer or on a date
with a person they may have met at a club?  Which by the way is far more likely
to result in problems.  I let models bring escorts but I understand those that
don't but lets not judge those who work a different way.  By the way I've
known models who have brought several escorts.  So where does it end?

I understand what everyone is saying, but there is one problem with comparing modeling to other jobs. I know there are alot of good photographers that are very good people, but there are also alot of scumbag people out there, especially in photography. There are too many GWC's out there and that is the problem. I know of several photographers that have assaulted models, it's more common than you would think. Having you photo taken nude is not the same as going to a lawyer.

Brian Stewart Photog wrote:
Ok, I got one, statistically you probably won't be killed by a terrorist, so we should stop all this security mess because it probably won't happen to you.

And a boyfriend or escort is probably someone you know, and the photographer isn't so you might want to compare apples to apples. Being assaulted by someone you know is not the same, especially when you are talking about a good looking girl, possibly nude, working alone with a man she doesn't even know. And quit telling me that "you wouldn't bring an escort to a job interview", how many job interviews has any one of you gone on where you were alone and took your cloths off????

Okay, apples to apples, you're more likely to be mugged, raped, beaten, and left for dead by some guy on the street than by your photographer.  It's not that hard to engage some common sense, take reasonable precautions, and live a life that's not infected with paranoia.

The hysterical gibberings that insist that photographers are this menacing crew with, was it six knives?, is a constant source of amazement to me.  It's not that I care whether models bring someone to a shoot with them.  It's the paranoid mentality to which I take exception.  Have someone drive you and be your personal assistant, by all means.  But why walk around expecting to be a victim?  That just attracts predators.

Brian Stewart Photog wrote:
Ok, I got one, statistically you probably won't be killed by a terrorist, so we should stop all this security mess because it probably won't happen to you.

And a boyfriend or escort is probably someone you know, and the photographer isn't so you might want to compare apples to apples. Being assaulted by someone you know is not the same, especially when you are talking about a good looking girl, possibly nude, working alone with a man she doesn't even know. And quit telling me that "you wouldn't bring an escort to a job interview", how many job interviews has any one of you gone on where you were alone and took your cloths off????

So being beaten raped or killed by someone you know (which's WAY more likely than it being done by a stranger) is somehow preferable??
And is the model safe if she keeps her clothes on?
What if her job interview is as a stripper?