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Models death and request for all her photos
As long as the model's release is unimpeachable, there is no basis for anyone to demand an artists's work (i.e., photographic negatives, digital images, prints, etc.) without compensation. If you want this headache to disappear, there are several ways to approach this matter. If you want to surrender the materials to the model's mother, get all of the appropriate documentation (i.e., death certificate, declaration of estate executorship, etc.), and a fully-negotiated agreement for both parties to sign. If you choose to transfer the ownership of the materials and the copyright to the executor of the model's estate, you should receive a nominal fee of $1.00. If you simply want to disposses yourself of the materials without allowing anyone any ability to use the images, you can damage or destroy them in the presence of a notary public and additional witnesses. Punching a hole in each negative exposure is one way of doing it. Cutting the strip of negatives in half is another way. Completely destroying the materials is another way. If you want to assert your rights, it probably would be best to engage the services of an attorney, ask for his or her advice on the matter. Chances are the attorney will inform you of your rights and advise you to keep your materials, respond courteously to the model's mother, and wait for any letters or summonses you might receive. Most people prefer to settle matters amicably and without getting entangled in the legal arena. Models and artists are mortal, and this won't be the only time that this situation or something similar will occur. As other models perish, you may be contacted by their heirs. When you die, models may contact your heirs. It's a good idea to evaluate what's important to you. A good way of evaluating the situation is to ask yourself questions that allow you to be objective about the answers (e.g., "If a box with negatives and prints depicting this model was accidentally destroyed [i.e., burned up in a fire, fell off a ferry boat into the harbor, whatever], would you be able to move on?") Good luck. Jun 11 06 12:18 pm Link Concept Photo wrote: We've dealt with this several times already in this thread, but it keeps on coming up. Jun 11 06 12:34 pm Link CristinaLex wrote: Well if was I... and being a journalist first... I would be pumping out, and flogging to the mags, a story [with pictures] about the untimely and tragic death of a young model. Jun 11 06 01:47 pm Link Tony Lawrence wrote: Pushover, Tony? Moi? Jun 11 06 01:53 pm Link studio36uk wrote: wow, it's a shame that you would put money first. I think the OP said the model was his friend.....Is this how you would treat a friends mother? I assume she loved her mother. Jun 11 06 03:02 pm Link ... Jun 11 06 03:04 pm Link WOW, Yet another thread full of off topic comments..GO MAYHEM! I will respond only to the OP. As photgraphers we capture moments and people in time. That is what we do and that is our legacy. We will all at one time or another capture somebody who out lives the images we capture. We become the custodians of those images. I would share those imags with the family most certainly, because as custodian I would see it as my job to make sure those memories could be shared with the loved ones. I would not give up my negatives or the rights to use the images in anyway. I would; however, use my own moral judgment as to how the images are used. And I would only use them in a way the MODEL would have liked them used. Thus, allowing her legacy to live on through her work. I dont care what typpes of pictures they are. I dont care what threats the mother made or makes. None of that has any bearing on what I do with the images past making sure the family has something to remember her by. NUFF said.... Jun 11 06 06:29 pm Link People tend to get out of line when they lose someone,and say outlandish stuff, so just keep that in mind with her comment on taking you to court. You want a copy of the death certificate? If you have no use for any of the material,then why do you want that proof? You're a photographer, not some state official so be reasonable about this. Jun 11 06 06:44 pm Link studio36uk wrote: Studio36 for sure isn't anybodies pushover. Whats intresting are all the different Jun 11 06 07:04 pm Link Don't want to sound morbid, but did you check to see if the model actaully died? a Jun 12 06 07:37 am Link DeathbyNew-Wave wrote: You would want proof because you are giving something up of value. Newsflash: Some people will lie to get what they want. Jun 12 06 08:01 am Link Tony Lawrence wrote: I couldn't agree with you more. Actually, I this what you are pointing out here is one of the reasons why the professional photography industry is in such bad shape these days. Everybody wants us to just give away everything for free, and we're supposed to be nice, not businesslike. Jun 12 06 09:18 am Link You took the right decision. Just sit on the unused images for now and do not recall the ones that are in use. You mentionned that you considered to sell the images to the mother. Don't ! because then you would create the perception that you are trying to make money out of this death; this could seriously dammage your reputation. I think you should offer a few free headshots to the mother to show you are sorry. For the rest, it seems that you explained to the mother precisely the reasons why you couldn't give her the images, and give away your copyright. Be careful though, if she tries to damage your reputation, you could look like the "bad guy" depending on how you fight back. I would not like to be in your shoes. Good luck. Gilles Comtois Jun 12 06 09:38 am Link This post is morbid. Have some respect for the model and yourself. -Bill Moderators...? Jun 12 06 06:42 pm Link I had to put my two cents in because this has happened to my family before. My brother died just after he started modeling. The photos were for his compcard and he did pay for them. However, he did not own all the rights or the negatives. The photographer did. So, my parents asked the photographer about the photos, negatives, etc. They mutually agreed to pay for the photos and negatives. Not sure how much it was though. I don't think more than a couple hundred dollars. Maybe even 3 o or 4? Anyway, it's only right that if the mother wants the photos she should pay for them. After all, they're not hers. Understand if she's upset because of the situation, but my brother was 20, a model, and he died in an automobile, motorcycle, accident. We were all sore, but business is business, and if she can't deal with that, tell her to pay for the negatives if she wants them, and then move on. Jun 12 06 06:49 pm Link That sure is a story, I wonder what happen to the girl? please keep us posted. I think the mother is tripping, she should be very proud that her daughter had the chance to do something she loved, and that thing she enjoyed was modeling. I know the daughter is very proud of her selve and it is wonder that her pictures had the chance to be out there, and actually collect a profit. If I died, I would be happy knowing that my face made it somewhere, and I still live on, and I think she may have felt the same. You even said she wanted to shoot again, the mom clearly does not understand your relationship with her. However, I would just give her the pictures, and let it be, but that does not mean you should stop putting out those pictures of her. She would be happy, and after all you took the pictures and hold rights to it. Jun 12 06 07:09 pm Link My brother was an actor/model and did a TV commercial a few weeks before he died. Granted it was weird to see him in a commercial after he had died, but he signed a contract and the reality is, we as a family had no "legal" right to change his business dealings. Same thing should be said of your situation. Mom is distraught, which is probably why she mentioned "lawsuit". But your deal was between decedent and yourself. Mom has no standing, unless there is an issue for time of use. Karma would say give the photos back, but Karma doesn't buy 300/2.8 lenses for you either. Jun 12 06 10:37 pm Link Mike Cummings wrote: I hope that if I read the next hundred posts following yours that I won't be the first one to tell you this, but it bears repeating anyway; dude, learn the law if you're going to do photography! A release has absolutely no bearing on his right to keep the photos, his ownership of any physical aspects or his ownership of the copyright. It only has bearing on the types of uses he can make of the photos. Jun 13 06 11:52 pm Link phcorcoran wrote: I think it's perfect. Jun 15 06 02:19 am Link David Baxter wrote: it really frightens me what kinda people you guys have been dealing with .. that you would do anything other than Jun 15 06 02:31 am Link The photography work is yours, period. You dont know what other family members might think. Maybe 5 years from now you might have a different family member contact you looking for images that were preserved. I would keep them. Maybe not use them (unless you feel that this i what the model would have wanted.) It sounds odd to me (like religious fanatic odd) that a parent would want all works of their child destroyed. In a way, you may be the protector of a part of her memory. Just my opinion. Henry Jun 15 06 02:46 am Link Call it what you will. I think the model is not dead, but upset that you are making money without sharing... Jun 15 06 02:48 am Link Henry Tjernlund wrote: OK where did she say that? Jun 15 06 02:51 am Link So, it's 7 months since this thread. What was the outcome? Was she dead? Did the mother get the photos? Was there a lawsuit? Is up down? We want to know! Jan 11 07 08:57 am Link Don, how'd it go? Jan 11 07 09:07 am Link ahh... what odd, terrible circumstances... i have no advice, but i feel sorry for all parties involved! Jan 11 07 09:14 am Link Patrick Walberg wrote: Bingo. Jan 11 07 09:48 am Link The mother is probably just distraught and trying to protect the image of her little girl. If you have no use for the images, as a good guy it is probably nice to just give up the images to the mother (make a small sacrifice yourself to help the mother feel better), but at the same time I don't believe you truly have any obligation (legal or ethical) to do so. It's not reasonable for a family to go and recall everything a dead loved one had done that the family wasn't 100% happy with. EDIT: Doh! I didn't realize how old the original post was. I guess my response isn't of any real concern anymore :-P Jan 11 07 10:09 am Link I don't know but it seems odd to me that only 2 weeks after the tragic and unexpected death of her daughter, her thought would be to contact a photographer to request negatives of photos. I'm almost positive that would be the last thing avenue I would be traveling. Wanting prints as a memory would be one thing...but to take a strong legal stance? This seems so odd. I wonder if 2 weeks after Marilyn Monroe's death her family was contacting photographers to give up any images they've taken. Jan 11 07 10:16 am Link I responded to this post, since I encountered a similar scenario last year when a good friend's wife passed away tragically in a car accident, killed instantly. left behind two sons and a loving husband. I knew them since they first met/dated. When he informed me, I was so shocked, I couldn't believe it, and he asked if I had still had the images I shot of her. I still had them, but couldn't find them anywhere. I felt so bad that I couldn't retrieve them, and was fully aware of his grieving. Six months later I found them, contacted him, and mailed the negs & proofs to him. I good consciousness, I would do it again in a heartbeat, the memories are worth more to him than any $$$ I could glean from them, and as a friend, I wanted him to have HER memories. He was thankful, and I feel good about it. Strat *(regarding the mother, she is prolly in so much pain & anguish on so many fronts, and while she has no legal grounds, it's probably best she have them....IF some were explicit, I would not give her those...for obvious reasons.) Jan 11 07 10:31 am Link You own the photos, the mother has no rights on them as long as you have a release. She needs to chill. Sorry, but you have to protect your intellectual property, which is what the photos are. They are your business, and you can't go caving. I know this seems harsh but it's the real world. Too bad about the model Jan 11 07 11:32 am Link The Don Mon wrote: I wouldn't do anything. As soon as you give up your rights, all your rights are fair game. She'll probably sue you no matter what you do. Jan 11 07 11:40 am Link Maybe one day I'll run into this situation....since I don't suffer fools. One day, I want to see someone embarrass the demandee in ridiculous situations like these. Jan 11 07 11:43 am Link Ed Goodwin Photography wrote: since this time i havent heard anything from her. Jan 11 07 01:52 pm Link ...try not to let your heart rule your head. In a similar circumstance I would express sympathy, offer to have prints made for the family , and ,if querried in writing legally, state that you have a signed professional model release that through your lawyer could be made available for their lawyer to peruse pursuant to a lawsuit. I would leave it at that for the time being as emotions are running rampant. Jan 11 07 02:02 pm Link WOW 9 pages and lots of advice. Lets see, a model sells a special gown, and model dies and mom calls and wants it back because model changed her mind, no wait, thats not it. A model sells a house on the beach and dies and mom calls because model regretted it and mom wants it given back with all the furniture. no wait, thats not it. A model sells a car and dies and mom calls because model regretted it and mom calls and wants it given back no wait , thats not it. A model, who gets started into modelling by the OP among others, has a mom who now calls and wants everything back. Interestingly the model may or may not also be dead. And either way, the model is causing mom great grief. I'm pretty tenderhearted, but I turn to granite when threatened and become the worst enemy anyone could have. Its just not polite to threaten. If you are polite and nice, then I could be your friend, and I've been known to give and give and give and give and ...well I'm a giving sort of guy. In this case, I'd have expressed my sympathy on the phone in the call. I'd have said I am sorry for her loss. I'd have thanked her for calling. Then, I'd hang up. Go have a beer, shake my head and go WTF that was weird. and wait for the next contact, whether its one week or one month or one year. It is cheaper to pay an extortionist what they want than to resist, and this is a type of legal extortion, but sometimes its just better to let time work its magic. The negatives, with a signed agreement, belong to the photographer. A memory portfolio certainly is a kind gesture. I lost the urge to have such kindness when someone mentioned litigation. Whether we like them or dislike them, the number one thing that lawyers do in thic country that benefits all of us is tell people who don't have a case that they need to pay sizable bucks to persue a case with minimal likely returns. Or then there are those attorneys who say they are sorry, but you have no cause of action that would hold up in court. Hassel suing, yeah it happens, but then, most lawyers are disinclined to have a complaint against them to the bar association on such subjects. It does depend on the state and the people in power at the bar, but frivilous litigation can be a cause for counter litigation which is not so frivolous. Jan 11 07 03:27 pm Link Brian Hillburn wrote: Give her a copy if she wants, for a memory, if they would make the mother a good memory. Otherwise, give her nothing. Jan 11 07 03:33 pm Link I would just give all of the negatives and prints, its so not worth it going to court. The mother is upset over the death of her child. So just dont take her words offensively. Kill her with kindness thats all I can say. Jan 11 07 03:39 pm Link Patrick Walberg wrote: Jason McKendricks wrote: Wow! Thanks Jason! I forgot I wrote that! Jan 11 07 04:46 pm Link I personally would check the Obits for the week she died, first of all.Either way I would not give them up. It is not your fault she passed away. She signed a release and you own them.The judge I doubt would even hear the case unless the model was a minor. Then again still, a release was signed. Mom has no case. If you sold some once, I am sure you could sell some again sometime. Give mom a buy out option. Jan 11 07 04:52 pm Link |
