Photographer
Dave Mauzy
Posts: 28
REGO PARK, New York, US
If the release is in order, the mother has no legal grounds.
Express condolances and give or keep according to your desires.
Seek legal council as is your want.
The threat of suit is ultimately empty ... even if she doesn't think so....
Photographer
Dave Mauzy
Posts: 28
REGO PARK, New York, US
Perez Imagery wrote:
Because you bought it and it belongs to you. They can buy it back. exactly. circumstances might ultimately change that thought for me ... but as things stand right now ... exactly.
Photographer
JulianRancePhotography
Posts: 281
Charlotte, North Carolina, US
David Baxter wrote:
Am I the only one that finds this strange? A healthy 21 year old just dies in her sleep? Could it be possible that the mom found out the daughter was modeling, freaked out, and made up some story just to try and get the pictures back? Considering some of the excuses I've heard in my life I wouldn't put it past some mothers to do such a thing. Finally!!! Somebody is smelling the fishiness in this story besides me!!! The OP should pull a Magnum PI and get more proof that the model is indeed dead.
(*Begin Aston Kutcher Voice from "That 70's Show") I mean afterall...my best friends mother told me that she saw a real alien from the planet Zandor eating from a trash dumpster behind the Holiday Inn last week and I believe her because It's my best friend's mother (*End Aston Kutcher Voice from "That 70's Show")
Photographer
Emeritus
Posts: 22000
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
Dave Mauzy wrote:
If the release is in order, the mother has no legal grounds. Once again . . .
The release has nothing whatever to do with whether or nor the mother has grounds to claim the images.
Model
Nemi
Posts: 27413
Jamaica, New York, US
TXPhotog wrote:
Yes, but "rational thinking" would then suggest that there are many other possibilities besides the ones that you suggest. It would further be rational to consider those other possibilities, not just yours, when coming to a conclusion on what to do. Yes, there are other possibilities, I just think that photographers hear the word sue and go crazy.
People are human.
People have emotions.
Sometimes the emotions that are projected on someone have nothing to do with that person at all.
Some of the people in this thread act like they have never lost someone before or never done or said an irrational thing in their life.
That was the point of my post, it wasn't supposed to be a be all end all solution.
Photographer
Mike Cummings
Posts: 5896
LAKE COMO, Florida, US
Cyberhawk Studios wrote:
Unfortunately, I'm in position to see both sides of this discussion.
As a grieving parent, I was floored when Lifetouch sent me the original negative of the school photograph they had shot two weeks prior with a full release. Needless to say alot of respect was gained that day!
Cover your butt legally, but "no good deed goes unpunished" Did you ask them for the negative?
Photographer
kickfight
Posts: 35054
Portland, Oregon, US
jason "pollyanna" messer wrote:
i think you misunderstood what i meant. im betting she wants her childs memories INTACT. I realize that. Who wouldn't want to manufacture an idealized version of a loved one? But you know who gets to do that? NOBODY. Why? Because it's unrealistic and, frankly, unfair to the departed. You can't go back and retroactively shampoo away the events of a person's life. That woman, if she is in fact dead, did what she did with her life. It was HER LIFE. Mom is acting out of her own grief. It's understandable, but it does NOT give her the right to do any of this.
jason "pollyanna" messer wrote:
id give them to her. why not find a new model, shoot the same photos, and get another release? Because the principle is WRONG. Her daughter was NOT the mom's property; her daughter was a living, feeling, independent person who acted on her own and made her own decisions. The photographer and the model entered into a working relationship, and the mother HAS to respect that as her daughter's choice. Otherwise, she's disrespecting her daughter more than anyone else.
Mom needs to find something else to focus on while she grieves. This is NOT a healthy outlet for her grief.
And if a photographer is cheap and tawdry enough to use the images of that woman to sell for a massage parlor or a strip club or whatever, then THAT's when Karma comes into play. But Karma has to be the operating element in that case. Common sense and respect for the dead, on the other hand, dictate that Mom just stay out of it, and not try to impose her grief on other people's business.
Photographer
Vito
Posts: 4582
Brooklyn, New York, US
TXPhotog wrote:
No, it doesn't.
If he has a release, he has a right to keep the photos.
If he doesn't have a release, he has a right to keep the photos.
The release is totally immaterial as to his rights to keep the photos.
I bring this up only because some people seemed to be relying on the fact that he has a release as a justification for keeping the photos. It isn't. It's justification only in the fact that is now the only proof the photographer has that the model "agreed" to being photographed of her own free will and she was compensated (somehow) for them.
Model
Lexi Stevens
Posts: 13
White Rock, British Columbia, Canada
Jose Luis wrote:
Well, how is she going to sue you? On what grounds? She has none.
The photos were yours- you are the photographer you own them.
If she brings up a privacy lawsuit- the only quesion will be consent. You have your testimony and a release. The model is dead so she cant testify.
From a legal perspective- she can do nothing.
Morally, I would let the mother know how sorry I am. I would then advise the mother that I dont give up negatives of my work for free. I just dont do it. If she is asking that I dont use the images in any way- I would probably comply with that if I didnt pay the model or have any expenses in that shoot. If I did, I would first ask that to I be recompensated. Re the images already sold- no action would be taken.
Here is why- the mother doesnt trust me. If her only reason in asking this is that her deerly departed daughter is dead and had 2nd thoughts, what does it matter that I have the images. She obviously doesnt trust that I will just not use them if she asks me to. The 2nd indicator is the threatened lawsuit. This woman (the mother) has no legal right here. She is asking me on a moral basis and is yet saying that (a) I dont trust your word- so I need the disc and negs and (b) if you dont do what I ask you- I will take you to court. To me, the mother can kiss off- but out of respect for the model- I would try to be reasonable- that doesnt mean I cave- I do what I expressed above.
Model
Lexi Stevens
Posts: 13
White Rock, British Columbia, Canada
Jose Luis wrote:
Well, how is she going to sue you? On what grounds? She has none.
The photos were yours- you are the photographer you own them.
If she brings up a privacy lawsuit- the only quesion will be consent. You have your testimony and a release. The model is dead so she cant testify.
From a legal perspective- she can do nothing.
Morally, I would let the mother know how sorry I am. I would then advise the mother that I dont give up negatives of my work for free. I just dont do it. If she is asking that I dont use the images in any way- I would probably comply with that if I didnt pay the model or have any expenses in that shoot. If I did, I would first ask that to I be recompensated. Re the images already sold- no action would be taken.
could not have said it better myself
Here is why- the mother doesnt trust me. If her only reason in asking this is that her deerly departed daughter is dead and had 2nd thoughts, what does it matter that I have the images. She obviously doesnt trust that I will just not use them if she asks me to. The 2nd indicator is the threatened lawsuit. This woman (the mother) has no legal right here. She is asking me on a moral basis and is yet saying that (a) I dont trust your word- so I need the disc and negs and (b) if you dont do what I ask you- I will take you to court. To me, the mother can kiss off- but out of respect for the model- I would try to be reasonable- that doesnt mean I cave- I do what I expressed above.
Photographer
Emeritus
Posts: 22000
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
Vito wrote:
It's justification only in the fact that is now the only proof the photographer has that the model "agreed" to being photographed of her own free will and she was compensated (somehow) for them. It's not proof of the fact that she posed of her own free will. The same amount of free will was exercised in posing as in signing the release. No more, no less.
It doesn't matter if she were compensated or not for purposes of ownership of the images. The photographer owns them. If mom feels that money is due for modeling fees, that's a whole different issue, and one that has not been raised.
Photographer
kickfight
Posts: 35054
Portland, Oregon, US
TXPhotog wrote:
It's not proof of the fact that she posed of her own free will. The same amount of
free will was exercised in posing as in signing the release. No more, no less. Well, it's certainly an indicator that she was likely not COERCED into both posing and signing.
Photographer
D. M. Gremlin
Posts: 197
Long Beach, California, US
The solution is obvious, and I can't believe nobody has posted this yet.
The mother clearly misses her daughter and wants to be with her.
You have to help her.
(Kill her)
Photographer
photosbydmp
Posts: 3808
Shepparton-Mooroopna, Victoria, Australia
BCG wrote:
is asking the mom to do a photo session in bad taste??? works for me.
Photographer
American Glamour
Posts: 38813
Detroit, Michigan, US
D. M. Gremlin wrote:
The solution is obvious, and I can't believe nobody has posted this yet.
The mother clearly misses her daughter and wants to be with her.
You have to help her.
(Kill her) We should have just asked you to begin with. Why didn't we think of that.
Photographer
Michael Tappan
Posts: 122
Scottsbluff, Nebraska, US
The Don Mon wrote:
Got a phone call yesterday from a mother of a model I helped get started.
She informed me that she had passed away 2 weeks ago.She had died while asleep
with no warning and she pretty much just never woke up.
she was 21...wasnt informed on what her death was from.
Ill be finding out in a day or so.
Her mother requested any and all negatives and disks.
Im going to do it because im not really doing anything with the shots.
However I did sell some of them,shortly after i shot with her.
Reason why is she says that she regreated doing photos((news to me))
She signed a release and we never had any issues i also told her what i was going to do with them right off the bat.She was fine with it ((the model)).
so out of nowhere the mother threatens me that if i dont ((after i already said i was going to.)) that she is going to sue me if i dont.im like wtf where the hell did that come from?
((now im debating why should i even bother )) let her try to sue me then i counter sue for lost wages and distress...
so im asking you all what would you do ?
((i already have my own answer i just want to see what you all say...
keep in mind that my beliefs is... i always educated and looked all for
all the girls ever shot with as much as i can from fraud and what not.)) I'm not too sure that legally the mother can make any demands on you on behalf of her deceased daughter, implied or actual. Your contract was with the daughter - not the mother so the mother, strickly from a legal standpoint, has no right or basis in law to "demand" you "perform" without compensation.
From the emotional standpoint, who wants to be the bad guy at a time like this?
As much as you might be able to identify with the mother's loss, to your knowledge, the deceased model never expressed to you any desire for her mother to have her images, so you might in fact be betraying the agreement you made with the model should you provide the mother with images.
Final point - whatever the mother is telling you about her daughters "wishes" are hearsay as the daughter never expressed these views to you and your agreement was with the daughter, not the mother. There is the question of the mother inheriting "rights" to her daughter's estate, however, demanding you provide all images AND negatives AND threatening to sue, seems to be a mother's effort to protect the memory of her daughter, so I'm sure the content of the images might be another part of this story.
Do what you feel is morally right and you can't go wrong.
Photographer
American Glamour
Posts: 38813
Detroit, Michigan, US
Alan from Aavian Prod wrote:
Sudden, unexplained death of a 21 year old in their sleep is such a rare thing. Angel Tara wrote:
I guess some of you have seen models lie about death to get out of contracts, but my sister was 22 when she died that way, so the claim that the model is dead isn't far fetched to me.
For a long time afterwards, I saw my mother do some very nutty things out of grief. First, my condolences to you. I lost both my father and my sister unexpectedly not long ago so I know what you must have gone through.
Second, I am not suggesting that it isn't possible, I am suggesting that he should simply be sure she has indeed passed away. If she has, he has to act accordingly. I personally would be very sympathetic if it is true.
That having been said, I have had more than one family member call me and ask for photos because their kin had died (not). I can't tell you how many photo shoots have been cancelled for family members who hadn't died (or in one case, died twice). There have been hospital visits, car accidents and dead dogs, all that weren't real.
So my point is simple. Before lamenting this, look at the obituaries in the paper. Is the daughter listed? If so, he obviously needs to deal with the situation. He already offered to return the pictures (before she got beligerent). If the woman is in grief, you have to forgive her and make a decision.
If there is no obit, then you have to ask the question, is she really dead? Until you know, you can't decide what to do, but it is more likely it is a story than it is true. But as Sherlock Holmes said, "If you eliminate the impossible, all that remains is the possible, no matter how improbable."
Photographer
C and J Photography
Posts: 1986
Hauula, Hawaii, US
I would be willing to email the mother 1 or a few jpeg files that were Senior Photo style. I would be willing to crop a larger image to find a head-shot if need be. I would send the image file(s) in an email that included an authorization for the mother to make prints and derivative works. I would not send anything that she would be further upset by e.g. a shot that the mother thought the model regretted.
There is absolutely no way I would sign or even verbally agree to not further market the images. Doing so could open a hornet's nest if an accidental sale later occurred. I would delete the images from my archives if it was convenient and I didn't expect to market them. Otherwise I would be willing to sell the files to the mother and make a very limited agreement to make a good faith attempt to remove the images from my resource pool.
If the mother were to continue in abusive threatening behavior I would put the regrettable images with a stock house at ridiculously low prices. I guess I just don't respond well to abusive threatening behavior.
As to the issue of the model allegedly being less than pleased with the photos being published. Get real. Should everyone who buys a CD with ELVIS recordings that he didn't release during his life feel like they violated his wishes?
Photographer
BCI Photo
Posts: 938
Indianapolis, Indiana, US
keithg wrote:
Just do what you would like to have done if the roles were reversed.
Keith I'd do like I did in Amanda's situation. I'd look at them, make copies of the best ones and call it a day.
Had it been my kid, i'd still just ask for the copies. I wouldn't be looking to sue anyone. Though out of respect, I would ask if they could remove the images in her honor. Now if the photog wanted to make a memorial, i'd be pleased with that.
People never get anything done professionally acting like assholes.
Photographer
Benjamen McGuire
Posts: 3991
Portland, Oregon, US
I haven't read all 7 pages but I'd say that since you don't mind loosing the photos you should tell the mom that with a certified death certificate and a polite written request (for your records) you'll destroy all remaining images and not market them further. I don't know about you but if I regretted doing certain photos, I sure as hell wouldn't want my mom to see them. Dead or not.
Photographer
Jim T Photography
Posts: 104
Frackville, Pennsylvania, US
My first questions would be did the model really die (did u see it in the paper are there any legal records of death) or did she pose for some shots that she now regrets and the mother is pissed off about.. and they are trying to take all actions to reterive all pics..
Model
not here anymore #523
Posts: 23
Colorado Springs, Colorado, US
This is very sad. I am kinda in limbo with this issue, but honestly if you have no motives for the work then you should hand them over and get on with your life and let the mother and family grieve with their daughters pics. I honestly know my mom would do the same thing for me, and honestly being a female we confide in our mothers and no man should come between momma bear! Maybe she used the word regret because she thought this was the only way to have those pictures returned. It seems that people have lost their manners and ethics. I'm sure you will shoot with other beautiful girls and you don't need hers. Being that the mother threatened you, if someone uses death as a tool to get pics back and you find out she is not dead that is a lawsuit for you, and her mother should have learned about Karma by now. I would never use death to get anything on anyone! Not to say it doesn't happen but KARMA is there awaiting those that do. I would definitely return the pics graciously! It seems you have a conscious because you were thinking about returning the pics until she pissed you off. Well obviously you will not work with her daughter again because she is either dead or the mother is evil, so just return them and be the bigger person.
Photographer
Gray Line Studios
Posts: 168
Lynchburg, Virginia, US
Legally you have every right to keep the shots, but do you want the hassle or to be know as the photog who is hanging onto the pics of â¦â¦you know what I mean.
Like some of the others, I think the mother was lashing out in anger or a lack of knowledge of the law. I canât tell you how often people (who donât know) tell me what the laws are in my area. You would win the suit, but at what expense (money, reputation)?
If there are shoots you donât want to loose, then keep those and send the others along with a sympathy note explaining some of the photos had been sold (with her daughter approval) right after the shoot. And make sure you donât loose the model release!
Photographer
Marvin Dockery
Posts: 2243
Alcoa, Tennessee, US
The Don Mon wrote:
Got a phone call yesterday from a mother of a model I helped get started.
She informed me that she had passed away 2 weeks ago.She had died while asleep
with no warning and she pretty much just never woke up.
she was 21...wasnt informed on what her death was from.
Ill be finding out in a day or so.
Her mother requested any and all negatives and disks.
Im going to do it because im not really doing anything with the shots.
However I did sell some of them,shortly after i shot with her.
Reason why is she says that she regreated doing photos((news to me))
She signed a release and we never had any issues i also told her what i was going to do with them right off the bat.She was fine with it ((the model)).
so out of nowhere the mother threatens me that if i dont ((after i already said i was going to.)) that she is going to sue me if i dont.im like wtf where the hell did that come from?
((now im debating why should i even bother )) let her try to sue me then i counter sue for lost wages and distress...
so im asking you all what would you do ?
((i already have my own answer i just want to see what you all say...
keep in mind that my beliefs is... i always educated and looked all for
all the girls ever shot with as much as i can from fraud and what not.)) Do you think the models will send all of their prints back to your estate when you die?
I doubt if this model would have. Keep the images and use them the best you can.
I would cut off all contact with the model's mother. It's a shame she died, but this is what releases do for us. It shows that the model released her rights to the images, and her estate would also not have a claim.
If the mother keep calling you, just tell her to get a lawyer.
Photographer
Emeritus
Posts: 22000
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
kickfight wrote:
Well, it's certainly an indicator that she was likely not COERCED into both posing and signing. How so? If I coerce a model into signing a release, is that evidence that I did not coerce her to pose? And how can you tell from seeing the release?
Photographer
Cyberhawk Studios
Posts: 387
Mount Vernon, Washington, US
Mike Cummings wrote:
Did you ask them for the negative? Nope, my friend contacted them (I was in no shape to do much of anything) about possibly getting an 8x10 for the funeral service since it was the last picture taken of her. Not only did they send an 8x10, but also sent a whole package of pictures and the negative, and would not take any payment for it!
Photographer
Wayne Quilliam
Posts: 7
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
no,no,no and no provide copies never ever give up your negs, you'll regret it in the future.
Wayne
Photographer
La Seine by the Hudson
Posts: 8587
New York, New York, US
Guys, for the last time, the release has nothing to do with ownership of the images whatsoever. The images are the sole property of the photographer. That's copyright law. Period. All the release does is prove he had the right to make the sales he already made. That's it. And perhaps strengthen his assertion that the model posed willingly should the mother try to call that into question later, but that's far from airtight.
Secondly, this issue, once the word "lawsuit" came into play, has nothing to do with doing the right or the wrong thing. He expressed no particular attachment to the images, his consideration over keeping or handing them over is a matter of legal defense. If I were in the photographer's position, I would've given up everything to the mother out of sympathy.... Until the word "lawsuit" came out. Which it did. At that point, grieving mother is picking a fight (and it sounds to me is on a crusade to protect the memory of her daughter's chastity, which is a dangerous woman to be dealing with, but that's just an assumption on my part), and any dealings, even charitable, with someone looking for a fight could simply prove to add fuel to the fire. (Sounds to me like the images were nudes or something along those lines, and mother never approved of her daughter's line of work... again an assumption, but it sure sounds like it to me.) The OP has to very carefully consider any contact with this woman and the possible consequences. My opinion is nothing is done without a cooling off period. Mom might simply be hysterical. Or, Mom might be on a crusade. Anybody stop to think that handing over nude photos to a mom on a crusade might not be the smartest move? Doesn't matter that she has no legal grounds. If she finds a lawyer (or worse, a DA) that can come up with some creative grounds, then his trip to legal hell begins. Baseless or not. You don't have to lose a court case to lose a lot of time, money, and hairs on your scalp.
Everything changed once the word "lawsuit" came into the equation. The OP has to first protect himself, and then he can think about being a good guy.
You wouldn't say we're very judgmental of each other around here, would you?
Photographer
La Seine by the Hudson
Posts: 8587
New York, New York, US
Cyberhawk Studios wrote:
Nope, my friend contacted them (I was in no shape to do much of anything) about possibly getting an 8x10 for the funeral service since it was the last picture taken of her. Not only did they send an 8x10, but also sent a whole package of pictures and the negative, and would not take any payment for it! These two situations have nothing whatsoever to do with each other. The OP already said he's not planning to make any sales of the images. This is all about being legally prudent in the face of threats, nothing else.
Photographer
Dave Krueger
Posts: 2851
Huntsville, Alabama, US
The Don Mon wrote:
Got a phone call yesterday from a mother of a model I helped get started.
She informed me that she had passed away 2 weeks ago.She had died while asleep
with no warning and she pretty much just never woke up.
she was 21...wasnt informed on what her death was from.
Ill be finding out in a day or so.
Her mother requested any and all negatives and disks. Don't do it. I think she's going use the pictures as evidence to pin her daughter's death on you. Destroy them, change your name, and leave the country.
DISCLAIMER: The above is not meant to be considered legal advice.
Photographer
kickfight
Posts: 35054
Portland, Oregon, US
TXPhotog wrote:
How so? If I coerce a model into signing a release, is that evidence that I did not coerce her to pose? And how can you tell from seeing the release? If you coerce a model to sign a release, the model would need to provide proof that she was coerced to do so. The release itself would only serve as proof that she voluntarily and knowledgeably participated in a photo shoot, and would not address any assumptions about potential coercion, as it would not be logical to make any such assumptions based solely on the existence of a signed release. In order to address any assumptions about potential coercion, something beyond the release would need to be offered as evidence.
The existence of a release only serves to support a claim of voluntary participation, and implies nothing else.
Photographer
D Freeman
Posts: 490
Fresno, California, US
Manipulative people don't take a break from their bad behavior just because of a tragedy. The mom is plainly a manipulative ass. Her sudden change in demeanor(from reasonable, to her real self) most likely comes from her dealings with other photogs in your area. Ignore it, and deal with the issue rationally. Your *feeeeelings*(Dr. Laura whining voice) are irrelevant to the issue whether or not they're justified.
If she's telling the truth, she has suffered an unbelievable loss, and *some* compassion is warranted, but your primary obligation is to the daughter, and.. wait...
... wait just a damn minute...
If the daughter signed a release with up-front knowledge that it was your intention to publish the work, then.. do you really have an obligation to her to respect her privacy when she didn't expect any? That is not to say that she wouldn't want her mom to see the images, but.. she was fully aware that her mom, her family, and the world *might* see the images, and she was O.K. with that. Why are we so concerned with protecting the modesty of the dead when they had none? Besides, modeling(even nude modeling) is not a dishonorable profession, and... really.. what's wrong with boobies?
Hmm..
You can't believe anything she said, and even if you puss out and turn them over, she'll never believe that you did anyway. Soo....give her the PG images(NOT to protect the privacy of the model, but simply to keep from adding more fuel to the fire), and let her know that the rest will never see the light of day. Not in her hands, and not in anyone elses. Find a nice way to say it, but make it clear that you stand firm on this decision. Sound off like you have a pair, because if you give the slightest impression of weakness, she's never going to go leave you alone.
BTW.. it's likely that it was the mother who was against the modeling, not the daugther. If that *is* the case, then it's VERY unlikely that she'd want to start what would be a very public case in which the images would *have* to be displayed for all the world to see.
It's called bluffing.... Just make your own move, and she'll fold.
Photographer
Click Hamilton
Posts: 36555
San Diego, California, US
It seem that a lot of people might be missing this point:
Maybe the mother or a lawyer for the family are trying to find a cause of death. At that age and in good health, it could be a drug overdose, or suicide, etc.
You may considered by them to be a suspect for creating or leading to this unfortunate consequence. So they want everything they can get from you to find answers. Maybe they want to accuse this "old man" who misled and took advantage of their "baby" girl, and created the situation that led to her death. Throw in nudity ... and what else? Was "alcohol involved" .. (meaning did you drink a beer with the sushi when you bought her lunch) ... which also might be construed as a date. Do any of your photos indicate anything that might be considered "touching her inappropriately"?
etc., etc., ... never underestimate the dastardly crap that can fly when lawyers get involved with personal tragedies.
Photographer
Nick Ryder
Posts: 317
Walnut Creek, California, US
If nothing else, this thread has exposed a lot of individual's true colors, some of the callous remarks and comments concerning a grieiving mother, to be honest, I find it somewhat disturbing. Losing a child is a horrific experience, it feels like your guts are getting yanked out. To have the entire topic take a turn with phrases like; "counter sue the Mom!" , sorry, I just can't even fathom being disrespectful to a mother in her time of grief. Big deal, she threatend a lawsuit, people say stupid stuff when their emotions are running high.
Personally, if I were a model, I would be making some mental notes, because God forbid, the next model that experiences something similar could be you and it's evident how some of these gentlemen conduct themselves with kindness and understanding.
I could see if the pics were of someone famous and there was a tens of thousands at stake, but, c'mon...who cares if he can legally take a grieving mother to the mat legally? Big Men here on Model Mayhem, kick someone when they are at their lowest point. Maybe he can go to the funeral and sell 8 x 10's and get t-shirts printed...
These are the same caring, loving , "aw-shucks" guys who HATE managers, HATE gwc's, now they HATE mother's grieving over their dead child. What is the gain in being right on this deal?
Everyday I see posts where a model prefaces what she is about the say with "I hope I don't get blasted by the photographers for saying this"... that's because if they say one thing that might upset the Gods, they will become a victim of getting BLITZKREIG'ed in a public forum.
If this lady is lying about her child being dead, she should be tarred and feathered.
Photographer
Mikel Featherston
Posts: 11103
San Diego, California, US
Iris Swope wrote:
Alot of you are the spiteful people who spit on the homeless people, and splash water on people walking when you drive by, aren't you... No, I leave that to the compassionate conservatives and their evangelical friends.
Model
Jakki Browne
Posts: 3457
Los Angeles, California, US
Nick Ryder wrote:
If nothing else, this thread has exposed a lot of individual's true colors, some of the callous remarks and comments concerning a grieiving mother, to be honest, I find it somewhat disturbing. Losing a child is a horrific experience, it feels like your guts are getting yanked out. To have the entire topic take a turn with phrases like; "counter sue the Mom!" , sorry, I just can't even fathom being disrespectful to a mother in her time of grief. Big deal, she threatend a lawsuit, people say stupid stuff when their emotions are running high.
Personally, if I were a model, I would be making some mental notes, because God forbid, the next model that experiences something similar could be you and it's evident how some of these gentlemen conduct themselves with kindness and understanding.
I could see if the pics were of someone famous and there was a tens of thousands at stake, but, c'mon...who cares if he can legally take a grieving mother to the mat legally? Big Men here on Model Mayhem, kick someone when they are at their lowest point. Maybe he can go to the funeral and sell 8 x 10's and get t-shirts printed...
These are the same caring, loving , "aw-shucks" guys who HATE managers, HATE gwc's, now they HATE mother's grieving over their dead child. What is the gain in being right on this deal?
Everyday I see posts where a model prefaces what she is about the say with "I hope I don't get blasted by the photographers for saying this"... that's because if they say one thing that might upset the Gods, they will become a victim of getting BLITZKREIG'ed in a public forum.
If this lady is lying about her child being dead, she should be tarred and feathered. well said.
Photographer
Dave Krueger
Posts: 2851
Huntsville, Alabama, US
Nick Ryder wrote:
Maybe he can go to the funeral and sell 8 x 10's and get t-shirts printed... Hey! Now you're catching on!
Photographer
Jack Curtis
Posts: 224
Westlake, Louisiana, US
I understand how you feel about the "uncalled for" follow up threats. But from the outside looking in, and not knowing her, my first reaction is she's really out of sorts over her daughter's death and probably "expects" a defensive posture from you, who paid for and DOES have unconditional control of the images.
I did a photo shoot a couple years ago with Jasmine Grey, a well known model from my area, well liked, confident, beautiful young woman, with quite a following in the Glamourcon circuit. She tragically lost her life in an auto accident December of last year. There was a great outpouring over her loss. I had several photo series with her on my site, which I took down immediately and posted some sedate headshots and a tribute to this young beauty. Not by any request, but out of respect and it was my own choice. Other sites who worked with her still have her images up, even continue to use her on their banner pages. I guess different people process this sort of thing in different ways. I MAKE NO JUDGEMENTS, I mean that comment quite seriously. For myself, taking down the galleries felt like the right thing to do. I've considered putting together a tribute portfolio and posting it on the site in the future, but I still haven't decided about that, and for now, her images remain locked away in storage.
Yes, you own the images and the right to use them, I guess you just have to decide for yourself the best way to handle the situation. Good luck.
Photographer
Tony Lawrence
Posts: 21528
Chicago, Illinois, US
Nick Ryder wrote:
If nothing else, this thread has exposed a lot of individual's true colors, some of the callous remarks and comments concerning a grieiving mother, to be honest, I find it somewhat disturbing. Losing a child is a horrific experience, it feels like your guts are getting yanked out. To have the entire topic take a turn with phrases like; "counter sue the Mom!" , sorry, I just can't even fathom being disrespectful to a mother in her time of grief. Big deal, she threatend a lawsuit, people say stupid stuff when their emotions are running high.
Personally, if I were a model, I would be making some mental notes, because God forbid, the next model that experiences something similar could be you and it's evident how some of these gentlemen conduct themselves with kindness and understanding.
I could see if the pics were of someone famous and there was a tens of thousands at stake, but, c'mon...who cares if he can legally take a grieving mother to the mat legally? Big Men here on Model Mayhem, kick someone when they are at their lowest point. Maybe he can go to the funeral and sell 8 x 10's and get t-shirts printed...
These are the same caring, loving , "aw-shucks" guys who HATE managers, HATE gwc's, now they HATE mother's grieving over their dead child. What is the gain in being right on this deal?
Everyday I see posts where a model prefaces what she is about the say with "I hope I don't get blasted by the photographers for saying this"... that's because if they say one thing that might upset the Gods, they will become a victim of getting BLITZKREIG'ed in a public forum.
If this lady is lying about her child being dead, she should be tarred and feathered. I'm all for being a good guy, Nick but she lost all the good fella points when she
started talking lawsuits. Sure she's sad and upset but she had the presence of
mind to start contacting photographers right after her daughters death and
instead of being polite and friendly she threatens him which is why some her
including me really wonder if she did die. I also suspect if he gives in that it
won't end with his sending the images. I think most people would have done
the understanding thing untill the threat.
Photographer
'Monk
Posts: 1779
Denver, Colorado, US
I say let the mother have them and think nothing else of it. She's in alot of pain I think and not aware of what she is doing right now. I am sure she will thank you later.
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