Marc Damon wrote:

The mother agencies in NYC, LA, & Miami do not have a petite division.
But the affliate agencies do.
Why does everyone seem to think that petite models don't exist?
Why would there be petite clothing lines & no petite models to wear the clothing?
I spoke with the agency today, and they were interested in starting me out in the local Macy's,Sears, and Boscov's catalogs.
Listen...I know my place. I've done my homework. I've accepted the fact I will never be a certain type of model.  But I do believe I have a place in the industry.  If this means I have to find it on my own, then so be it.

Alexandra Dennis wrote:
The mother agencies in NYC, LA, & Miami do not have a petite division.
But the affliate agencies do.

FYI, "Mother Agency" has a specific meaning in the entertainment industry.  You are using it incorrectly.

The correct terminology would be the Licensor, meaning Wilhelmina the company, and Licensee, the privately owned agencies or the Parent company and franchisees.

Let's keep the terminology correct so we don't debate the wrong thing.

Alexandra Dennis wrote:
The mother agencies in NYC, LA, & Miami do not have a petite division.
But the affliate agencies do.
Why does everyone seem to think that petite models don't exist?
Why would there be petite clothing lines & no petite models to wear the clothing?
I spoke with the agency today, and they were interested in starting me out in the local Macy's,Sears, and Boscov's catalogs.
Listen...I know my place. I've done my homework. I've accepted the fact I will never be a certain type of model.  But I do believe I have a place in the industry.  If this means I have to find it on my own, then so be it.

They do exist.  Mainstream agencies just pretty much never use them for any major work.
Such things would likely go to a 5'6" commercial model or a juvenile model.

ei Total Productions wrote:

FYI, "Mother Agency" has a specific meaning in the entertainment industry.  You are using it incorrectly.

The correct terminology would be the Licensor, meaning Wilhelmina the company, and Licensee, the privately owned agencies or the Parent company and franchisees.

Let's keep the terminology correct so we don't debate the wrong thing.

ok...

Alexandra Dennis wrote:
My friend & I attended an open call for a modeling agency that is a part of Wilhelmenia-called Harman Agency.  My friend & I got a call back from them, saying that they're interested in getting us signed.  Now they're asking us to pay $1,800 upfront to get our comp cards done & for the training.  I'm always hesitant with agency scams, and I just want to make sure we're not getting scammed. Help!

Same thing happend with me too with the SAME agency. They said that they need the money upfront because they are a smaller buisness and that you would "eventaully" pay with the bigger Wilhemina Agency etc.. It is a scam. And they won't stop calling my phone after I said no thanks.

Alexandra Dennis wrote:

The mother agencies in NYC, LA, & Miami do not have a petite division.
But the affliate agencies do.
Why does everyone seem to think that petite models don't exist?
Why would there be petite clothing lines & no petite models to wear the clothing?
I spoke with the agency today, and they were interested in starting me out in the local Macy's,Sears, and Boscov's catalogs.
Listen...I know my place. I've done my homework. I've accepted the fact I will never be a certain type of model.  But I do believe I have a place in the industry.  If this means I have to find it on my own, then so be it.

It depends on the market you're talking about. If you limit the discussion to top agencies around the world, there are no petite modeling agencies? Why? Because there is no demand. Models are used to advertise clothing. Those advertisers use the best of the best, not the average. Petite model are average in terms of height. You assumption that designers use petite models because they make petite clothing is flawed. Designers do not hire models to model every size in their line.

Now if you expand the market to include any and all modeling agencies in every market, then yes, petite models do exist. But under such a scenario, anyone can be called a model.

As for you modeling for Macy's, what would you considering modeling for Macy's? Certainly, most people would view it as a commercial fashion model to appear in one of their ads or catalogs. Those are hired in major markets from top agencies. And those agencies have height requirements of 5' 9" or taller. Now if your concept of modeling for Macy's is giving out perfume samples at the local mall, then yes, you can say you "modeled" for Macy's.

So in the discussion of height and what is a model, context is important.

ei Total Productions wrote:

FYI, "Mother Agency" has a specific meaning in the entertainment industry.  You are using it incorrectly.

The correct terminology would be the Licensor, meaning Wilhelmina the company, and Licensee, the privately owned agencies or the Parent company and franchisees.

Let's keep the terminology correct so we don't debate the wrong thing.

Glad you said it. That bothered me from the moment I read it and it was repeated several times by other people. That's how confusion starts. I wonder if that's how Plus models because plus size woman.

Alexandra Dennis wrote:
I also spoke with my affliate agency today, and they said they feel I have enough strong photos, with a good variety, so I won't need to shoot with the agency's photographer.  That means they will be lowering the price dramatically.
I'm also going to see if they can do any other negotiating with me on the price.

They will say and do anything to get some of your money. You will give it to them because in the end, you want to hear what they are telling you, even if they are lies. If you want to go for it, insist on no classes, no conventions, no use of their photographers, reasonable price for comp cards, no web fees, and no registration fee. This is not normally something I advise models to do with a major market agency but that's not what we are talking about here.

Alexandra Dennis wrote:
The mother agencies in NYC, LA, & Miami do not have a petite division.
But the affliate agencies do.
Why does everyone seem to think that petite models don't exist?
Why would there be petite clothing lines & no petite models to wear the clothing?
I spoke with the agency today, and they were interested in starting me out in the local Macy's,Sears, and Boscov's catalogs.
Listen...I know my place. I've done my homework. I've accepted the fact I will never be a certain type of model.  But I do believe I have a place in the industry.  If this means I have to find it on my own, then so be it.

You are 5'3" which is too short to be a petite model. When a vertically challenged model is needed, she is typically chosen from the commercial division where legitimate mainstream agencies have a minimum height requirement of at least 5'6".

I don't think anyone said petite models don't exist. What most people here have told you is than mainstream agencies don't have petite divisions, and affiliate agencies that do are often merely portfolio mills or outright scams.

It is a fact that models who are your height are at a severe disadvantage with regard to agency representation and if signed are seldom offered enough work to offset any agency fees for promotion or marketing materials.

If you have found an agency that will sign you and obtain enough work for you then congrats. You can add your name to the list of models who are truly the exception to the rule. But that list is short enough to name everyone on it in about 5 seconds and you have a better chance of winning the lottery than being included.

You are correct. You do have a place in the industry. But it isn't being a fashion or commercial model and it isn't with an agency that charges such high fees even if they are willing to negotiate them down.

+1 to everyone correcting the definition of mother

Photography by BE wrote:
darn it.. is this gonna be another thread that gets locked because of a brouhaha?  I hope not , because  I was learning so much.

If everyone qualifies their answer with context, it will avoid a lot of arguments. Something that applies to Wilhelmina NY does not apply to a Wilhelmina affiliate as much as that affiliate would like people to believe. Just as being a fit model for Macy's is not the same as being a catalog model for Macy's.

Biana_Libertine wrote:
America's next top model can have a season for ... models who weigh over 300 lbs

Davepit wrote:
They would rock the runway.

They would break the runway. 

Julian II wrote:
There are tons of opportunities for "petite" models, almost certainly not for fashion, but please keep the generalizations to a minimum that there is no work.  There is abundant opportunity if you are talented and have the look that ad agencies want for commercial work.

Edit: Yes, this a "small" market, Austin metro is about 1 million and Texas only has 24 million people.

Yes, shorter models can have more success in smaller markets. It doesn't change the fact that agencies not operating as portfolio mills or outright scams sign and promote exponentially fewer models who are under 5'6".

Julian II wrote:
I see a LOT of repetitions of "there are no modeling jobs for models 5'3" tall".  One of my favorite local models is 5'4".  She gets a LOT of commercial work. A whole series (print ads, TV commercials, billboards, catalog covers) for H.E.B, the largest Texas grocery store chain. She has appeared in ads for Dell computers.  And she is currently on the posters on bus stops around L.A for some health company (that was a stock photography job). And she even appears as a face model in lots of local ads for a variety of stores. No, she is not a full time model, but she does make money and I would say a successful petite model.

There are tons of opportunities for "petite" models, almost certainly not for fashion, but please keep the generalizations to a minimum that there is no work.  There is abundant opportunity if you are talented and have the look that ad agencies want for commercial work.

Edit: Yes, this a "small" market, Austin metro is about 1 million and Texas only has 24 million people.

I haven't seen ANYONE say that.  Back on page 1 in my original response to the OP I noted she still had opportunities, and several people (myself included) have talked about regional opportunities like you're talking about.

What people HAVE said, and accurately, is that at 5'3" even those regional opportunities will be limited, they won't (as you yourself said ) be a full time job, and "agencies" like the one that approached her are likely just after her $ and won't get her work.  None of that equals "there're no modeling jobs for models 5'3" tall."

PYPI FASHION wrote:

It depends on the market you're talking about. If you limit the discussion to top agencies around the world, there are no petite modeling agencies? Why? Because there is no demand. Models are used to advertise clothing. Those advertisers use the best of the best, not the average. Petite model are average in terms of height. You assumption that designers use petite models because they make petite clothing is flawed. Designers do not hire models to model every size in their line.

Now if you expand the market to include any and all modeling agencies in every market, then yes, petite models do exist. But under such a scenario, anyone can be called a model.

As for you modeling for Macy's, what would you considering modeling for Macy's? Certainly, most people would view it as a commercial fashion model to appear in one of their ads or catalogs. Those are hired in major markets from top agencies. And those agencies have height requirements of 5' 9" or taller. Now if your concept of modeling for Macy's is giving out perfume samples at the local mall, then yes, you can say you "modeled" for Macy's.

So in the discussion of height and what is a model, context is important.

+1
My good friend Katy got a huge job for Sears a couple of years ago, doing thier catalog work.
Katy is 5'10" and was hired from Elite... in NYC.

Julian II wrote:
There are tons of opportunities for "petite" models, almost certainly not for fashion, but please keep the generalizations to a minimum that there is no work.  There is abundant opportunity if you are talented and have the look that ad agencies want for commercial work.

How do you define "tons of opportunity"? By your own admission, your friend only works part time. Where are the tons of petite modeling agencies? Where are all these tons of petite model ads? I don't see them outside of commercial print. If I know a person who makes widgets for GM, does that mean there are tons of opportunity in the American automotive manufacturing sector?

Alexandra Dennis wrote:
I also spoke with my affliate agency today, and they said they feel I have enough strong photos, with a good variety, so I won't need to shoot with the agency's photographer.  That means they will be lowering the price dramatically.
I'm also going to see if they can do any other negotiating with me on the price.

Oh gosh ! Just get over the fact that no real big agency will take you in and find your own work!

Trust me I have been scammed when i first started out and i felt like a noob who got butt raped for 15000 when they got me 0 work.
I have 3 agencies now but one is for acting/commercial film. one is for conventions, and the other is commercial work. I have shot few awesome paid gigs on my own for such things like GUTIAR CENTER! and did a hair runway show for Sebastian hair products through my agency....it's all in your personality and persistence. Talking like a snobby model on MM won't get you work.
I actually signed with the 3rd agency to MI agency in LA today yay for meeee! buts thats the talent division.....

:]

Megan Taechon K wrote:
Oh gosh ! Just get over the fact that no real big agency will take you in and find your own work!

Trust me I have been scammed when i first started out and i felt like a noob who got butt raped for 15000 when they got me 0 work.
I have 3 agencies now but one is for acting/commercial film. one is for conventions, and the other is commercial work. I have shot few awesome paid gigs on my own for such things like GUTIAR CENTER! and did a hair runway show for Sebastian hair products through my agency....it's all in your personality and persistence. Talking like a snobby model on MM won't get you work.
I actually signed with the 3rd agency to MI agency in LA today yay for meeee! buts thats the talent division.....

:]

Megan, your post here and your port only prove one thing.
You have achieved success because of your hard won experience, incessant work and dedication to your goals, not because of some mysterious magic wand waved over your head by an agency or anyone else.
Kudos!

Marc Damon wrote:
:]

"Megan, your post here and your port only prove one thing.
You have achieved success because of your hard won experience, incessant work and dedication to your goals, not because of some mysterious magic wand waved over your head by an agency or anyone else.
Kudos! "

I agree...You should be proud of yourself... you have obviously worked hard.  You may never be high fashion or comercial but that is just fine

Marc Damon wrote:

Megan, your post here and your port only prove one thing.
You have achieved success because of your hard won experience, incessant work and dedication to your goals, not because of some mysterious magic wand waved over your head by an agency or anyone else.
Kudos!

your to sweet thank you very much

Julian II wrote:
I see a LOT of repetitions of "there are no modeling jobs for models 5'3" tall".  One of my favorite local models is 5'4".  She gets a LOT of commercial work. A whole series (print ads, TV commercials, billboards, catalog covers) for H.E.B, the largest Texas grocery store chain. She has appeared in ads for Dell computers.  And she is currently on the posters on bus stops around L.A for some health company (that was a stock photography job). And she even appears as a face model in lots of local ads for a variety of stores. No, she is not a full time model, but she does make money and I would say a successful petite model.

There are tons of opportunities for "petite" models, almost certainly not for fashion, but please keep the generalizations to a minimum that there is no work.  There is abundant opportunity if you are talented and have the look that ad agencies want for commercial work.

Edit: Yes, this a "small" market, Austin metro is about 1 million and Texas only has 24 million people.

Very true-thank you for your input
I like that example

PYPI FASHION wrote:

How do you define "tons of opportunity"? By your own admission, your friend only works part time. Where are the tons of petite modeling agencies? Where are all these tons of petite model ads? I don't see them outside of commercial print. If I know a person who makes widgets for GM, does that mean there are tons of opportunity in the American automotive manufacturing sector?

You spend WAY too much time in forums. Stop overanalyzing his statement.
You're confusing yourself & others.

Jim Williams wrote:
But today the big name agencies only bring in a small percent of all possible modeling work.

You're right. Top agencies are not interested in TF for exposure modeling "jobs".

Alexandra Dennis wrote:

You spend WAY too much time in forums. Stop overanalyzing his statement.
You're confusing yourself & others.

I never confuse myself. I concede it's a possibility that others may get confused considering the fact that some on the forum have the intellect of a turnip, that can't be helped.

PYPI FASHION wrote:
I never confuse myself. I concede it's a possibility that others may get confused considering the fact that some on the forum have the intellect of a turnip, that can't be helped.

Just because I had a typo with spelling Wilhelmina, doesn't make me an idiot.
I'm very a very intelligent college student.  You don't know me on that level. There is no need to go there.  Find other ways to boost your self esteem.

Alexandra Dennis wrote:

Just because I had a typo with spelling Wilhelmina, doesn't make me an idiot.
I'm very a very intelligent college student.  You don't know me on that level. There is no need to go there.  Find other ways to boost your self esteem.

I never care about spelling errors in the forum. That's what amateurs use to attack someone when they have run out of rebuttals. It's right up there with the forum post count attacks.

I don't believe you to be an idiot. The door is still open to you being a fool but that's only because you have talked yourself into believing the pipe dream this agency wants to sell you. They really should be giving you a commission on this sale because you have done half the work for them.

Alexandra Dennis wrote:
To be honest, I've been debating on what I'm going to do when I meet with them this week.  I've decided to tell them that I'm not going to pay anything upfront, and get my comp cards done on my own.

Well let us know how that works out. They will either show you the door or "sign" you to milk more money from you later when your resistance drops.

Alexandra Dennis wrote:
To be honest, I've been debating on what I'm going to do when I meet with them this week.  I've decided to tell them that I'm not going to pay anything upfront, and get my comp cards done on my own.

This will turn them off most likely... they wont make any money off you at all then.
You'll be shown the door.

You're 5'3.
Pat knows what he's talking about.

If you want to go and chase some dream that's not going to happen and jump into debt because you're throwing money here and there and not bringing in anything - go for it.
You're ignorant for not heeding the advice you've been given.

PYPI FASHION wrote:

Well let us know how that works out. They will either show you the door or "sign" you to milk more money from you later when your resistance drops.

I will make sure to let you guys know

Trevor K Ivanich wrote:

This will turn them off most likely... they wont make any money off you at all then.
You'll be shown the door.

You're 5'3.
Pat knows what he's talking about.

If you want to go and chase some dream that's not going to happen and jump into debt because you're throwing money here and there and not bringing in anything - go for it.
You're ignorant for not heeding the advice you've been given.

I never said he didn't know what he was talking about? & what gives you the right to decide whether or not I will fulfill my dream? You're probably right, they will most likely say no, but who knows until I try?  I've made good money modeling on my own so far, without an agency so far by free-lancing it.  I don't have a problem keeping it that way.  The reason why I'm looking for an agency, is to tap into more resources, and get more work.