Ex Voto  Studio wrote:
OP.. why not call the "mother agency" and ask them what you want to know?

/end thread.

Ughh I hate to say this..but you all are right.  I did more research & found that the agency I got into-is an affiliate of the mother agency.  Not to say that they couldn't get me good opportunities with assignments down the road, but it seems as if they're scamming people from the get go.  I think I'm just gonna go do this on my own & free lance it.  If an agency wants me bad enough, they won't make me pay for "marketing tools" which should very well be inclusive.
I know I have what it take to make it big-I'll just have to do it on my own. 

Thanks everyone for your advice & input!

SLE Photography wrote:

It wouldn't have anything to do with the real business if they had plus models, either. 

ironically the agency in question has a plus size division

Alexandra Dennis wrote:
Ughh I hate to say this..but you all are right.  I did more research & found that the agency I got into-is an affiliate of the mother agency.  Not to say that they couldn't get me good opportunities with assignments down the road, but it seems as if they're scamming people from the get go.  I think I'm just gonna go do this on my own & free lance it.  If an agency wants me bad enough, they won't make me pay for "marketing tools" which should very well be inclusive.
I know I have what it take to make it big-I'll just have to do it on my own. 

Thanks everyone for your advice & input!

  Good for you.

Brennan Hill wrote:

ironically the agency in question has a plus size division

Oh absolutely, there ARE plus divisions at SEVERAL real agencies.  Unlike "petite" divisions.  Doesn't change the fact that ANTM has ZERO to do with the real business. 

SLE Photography wrote:

  Good for you.

SLE Photography wrote:
If you read thru www.newmodels.com it explains quite a bit of this.

a curious question because i honestly don't know.

what real world experience do you have in working with and dealing with agencies in modeling industry? (or how about just your local orlando market)

how about the Pa. market?

you make a lot of statements of fact, that don't seem right to my understanding of the local industry...i think there should be some qualification for your statements.

(you contribute a lot in the forums, it would be great for the people reading your posts/responses to consider the source)

DKLEE STUDIO wrote:
there is this agency in richmond that does it.  they are a legit agency, but they do the same thing.

they say they will develop your port, and it is $900-$1500.  you can only shoot with their "agency" photographer.  his stuff is good, but for the agency to tell you who you can or can't shoot with, i think it is a scam.

It's not a scam, it's a "business model."

What successful business doesn't charge more than the cost of production?

Michael Pandolfo wrote:
What? A scam? You mean the offers I just got from Fourde and Uleet weren't legit? Dammit, now I'm going to have to email those yahoo accounts and refuse the checks. I hope they're not already in the mail!

I've been having an aweful day but THAT made me smile

Doug Swinskey wrote:
a curious question because i honestly don't know.

what real world experience do you have in working with and dealing with agencies in modeling industry? (or how about just your local orlando market)

how about the Pa. market?

you make a lot of statements of fact, that don't seem right to my understanding of the local industry...i think there should be some qualification for your statements.

(you contribute a lot in the forums, it would be great for the people reading your posts/responses to consider the source)

In my other full time work I frequently work with agencies on booking models for campaigns & ads both in Fl and NY, and on a few occasions in California.  I also deal with model/talent agencies in Fl for booking models for promotions & events.  You know this damn good & well, because I've publicly discussed it, including links to campaigns I've worked on for some good sized clients.  (For the casual reader, I am working on them in the capacity of creating the ads, not shooting them.)

And you're baiting me because you have a well know & ongoing personal issue with me that drives you to insist I have no credibility.  Should I link to your public comments where you brag that you tell models to stay away from me & refuse to work with anyone who has?  Or where you talk about revealing confidential Mod info about me being the "most blocked person on MM"?

This's part of your series of attacks on me that you carry on out of personal animus.    And honestly, I don't understand it because, if you stand by your contention that I'm a meaningless nobody, I don't get why you waste so much time on me.

Apologies to the OP for the threadjack.

Alexandra Dennis wrote:

Ughh I hate to say this..but you all are right.  I did more research & found that the agency I got into-is an affiliate of the mother agency.  Not to say that they couldn't get me good opportunities with assignments down the road, but it seems as if they're scamming people from the get go.  I think I'm just gonna go do this on my own & free lance it.  If an agency wants me bad enough, they won't make me pay for "marketing tools" which should very well be inclusive.
I know I have what it take to make it big-I'll just have to do it on my own. 

Thanks everyone for your advice & input!

Glad you got it sorted out.

Check out https://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thre … 791&page=1

Iona knows her stuff, and all the stuff that nude freelance models have to learn applies to clothed as well.

- Tripp wrote:
Ah, but it doesn't mean petite models are not being signed and getting lots of work for these agencies.

...except they're NOT. 

StephenEastwood wrote:

while true, it also confuses the issue.  technically if the model in a Top agency never works they still owe the agency the money, but the agency may never collect, but its not forgiven as a debt, so both "real" and  so called "scam" agencies work to make money from models by charging and over charging.  Some ask upfront, some don't, some collect for years, some don't, some get models real work, some don't, no agency can guarantee jobs to anyone, they only can offer models to clients they have and the market either accepts them or passes.  So while schools are not often useful, I know several models who had gone to one and were found at a convention by IMG/Elite/Ford/One/VisionLA/Next/Trump/ etc.  so yes, in some ways its a rip off, in others its a way to get found when other ways have not worked for them.  Also, those local "scams" may get local work for models which earns them more money if the model fits the criteria the agencies clients are looking for.  Its always hard to say its nothing but a scam, its often a real offer that is profiting from both sellable and non sellable models.  Many real commercial agencies have chosen to take a different path, they realize its not easy or likely to sell some commercial models, and insist that the model supply enough images to put together a portfolio and pay for said portfolio to bring in as well as comp cards and they merely list them as a possible, and collect a percentage if and when they sell it.  That way, they are not making anything until the models makes something, but the model must pay (actual money or barter) for all materials needed to be marketable.

Stephen Eastwood
http://www.NYPhotographics.com

in the music business it's called "recoupables"  young bands need to learn the term much like new models need to learn what you mention

- Tripp wrote:
The FACT about this topic: "We do not have a petite division..."

Ah, but it doesn't mean petite models are not being signed and getting lots of work for these agencies.

Signed? Yes.
Charged for port development? Yes.
Charged for marketing materials? Yes.
Charged for 'training'? Yes.

Getting lots of work? ROTFLMFAO

Marc Damon wrote:
Signed? Yes.
Charged for port development? Yes.
Charged for marketing materials? Yes.
Charged for 'training'? Yes.

Getting lots of work? ROTFLMFAO

My only FACT (not plural) was about "we do not have a petite division".

Everything else I added was not to be taken as a fact, hense saying "Tyra has somehow managed to spin... and "In my opinion..."

And petite models do get lots of work (elsewhere in commercial areas, with agencies that sign such), just not with Wilhelmina; which is why I made my point about Tyra spinning it to appear they do with her use of Sean and her clever editing on her show.  ;>)

- Tripp wrote:
My only FACT (not plural) was about "we do not have a petite division".

Everything else I added was not to be taken as a fact, hense saying "Tyra has somehow managed to spin... and "In my opinion..."

And petite models do get lots of work (elsewhere in commercial areas, with agencies that sign such), just not with Wilhelmina; which is why I made my point about Tyra spinning it to appear they do with her use of Sean and her clever editing on her show.  ;>)

No, they don't. 

Doug Swinskey wrote:
a curious question because i honestly don't know.

what real world experience do you have in working with and dealing with agencies in modeling industry? (or how about just your local orlando market)

how about the Pa. market?

you make a lot of statements of fact, that don't seem right to my understanding of the local industry...i think there should be some qualification for your statements.

(you contribute a lot in the forums, it would be great for the people reading your posts/responses to consider the source)

SLE Photography wrote:
In my other full time work I frequently work with agencies on booking models for campaigns & ads both in Fl and NY, and on a few occasions in California.  I also deal with model/talent agencies in Fl for booking models for promotions & events.  You know this damn good & well, because I've publicly discussed it, including links to campaigns I've worked on for some good sized clients.  (For the casual reader, I am working on them in the capacity of creating the ads, not shooting them.)

And you're baiting me because you have a well know & ongoing personal issue with me that drives you to insist I have no credibility.  Should I link to your public comments where you brag that you tell models to stay away from me & refuse to work with anyone who has?  Or where you talk about revealing confidential Mod info about me being the "most blocked person on MM"?

This's part of your series of attacks on me that you carry on out of personal animus.    And honestly, I don't understand it because, if you stand by your contention that I'm a meaningless nobody, I don't get why you waste so much time on me.

Apologies to the OP for the threadjack.

once again you seem to think something that is completely inaccurate...i only waste the time it takes to respond to you...but it's not really wasted if someone in the threads learn something from it...

the only personal issue i have with you, is not really personal at all....

for the most part, i don't believe you know what your talking about when you respond in the forums about industry related subjects. i think you try to relate the info you get from the newmodels site and use that as your basis for advising on industry related matters.

while the newmodels site is certainly the best info out there for new models, a lot of what it says is contradictory to your own orlando market (and small local markets in general), which makes me wonder why you don't make that distinction when responding to these type threads.

my thought is that you have no real working knowledge about working with agencies, only what you've read or been told by others...

i could be wrong, but i don't think i am...

you get a lot right, but you get as much wrong...

Doug Swinskey wrote:

once again you seem to think something that is completely inaccurate...i only waste the time it takes to respond to you...but it's not really wasted if someone in the threads learn something from it...

the only personal issue i have with you, is not really personal at all....

for the most part, i don't believe you know what your talking about when you respond in the forums about industry related subjects. i think you try to relate the info you get from the newmodels site and use that as your basis for advising on industry related matters.

while the newmodels site is certainly the best info out there for new models, a lot of what it says is contradictory to your own orlando market (and small local markets in general), which makes me wonder why you don't make that distinction when responding to these type threads.

my thought is that you have no real working knowledge about working with agencies, only what you've read or been told by others...

i could be wrong, but i don't think i am...

you get a lot right, but you get as much wrong...

I'm just quoting this because of your habit of making attacks & then rapidly hiding the posts before they can be quoted so you can play innocent when people talk about your pattern of harassment against myself & a few other members.

The one comment I will make in reply is that you're plainly disregarding things I've said about smaller & regional agencies (in this very thread, even) and some of the differences between them, how they operate, and the work they book vs major agencies, not to mention my specific comments about local agencies such as Wilhelmina's Orlando affiliate.

Have Pentax Will Travel wrote:
This is probably a better resource for new models: http://www.albamodel.info/

Color me slightly confused, but how is a site listing British material going to benefit a US model?

Especially a site full of outright misinformation such as "always take an escort because models get raped all the time," "Never ever sign any paperwork a photographer gives you," and "never ever pose nude or take your top off because it will destroy your career"?

Such comments presented in the hysterical way that site puts them out, as blanket statements & without qualification or context, serve to do more harm than good to models who're just starting out.

Heck, given that, as I said, the site's UK based, the part about signing stuff doesn't even make SENSE.  And they're selling "modeling classes," pageants, and other snake oil?

On top of that, the advice given is relevant to the UK situation and laws, and to fashion agencies, but not to US conditions.  For instance, they say things like,

"In the case of by post scams people wanting to apply answer the advert then they have then been asked to pay money up front in order to join that agency. Cases have varied from £25 to £250 stated as being an administration fee, a contract fee or a casting directory fee. Take careful note that genuine model and casting agencies only gain money from their workers by taking a percentage in commission and any administration or marketing fees once the worker is found paid assignments.

If a genuine agency has to pay out costs for the model then these things are only deducted from the models fee's once he or she starts earning money. In other words no money should be paid up front by the worker to the agency in order to join, register or to be placed within a casting directory or upon the agency Internet Web site or for photographs.

Just imagine how much money is made by charging a fee up front, 200 applicants x £25 , £99 or even £250 per person per week gives an annual income from fee's of over £450,000 upwards to some £ 2.5 million .... so what incentive is there for the agency to get their workers any work if they can make loads of money by charging a fee up front to join ?"

That is not at all the way most model agencies in the US work, and suggesting that it is does a terrible disservice to models aspiring to mainstream work.  But, again, it's the sort of thing a US photographer or model who doesn't know anything about agencies might see and think is correct.

I'd say people should be really cautious about accepting anything that site has to say.  Number one, it's not really relevant to MM members in the US, and number two it's pretty obvious they have some questionable agendas going on.

Have Pentax Will Travel wrote:
Will you two take it outside, please?

So sorry. 

- Tripp wrote:
My only FACT (not plural) was about "we do not have a petite division".

Everything else I added was not to be taken as a fact, hense saying "Tyra has somehow managed to spin... and "In my opinion..."

And petite models do get lots of work (elsewhere in commercial areas, with agencies that sign such), just not with Wilhelmina; which is why I made my point about Tyra spinning it to appear they do with her use of Sean and her clever editing on her show.  ;>)

Have Pentax Will Travel wrote:
This is probably a better resource for new models: http://www.albamodel.info/

Only if they live in the UK and want bad advice.

Have Pentax Will Travel wrote:
This is probably a better resource for new models: http://www.albamodel.info/

I have seen that website. It has a lot of good information mixed in with a lot of bad information. That does more harm than not giving out the good information.

Biana_Libertine wrote:
America's next top model can have a season for ... models who weigh over 300 lbs

They would rock the runway.

Have Pentax Will Travel wrote:

It's not a scam, it's a "business model."

What successful business doesn't charge more than the cost of production?

It's a scam because they get the money by false promises of getting the girl paying work. Knowing, at the time they make the promises, that there is no conceivable way they'll get the girl work as they claim. That's called fraud. If you don't understand fraud, there are web resources that explain it. Also see 18 USC 1341, CA Bus & Prof code 17500 and 17200.

SLE Photography wrote:
I'm just quoting this because of your habit of making attacks & then rapidly hiding the posts before they can be quoted so you can play innocent when people talk about your pattern of harassment against myself & a few other members.

edit: just saw the mod note: sorry.

just because you post more then anyone, doesn't make you credible.

just because you memorized the newmodel site, doesn't make  you an expert.

you do the community a disservice by posing as an expert when you clearly are not.

and how is responding to the some of the bullshit you post "a pattern of harrassment"? am i calling you house, your job, sending you emails or pms?

i asked you to qualify your statements...thats all..not for my benefit, but the benefit of the folks reading the thread. thats all..you are the one that can't seem to let go...

sometimes you border on ridiculousness.

Alexandra Dennis wrote:
My friend & I attended an open call for a modeling agency that is a part of Wilhelmenia-called Harman Agency.  My friend & I got a call back from them, saying that they're interested in getting us signed.  Now they're asking us to pay $1,800 upfront to get our comp cards done & for the training.  I'm always hesitant with agency scams, and I just want to make sure we're not getting scammed. Help!

1,800 is too much. I have no idea if their offer falls under 'legitimate' or 'scam',
but you ought to be able to get something going without putting that much of your own money into it upfront.

Have Pentax Will Travel wrote:
This is probably a better resource for new models: http://www.albamodel.info/

The advice there varies from applicable to UK-only, to hysterically idiotic, to the level of "How could anyone write such idiocy?"

In fairness, though, there is the occasionally bit of factual info, along with all the misinfo.

AaronPawlak ___________ wrote:

1,800 is too much. I have no idea if their offer falls under 'legitimate' or 'scam',
but you ought to be able to get something going without putting that much of your own money into it upfront.

Suppose they give their pitch and get 50 girls to cough up $1,800 apiece. That's $90,000. Pretty good money. Based on the quality of the photos, they don't have to pay the "photographer" much. So they get the money, and have the money, and don't have to get the girls a d..ned bit of paid work. It's basically similar to the modeling school scam, with only minor variations.

But as for the O.P., I don't think anyone has yet mentioned the "N word." What is the OP's opinion of modeling in her birthday suit?

SLE Photography wrote:
I'm just quoting this because of your habit of making attacks & then rapidly hiding the posts before they can be quoted so you can play innocent when people talk about your pattern of harassment against myself & a few other members.

Doug Swinskey wrote:
edit: just saw the mod note: sorry.

just because you post more then anyone, doesn't make you credible.

just because you memorized the newmodel site, doesn't make  you an expert.

you do the community a disservice by posing as an expert when you clearly are not.

and how is responding to the some of the bullshit you post "a pattern of harrassment"? am i calling you house, your job, sending you emails or pms?

i asked you to qualify you statements...thats all..not for my benefit, but the benefit of the folks reading the thread. thats all..you are the one that can't seem to let go...

sometimes you border on ridiculousness.

glamour pics wrote:

Suppose they give their pitch and get 50 girls to cough up $1,800 apiece. That's $90,000. Pretty good money. Based on the quality of the photos, they don't have to pay the "photographer" much. So they get the money, and have the money, and don't have to get the girls a d..ned bit of paid work. It's basically similar to the modeling school scam, with only minor variations.

But as for the O.P., I don't think anyone has yet mentioned the "N word." What is the OP's opinion of modeling in her birthday suit?

+1
But I don't think nekkid is the issue. Given the OP's stats it could make more work available to her but she wasn't asking about that type of work. Willy may offer some models assignments that require nudity but they don't have a nude division.

glamour pics wrote:

The advice there varies from applicable to UK-only, to hysterically idiotic, to the level of "How could anyone write such idiocy?"

In fairness, though, there is the occasionally bit of factual info, along with all the misinfo.

Their warnings are clearer than the ones on newmodels. That's the important part.