Photographer
Tim Baker-fotoPerfecta
Posts: 9877
Portland, Oregon, US
mica2326 wrote:
I would just not like to keep running around in circles...I started a topic, it got all twisted and no matter what it just keeps coming back to you (being mad). I've tryed to say I'm sorry, and I've tried to get back to the original subject...SORRY, ay dios mio... good night Good night Mica. /Tim
Model
mica2326
Posts: 46
Miami Beach, Florida, US
Thuy Anh wrote:
there it is again, that tone i was talking about earlier. you were good until you said "Its 2006, calm down". people on here will take that as sarcasm and probably an inflated ego because they can not hear you, they do not know that you are joking or anything. also most people in this industry you will have to learn to hold your tongue because all over the first page it's like you let loose with a super ego. people will not take that very well. so simply take most everything with a grain of salt. especially if you are not talking to them in person or on the phone. if you are only reading their words you need to choose carefully because different words have certain tones when people read them. i'm sorry if you had your first run in with tons of unprofessionalism, but the thing is just let it go, if the photographer is professional they will reschedule with you and apologize and if they don't then don't worry about it and find a different photographer.  i agree, im just not one to sugar coat anything. I tend to be a very laid back person and am still getting use to wording things properly.........sorry
Model
mica2326
Posts: 46
Miami Beach, Florida, US
Thuy Anh wrote:
there it is again, that tone i was talking about earlier. you were good until you said "Its 2006, calm down". people on here will take that as sarcasm and probably an inflated ego because they can not hear you, they do not know that you are joking or anything. also most people in this industry you will have to learn to hold your tongue because all over the first page it's like you let loose with a super ego. people will not take that very well. so simply take most everything with a grain of salt. especially if you are not talking to them in person or on the phone. if you are only reading their words you need to choose carefully because different words have certain tones when people read them. i'm sorry if you had your first run in with tons of unprofessionalism, but the thing is just let it go, if the photographer is professional they will reschedule with you and apologize and if they don't then don't worry about it and find a different photographer. i agree, im just not one to sugar coat anything. I tend to be a very laid back person and am still getting use to wording things properly.........sorry
Photographer
Ransomaniac
Posts: 12588
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
On the next episode of: "When Threads Go Wrong!!"
***Lollerskates out of thread***
Model
mica2326
Posts: 46
Miami Beach, Florida, US
Ransom J wrote:
On the next episode of: "When Threads Go Wrong!!"
***Lollerskates out of thread*** yah kno
Photographer
Torrence Williams
Posts: 247
Dallas, Texas, US
mica2326 wrote:
constantly photographers contact me then bail out...if we schedule a shoot then follow threw, is that too much to ask ? ? ? Someone please help me understand this... I try to break the "unreliable model" stigma but in return all I get are these BS photographers who make me sometimes want to leave the industry... Well I actually have never heard of a photog bailing out.. But models on the other hand.. Oh boy.. But we know that has been discussed in a number of threads....
Model
Brandon Smith
Posts: 1562
San Diego, California, US
Mica has brought forth a valuable lesson.....
Lets make this a point to any person who comes along MM and thinks that it is just a place where everything is Milk and Honey and that they can say whatever they feel without thinking that there may be reprecushions to their actions. The 100,000+ members of Mayhem are still people with feelings and what not (you know, emotion?). This is not Peewee's Playhouse where a "I am like rubber and you are like glue...." mentality exists. If you come here and throw negatives out to people, be prepared to take the blunt end of the stick. You play with the bull you get the horns.
Model
Shauna Carlo
Posts: 367
Boston, Massachusetts, US
mica2326 wrote:
we both need eachother, thats why i don't understand why photographers like to crap on models...? I r I have to say [maybe because i'm terrible at Internet communication too, lol] but I do understand all of what you're saying. I do also understand how some can take things the wrong way so you do have to watch what you say or how you word things.
Your original topic is about how a photographer flaked on you. Staying with that topic what it really comes down to is, when it's the photographer bailing out on a model the model doesn't lose much if anything. Sure you could've planned something else for during that time but at least you didn't have a problem like so many other models on here who do the shoot then never see their images. It was free and you didn't lose any promised images so it's more of a cut your losses deal. When a model flakes on a photographer it is a bit different. Many photographers here do photography for a living so a model flaking on them is lost money for them. Even if it was a TFP/CD shoot the photographer could've spent that time doing a shoot with another model or family, etc, that they could be paid for. There are some photographers who do it as a hobby and in those cases one flaking on the other is rather equal in losses so one really can't compare. Either side has every right to complain when felt done wrong. This just got turned around somewhere and became way off topic.
Photographer
Mann Made Imagery
Posts: 5281
Lubbock, Texas, US
Brandon Smith wrote:
*snip*
You play with the bull you get the horns. man if i played with the bull i would have hamburger patties ready to grill LOL i'm hungry right now if you couldn't tell. LOL
Model
mica2326
Posts: 46
Miami Beach, Florida, US
Brandon Smith wrote:
Mica has brought forth a valuable lesson.....
Lets make this a point to any person who comes along MM and thinks that it is just a place where everything is Milk and Honey and that they can say whatever they feel without thinking that there may be reprecushions to their actions. The 100,000+ members of Mayhem are still people with feelings and what not (you know, emotion?). This is not Peewee's Playhouse where a "I am like rubber and you are like glue...." mentality exists. If you come here and throw negatives out to people, be prepared to take the blunt end of the stick. You play with the bull you get the horns. Baby im done with this disscusion, please move on
thanx YOU and good night
Model
Brandon Smith
Posts: 1562
San Diego, California, US
Thuy Anh wrote:
man if i played with the bull i would have hamburger patties ready to grill LOL i'm hungry right now if you couldn't tell. LOL Texans... always making it about the beef ;-)
You know... In-N-Out here in Cali stays open so late... best late night burgers!
Model
Brandon Smith
Posts: 1562
San Diego, California, US
mica2326 wrote:
Baby im done with this disscusion, please move on
thanx YOU and good night Please do not call me Baby.
Photographer
Mann Made Imagery
Posts: 5281
Lubbock, Texas, US
Brandon Smith wrote:
Texans... always making it about the beef ;-)
You know... In-N-Out here in Cali stays open so late... best late night burgers! which part of cali? cause i was in the LA area for a while over the winter and i have family in northern cali. 
Model
mica2326
Posts: 46
Miami Beach, Florida, US
Meg 784 wrote:
I have to say [maybe because i'm terrible at Internet communication too, lol] but I do understand all of what you're saying. I do also understand how some can take things the wrong way so you do have to watch what you say or how you word things.
Your original topic is about how a photographer flaked on you. Staying with that topic what it really comes down to is, when it's the photographer bailing out on a model the model doesn't lose much if anything. Sure you could've planned something else for during that time but at least you didn't have a problem like so many other models on here who do the shoot then never see their images. It was free and you didn't lose any promised images so it's more of a cut your losses deal. When a model flakes on a photographer it is a bit different. Many photographers here do photography for a living so a model flaking on them is lost money for them. Even if it was a TFP/CD shoot the photographer could've spent that time doing a shoot with another model or family, etc, that they could be paid for. There are some photographers who do it as a hobby and in those cases one flaking on the other is rather equal in losses so one really can't compare. Either side has every right to complain when felt done wrong. This just got turned around somewhere and became way off topic. I agree, thanks for seeing the reality...I've had it all happen, after awhile it just gets exhausting...I'm new and on time, which i think is a big shock to the ones who have bailed, their loss...nite
Model
Brandon Smith
Posts: 1562
San Diego, California, US
Thuy Anh wrote:
which part of cali? cause i was in the LA area for a while over the winter and i have family in northern cali. We've got two here in Oceanside. One is about 3 miles from the house. If I recall correctly they're open until 1 or 2 am on the weekends. LA should have a few... I think they're predominately a SoCali kinda thing though.
Photographer
Mann Made Imagery
Posts: 5281
Lubbock, Texas, US
Brandon Smith wrote:
We've got two here in Oceanside. One is about 3 miles from the house. If I recall correctly they're open until 1 or 2 am on the weekends. LA should have a few... I think they're predominately a SoCali kinda thing though. oh ok, i last time i was there i was renting an apartment but it was so worth it. lol i'll have to stop by that place.
Model
Brandon Smith
Posts: 1562
San Diego, California, US
Thuy Anh wrote:
oh ok, i last time i was there i was renting an apartment but it was so worth it. lol i'll have to stop by that place. Well if you're ever in the San Diego area let me know and we'll have to go get one together! I can never pass one up :-)
Photographer
Mann Made Imagery
Posts: 5281
Lubbock, Texas, US
Brandon Smith wrote:
Well if you're ever in the San Diego area let me know and we'll have to go get one together! I can never pass one up :-) oh awesome! yeah i'll send you a message if i get to come to that area, i'm usually in LA or Sacramento when i'm there though.
Model
Brandon Smith
Posts: 1562
San Diego, California, US
Thuy Anh wrote:
oh awesome! yeah i'll send you a message if i get to come to that area, i'm usually in LA or Sacramento when i'm there though. Let me know when you're in SoCali... I am all over the place from time to time so you never know if I'm going to be in the LA area :-)
Photographer
Mann Made Imagery
Posts: 5281
Lubbock, Texas, US
Brandon Smith wrote:
Let me know when you're in SoCali... I am all over the place from time to time so you never know if I'm going to be in the LA area :-) okie dokie
Photographer
Risqe Factor
Posts: 112
Los Angeles, California, US
Having bi-passed the majority of the discussion to get directly to the point of your question - set standards for yourself. If it's a TFP shoot, then do more than just email back and forth, if they can't call you back, as I have found in my experience with models, no call, they probably won't show if they're really that busy (haha). If you're setting up a location that costs, setup the location yourself (make the reservation), but if they don't finalize within 48 hours, cancel the reservation (as most places will still charge you if you cancel under that time limit), contact them to let them know that you cancelled the reservation due to non-response and give them a chance to explain. If it takes more than a week for a reply (and they're not on vacation or traveling), don't reschedule with them! Don't setup shoots with photographers who don't have good portfolios and references that you can contact for yourself to see if they are reliable.
This holds true for photographers as well, when dealing with models. Check the person out first, find out if you can depend on them - if the jury comes back less than 80% positive, then you know to just move on to someone else.
I hope that answers your question, and that you just set limits for yourself as far as what you'll accept and "deal with" so that you don't find yourself repeatedly in this situation.
Photographer
Archived
Posts: 13509
Phoenix, Arizona, US
this thread should be locked.
Photographer
CreativeSandBoxStudio
Posts: 1984
London, England, United Kingdom
mica2326 wrote:
constantly photographers contact me then bail out...if we schedule a shoot then follow threw, is that too much to ask ? ? ? Someone please help me understand this... I try to break the "unreliable model" stigma but in return all I get are these BS photographers who make me sometimes want to leave the industry... First, those that you speak about do not do this as their full time job and understanding management skills beyond shooting is not something they think of. For most of us that shoot full time, it's understanding the business side of this industry beyong the glamour which so many think this industry is about. I tell newbies and others the smallest amount of stuff I do is click the shutter. There are endlenss days of on the phone with clients, scouting locations to billing matters and even with a staff I wish there were 72hours in a day myself, then sleep! SO don't be upset when you have to listen to models that don't understand the time that they say they will send images on CD to them. If you shoot endless amounts of images and don't understans the time to edit and find the images that are of the most importance it becomes endless hours of editing....it's a waste of time or is that time management.
Photographer
hallopino
Posts: 666
Palatine, Illinois, US
I've been off doing my own thing for a while, with out really being part of the 'community' online or otherwise.
I've never had a model miss a shoot, and I've never been even late for a shoot.
It makes me sad to hear about this.
Photographer
Christopher Hartman
Posts: 54196
Buena Park, California, US
Brandon Smith wrote:
Lets not start that "who is more important" argument... no one wins and even still I've yet to see a photographer vs. model jell-o wrestling match to find a winner. I'll take that challenge!!
Wait...do I get to pick to the model?
Photographer
commart
Posts: 6078
Hagerstown, Maryland, US
Wow. Look at this puppy go!
Mica--stand your ground.
A deal's a deal or should be. Flaking's about character on both the low and high sides: too stoned to show up--who needs it? too busy to keep a straight calendar--who needs that too?
I'll side with those who interpret flaking as an adminsitrative problem: yes, check out the person with whom you're supposed to work; get the shooting where, when, and how settled quickly; set a call and confirm date ahead of the shoot--no confirmation, no shoot: at least you'll be able to rescue the slot.
Realpolitik in motivation: the male fashion state I've heard--6'0-2(4)", 40-42(44), 32-34 with the numbers in parenthesis on the outside of the boundary. I don't know the field well enough but know there are exceptions involving specific designers (like Hedi Slimane) and probably publication venues. For commercial work, the ability to act without words counts, and some of that has to come through the comp card shots. Kick those two industry bins out of the way, and you're left with art, health/fitness, and glamour. From the perspective of male models whose stats or temperament lay outside of fashion and commercial broadcast and print work, it's going to take a different sort of artist than the run of GWC's ISO GWS's to shoot real good in TFCD .
Photographer
Glamour1 Studio
Posts: 1279
Baltimore, Maryland, US
constantly photographers contact me then bail out...if we schedule a shoot then follow threw, is that too much to ask ? ? ? Someone please help me understand this... I try to break the "unreliable model" stigma but in return all I get are these BS photographers who make me sometimes want to leave the industry...
Welcome to the Industry . . . . LOL ! ! !
We all have had our experiences . . . . LOL ! ! !
If I talked about the models on the other hand . . .
I would be going on and on and on . . . . .
Stories after stories . . .Bashing after bashing !
So I don't !
Why should I rob myself of the beauty that today brings by giving other people power thet don't have !
Find the good in everything and keep moving forward ! Peace!
DJ
Photographer
Christopher Hartman
Posts: 54196
Buena Park, California, US
mica2326 wrote:
well i have realized what i need to know...not that i didn't know it in the first place.
If all people are going to do is critic my work i guess i should of posted on that forum...!
Once again.............without photographers I couldn't do what i do, I respect them, but when you confirm a shoot an hour prior and there is no one at the studio there is a problem, that is what this discussion is about, not who's better. I thought this was a discussion board not a bitch session? Sorry for mentioning flakey people! Isn't that how your initial post started? A bitch session about photographers that flake?
And, now that you have provided more information...such as confirming an HOUR before the shoot only to find an empty studio...yeah, that's just wrong, unprofessional, and completely sucks ass.
Photographer
Christopher Hartman
Posts: 54196
Buena Park, California, US
Thuy Anh wrote:
which part of cali? cause i was in the LA area for a while over the winter and i have family in northern cali. Thuy, ALL OVER CA. In fact, I believe they only have ONE restaurant outside of CA and that would be in Las Vegas. But otherwise, they all over...not like McDonald's all over, but they are plentiful. Next time you're in LA, I'll treat...but I'll need references to make sure you're not dangerous. Then again, we could invite Brandon so he can distract you while I change all your camera settings
Model
mica2326
Posts: 46
Miami Beach, Florida, US
Thanx to everyone for helping me understand this community...I definately got some insight!!!
AdamS.
Model
mica2326
Posts: 46
Miami Beach, Florida, US
Thanx to everyone for helping me understand this community...I definately got some insight!!!
AdamS.
Photographer
Greg Rice
Posts: 550
Saint Peters, Missouri, US
Incident Image wrote:
Um, learn the biz. Clients pay models, not photographers. you HIRE photographers if u are shooting for your book. Stop whining. I concur!!!
Model
Claire Elizabeth
Posts: 1550
Exton, Pennsylvania, US
All types bail out-models, photogs, muas, stylists, etc. It happens. Its part of the business. Brush yourself off and move on.
Model
Claire Elizabeth
Posts: 1550
Exton, Pennsylvania, US
All types bail out-models, photogs, muas, stylists, etc. It happens. Its part of the business. Brush yourself off and move on.
Model
Claire Elizabeth
Posts: 1550
Exton, Pennsylvania, US
All types bail out-models, photogs, muas, stylists, etc. It happens. Its part of the business. Brush yourself off and move on.
Model
A BRITT PRO-AM
Posts: 7840
CARDIFF BY THE SEA, California, US
be gald u r a guy
ha ha
a gal preparing for a shoot that never happened might include
the time of hours in the bathroom tweezing and bleaching and teasing and squeezing
and expense of
nails done
hair done
waxing
fake tan . . .
then there are those lip injections
lol
Photographer
Tony Lawrence
Posts: 21528
Chicago, Illinois, US
mica2326 wrote:
Thanx to everyone for helping me understand this community...I definately got some insight!!!
AdamS. I haven't read all the posts on this subject but I will say this, if you are being
contacted by photographers who aren't following through they are wrong and there
are no excuses. How many times do models ask for TFP shoots and then flake?
Its as wrong that way too. We must treat each other with respect and dignity.
As a photographer don't offer shoots you really have no plans to follow through on.
Same goes for models.
Photographer
Lindsay A. Moleirinho
Posts: 409
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
mica2326 wrote:
I guess people forgot models have to make a living too...you get paid from companies and them what do we get? Yes i shoot tfp currently, but you are getting the opportunity to shoot me and what then...i don't EVER see photographers trying to pay a model, yet you all are so damanding. I guess they forgot that w/o a model they don't have a job!!! I agree models need to make a living also, and there are ways of getting paid.
You say that we get paid by companies??? Well I know that I don't, I make my living doing freelance work, and if a company hires me they must compensate the models and everyone else involved too.
I would not pay a model unless I was getting paid also.
As for TFP/cd you can't possibly expect us to pay models, when we have to take all the cost for the shoot as well.
I have said this so many times now, EQUIPTMENT, STUDIO SPACE, POST PRODUCTION ETC....
THis stuff is EXPENSIVE!
I would like to see models help and pay for atleast half the cost of a TFP/Cd shoot.
And as soon as a photographer mentions cost, that when models seemed to bail out.
You say ("I guess they forgot that w/o a model they don't have a job!!!" )
Well it goes both ways!!!
P.s In my comment here I am not referring to all models, I have worked with many great models with no problems, So don't take anything personal!
Model
mica2326
Posts: 46
Miami Beach, Florida, US
Anjel Britt wrote:
be gald u r a guy
ha ha
a gal preparing for a shoot that never happened might include
the time of hours in the bathroom tweezing and bleaching and teasing and squeezing
and expense of
nails done
hair done
waxing
fake tan . . .
then there are those lip injections
lol lololololololol omg you crazy girl, love it
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