Incident Image wrote:
Are you paying for these shoots?  Im sure the photogs won't flake if you HIRE them.

Remember... shoot for free... and you get what you pay for.

I guess people forgot models have to make a living too...you get paid from companies and them what do we get? Yes i shoot tfp currently, but you are getting the opportunity to shoot me and what then...i don't EVER see photographers trying to pay a model, yet you all are so damanding. I guess they forgot that w/o a model they don't have a job!!!

Brandon Smith wrote:
Blah blah blah... Really guys... the Photog/Model flaked threads.... We've had SOOOO many that it isn't funny.

One word... Professionalism.  Most people get it, some people don't.

Well i guess i'm just not use to it, usually the people I deal with are extremely professional and I don't have an issue. Only recently am i experiencing this problem.

mica2326 wrote:

I guess people forgot models have to make a living too...you get paid from companies and them what do we get? Yes i shoot tfp currently, but you are getting the opportunity to shoot me and what then...i don't EVER see photographers trying to pay a model, yet you all are so damanding. I guess they forgot that w/o a model they don't have a job!!!

Um, learn the biz.  Clients pay models, not photographers.  you HIRE photographers if u are shooting for your book.  Stop whining.

mica2326 wrote:
I guess they forgot that w/o a model they don't have a job!!!

Without the photographer you have a portfolio of webcam/cam phone shots, shots of your reflection in mirrors,etc.

mica2326 wrote:
constantly photographers contact me then bail out...if we schedule a shoot then follow threw, is that too much to ask ? ? ? Someone please help me understand this... I try to break the "unreliable model" stigma but in return all I get are these BS photographers who make me sometimes want to leave the industry...

It's a pity we don't live near each other...most of the guys I've tried to set up shoots with are really, flakey.  I have some new guys interested but it won't happen for another weekend or two.

mica2326 wrote:

Well i guess i'm just not use to it, usually the people I deal with are extremely professional and I don't have an issue. Only recently am i experiencing this problem.

What I'm say though is that the group as a whole complains about the situation so much on MM that it gets to be a bit of a headache.  I apologize for being so "bitchy" so to speak... I didn't mean to be... Truce?

mica2326 wrote:
constantly photographers contact me then bail out...if we schedule a shoot then follow threw, is that too much to ask ? ? ? Someone please help me understand this... I try to break the "unreliable model" stigma but in return all I get are these BS photographers who make me sometimes want to leave the industry...

DUDE stop privately emailing me... u dont like that I have to say, tough.  But I make a living as a professional photographer... when you make a living as a professional model, then we'll talk.

Glamour Boulevard wrote:

Without the photographer you have a portfolio of webcam/cam phone shots, shots of your reflection in mirrors,etc.

i respect photographers, without them we couldn't get work done...but in all respect w/o us its the same...my topic was about cheesy people bailing out...some how this has become a bash the model session

Incident Image wrote:

DUDE stop privately emailing me... u dont like that I have to say, tough.  But I make a living as a professional photographer... when you make a living as a professional model, then we'll talk.

This is the type of photographer that NO ONE wants to work with...I shoot pictures not porn...!

mica2326 wrote:

i respect photographers, without them we couldn't get work done...but in all respect w/o us its the same...my topic was about cheesy people bailing out...some how this has become a bash the model session

No no... its become a repeat of something that is constantly said.  Unfortunately you're going to have some flakey people out there.  Models deal with it, Photographers deal with it.  You live and move on and find someone better to do the job.

mica2326 wrote:
This is the type of photographer that NO ONE wants to work with...I shoot pictures not porn...!

You call his stuff porn?You really have had a sheltered life.

mica2326 wrote:

This is the type of photographer that NO ONE wants to work with...I shoot pictures not porn...!

LMAO!  porn wouldnt want you.  then again, who would?

mica2326 wrote:

i respect photographers, without them we couldn't get work done...but in all respect w/o us its the same...my topic was about cheesy people bailing out...some how this has become a bash the model session

Just like I have always said, if ya can`t handle Simon, don`t get on the stage

Glamour Boulevard wrote:

You call his stuff porn?You really have had a sheltered life.

I totally agree... I looked at his portfolio just to see and if that is porn than I must be living in a Amish village.

Glamour Boulevard wrote:

Just like I have always said, if ya can`t handle Simon, don`t get on the stage

Newbie poster syndrome....

mica2326 wrote:
This is the type of photographer that NO ONE wants to work with...I shoot pictures not porn...!

And I'm sure that crotch shot of yours qualifies you to be holier than thou.

Brandon Smith wrote:

Newbie poster syndrome....

I do hope you mean him

Glamour Boulevard wrote:

You call his stuff porn?You really have had a sheltered life.

Incident Image you really need to clean it up. Those vaginal shots are killing me

mica2326 wrote:

i respect photographers, without them we couldn't get work done...but in all respect w/o us its the same...my topic was about cheesy people bailing out...some how this has become a bash the model session

I don't want to bash what models do.  There is talent out there.  But let's be honest.  It's easier to model than to take a good photo.  I often see works from photographers using people who have never modeled before and the stuff is amazing.  How many very skilled/experienced models can go out and pick some dude at the mall, hand them a camera and get a good photo?

So who really needs who the most?

mica2326 wrote:
They have to much attitude and really have no reason to be that way. I'm not pretentious, but most on this site are!!!
Sorry to say

Hello, Pot. My name is Kettle

mica2326 wrote:
you know....i live far from a sheltered life, but at the same time where is the class in photography ? ? ? all i see are girls with their chests pushed out...People on this site are very unprofessional...look at my orginal post, it was about flaky people. this is why alot of models don't like the photographers. They have to much attitude and really have no reason to be that way. I'm not pretentious, but most on this site are!!!
Sorry to say

We're not bashing models. We're only bashing you. Stop making generalizations. It's making you look bad.

mica2326 wrote:

I guess people forgot models have to make a living too...you get paid from companies and them what do we get? Yes i shoot tfp currently, but you are getting the opportunity to shoot me and what then...i don't EVER see photographers trying to pay a model, yet you all are so damanding. I guess they forgot that w/o a model they don't have a job!!!

Seems like you're not ready for the world of photography.  In this business, everyone will be demanding. Agency's will demand photos, clients will demand you be on time, etc., and photographers will be demanding so that the final shots they provide you or the agency are as perfect as they can get.  That often requires that models listen to the photographer (or, if you work well with a photographer, then the two of you work as a team).

If you want to break into this business, then get used to agents or clients cancelling on you (they will determine which is more important: you or another client), of them being demanding, and of everyone pushing and shoving to get the right shot for the right project.

I sense that you got stood up by a photographer.  How many photographers were there to shoot with you when you began to put your portfolio together?  How many flaked out on you?  Which category is more?  If photographers are flaking out on you, are you sure you're a model that they really want to shoot?  I've had some lose cannon-models want shoot and we're a tight group (photographers) and I refused to work with them based on their reputation.  Make sure you don't have a similar reputation.  Some models and photographers get a reputation without realizing what they're doing.

My advice: always call the photographer (not an email) and confirm the shoot the day before the shoot.  Sometimes photographers double book as there are also falky models who don't show up.  Be proactive and call ahead (just like you would an airline to see if the plane hasn't been cancelled).

Best of luck, Tim at Portland Filmworks

mica2326 wrote:

i respect photographers, without them we couldn't get work done...but in all respect w/o us its the same...my topic was about cheesy people bailing out...some how this has become a bash the model session

Actually, we don't need models. Some of us shoot entirely commercial work - items (no models required).  It certainly pays more than glamour/fashion photography. /Tim

VirtuaMike wrote:

We're not bashing models. We're only bashing you. Stop making generalizations. It's making you look bad.

Exactly...why would I bash myself?  And wait... doesn't Mica2326 have a chest baring shot in his portfolio? 

Mica doll.... only speak for yourself, don't bring the rest of the models into it.  The response I've garnered from MM has been great so far, many talentend photographers who each have their own speciality of work.  Models not only don't like bad photographers, but we also hate other models who give those of us who aren't pretentious nutcases a bad name.

JM Dean wrote:

Incident Image you really need to clean it up. Those vaginal shots are killing me

thank you... yes i have a crotch shot but it is somewhat classy, is not me pushing it up or holding it, like some other pictures i have seen around

mica2326 wrote:
you know....i live far from a sheltered life, but at the same time where is the class in photography ? ? ? all i see are girls with their chests pushed out.

https://www.modelmayhem.com/pics.php?id=105890

Hmmm...well, considering the way you've posed, I think you're confusion is this;  girls have breasts.  Men don't(usually).  I imagine to some, the breasts may give the illusion that they are sticking their chest out on purpose.  When really, it's just something quite natural because they have mounds of flesh attached to their chests.

DigitalCMH wrote:

I don't want to bash what models do.  There is talent out there.  But let's be honest.  It's easier to model than to take a good photo.  I often see works from photographers using people who have never modeled before and the stuff is amazing.  How many very skilled/experienced models can go out and pick some dude at the mall, hand them a camera and get a good photo?

So who really needs who the most?

we both need eachother, thats why i don't understand why photographers like to crap on models...? I r

mica2326 wrote:
constantly photographers contact me then bail out...if we schedule a shoot then follow threw, is that too much to ask ? ? ? Someone please help me understand this... I try to break the "unreliable model" stigma but in return all I get are these BS photographers who make me sometimes want to leave the industry...

i model as well as do photography.  there are the same number of photographers that bail as there are models.  it's part of the industry.  if you want quality pictures and a client of either part of the project to show up and be assured they will show up then PAY THEM. if it is a free shoot they can and will bail if they must. the number one reason why photographers bail is if the shoot is free and they just happened to get to book a better model or a paying model. that is also one of the number one reasons why models bail too. except in most cases i've found models usually bail because something came up.  i've only had 1 model bail on me and i've had a few rescedule.  i've also had photographers bail on me because they happened to get paying clients so those clients have a higher priority than me and they will reschedule if they really want to work with you.

DigitalCMH wrote:

I don't want to bash what models do.  There is talent out there.  But let's be honest.  It's easier to model than to take a good photo.  I often see works from photographers using people who have never modeled before and the stuff is amazing.  How many very skilled/experienced models can go out and pick some dude at the mall, hand them a camera and get a good photo?

So who really needs who the most?

we both need eachother, thats why i don't understand why photographers like to crap on models...? I respect photographers, they just don't respect models!

mica2326 wrote:
I respect photographers, they just don't respect models!

Do you really not understand that by saying this, you're disrespecting photographers?

DigitalCMH wrote:
Hmmm...well, considering the way you've posed, I think you're confusion is this;  girls have breasts.  Men don't(usually).  I imagine to some, the breasts may give the illusion that they are sticking their chest out on purpose.  When really, it's just something quite natural because they have mounds of flesh attached to their chests.

You're wrong Chris - breasts don't perk themselves. All models know that breasts must be massaged by yours truly in order to attain peak shootability. I call it my magic touch. Go spirit fingers go!!!!

mica2326 wrote:

we both need eachother, thats why i don't understand why photographers like to crap on models...? I r

Interesting, but a deflecting statement. It was you who crapped on photographers, not the other way around. Who started this post? /Tim

mica2326 wrote:
we both need eachother, thats why i don't understand why photographers like to crap on models...? I respect photographers, they just don't respect models!

Your initial post crapped photographers.  You essentially asked us what is OUR problem and why do we keep standing you up.

And, you made yet another generalization.

You respect photographers but accuse us of not respecting models.  I have a ton of respect for models.  Certainly more than I did before I started.  Many are college educated and a lot smarter than I am.  And, I make my girls WORK.  I put them in freezing cold water (unless they really really can't handle it, I prefer happy models), pose awkardly on sharp rocks, etc.  And you should experience the walk back to the parking lot from my beach location.  They get a nice work out for their calves, that's for sure!

mica2326 wrote:

we both need eachother, thats why i don't understand why photographers like to crap on models...? I respect photographers, they just don't respect models!

Gross Overgeneralizations.... When did this become about everybody?  Why not just take it up with the photographer who flaked on you instead of bashing the photographers of MM?

VirtuaMike wrote:

You're wrong Chris - breasts don't perk themselves. All models know that breasts must be massaged by yours truly in order to attain peak shootability. I call it my magic touch. Go spirit fingers go!!!!

As friendly and even flirtatious as my girls are, I have a feeling I'd be missing a nut or two if I attempted any breast massage   Damn I hate you!  When I come up to SF, I may have to watch you work

mica2326 wrote:

we both need eachother, thats why i don't understand why photographers like to crap on models...? I respect photographers, they just don't respect models!

sweetheart that is not true at all.  photographers respect models but you don't seem very respectful at all right now and you expect a good photographer to feel sympathy for you right now? i don't think so.  what DCMH said is true, a good photographer can take anyone and make them gorgeous, a model can not make a photographers work automatically hot on the market. heck, for me if a model bails i will schedule someone else immediately with a similar look to shoot because i do not waste my time. if that model reschedules i will come up with a different concept for them unless i can not find anyone else with their look. that's simply it.  photographers build a skill with the use of equiptment and tools.  a model will model, a model is poseable, a model can follow direction, but it is the photographer's eye that captures the moment. understand that.