mica2326 wrote:
Yes i shoot tfp currently, but you are getting the opportunity to shoot me and what then

Put away the ego and try to figure this one out. If you were so damn hot you would have a queue of Photogs lining up for you, not cancelling you. Ask yourself if you are really soo much better than any other model to be able to honestly say that !

DigitalCMH wrote:

As friendly and even flirtatious as my girls are, I have a feeling I'd be missing a nut or two if I attempted any breast massage   Damn I hate you!  When I come up to SF, I may have to watch you work

I don't think your girls seem to have any problems.... keep up the good work :-)

Thuy Anh wrote:

a good photographer can take anyone and make them gorgeous, a model can not make a photographers work automatically hot on the market.

Lets not start that "who is more important" argument... no one wins and even still I've yet to see a photographer vs. model jell-o wrestling match to find a winner.

Tim Baker wrote:

Seems like you're not ready for the world of photography.  In this business, everyone will be demanding. Agency's will demand photos, clients will demand you be on time, etc., and photographers will be demanding so that the final shots they provide you or the agency are as perfect as they can get.  That often requires that models listen to the photographer (or, if you work well with a photographer, then the two of you work as a team).

If you want to break into this business, then get used to agents or clients cancelling on you (they will determine which is more important: you or another client), of them being demanding, and of everyone pushing and shoving to get the right shot for the right project.

I sense that you got stood up by a photographer.  How many photographers were there to shoot with you when you began to put your portfolio together?  How many flaked out on you?  Which category is more?  If photographers are flaking out on you, are you sure you're a model that they really want to shoot?  I've had some lose cannon-models want shoot and we're a tight group (photographers) and I refused to work with them based on their reputation.  Make sure you don't have a similar reputation.  Some models and photographers get a reputation without realizing what they're doing.

My advice: always call the photographer (not an email) and confirm the shoot the day before the shoot.  Sometimes photographers double book as there are also falky models who don't show up.  Be proactive and call ahead (just like you would an airline to see if the plane hasn't been cancelled).

Best of luck, Tim at Portland Filmworks

thanx, I do my best to be as professional as possible, always calling prior to confirm. I wouldn't cancel w/o prior notice or a really good reason. I guess I don't really know the industry like I thought?

DigitalCMH wrote:
As friendly and even flirtatious as my girls are, I have a feeling I'd be missing a nut or two if I attempted any breast massage   Damn I hate you!  When I come up to SF, I may have to watch you work

I can see it now.

"Hey baby, now don't get shocked. I promised I'd show Chris my super ultra technique."

Bangerman wrote:

Put away the ego and try to figure this one out. If you were so damn hot you would have a queue of Photogs lining up for you, not cancelling you. Ask yourself if you are really soo much better than any other model to be able to honestly say that !

never once, I just think that in all respect if your shooting me, your getting something out of it too? right?

mica2326 wrote:
thank you... yes i have a crotch shot but it is somewhat classy, is not me pushing it up or holding it, like some other pictures i have seen around

I'm not trying to bash you here.  I appreciate the reason you started this thread.  But I'd like to make a couple of points, if I may:

- Don't blast other peoples work by calling it porn. You're inviting criticism of your own work. Your current portfolio contains an image that you labelled 18+ which, for some reason, you call classy. To each their own, but its kind of hard to take that sort of a position seriously.  Its a crotch shot, friend.  The fact that its has the old photoshop selective color treatment on its doesn't make it art.

- To your original point, yes there are photographers out there that are flakey. But I can't help but wonder if the way you conduct yourself here is indicative of the reason that these shoots are cancelling all of a sudden?  Its probably not fair of me to say, but seriously - I'm not getting a 'hey I'm really great to work with' kind of vibe from you.  Having a lean body does not alone make you a model.  You have to be good to work with or you'll get nowhere. 

- Its hard for male models to get serious traction here.  Most of the photographers are male, and their primary subject of interest is female.  Thats the way it is.  This means you have to work harder to get noticed. (friendly tip - more than one facial expression in your portfolio would help a LOT).

- Don't shit where you eat.

Brandon Smith wrote:
Lets not start that "who is more important" argument... no one wins and even still I've yet to see a photographer vs. model jell-o wrestling match to find a winner.

lol i model and do photography, i know how it is on both sides of the lense. unlike most.

mica2326 wrote:

thanx, I do my best to be as professional as possible, always calling prior to confirm. I wouldn't cancel w/o prior notice or a really good reason. I guess I don't really know the industry like I thought?

I think alot of it comes down to attitude and impression.  Mica, the impression you gave alot of people here tonight was extremely disrespectful.  And for that you've probably pissed away a few good contacts with some veteran members of MM, people who've seen way more of the industry than you've been a part of yet.  If this is something that you're ok with connotating to the modeling world so to speak than so be it but I guarantee you'll not survive.  Play nice and you'll get farther.  As I said before..... Professionalism... Some people get it some people don't.  Rather than venting and being disrespectful, move on and get over it.

Brandon Smith wrote:
I think alot of it comes down to attitude and impression.  Mica, the impression you gave alot of people here tonight was extremely disrespectful.  And for that you've probably pissed away a few good contacts with some veteran members of MM, people who've seen way more of the industry than you've been a part of yet.  If this is something that you're ok with connotating to the modeling world so to speak than so be it but I guarantee you'll not survive.  Play nice and you'll get farther.  As I said before..... Professionalism... Some people get it some people don't.  Rather than venting and being disrespectful, move on and get over it.

you put that really well, i don't think any of us in here did that very well. thank you. that is the impression that he did eminate and it's a shame too. bridges were definitely burned.

Thuy Anh wrote:

lol i model and do photography, i know how it is on both sides of the lense. unlike most.

I never said you didn't.... just not an argument that anyone wins no matter how much experience any one person has on either side of the lens.

Brandon Smith wrote:

I think alot of it comes down to attitude and impression.  Mica, the impression you gave alot of people here tonight was extremely disrespectful.  And for that you've probably pissed away a few good contacts with some veteran members of MM, people who've seen way more of the industry than you've been a part of yet.  If this is something that you're ok with connotating to the modeling world so to speak than so be it but I guarantee you'll not survive.  Play nice and you'll get farther.  As I said before..... Professionalism... Some people get it some people don't.  Rather than venting and being disrespectful, move on and get over it.

I guess the "general disscusion forum" isn't for talking about things
sorry for making you all mad, oh well...good night

Thuy Anh wrote:

you put that really well, i don't think any of us in here did that very well. thank you. that is the impression that he did eminate and it's a shame too. bridges were definitely burned.

Anytime :-)  If it helps.... you guys out there are great!  I've loved most every moment here on MM with the photogs and models (and heck... I FINALLY get to meet Kevlar Girl soon! HEHE)

mica2326 wrote:

I guess the "general disscusion forum" isn't for talking about things
sorry for making you all mad, oh well...good night

Oh it is... it just isn't for a generalized bash of people.  Remember that this is a PUBLIC forum... what you post has the potential to be read by a great many people.  Impressions.... just keep that in mind next time.

Brandon Smith wrote:

Oh it is... it just isn't for a generalized bash of people.  Remember that this is a PUBLIC forum... what you post has the potential to be read by a great many people.  Impressions.... just keep that in mind next time.

I dont ever remember saying anything about you? I remember a photographer who got very nasty that I said something to but, you had nothing to do with it....Once again...I was talking about one thing and it got all twisted into something else...everyone stop bashing everyone, and get back to the orignal subject...but now i know so we all can just go our seperate ways...people are flakey and rude, yes i know...i am a very upfront person, unlike most...if you don't like what i have to say im sorry

Brandon Smith wrote:

Anytime :-)  If it helps.... you guys out there are great!  I've loved most every moment here on MM with the photogs and models (and heck... I FINALLY get to meet Kevlar Girl soon! HEHE)

lol i think we can see that, lol you have like double the number of posts than me and you joined after me, lol

mica2326 wrote:

I dont ever remember saying anything about you? I remember a photographer who got very nasty that I said something to but, you had nothing to do with it....Once again...I was talking about one thing and it got all twisted into something else...everyone stop bashing everyone, and get back to the orignal subject...but now i know so we all can just go our seperate ways...people are flakey and rude, yes i know...i am a very upfront person, unlike most...if you don't like what i have to say im sorry

Do you stand up for your friends?  I do.  Without many of the people on this site I couldn't even begin to sit here and talk about modeling.  They've helped me out in so many uncountable ways so when someone comes around and disrespects a great deal of people in one fell swoop you sure as heck can guarantee I'm going to jump right in the ring with them.  No one is bashing each other.... we're giving you the wrath of your original statement. 

Lets talk about how it got twisted... First you disrespected the photographers of MM...then you called someones work porn ....then you brought up the model vs. photographer importance argument.  Really.... I haven't seen this many Pandora's boxes opened since BCG was let back into the flock :-)

Just keep an eye on your words and pick your battles more carefully and you'll get a much more pleasant response.

Thuy Anh wrote:

lol i think we can see that, lol you have like double the number of posts than me and you joined after me, lol

It all went downhill when Alan started a post about Ramen... from that point forward I've been hooked....

mica2326 wrote:

I dont ever remember saying anything about you? I remember a photographer who got very nasty that I said something to but, you had nothing to do with it....Once again...I was talking about one thing and it got all twisted into something else...everyone stop bashing everyone, and get back to the orignal subject...but now i know so we all can just go our seperate ways...people are flakey and rude, yes i know...i am a very upfront person, unlike most...if you don't like what i have to say im sorry

he is saying that the your initial post was alright but the way you reply to people is completley unprofessional.  i read through your posts and they are filled with tones of angry sarcasm as well as a few others. which seem a bit immature in my opinion, like your posts about the critiquing of your port. many people on the site are hot headed but it doesn't mean you had to be.  especially being new to the industry and needing to make connections to get further in it. should have taken it with a grain of salt and got over it and then moved on.

Brandon Smith wrote:

It all went downhill when Alan started a post about Ramen... from that point forward I've been hooked....

AH HAHAHAHHAHAHA you can always count on him to make a post about something straight out of the blue, LOL

Thuy Anh wrote:

he is saying that the your initial post was alright but the way you reply to people is completley unprofessional.  i read through your posts and they are filled with tones of angry sarcasm as well as a few others. which seem a bit immature in my opinion, like your posts about the critiquing of your port. many people on the site are hot headed but it doesn't mean you had to be.  especially being new to the industry and needing to make connections to get further in it. should have taken it with a grain of salt and got over it and then moved on.

I second :-)  Way to go Thuy Ahn.

Brandon Smith wrote:

Do you stand up for your friends?  I do.  Without many of the people on this site I couldn't even begin to sit here and talk about modeling.  They've helped me out in so many uncountable ways so when someone comes around and disrespects a great deal of people in one fell swoop you sure as heck can guarantee I'm going to jump right in the ring with them.  No one is bashing each other.... we're giving you the wrath of your original statement. 

Lets talk about how it got twisted... First you disrespected the photographers of MM...then you called someones work porn ....then you brought up the model vs. photographer importance argument.  Really.... I haven't seen this many Pandora's boxes opened since BCG was let back into the flock :-)

Just keep an eye on your words and pick your battles more carefully and you'll get a much more pleasant response.

well i guess i started a fight with the wrong person? I was talking about photographers and you "a model" started yelling...read the original post, then continue from there...but as well you didn't see the nasty "PRIVATE" emails I got right from the start, after the disscusion starter? I was stating something I realized, I didn't realize everyone was so sensitive in a general forum, sorry for making all of you mad, but I was stating the truth on my end, that is it...END of disscusion (lo siento Brandon)

Thuy Anh wrote:

AH HAHAHAHHAHAHA you can always count on him to make a post about something straight out of the blue, LOL

Yeah I still can't believe that thread got so many posts..... I think it was around 350 or so at last count. :-)

mica2326 wrote:

well i guess i started a fight with the wrong person? I was talking about photographers and you "a model" started yelling...read the original post, then continue from there...but as well you didn't see the nasty "PRIVATE" emails I got right from the start, after the disscusion starter? I was stating something I realized, I didn't realize everyone was so sensitive in a general forum, sorry for making all of you mad, but I was stating the truth on my end, that is it...END of disscusion (lo siento Brandon)

Sensitive? I believe 'reactionary' when photographers see a model or anyone post a on the forum "Why are photographers so unreliable..."  I guess you wouldn't be bothered by a forum that said "Why are male models so egotistical and rude"?  /Tim

mica2326 wrote:

well i guess i started a fight with the wrong person? I was talking about photographers and you "a model" started yelling...read the original post, then continue from there...but as well you didn't see the nasty "PRIVATE" emails I got right from the start, after the disscusion starter? I was stating something I realized, I didn't realize everyone was so sensitive in a general forum, sorry for making all of you mad, but I was stating the truth on my end, that is it...END of disscusion (lo siento Brandon)

I will shhhh myself thank you :-) Sure you did... why would you expect anything else?  But of course, you obviously addressed the emails publicly rather than addressing them personally.  I mean, you did refer to one photographer's work as porn (which is highly subjective).  I just want to make certain that I drive home the point that if you want to be the embodiment of professional behavior, then you must realize that you're going to need to do it here too.  And yeah... you get people riled up, you're going to get the horns of the bull.  Get my drift?

Tim Baker wrote:

Sensitive? I believe 'reactionary' when photographers see a model or anyone post a on the forum "Why are photographers so unreliable..."  I guess you wouldn't be bothered by a forum that said "Why are male models so egotistical and rude"?  /Tim

Those were the words I was looking for :-) Thanks Tim!

Tim Baker wrote:

Sensitive? I believe 'reactionary' when photographers see a model or anyone post a on the forum "Why are photographers so unreliable..."  I guess you wouldn't be bothered by a forum that said "Why are male models so egotistical and rude"?  /Tim

sorry, I've had alot of unprofessionalism lately and didn't realize why...I guess its my personality

mica2326 wrote:

sorry, I've had alot of unprofessionalism lately and didn't realize why...I guess its my personality

and i wouldn't react with such anger...i would simply ask them why they felt that way...

mica2326 wrote:

sorry, I've had alot of unprofessionalism lately and didn't realize why...I guess its my personality

it's alright, it's just when you encounter a lot of unprofessionalism think of it like this.  this person is obviously unprofessional and it's better that i did not work with them because they will probably not benefit me.  there will always be someone else that i can work with that is better. that is how you should go about it.  this industry is filled with a lot of this kind of thing so you need to learn how to go about it in the correct way without bashing a whole group.

mica2326 wrote:

and i wouldn't react with such anger...i would simply ask them why they felt that way...

It is like walking into a bank and shouting "This is a stick up!".  The cop who arrests you isn't going to ask you how you feel.....

Thuy Anh wrote:

it's alright, it's just when you encounter a lot of unprofessionalism think of it like this.  this person is obviously unprofessional and it's better that i did not work with them because they will probably not benefit me.  there will always be someone else that i can work with that is better. that is how you should go about it.  this industry is filled with a lot of this kind of thing so you need to learn how to go about it in the correct way without bashing a whole group.

i didnt mean to bash a group, honestly people say things, not always directed to a group. yes i should of titled it "why are SOME photographers unprofessional" but i didn't, I didn't think people would be extremely emotional over a statement? Its 2006, calm down

mica2326 wrote:

i didnt mean to bash a group, honestly people say things, not always directed to a group. yes i should of titled it "why are SOME photographers unprofessional" but i didn't, I didn't think people would be extremely emotional over a statement? Its 2006, calm down

Here's a post on what photographers deal with all the time.  /Tim

https://modelmayhem.com/posts.php?thread_id=46204

mica2326 wrote:
i didnt mean to bash a group, honestly people say things, not always directed to a group. yes i should of titled it "why are SOME photographers unprofessional" but i didn't, I didn't think people would be extremely emotional over a statement? Its 2006, calm down

Lets refer to post #2 to the thread by Mica2326

I guess people forgot models have to make a living too...you get paid from companies and them what do we get? Yes i shoot tfp currently, but you are getting the opportunity to shoot me and what then...i don't EVER see photographers trying to pay a model, yet you all are so damanding I guess they forgot that w/o a model they don't have a job!!!

Bold = hot button statements which are going to get people riled up no matter how much you try to rename your thread.  The thread did not turn sour until you posted this fun little ditty.

Tim Baker wrote:

Here's a post on what photographers deal with all the time.  /Tim

https://modelmayhem.com/posts.php?thread_id=46204

and thats why im not that way...i know what you all go threw

mica2326 wrote:
thanx to some for finally getting back to the original disscusion...

Decided not to leave it.... I'm too nice :-)

mica2326 wrote:

i didnt mean to bash a group, honestly people say things, not always directed to a group. yes i should of titled it "why are SOME photographers unprofessional" but i didn't, I didn't think people would be extremely emotional over a statement? Its 2006, calm down

there it is again, that tone i was talking about earlier. you were good until you said "Its 2006, calm down".  people on here will take that as sarcasm and probably an inflated ego because they can not hear you, they do not know that you are joking or anything. also most people in this industry you will have to learn to hold your tongue because all over the first page it's like you let loose with a super ego.  people will not take that very well. so simply take most everything with a grain of salt.  especially if you are not talking to them in person or on the phone.  if you are only reading their words you need to choose carefully because different words have certain tones when people read them. i'm sorry if you had your first run in with tons of unprofessionalism, but the thing is just let it go, if the photographer is professional they will reschedule with you and apologize and if they don't then don't worry about it and find a different photographer.

Brandon Smith wrote:

Decided not to leave it.... I'm too nice :-)

I would just not like to keep running around in circles...I started a topic, it got all twisted and no matter what it just keeps coming back to you (being mad). I've tryed to say I'm sorry, and I've tried to get back to the original subject...SORRY, ay dios mio... good night

mica2326 wrote:
I would just not like to keep running around in circles...I started a topic, it got all twisted and no matter what it just keeps coming back to you (being mad). I've tryed to say I'm sorry, and I've tried to get back to the original subject...SORRY, ay dios mio... good night

Ms. Anh above quoted it more succintly than I did.  So I decided to retract my statement.  I'm not mad, I just like to have the last word (it is a weakness..... notice my post count?). 

But do get it straight, I've not made it about me.... I've faithfully continued to keep this topic about your mis-steps in this thread. :-)