Jessalyn wrote:
because how are the other members of MM to know that you aren't the one in the wrong? you could be bullshitting us and we wouldn't know. I'm not saying I don't believe you but there are 3 sides to every story, yours his and the truth.

And the truth isn't a member of MM so we never hear his/her side.

Jessalyn wrote:
because how are the other members of MM to know that you aren't the one in the wrong? you could be bullshitting us and we wouldn't know. I'm not saying I don't believe you but there are 3 sides to every story, yours his and the truth.

Good thought.

Kimberly R Walker wrote:
it's not fair........there are GWC's and photographers that just want to meet with you take your pic make you do pics that you dont' want to then keep the images for themselves and never hold up their end of the bargin.....this is why most models want escorts it makes it really bad for the good photographers who are out there.....

why can't they be warned in forums

as you can probably tell this has happened to me

First of all, how can a photographer "make" you do pics you don't want to do? Unless they physically hold you down, which is a crime, they cannot make you do anything. You shouldn't allow anyone to cajole or otherwise pressure you into doing something you have qualms about.

Second, you should NEVER work with anyone who doesn't sign a contract with you. The contract should state both your rights, and their rights. This protects you legally from the idiots and charalatans.

Now, to your original question - MM is legally protecting itself from slander and libel issues that might arise from differences of opinion.

Kimberly R Walker wrote:
it's not fair........there are GWC's and photographers that just want to meet with you take your pic make you do pics that you dont' want to then keep the images for themselves and never hold up their end of the bargin.....this is why most models want escorts it makes it really bad for the good photographers who are out there.....

why can't they be warned in forums

as you can probably tell this has happened to me

if a model has a bad experience he or she should put that member's number in their profile. same for photogs, stylists, etc.

However- you stating "and make you do pics that you don't want".....did the GWC hold a gun to your head?

Practice the word NO. Make communication clear before you shoot. Do your homework.

Don't call someone out on the forums or make a big deal of it. You'll only look foolish. I, personally, do not work with anyone that publicly calls someone out in a rude fashion...they only look bitter...not something I want to ever work with.

Look at someone's port- you should be able to tell if they flake or whatnot.

elisabeth eagle wrote:
I warned someone on a forum somewhere else and got deleted from there because I "had no proof". I think that for sake of everyones safety, people should be warned about fake models and fake photographers. I've worked with 2 unprofessional photographers, so I did not list that I've even worked with them. If a fellow model emails me about them, then I tell them the truth. I've also found several perverted models and photographers on here (this is the internet though) and I will never work with them.... but they seem well liked on this site so I think warning anyone is just a waste of time....
I wish I knew how to help you though.... I'm sorry that you had to go through a bad situation... you're not alone

That's what the CAM feature is for.  Contact a mod and get the fake photographer or model deleted.

Kimberly R Walker wrote:
make you do pics that you dont' want to

if you were forced to do anything against your will then you should call the local authorities, or at least report it to a moderator using the CAM form under Info.

Mia Salen wrote:

That's what the CAM feature is for.  Contact a mod and get the fake photographer or model deleted.

And guess what? thats why I left the first time... I contacted a mod here, then they had the nerve to get on the shout box, complain about my email and bash me... I had the proof from the emails, the IMs (which I blocked but somehow they would just come up with another screenname) it went on forever- it was 2 photographers and 2 models who did this on the yahoo messenger. But sometimes even telling mods doesn't help. I'm not meaning to argue- just stating what happened to me... and another fellow model.

elisabeth eagle wrote:

And guess what? thats why I left the first time... I contacted a mod here, then they had the nerve to get on the shout box, complain about my email and bash me... I had the proof from the emails, the IMs (which I blocked but somehow they would just come up with another screenname) it went on forever- it was 2 photographers and 2 models who did this on the yahoo messenger. But sometimes even telling mods doesn't help. I'm not meaning to argue- just stating what happened to me... and another fellow model.

I'm sorry that happened to you but that still does not give anyone the right to blast another person on the forums. We don't know every side to the story.

Trevor Snyder wrote:
Second, you should NEVER work with anyone who doesn't sign a contract with you. The contract should state both your rights, and their rights. This protects you legally from the idiots and charalatans.

Never, huh? Damn, there go all those agency tests.

Trevor Snyder wrote:
Now, to your original question - MM is legally protecting itself from slander and libel issues that might arise from differences of opinion.

Not so much. MM is quite protected by the law in this respect. MM is trying to establish a neutral place where such immaturity can be avoided (in favor of other kinds of immaturity, of course).

Kimberly R Walker wrote:
.....this is why most models want escorts .....

No. Most models want escorts because they are unprofessional and don't take this seriously.

You need a bodyguard? Hire a stylist for your shoots.

Jessalyn wrote:

I'm sorry that happened to you but that still does not give anyone the right to blast another person on the forums. We don't know every side to the story.

true which is why i kept quiet, except for telling the mods. I really thought this photographer would hurt or kill someone and they never did anything about it. He stole some of my pics, photoshopped them to where I was nude then emailed them to me, threatening me to either work with him or he'd post them online- I told him to go ahead I only wished I looked that good naked. The people I warned about someone was on another site- a model had asked about this certain photographer- I told her that he was fake, (several other people told her that too )they deleted me...

Tandango Images wrote:
Best thing to do is check references before you shoot with them.  Not that hard to do and should be considered part of preparing for a shoot just like mirror practice.

I like coming up with new, ugly faces in the mirror.  It's entertaining

Jessalyn wrote:
because how are the other members of MM to know that you aren't the one in the wrong? you could be bullshitting us and we wouldn't know. I'm not saying I don't believe you but there are 3 sides to every story, yours his and the truth.

jessalyn I would love to show you my proof....I am not in the wrong only thing i ever did wrong was TRUST HIM

Christopher Ambler wrote:

Trevor Snyder wrote:
Second, you should NEVER work with anyone who doesn't sign a contract with you. The contract should state both your rights, and their rights. This protects you legally from the idiots and charalatans.

Never, huh? Damn, there go all those agency tests.


Not so much. MM is quite protected by the law in this respect. MM is trying to establish a neutral place where such immaturity can be avoided (in favor of other kinds of immaturity, of course).

I wouldn't ever do a shoot without a signed contract. That's me. My rules. Other people are free to do whatever they want

As far as MM trying to avoid flamewars, well good luck to them I suppose loosely interpreted standards could be better than none at all...

Kimberly R Walker wrote:
this is why most models want escorts

I have never desired to use an escort, and I never have used an escort.

But I am just one model.

Kimberly R Walker wrote:

jessalyn I would love to show you my proof....I am not in the wrong only thing i ever did wrong was TRUST HIM

Then contact a mod with your proof.

Kimberly R Walker wrote:
you do have a ppoint of both sides to the story but for NEW models who does not know much we are trying to learn its only so much you can read I have proof.....and you are right NO ONE can make you do something but when you're shooting and you're new and you don't know everything and the photographer says well "try this" you trust him and you do

I'd like to introduce you to my friend, the comma.

Jessalyn wrote:
example: I have a photographer I worked with and he hadn't gotten my pictures to me after 3 months. come to find out that he just thought that since we lived in the same town that it was no big deal, that he thought he could just drop my CD off next time we shot together.

would it have been fair to blast him in the forums? no.

(ending to the story: he had ignored my emails to shoot again so I still don't have my pictures but that's besides the point. there was a misunderstanding)

I agree in that it was a misunderstanding but my situation is a bit different all I ever aksed for was a date and then he said I got to the end of the priority list.....and then I thought ok well maybe it was me but when other models contact me with the same problem what am I to think

Jessalyn wrote:

I have never desired to use an escort, and I never have used an escort.

But I am just one model.

I only use one when I'm too lazy to drive =/

Kimberly R Walker wrote:

jessalyn I would love to show you my proof....I am not in the wrong only thing i ever did wrong was TRUST HIM

like I said, I don't doubt that you are telling the truth.

the thing is, MM cannot make exceptions for some people. It is not their job to verify the validity of someones claim just so they can bash another person in the forums.

elisabeth eagle wrote:
I warned someone on a forum somewhere else and got deleted from there because I "had no proof". I think that for sake of everyones safety, people should be warned about fake models and fake photographers. I've worked with 2 unprofessional photographers, so I did not list that I've even worked with them. If a fellow model emails me about them, then I tell them the truth. I've also found several perverted models and photographers on here (this is the internet though) and I will never work with them.... but they seem well liked on this site so I think warning anyone is just a waste of time....
I wish I knew how to help you though.... I'm sorry that you had to go through a bad situation... you're not alone

thank you for understanding elisabeth

Kimberly R Walker wrote:
I am not in the wrong only thing i ever did wrong was TRUST HIM

The word "trust" is thrown around wayyyy too much. I see photogs all the time scream "if you don't trust me, then don't work with me"...and models that say "if you don't trust that I won't flake, then don't work with me".

Trust is a strong word. It shouldn't be handed out so easily. This is not to make people paranoid on either side, but this trust crap has got to go...just because you "trust" that a photographer will behave like a professional does not mean you "trust" the photographer as a person.

The two are not the same.

Mia Salen wrote:

I like coming up with new, ugly faces in the mirror.  It's entertaining

I don't have to try

Jessalyn wrote:

like I said, I don't doubt that you are telling the truth.

the thing is, MM cannot make exceptions for some people. It is not their job to verify the validity of someones claim just so they can bash another person in the forums.

youare right its just hard for a new model when we don't know anything and put our trust in a photographer and then get blasted like this you know its just plain wrong trust is a hard thing to come by

Kimberly R Walker wrote:

thank you for understanding elisabeth

yw... also remember that there are hundreds of real, great, professional photographers on here. Although if you live anywhere like I do, you have to travel for them

Daniela V wrote:

if a model has a bad experience he or she should put that member's number in their profile. same for photogs, stylists, etc.

However- you stating "and make you do pics that you don't want".....did the GWC hold a gun to your head?

you are right and that's why I have not done this since now but models should be warned its not only happened to me others as well but then he threatens to put all my images up in his page as in his words " a tribute"

Practice the word NO. Make communication clear before you shoot. Do your homework.

Don't call someone out on the forums or make a big deal of it. You'll only look foolish. I, personally, do not work with anyone that publicly calls someone out in a rude fashion...they only look bitter...not something I want to ever work with.

Look at someone's port- you should be able to tell if they flake or whatnot.

Kimberly R Walker wrote:
youare right its just hard for a new model when we don't know anything

you will find little to zero sympathy for you...just fair warning.

If you don't know anything, maybe you should start learning....

Mia Salen wrote:

Then contact a mod with your proof.

I have I am waiting on their reply

Kimberly R Walker wrote:

youare right its just hard for a new model when we don't know anything and put our trust in a photographer and then get blasted like this you know its just plain wrong trust is a hard thing to come by

The principles that apply to any relationship between a model and a photographer also apply to any relationship between any two or more human beings. You don't have to walk around jaded and paranoid to develop a good sense of self-defense. Always assume the people around you have bad intentions until you've established otherwise.

As you get older you will (hopefully) develop a better sense of spot judging the people you meet so you don't have to waste as much time determining what their intentions are. But if you're doing anything that is important to you, always protect yourself legally and financially before you enter into a new relationship.