Photographer
Bokehsharp
Posts: 3
Los Angeles, California, US
I am relatively new to shooting people, but in my release, there is a checkbox in my shot description, that says "no nudity" - accidental nudity will not be published.
Also, I have them sign when i pay them, at end of shoot. I did have one shoot get cut super short, model had personal issues, via a call, and I kinda left it up to the model, she wanted full pay, I paid full, but never used her again, and have told her when she called for more work.
Photographer
Greg Kolack
Posts: 18392
Elmhurst, Illinois, US
Jupiter Red wrote:
Why is it bad advice?
Do ya'll realize that the model signing away alllll rights to the photos
Good shots/bad shots/ porn shots
BEFORE the shots are even taken
Like, what?
I have no problems signing a model release, I.D, whatever
As long as its not some blood sacrifice I'm cool
AFTER the shoot, esp if its my first time working with you.
Is it really that big a damn deal? It isn't for me.
Photographer
Mike Collins
Posts: 2880
Orlando, Florida, US
Jupiter Red wrote:
Whoa I like that.
Release gets signed when I get paid
A new policy in the making maybuh. That won't fly on some commercial shoots. Sometimes you won't get paid for awhile (and neither will the photographer) but they need to get on those images asap. Just part of the biz.
Photographer
Art Silva
Posts: 10064
Santa Barbara, California, US
Jupiter Red wrote:
Antoher complicated problem with the release thingie,
Before every shoot I go over every detail, set boundaries, ect
Awesome eh?
Meet up, photog seems fine, sign release, start shooting nudes.
We had agreed not to do pink showing
Photog is a sneaky bastard,
Gets pink shots
May even act cocky/flippant with what he's doing
Then...what?
Nothing, I signed a legally-binding contract before we started
Go home
Cry Cherrystone wrote:
How can someone get pink, if it isn't displayed?
Pose within your limits, you won't have a problem.
Do you have a problem "checking references"? I have to agree with this point. Unless you are fully open leg facing the camera and spreading pink, this shouldn't be an issue.
References are a good thing.
Andrew Thomas Evans wrote:
Accidents happen when models are changing or when clothing shifts, or a range of reasons that aren't totally the models fault. If that happens when a release is signed then the photographer owns those shots.
... Nothing to change if it's a nude shoot.
Besides, most models are offered [and can request] a separate space, private corner or room, even a bathroom to do changes. Possible issue avoided!
As far as the time to sign a release, it can go both ways.
I am always busy getting set at the beginning concentrating on the photoshoot at hand getting in the Zone and all that stuff that 99% of the time I totally forget about the release until the model is about to leave.
I even had models remind me, and some trusting ones right before we start shooting.
I have no preference, and models can get a feel of the photographers intentions as soon as she walks onto the set.
I she feels a bit nervous about that and the photographer requires to sign before, then the model has to cross het T's and dot her I's so to speak.
Photographer
DAVISICON
Posts: 644
San Antonio, Texas, US
Greg Kolack wrote:
For what's its worth, I have always had releases signed at the end of a shoot, and have never, ever had a single problem with a model not signing one, running out, not having an ID, etc. Then obviously you have been very fortunate, and not dealt with models that changed their minds after shoot or "Im not sure I like the photographs or the way I look" or even better "I think the photoshoot was worth additional payment"...........lol
Photographer
joeyk
Posts: 14895
Seminole, Florida, US
Photos by EWP-Savannah wrote:
Simple, it prevents the model from getting to the end of the shoot and then announcing to me. " I don't want to sign that.". If you don't have it signed before hand, you become the object of a Ron White book. Have you ever gotten to the end of a shoot and had a refusal?
In 26 years, that's over 20,000 shoots, yes, really, I've had one refusal, AND it was one week later when she saw the paper "proofs", in 1995, and I wouldn't have used those images had she signed it.
Photographer
JQuest
Posts: 2460
Syracuse, New York, US
Jupiter Red wrote:
Why is it bad advice?
Do ya'll realize that the model signing away alllll rights to the photos
Good shots/bad shots/ porn shots
BEFORE the shots are even taken
Like, what?
I have no problems signing a model release, I.D, whatever
As long as its not some blood sacrifice I'm cool
AFTER the shoot, esp if its my first time working with you.
Is it really that big a damn deal? Nope, not a big deal for me. I've never had any of the issues that are being described here. Maybe I've just been lucky. I also tend to review the back of the camera every thirty to forty images with the model for their input, and so they can see what I'm looking for.
Model
Jupiter Red
Posts: 521
New York, New York, US
DAVISICON wrote:
Then obviously you have been very fortunate, and not dealt with models that changed their minds after shoot or "Im not sure I like the photographs or the way I look" or even better "I think the photoshoot was worth additional payment"...........lol Question..
If the model has decided that she isn't comfortable with the way the shoot has been going/ the content of it
Then what?
Do you slam dunk the release in her face?
Not a personal statement to you, but now I'm curious.
If a model is uncomfortable, and doesn't like/want to do it
(which might happen/can happen unless you hire a model with like no limits.
Thennnnn...?
To bad
So sad?
Photographer
Greg Kolack
Posts: 18392
Elmhurst, Illinois, US
DAVISICON wrote:
Then obviously you have been very fortunate, and not dealt with models that changed their minds after shoot or "Im not sure I like the photographs or the way I look" or even better "I think the photoshoot was worth additional payment"...........lol If its a paid shoot, simply don't pay them if they demand more money or make other demands if they won't sign the release.
If its a TF shoot, simply don't send them any images if they won't sign the release.
Photographer
Ed Woodson Photo
Posts: 174
Savannah, Georgia, US
joeyk wrote:
Have you ever gotten to the end of a shoot and had a refusal?
In 26 years, that's over 20,000 shoots, yes, really, I've had one refusal, AND it was one week later when she saw the paper "proofs", in 1995, and I wouldn't have used those images had she signed it. Actually, I have. Happened in the first couple of months that I was shooting.
I haven't been shooting for 26 years and I don't have 20,000+ shoots. But, I learned very quickly to get the paperwork done up front.
End of Story.
No release! No shoot!
Photographer
Andrew Thomas Evans
Posts: 24079
Minneapolis, Minnesota, US
Greg Kolack wrote:
If its a paid shoot, simply don't pay them if they demand more money or make other demands if they won't sign the release.
If its a TF shoot, simply don't send them any images if they won't sign the release. +1
Andrew Thomas Evans
www.andrewthomasevans.com
Photographer
KungPaoChic
Posts: 4221
West Palm Beach, Florida, US
Greg Kolack wrote:
A release is not a contract. It is part of paperwork -- the stock releases I had to have models fill out were very specific and the models were paid the day of the shoot -- but the releases were signed first. I needed specific paperwork and identification -- if not no shoot was going to take place.
For editorials I don't usually get releases signed but because of some issues with BTS shots being published we are going to have crew and models sign NDA's from now on.
It really depends on what kind of work you are doing but this is something you should discuss with the photographer beforehand.
Photographer
Select Model Studios
Posts: 818
Tempe, Arizona, US
I don't always make models sign releases. If it's just for portfolio work, I really don't see the need. If I do require them to sign something, it's done at the beginning of the session. Why? Just because it's easier. Model comes in, shows ID if it's anything revealing and then signs release. If we put it off until the end of the session then more often then not I forget about it. We just spent 2-4 hours shooting. We are outside in the heat or I'm lugging around gear. Everyone is tired, hungry or whatever else. It's just easier to shake hands and move on.
Photographer
Greg Kolack
Posts: 18392
Elmhurst, Illinois, US
KungPaoChic wrote:
It is part of paperwork -- the stock releases I had to have models fill out were very specific and the models were paid the day of the shoot -- but the releases were signed first. I needed specific paperwork and identification -- if not no shoot was going to take place.
For editorials I don't usually get releases signed but because of some issues with BTS shots being published we are going to have crew and models sign NDA's from now on.
It really depends on what kind of work you are doing but this is something you should discuss with the photographer beforehand. but that doesn't change the fact a release is not a contract.
Its been stated twice in this thread that a release is a contract.
Photographer
KungPaoChic
Posts: 4221
West Palm Beach, Florida, US
Greg Kolack wrote:
If its a paid shoot, simply don't pay them if they demand more money or make other demands if they won't sign the release.
If its a TF shoot, simply don't send them any images if they won't sign the release. I don't really care what anyone else does -- do whatever works for you.
Production work, film work, commercials -- they don't pay the same day and releases are signed before the shoot.
Photographer
joeyk
Posts: 14895
Seminole, Florida, US
Photos by EWP-Savannah wrote:
Actually, I have. Happened in the first couple of months that I was shooting.
I haven't been shooting for 26 years and I don't have 20,000+ shoots. But, I learned very quickly to get the paperwork done up front.
End of Story.
No release! No shoot! So you have an unbendable policy in regard to something that may statistically never happen again.
And, I do have, much, more experience than you, you're overreacting, IMHO...
Photographer
Greg Kolack
Posts: 18392
Elmhurst, Illinois, US
KungPaoChic wrote:
I don't really care what anyone else does -- do whatever works for you. This I agree with with.
But, as is so common in MM land, there are plenty of example in this thread of "if you don't do it my way, you are wrong."
Photographer
Ed Woodson Photo
Posts: 174
Savannah, Georgia, US
joeyk wrote:
So you have an unbendable policy in regard to something that may statistically never happen again.
And, I do have, much, more experience than you, you're overreacting, IMHO... How much experience you have means nothing to me. The only experience that's important to me is my own.
Yes, I have an unbendable policy about releases.
Simple as that.
Model
MelissaAnn
Posts: 3971
Seattle, Washington, US
Mike Collins wrote:
That won't fly on some commercial shoots. Sometimes you won't get paid for awhile (and neither will the photographer) but they need to get on those images asap. Just part of the biz. I wasn't talking about commercial shoots (and neither was the OP), I was talking about freelance/nude shoots. As another poster has already mentioned, the process is different with commercial shoots.
Model
Jupiter Red
Posts: 521
New York, New York, US
joeyk wrote:
So you have an unbendable policy in regard to something that may statistically never happen again.
And, I do have, much, more experience than you, you're overreacting, IMHO... +1
Seriously some people have these freaking laws written in stone for no reason
Wellllllll judging quality wise, what are you worrying about?
Geez
Photographer
DAVISICON
Posts: 644
San Antonio, Texas, US
Jupiter Red wrote:
Question..
If the model has decided that she isn't comfortable with the way the shoot has been going/ the content of it
Then what?
Do you slam dunk the release in her face?
Not a personal statement to you, but now I'm curious.
If a model is uncomfortable, and doesn't like/want to do it
(which might happen/can happen unless you hire a model with like no limits.
Thennnnn...?
To bad
So sad? enough with the silliness giving other models bad advice to make them paranoid and the "cat and mouse negotiating" for items on "your Amazon wishlist" lol (read your profile). Do your research, learn more about the industry, trust your photographer, or don't model, its that simple!
Photographer
Ed Woodson Photo
Posts: 174
Savannah, Georgia, US
Jupiter Red wrote:
+1
Seriously some people have these freaking laws written in stone for no reason
Wellllllll judging quality wise, what are you worrying about?
Geez Seems to me that you are trying to write your requirement of not signing in stone.
I suspect that you and I will never work together.
Model
Jupiter Red
Posts: 521
New York, New York, US
DAVISICON wrote:
enough with the silliness and "cat and mouse negotiating" for items on "your Amazon wishlist" lol (read your profile). Do your research, learn more about the industry, trust your photographer, or don't model, its that simple! Aha don't take your quality issues out on me,
I tend not to shoot for money,
As you can see, I have nude tf castings up,
Is it because I can't book shoots?
No,
Its because I care about quality
Which you obviously don't judging by your work.
Darling I doubt you'd know the "industry" if it bit you in the ass.
Photographer
joeyk
Posts: 14895
Seminole, Florida, US
Photos by EWP-Savannah wrote:
How much experience you have means nothing to me. The only experience that's important to me is my own.
Yes, I have an unbendable policy about releases.
Simple as that. LOL, defensive much?
I respect your right to do it as you please, and clearly you will.
How are you ever gonna learn anything when you think you already know everything???...lol
Model
Jupiter Red
Posts: 521
New York, New York, US
Photos by EWP-Savannah wrote:
Seems to me that you are trying to write your requirement of not signing in stone.
I suspect that you and I will never work together. Brb
Crying.
On a serious note, I'll just work with others who have a less rigid way of thinking
Its been working for me thus far
Photographer
KungPaoChic
Posts: 4221
West Palm Beach, Florida, US
Greg Kolack wrote:
but that doesn't change the fact a release is not a contract.
Its been stated twice in this thread that a release is a contract. actually it is a form of a contract.
A model release is a form of contract
It is not an image license though I sometimes wrap my license and release together.
"In consideration of the engagement as a model of the minor named below, and for other good and valuable consideration that I acknowledge as having received,"
and then you sign model signs and date
yes it is a form of a contract
If no good and valuable consideration is received it can be argued that the release ( contract) is invalid which is why you normally give something of value for the release to be valid.
Photographer
Ed Woodson Photo
Posts: 174
Savannah, Georgia, US
joeyk wrote:
LOL, defensive much?
I respect your right to do it as you please, and clearly you will.
How are you ever gonna learn anything when you think you already know everything???...lol Unlike you, I don't. I learn from my own experiences. And, at age 70, I've had, probably, a lot more experience than you.
Have a nice day.
Photographer
Ed Woodson Photo
Posts: 174
Savannah, Georgia, US
Jupiter Red wrote:
Brb
Crying.
On a serious note, I'll just work with others who have a less rigid way of thinking
Its been working for me thus far
That's excellent. Keep working with them and don't work with those whose policies you don't agree with. Coming here and complaining about it paints an indelible picture.
Model
MelissaAnn
Posts: 3971
Seattle, Washington, US
Jupiter Red wrote:
+1
Seriously some people have these freaking laws written in stone for no reason
Wellllllll judging quality wise, what are you worrying about?
Geez Everyone has their process/policies, and those unwilling to bend on those policies have to weigh whether or not what they're gaining is worth what they could potentially be losing (working with many good/smart models that are reputable, but won't sign releases at the beginning of a non-commercial shoot). Everyone needs to protect themselves, and do what's best for them. That being said, some people don't always know what's best for them, don't always have a good reason for their policies, or just like to be stubborn for the sake of being stubborn. Their problem, just don't make it yours.
Photographer
Llobet Photography
Posts: 4915
Fort Lauderdale, Florida, US
Do your research and work with better photographers.
I've shot with quite a few agency models and no releases are even mentioned. We know that we don't need any for what we're doing which is building portfolios.
If I'm selling the pictures for stock then yes I send the model release to the model so she can read it first before signing it at the beginning of the shoot. We sign at the beginning so we don't forget later on.
Photographer
DAVISICON
Posts: 644
San Antonio, Texas, US
Jupiter Red wrote:
Why is it bad advice?
Do ya'll realize that the model signing away alllll rights to the photos
Good shots/bad shots/ porn shots
BEFORE the shots are even taken
Like, what?
I have no problems signing a model release, I.D, whatever
As long as its not some blood sacrifice I'm cool
AFTER the shoot, esp if its my first time working with you.
Is it really that big a damn deal? Jupiter Red wrote:
Question..
If the model has decided that she isn't comfortable with the way the shoot has been going/ the content of it
Then what?
Do you slam dunk the release in her face?
Not a personal statement to you, but now I'm curious.
If a model is uncomfortable, and doesn't like/want to do it
(which might happen/can happen unless you hire a model with like no limits.
Thennnnn...?
To bad
So sad? DAVISICON wrote:
enough with the silliness giving other models bad advice to make them paranoid and the "cat and mouse negotiating" for items on "your Amazon wishlist" lol (read your profile). Do your research, learn more about the industry, trust your photographer, or don't model, its that simple! Jupiter Red wrote:
Aha don't take your quality issues out on me,
I tend not to shoot for money,
As you can see, I have nude tf castings up,
Is it because I can't book shoots?
No,
Its because I care about quality
Which you obviously don't judging by your work.
Darling I doubt you'd know the "industry" if it bit you in the ass.
Darling? Really? and your how old? this isnt highschool, Sassy too, lol Thanks so much for your fine examples on quality , Ive been in the industry for over 25 years, I appreciate your fine unqualified judgement, your unsolicited insults on my photography and so will many others on here, obviously you know more than anyone else about photography/modeling on here and model only the finest work, lol..................paging Udor, Udor please come to the front..............lol
Photographer
Andrew Thomas Evans
Posts: 24079
Minneapolis, Minnesota, US
Photos by EWP-Savannah wrote:
Unlike you, I don't. I learn from my own experiences. And, at age 70, I've had, probably, a lot more experience than you.
Have a nice day. People bring up age and post count and other stuff all the time, and I really don't know why.
For example, I've been alive for almost 35 years and I still have issues spelling some words, but I have a lot of experence spelling. Does my age give me authority to talk to a 5th grader who has won the national spellingbee about spelling?
Andrew Thomas Evans
www.andrewthomasevans.com
Model
D A N I
Posts: 4627
Little Rock, Arkansas, US
Some people need to get that stick removed from their arse
Model
MelissaAnn
Posts: 3971
Seattle, Washington, US
Photos by EWP-Savannah wrote:
Unlike you, I don't. I learn from my own experiences. And, at age 70, I've had, probably, a lot more experience than you.
Have a nice day. Your attitude will often dictate your experience.
Photographer
Andrew Thomas Evans
Posts: 24079
Minneapolis, Minnesota, US
BlueMoonPics wrote:
Do your research and work with better photographers.
I've shot with quite a few agency models and no releases are even mentioned. We know that we don't need any for what we're doing which is building portfolios.
If I'm selling the pictures for stock then yes I send the model release to the model so she can read it first before signing it at the beginning of the shoot. We sign at the beginning so we don't forget later on. +1
Andrew Thomas Evans
www.andrewthomasevans.com
Model
Jupiter Red
Posts: 521
New York, New York, US
MelissaAnn wrote:
Everyone has their process/policies, and those unwilling to bend on those policies have to weigh whether or not what they're gaining is worth what they could potentially be losing (working with many good/smart models that are reputable, but won't sign releases at the beginning of a non-commercial shoot). Everyone needs to protect themselves, and do what's best for them. That being said, some people don't always know what's best for them, don't always have a good reason for their policies, or just like to be stubborn for the sake of being stubborn. Their problem, just don't make it yours. Thank you Melissa,
I think I'll take you advice and drop it
Some people can't handle a simple discussion.
I was curious about different view-points, and sure as heck got them
Thank you for the wonderful responses 
Photographer
GdV
Posts: 254
Los Angeles, California, US
After 7 years and 50+ MM models, I've NEVER had a problem with the model signing AFTER the shoot. Also I get the ID pic then and pay the model.
Photographer
Ed Woodson Photo
Posts: 174
Savannah, Georgia, US
MelissaAnn wrote:
Your attitude will often dictate your experience. That's very true. And, for sure, there's a lot of attitude here.
Model
Jupiter Red
Posts: 521
New York, New York, US
Anywaysssss Thank you for all the wonderful responses I've gotten The only way I can become a better model, is by asking questions eh? Even though I'm a "google baby" somethings are framed differently. I'm relieved to see so many sensible people showing different viewpoints In an adult manner, ya know adult? Which I'd have thought some people would achieve since they're throwing down their age like its a damn bingo card. A lot of crybabies 'Tis life tho.
Model
MelissaAnn
Posts: 3971
Seattle, Washington, US
Photos by EWP-Savannah wrote:
That's very true. And, for sure, there's a lot of attitude here. LOL, yep. Model asks fair question, and a few photographers with a chip on their shoulders go preaching about their rigid policies.
You just keep doing what works for you. It's obviously making you a very happy person. 
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