e-string wrote:
I wouldn't bother with the modeling schools. They're pretty pointless.

What additions would help?

Christopher Ambler wrote:
All of those things should have already been done by her agency before they send her out on the job.

What about for those that work independent of agencies?

tgimaging wrote:
What addition would help?

I'd say just take out the school part. You already ask for credits, so I think that's good enough.

tgimaging wrote:
What about for those that work independent of agencies?

Keep your own notes on each model you plan on working with or are thinking of working with. I do.

e-string wrote:

I'd say just take out the school part.

If you really want to replace it with something, you could maybe ask for references. But that's not a very common thing to do, from my experience.

I hear you telling me what won't work. What's the solution in your opinion?

Craig Thomson wrote:

Keep your own notes on each model you plan on working with or are thinking of working with. I do.

The notes idea is great. It's what you thought they said, and there is the problem. Having the model fill out a form is their information to you.

tgimaging wrote:

I hear you telling me what won't work. What's the solution in your opinion?

Take it out is the solution.

I edited my previous post because I read the rest of your form more carefully. Since you're already asking for credits (and kinda asking for references at the same time), I think that does the job just fine.

Photo- op wrote:
Age , hight, body type

Good idea!! Thanks. It's also available in their port, right?

e-string wrote:

Take it out is the solution.

I edited my previous post because I read the rest of your form more carefully. Since you're already asking for credits (and kinda asking for references at the same time), I think that does the job just fine.

Is there a difference between the education/school and the work they've accomplished?

Iona Lynn wrote:
I send simaler to photographers that have contacted me and some answer questions, some send me a number to call them, some call me, and some ignore half of my questions and some ignore all of them....

Yes communication is key so make up a little list for your self and use it.

But don't expect all others to use it for you....

Whether it's used or not is an individual choice. What would you add to eliminate the unclear communication?

tgimaging wrote:

Is there a difference between the education/school and the work they've accomplished?

Yep. Modeling schools are usually a pointless waste of the models' money. For example, I can pose well in several different genres as well as walk the runway, and I never went to a modeling school. Credits show real-world work they've done and give you an idea of their capabilities.

e-string wrote:
Yep. Modeling schools are usually a pointless waste of the models' money. For example, I can pose well in several different genres as well as walk the runway, and I never went to a modeling school. Credits show real-world work they've done and give you an idea of their capabilities.

For me the modeling school info is an indication of the amount of time the model is willing to, or already has, invested. Similar to the college degree designation.

Iona Lynn wrote:
hrmm add:

models website.
omp mm numbers
Studio location....

models real name and stage name....

and concept of shoot I'd do one of these for EACH shoot....
each shoot is diffrent to me what I agree to on one is not what I'll agree on another one...

Excellent point!!!! Being specific for each shoot, and each photographer, is crucial.

tgimaging wrote:

Good idea!! Thanks. It's also available in their port, right?

It should be but that is assuming they have one.
This is your info sheet right?
Add what you need to know for your files.

tgimaging wrote:

For me the modeling school info is an indication of the amount of time the model is willing to (or already has) invest. Similar to the college degree designation.

Ok, but she's investing in a pointless thing. She should have spent her time on practicing at home, researching the real parts of the industry, and doing real modeling work. So many of the best models around never went to any silly modeling school. Industry people can tell you that it really means nothing and in fact sometimes causes models not to be creative because they only do exactly what they were taught.

tgimaging wrote:
Model information

Name: Horizon Vestible

Address: i usualy wear pants, but okay

City, State, ZIP: berkuly, ca, dress zips in back

Contact phone number: 991, ask for sgt smith in vice

Desired rate of pay:  125 per huor for half and half

Credentials: i blew my way to a high skool daploma

Modeling schools (include contact for verification):harvard ba, modeling theory and philosophy..   yale, ma and phd in philosophy of modeling and crack

Credits (include contact for verification): anti-crack crusade 'after'

Strong points/ beneficial information pertaining to the shoot: very flexible

Weaknesses:knees, seems i cant stay off them, wink wink

Chaperone preference:  Required on all shoots  /  Am capable of working independently   /   Depends on situation two way is only $30 more

Describe any restrictions/limitations you have with regards to content of the image:
you need to makesure my black eye doesnt show up..

Areas of exceptional ability – i.e. swimsuit, runway, artistic, etc…:+

i runway when i was 12, but i didnt take my swimsuit, my brother is artistic, he's learning to wash his hands, but i am only a little slow

Dates/Times available for shooting:i'm here 24 hours for 'dates'

Iona Lynn wrote:
I disagree I have never and will never go to modeling school. Yet I think if you ask about you will get some very fine recomendaions of the quality of work that I provied to photographers and artists as well as my experence...

That exactly what the form is designed to do - help the photgrapher know the model's info. Whether they attended classes or not. And also what their work history is.

tgimaging wrote:
For me the modeling school info is an indication of the amount of time the model is willing to, or already has, invested. Similar to the college degree designation.

Irony of this.. all the top agencies I have spoken to.. tell me modeling school is a waste of time and money - go figure

Perhaps instead of modeling school, you can ask for references from prior photographers who the model has worked with - one can go to school for years.. and graduate knowing no more than they did when they started.

However, the impression you leave someone with - lasts a lifetime ;o)

tgimaging wrote:

That exactly what the form is designed to do - help the photgrapher know the model's info. Whether they attended classes or not. And also what their work history is.

Well I suppose that makes sense. But if you really want the school information they give you to mean anything, I'd recommend familiarizing yourself with the various schools.

e-string wrote:

Ok, but she's investing in a pointless thing. She should have spent her time on practicing at home, researching the real parts of the industry, and doing real modeling work. So many of the best models around never went to any silly modeling school. Industry people can tell you that it really means nothing and in fact sometimes causes models not to be creative because they only do exactly what they were taught.

I'm sensing your opinion is modeling schools are sensless, and some industry poeple do also.

Any ideas on what will help the form?

Bryanna Nicole wrote:

Irony of this.. all the top agencies I have spoken to.. tell me modeling school is a waste of time and money - go figure

Perhaps instead of modeling school, you can ask for references from prior photographers who the model has worked with - one can go to school for years.. and graduate knowing no more than they did when they started.

However, the impression you leave someone with - lasts a lifetime ;o)

I like your thought. How would you add that to the form?

lotusphoto wrote:
funny, i just got this emailed to me from a prospective model..

ROFL

tgimaging wrote:

I'm sensing your opinion is modeling schools are sensless, and some industry poeple do also.

Any ideas on what will help the form?

As I indicated before, I think you already have most of the important stuff.

e-string wrote:

Well I suppose that makes sense. But if you really want the school information they give you to mean anything, I'd recommend familiarizing yourself with the various schools.

The form I'm putting together will help me with the pertinent schools the model went to, right? Then comes the familiarizing process.

tgimaging wrote:
After so many threads, so many horror stories, so many no-shows, so many 'changed my mind' situations, I'm getting the idea that something - some form of communication - is needed to cover the areas where shoots get hung up based on poor communication.

Clearly, it's something similiar to a job application is needed. Something a model can use to spell out what he/she is as a model. Here are some initial areas I came up with for a form. Please feel free to add to the list.

From the photographer's standpoint, here's what I would like.

Model information

Name:

Address:

City, State, ZIP:

Contact phone number:

Desired rate of pay:   

Credentials:

Modeling schools (include contact for verification):

Credits (include contact for verification):

Strong points/ beneficial information pertaining to the shoot:

Weaknesses:

Chaperone preference:  Required on all shoots  /  Am capable of working independently   /   Depends on situation

Describe any restrictions/limitations you have with regards to content of the image:

Areas of exceptional ability – i.e. swimsuit, runway, artistic, etc…:


Dates/Times available for shooting:

The idea came from a checklist I use at work. The list works great, and eliminates the 'fuzzy' (non-specific) agreements. I rarely have someone say "Well, I thought...... because....

I'd like to compile a list similar to the work list, to make sure all the bases and points are covered.


Please share your thoughts. What else do you think would be beneficial to communicate clearly.

Sounds like a plan or the start of one. Develop a form that can be emailed.....I will take one.

Iona Lynn wrote:
Do a shoot, then do another, see what goes wrong then add the missing info to your form.....

Good idea. Reading the threads over the past year is another good source.

Would you, as a model, consider something like this helpful in spelling out what you will do, and won't do, during a shoot?

I watched Notting Hill with Julie Roberts, and was taken by surprise, at the clause she mentioned about nudity. The thought about the model being upfront - about spelling out clearly what will and won't be done - came from that scene.

tgimaging wrote:
I like your thought. How would you add that to the form?

Maybe two or three spots for references from prior shoots - photogs contact information would work.

I wouldn't be offended if you asked me for a few references on Bryanna before shooting her - just as long as you keep in mind your questions you will ask the photographer must be limited - it's not like you can ask what she charged, or what he paid.. that is actually illegal - much like a credit company calling for a reference - they can't legally inquire as to your income, but they can ask how long you've been working there and if you are on time ( funny considering they are extending credit based on your income, and can't verify the #)

Did the model correspond with you prior to the shoot sufficiently?
Was the model on time?
Did the model need coaching? If so, how much

Stuff like that.. things you would really like to know before booking a particular model.

If they were always late.. if they never returns phone calls and/or emails.. if they had no idea what they were doing, if they got the hives when they got nervous ;o)

tgimaging wrote:
After so many threads, so many horror stories, so many no-shows, so many 'changed my mind' situations, I'm getting the idea that something - some form of communication - is needed to cover the areas where shoots get hung up based on poor communication.

Clearly, it's something similiar to a job application is needed. Something a model can use to spell out what he/she is as a model. Here are some initial areas I came up with for a form. Please feel free to add to the list.

From the photographer's standpoint, here's what I would like.

Model information

Name:

Address:

City, State, ZIP:

Contact phone number:

Desired rate of pay:   

Credentials:

Modeling schools (include contact for verification):

Credits (include contact for verification):

Strong points/ beneficial information pertaining to the shoot:

Weaknesses:

Chaperone preference:  Required on all shoots  /  Am capable of working independently   /   Depends on situation

Describe any restrictions/limitations you have with regards to content of the image:

Areas of exceptional ability – i.e. swimsuit, runway, artistic, etc…:


Dates/Times available for shooting:

The idea came from a checklist I use at work. The list works great, and eliminates the 'fuzzy' (non-specific) agreements. I rarely have someone say "Well, I thought...... because....

I'd like to compile a list similar to the work list, to make sure all the bases and points are covered.


Please share your thoughts. What else do you think would be beneficial to communicate clearly.

The model will want to know your address and personal information. Here is the best way to assure you that you will have a model show since you have included pay for the model.

Call a model agency. The model will show up and not with anyone else. She will be professional and if you ask for any input from her, she may or may not help you.

She is use to going to shoots that are used in catalogs, billboards, industrial magazines, etc..

When you call the modeling agency, they will ask you for your name, address and phone number. They will ask what type of shoot it is so they can best match the model for you. They will also ask who is the client, because they aren't use to having photographers calling up unless they have a client. They are use to clients calling up to model their products.

They will either have a website to take a look at the models, since this is quick and it reduces the cost to the agencies for mailing comp cards out and also cuts down the expense to the models to keep making more comp cards.

Once you have reviewed the models for the shoot you want, you tell the agency if they have the right model for you or not. If not, go to the next agency.

I like to be on model mayhem because I like to improve my skills as a photographer and can do this with TFP, but I am relying on the model being able to trust me that she is not in any danger which it seems that so many people have in grained it into models heads that opportunities are scams and the experiences models have had with photographers who had other ideas.

tgimaging wrote:

Good idea. Reading the threads over the past year is another good source.

Would you, as a model, consider something like this helpful in spelling out what you will do, and won't do, during a shoot?

I watched Notting Hill with Julie Roberts, and was taken by surprise, at the clause she mentioned about nudity. The thought about the model being upfront - about spelling out clearly what will and won't be done - came from that scene.

A bit perhaps I'd use it more for organazation...

I negotatate every shoot individualy so what I do for one shoot is not what I will do for another shoot.

For soem shoot I remain fully clothed (stop laughing) for others I do not, for others I may allow bondage, for others no how no way jose....it all depends I try to talk to each photogrpaher on phone or in person to discuse ideas and such if I have a long stanging relationship with them....email works too we talk more about ideas and concepts than will you be nude or what pose will you use....
I do'n go over a laundry list of I will be nude but my legs will be closed, or I will be non nude but my legs will be open....I will cover my breasts but I will not offer them up to you or squeaze my nipples...it all runs in the range of I will do figure or I will do glamour....If I get hired for figure and he goes twards glamour I let him know that is not what was agreed upon....I guess I like conversation of ideas rather than lists of Do's and Don'ts

Real people wrote:
The model will want to know your address and personal information. Here is the best way to assure you that you will have a model show since you have included pay for the model.

Call a model agency. The model will show up and not with anyone else. She will be professional and if you ask for any input from her, she may or may not help you.

She is use to going to shoots that are used in catalogs, billboards, industrial magazines, etc..

When you call the modeling agency, they will ask you for your name, address and phone number. They will ask what type of shoot it is so they can best match the model for you. They will also ask who is the client, because they aren't use to having photographers calling up unless they have a client. They are use to clients calling up to model their products.

They will either have a website to take a look at the models, since this is quick and it reduces the cost to the agencies for mailing comp cards out and also cuts down the expense to the models to keep making more comp cards.

Once you have reviewed the models for the shoot you want, you tell the agency if they have the right model for you or not. If not, go to the next agency.

I like to be on model mayhem because I like to improve my skills as a photographer and can do this with TFP, but I am relying on the model being able to trust me that she is not in any danger which it seems that so many people have in grained it into models heads that opportunities are scams and the experiences models have had with photographers who had other ideas.

I'm hearing that a modeling agency is on top of the arrangements and agreements. That's awesome. MM is great for working with the models that are starting their careers. How can the form help in a situation where no modeling agency is involved? What info can be added to help get the model and photographer on the same wavelength about a shoot? IN the past, have you had a shoot where you wished you had known something about the model BEFORE the shoot? What was it?