Forums > General Industry > Channel 5 CBC Right now. Models Murdered ;*(

Photographer

Photography Bug

Posts: 54

Atlanta, Georgia, US

Curt Burgess wrote:
The OP didn't provide us with anything other than a statement that there was a TV show last night that she didn't even see.  One should do due diligence either way. I'm wondering why the OP didn't give us anything we can sink our teeth into. Because the show last night on 48hrs was irrelevant to what we talk about here and if anything argues against escorts because that guy killed an escort or two. For a real rapist or killer the escort just makes it a 2 for 1 special.

So the OP needs to provide us with a link so we can evaluate her fearmongering. I don't know why you people don't discuss this stuff over on the escort thread. But pony up a site so we can not just be asked to take your word for it.

I don't think its fearmongering just because there aren't official documents of rape and murder cases related to modeling posted all through the threads.  I'm sure it would be helpful.  But I simply think threads like these are made for warning and general precaution for safety.  I don't see anything wrong with that.  Is there any proof that these crimes against models don't happen?  I haven't seen anyone prove yet that the possibilities can't become a reality.  These crimes may not be as apparent or occur as often as the usual rape and murder crimes everyday.  But the crimes do occur.  I think it goes both ways for proof.  Each to their own on if escorts are necessary or not, but I think in some cases they are.  Freelance modeling is where I see the greatest need for an escort though.

Nov 12 06 05:52 pm Link

Photographer

Curt at photoworks

Posts: 31812

Riverside, California, US

ShadowCrafter wrote:
Congrats.   the shows have helped you be afraid.  Be very afraid.

Don't go near the water ,  there are alligators that might jump out and bite your head off and eat you.

don't go to shopping malls.  women get kidnapped and are never seen again.

don't go to nursing school and sleep together. 

some guy  once killed a bunch of nurses.

don't go on a photo shoot with someone named Jim Jones at his commune.  They serve kool aid.

Histerical Histrionics serve those best who are afraid and wish to be reminded of why they should be afraid. 

Don't go  out too far.   Beyond  these lands   they be dragons.

OH NO!!!

https://photoworks.ws/images/funny/southpark_tweak.jpg

Nov 12 06 05:55 pm Link

Photographer

Photography Bug

Posts: 54

Atlanta, Georgia, US

.

Nov 12 06 05:56 pm Link

Photographer

Curt at photoworks

Posts: 31812

Riverside, California, US

Curt Burgess wrote:
The OP didn't provide us with anything other than a statement that there was a TV show last night that she didn't even see.  One should do due diligence either way. I'm wondering why the OP didn't give us anything we can sink our teeth into. Because the show last night on 48hrs was irrelevant to what we talk about here and if anything argues against escorts because that guy killed an escort or two. For a real rapist or killer the escort just makes it a 2 for 1 special.

So the OP needs to provide us with a link so we can evaluate her fearmongering. I don't know why you people don't discuss this stuff over on the escort thread. But pony up a site so we can not just be asked to take your word for it.

Farah Malika Images wrote:
I don't think its fearmongering just because there aren't official documents of rape and murder cases related to modeling posted all through the threads.  I'm sure it would be helpful.  But I simply think threads like these are made for warning and general precaution for safety.  I don't see anything wrong with that.  Is there any proof that these crimes against models don't happen?  I haven't seen anyone prove yet that the possibilities can't become a reality.  These crimes may not be as apparent or occur as often as the usual rape and murder crimes everyday.  But the crimes do occur.  I think it goes both ways for proof.  Each to their own on if escorts are necessary or not, but I think in some cases they are.  Freelance modeling is where I see the need.

It's not just "helpful" to have a cite for the claim, it's absolutely necessary in order to have a coherent discussion. Otherwise it's fearmongering. I don't think the risk is anywhere near what all the fearmongering would suggest, but I have no way of evaluating the OPs claim (remember, she DIDN'T EVEN SEE THE PROGRAM!!).  One shouldn't post a story without a reference. If a model was raped or murdered by a photographer there will be a record of it in the news. Pure and simple.

Your statement that "I think it goes both ways for proof" makes no logical sense. You can't prove a negative. You want me to prove that some models didn't get raped? Now if you want me to convince you that the story the OP is relating is irrelevant (and I don't know if it is or not), THEN PROVIDE THE CITE!!  I'm astonished that on one hand you say I have to prove a negative and then when I might be able to say something you justify denying me that information. It is incumbant upon the person making the claim to provide the evidence.

If you want information on how much more dangerous all kinds of other things are that people don't usually take precautions on, come over to the escort thread. This stuff is discussed all the time over there.

I find it really funny that some of you are willing to accept the OPs claims when she didn't even see the program.

Nov 12 06 06:04 pm Link

Photographer

Tony Lawrence

Posts: 21528

Chicago, Illinois, US

I just don't understand why almost every photographer is a possible, killer,
rapist or scam artist and even worse much of this comes from other photographers.
Every other day there is another thread about having escorts or models abused.
You'd think that no model is safe on any shoot.  Well it just isn't so.  Most shoots
go well in fact most models not only are treated well by photographers but get
their images.  Should women be careful of course but lets not let fear keep us
from what we love.

Lets say tomorrow there is a real crime committed against a model by a photographer.  Does that or should it impugn all photographers?  Several years
ago you couldn't pick up a paper without reading about a sex scandal involving
a priest.  Does that make all priests bad?  Do you feel the need to have a escort
at confession?  Use caution and common sense but not fear as a guide and for
all the trolls here you continue to hound us with the often fictional in part or
whole stories from Lifetime or the latest T.V. show, stop.

Women meet men at bars and clubs all the time but where are the daily warnings
about not meeting people at clubs and bars.  Most of these meetings go well
but in some cases bad things happen.  If the guy happens to take photos does
that make him a real pro photographer.  Lets all be careful but lets not
cast suspicion on a industry that doesn't need or deserve it.

Nov 12 06 06:07 pm Link

Photographer

Fantasy On Film

Posts: 667

Detroit, Michigan, US

When ever I read a forum post, I take a look at the OP profile/pics, this gives me a better perspective on the mind-set of the topic. I can say Sara D. Hines, that from your pics you do have every right to be worried that some "photog" is going to rape or murder you, since the majority of what's on your page today is just T & A. I have never heard of a model being raped or murdered on a professional set/shoot.

Have your dad look at your profile page here instead of telling you to watch a program on TV. A model sells a product, what product are you selling?

Rape and murder are serious crimes against people, not to be used as scare tatics or sound bites.

Escort or not, if you feel unsafe then take someone along, especially since the majority of your work involes you being photographed  T & A-out.

Oliver Cole

Nov 12 06 06:17 pm Link

Photographer

Photography Bug

Posts: 54

Atlanta, Georgia, US

Curt Burgess wrote:

Curt Burgess wrote:
The OP didn't provide us with anything other than a statement that there was a TV show last night that she didn't even see.  One should do due diligence either way. I'm wondering why the OP didn't give us anything we can sink our teeth into. Because the show last night on 48hrs was irrelevant to what we talk about here and if anything argues against escorts because that guy killed an escort or two. For a real rapist or killer the escort just makes it a 2 for 1 special.

So the OP needs to provide us with a link so we can evaluate her fearmongering. I don't know why you people don't discuss this stuff over on the escort thread. But pony up a site so we can not just be asked to take your word for it.

It's not just "helpful" to have a cite for the claim, it's absolutely necessary in order to have a coherent discussion. Otherwise it's fearmongering. I don't think the risk is anywhere near what all the fearmongering would suggest, but I have no way of evaluating the OPs claim (remember, she DIDN'T EVEN SEE THE PROGRAM!!).  One shouldn't post a story without a reference. If a model was raped or murdered by a photographer there will be a record of it in the news. Pure and simple.

Your statement that "I think it goes both ways for proof" makes no logical sense. You can't prove a negative. You want me to prove that some models didn't get raped? Now if you want me to convince you that the story the OP is relating is irrelevant (and I don't know if it is or not), THEN PROVIDE THE CITE!!  I'm astonished that on one hand you say I have to prove a negative and then when I might be able to say something you justify denying me that information. It is incumbant upon the person making the claim to provide the evidence.

If you want information on how much more dangerous all kinds of other things are that people don't usually take precautions on, come over to the escort thread. This stuff is discussed all the time over there.

I find it really funny that some of you are willing to accept the OPs claims when she didn't even see the program.

From what I read she said that she did see the program, just not the entire program. 
And it appears from other posts in this thread and another thread, that she isn't the only one to have seen the news program on the scandals, rapes, and murders of models.

Asking people to prove that models aren't at risk for potential dangers on photo shoots, etc...is more so challenging you to look at the statitstics of how many of these crimes do occur and then look at how many haven't.  If you can't show statistics where it appears that not one of these types of crimes against models haven't been committed, then you can't say that these things don't happen or aren't possible to happen.  I'm looking at it from that perspecitive.  Seems confusing, but it makes good sense.

Nov 12 06 06:19 pm Link

Photographer

Michael Wise

Posts: 100

Evanston, Illinois, US

Adler Photographic wrote:
As a photographer for over thirty years I do not understand this whole no escort thing. I can’t imagine telling Brooke Shields not to bring her mother Teri to one of our shoots. Or for that matter the numerous actresses and actors over the years whom arrived with an entourage including publicists, managers, assistants, and an assistant for the assistants and let us not forget the dog walker. Add in the crew including photographer assistants, stylist, make-up, hair and myself and we had a party.

It is crazy for a photographer to insist and claim an escort will ruin the shoot.
Any professional photographer should know how to handle any shooting situation and maintain control of the set. An area should be set a side for any guests that accompany the talent. Refreshments and comfortable seating is a must. Reading material, a television or music at the very least.

If the shoot requires privacy then close the set to necessary personnel only. Ask those that need not be in the shooting area to leave in a polite manner and ask them to wait in the green room (industry term for the waiting area) while the shooting proceeds.

When shooting a female model or actress I always had another female, usually a make-up artist present. I never had a shoot go bad because of a guest. I had discussions with managers and publicists, and then again they were the clients most of the time. Magazines had editors or writers present at most shoots.

I tell all of my models to bring someone with them and encourage them to NEVER go on a shoot without someone. I preach the “safety in numbers” motto and no job is worth taking a chance for any reason or with any photographer. PERIOD.

The only exception is when air travel and hotels are a factor. You cannot expect a photographer to pay for lodging and travel of your escort unless you are in such demand that they will pay. If it is a paying job it hopefully pays enough for you to bring someone. Check and see if the shoot is for a credible client or agency with references and all accommodations should be verified. Arrange your own transportation to and from the airport to be safe and make sure you have enough money to take a taxi back to the airport if you arrive and things don’t seem right. Always have a round trip ticket in your name and in your possession or a verified e-ticket. If other talent, make up, hair and other crew are also traveling, find out who they are and look to travel as a group if possible.

If a job sounds too good to be true, it probably is unless you know the people you are working with.

Most importantly, Always be safe. Do not be afraid to turn down a job if it does not feel right.

Well said...

Nov 12 06 06:23 pm Link

Makeup Artist

Seramakeup

Posts: 34

Melbourne, Victoria, Australia

Mikel Featherston wrote:

Quit now, and never leave your house. It's the only way to be sure.

I hope this was a joke.. because you sound like an idiot!!!
This is a serious thing and people should take it that way!
Even as a MUA i'm very careful how much i get to know a photographer before i shoot with them.. talking to models they've worked with in the pst etc..

The only way to be safe.. is to bring an escort sometimes..
And never let a photographer tell you that you cant... you have power too!!!
Remember that!
smile
Take care everyone..
Sera

Nov 12 06 06:24 pm Link

Photographer

Arizona Shoots

Posts: 28822

Phoenix, Arizona, US

Melvin Moten Jr wrote:
Should I take this to mean you've never had an anestetic or been to an OB/GYN?
Or are you so busy reacting that you forgot your last pelvic exam?

Oh, never mind...I'm going to bed...I shot five models today, and burying all those bodies has me plum tuckered out.

Stay scared girls!

Don't bury them in the back yard. Some of them attract weeds. Instead, burry them in your neighbor's yard and then call the cops. Just as a practical joke.

Nov 12 06 06:26 pm Link

Photographer

Mikel Featherston

Posts: 11103

San Diego, California, US

Seramakeup wrote:

I hope this was a joke.. because you sound like an idiot!!!
This is a serious thing and people should take it that way!
Even as a MUA i'm very careful how much i get to know a photographer before i shoot with them.. talking to models they've worked with in the pst etc..

The only way to be safe.. is to bring an escort sometimes..
And never let a photographer tell you that you cant... you have power too!!!
Remember that!
smile
Take care everyone..
Sera

Better to occasionally sound like an idiot than to BE an idiot. If you can't be safe at a session without an escort, you are not safe WITH an escort. Modeling is not supposed to be about putting yourself in unsafe situations. If you do your homework and determine that the photographer is not 'safe' to work with, then don't be a complete fool and WORK with him or her!

Nov 12 06 06:28 pm Link

Makeup Artist

Seramakeup

Posts: 34

Melbourne, Victoria, Australia

Sara Danielle Hines wrote:

What does that even mean? This was not a commercial. It was two, one hour shows on the modeling preditors. How do you disregard this?

Its a fact. It is true. It happens all the time. Believe it or not it will continue to happen. Models need to check ref's, again and again. Google, Ect. Escorts who are told the rules of the photog should be allowed. Even if they see the grounds and wait outside. Its creepy If an INTERNET photog does not allow any other contact thaen that of the model.

I totally agree.. some people disregard this issue and its stupid..
only photographers' have the problem talking up some lame excuse about their shoot!
Stop thinking about yrself for one minute and think of those you work with!!!
I asctually know of a model recently who went to a shoot after checking refs and talking to the photographer first yet was sexually abused anyway!!
It does happen!!!
Think carefully and stop disregarding this as nothing..
I know this isn't all ph's cos i've met some wonderful people there are those who think this is rediculous and to them i say stop being selfish!

Nov 12 06 06:30 pm Link

Makeup Artist

Seramakeup

Posts: 34

Melbourne, Victoria, Australia

Mikel Featherston wrote:

Better to occasionally sound like an idiot than to BE an idiot. If you can't be safe at a session without an escort, you are not safe WITH an escort. Modeling is not supposed to be about putting yourself in unsafe situations. If you do your homework and determine that the photographer is not 'safe' to work with, then don't be a complete fool and WORK with him or her!

You obviously have never worked with anyone who has had problems with other ph's.. or you wouldn't be talking like that!
Getting info on a person doesn't always mean you'll know how they work..
And what a dumb comment of course you wouldn't work with someone you know to be dodgy..

Nov 12 06 06:33 pm Link

Makeup Artist

Seramakeup

Posts: 34

Melbourne, Victoria, Australia

Tony Lawrence wrote:
I just don't understand why almost every photographer is a possible, killer,
rapist or scam artist and even worse much of this comes from other photographers.
Every other day there is another thread about having escorts or models abused.
You'd think that no model is safe on any shoot.  Well it just isn't so.  Most shoots
go well in fact most models not only are treated well by photographers but get
their images.  Should women be careful of course but lets not let fear keep us
from what we love.

Lets say tomorrow there is a real crime committed against a model by a photographer.  Does that or should it impugn all photographers?  Several years
ago you couldn't pick up a paper without reading about a sex scandal involving
a priest.  Does that make all priests bad?  Do you feel the need to have a escort
at confession?  Use caution and common sense but not fear as a guide and for
all the trolls here you continue to hound us with the often fictional in part or
whole stories from Lifetime or the latest T.V. show, stop.

Women meet men at bars and clubs all the time but where are the daily warnings
about not meeting people at clubs and bars.  Most of these meetings go well
but in some cases bad things happen.  If the guy happens to take photos does
that make him a real pro photographer.  Lets all be careful but lets not
cast suspicion on a industry that doesn't need or deserve it.

I totally agree i dont believe all ph's should be blamed for those few awful ones..
But dont you think you should make sure yr model is always comfortable and feels safe, even if it means she brings an escort to the first shoot with you??
Its a respect thing.. i think.

Nov 12 06 06:36 pm Link

Photographer

4C 41 42

Posts: 11093

Nashville, Tennessee, US

Tony Lawrence wrote:
I just don't understand why almost every photographer is a possible, killer,
rapist or scam artist and even worse much of this comes from other photographers.
Every other day there is another thread about having escorts or models abused.
You'd think that no model is safe on any shoot.  Well it just isn't so.  Most shoots
go well in fact most models not only are treated well by photographers but get
their images.  Should women be careful of course but lets not let fear keep us
from what we love.

Yes, exactly.  I don't know exactly how many photo shoots I've done.  I'm not going to try to estimate.  Many of these shoots have been done in my home studio and to date, nobody has been injured.  Most of the studio shoots involve a model standing in front of seamless or muslin with 3 or 4 lights on her.  There's nothing dangerous about it.  Nothing to get freaked out about.  Certainly isn't a need to have armed guards standing about ready to shoot me in the head.

I think the paranoia is getting a little over the top.  I'd be willing to be that somewhere, sometime there has been someone go into their office early in the morning to find someone hiding in there to bonk them over the head and ass rape them, or whatever.  But this doesn't cause me to send in a team of SWAT guys to clear my office every morning to make sure there isn't someone in there.  That would be nuts.

As I've stated many, many times in other threads on this subject, if you're fightened of me for some reason, don't agree to shoot with me.  Bringing your boyfriend with you isn't really going to make you feel better if you're convinced that at any minute I might drop the camera and hurl an ax at your head.  Your boyfriend probably isn't fast enough to stop an ax in midair.  I don't have time to deal with your fear and your photos will look like shit anyway.

When you grow up and realize that the whole world isn't out to "get" you, come on back.  This issue is very tiresome.

Nov 12 06 06:36 pm Link

Photographer

KXphotography

Posts: 301

Montreal, Quebec, Canada

See when models shoot with me they don't have to worry about that because I'm a tiny female photographer who's not even 5ft. What my boyfriend is afriad of is me shooting male models who might make a move on me!

Nov 12 06 06:37 pm Link

Photographer

4C 41 42

Posts: 11093

Nashville, Tennessee, US

Seramakeup wrote:
I totally agree i dont believe all ph's should be blamed for those few awful ones..
But dont you think you should make sure yr model is always comfortable and feels safe, even if it means she brings an escort to the first shoot with you??
Its a respect thing.. i think.

Respect?  I don't see how respect figures into it at all.  It's very difficult to respect somebody who thinks I'm going to attack and dismember them (or whatever it is the model is afraid of).  Where's the respect for the photographer?

Nov 12 06 06:39 pm Link

Photographer

Arizona Shoots

Posts: 28822

Phoenix, Arizona, US

Seramakeup wrote:
I totally agree.. some people disregard this issue and its stupid..
only photographers' have the problem talking up some lame excuse about their shoot!
Stop thinking about yrself for one minute and think of those you work with!!!
I asctually know of a model recently who went to a shoot after checking refs and talking to the photographer first yet was sexually abused anyway!!
It does happen!!!
Think carefully and stop disregarding this as nothing..
I know this isn't all ph's cos i've met some wonderful people there are those who think this is rediculous and to them i say stop being selfish!

I wonder.

How many of the "I will bring an escort to every shoot" models are actually bringing an escort because of a legitimate safety concern. I'm sure there are some who do it for this reason. But, if a model were to check references and they all came back as creepy would the model show up regardless since she's bringing someone with her? Makes me wonder why those of us with good reputations even bother.

I'm willing to bet that the vast majority of these models do so to appease their insecure/controlling boyfriend who won't let them do anything like this without their supervision. This is probably the most common reason for escorts. Yet, it's veiled as a safety precaution. I mean, who wants to appear that they're being controlled by someone else.

Nov 12 06 06:40 pm Link

Photographer

Mikel Featherston

Posts: 11103

San Diego, California, US

Seramakeup wrote:

You obviously have never worked with anyone who has had problems with other ph's.. or you wouldn't be talking like that!
Getting info on a person doesn't always mean you'll know how they work..
And what a dumb comment of course you wouldn't work with someone you know to be dodgy..

Then why in fuck's sake do I hear stories about girls who are treated badly at a photo session who STAY for the whole damn time? And you are right, I haven't worked with models who have had serious issues with others... perhaps because I work with the SMART ones.

Nov 12 06 06:41 pm Link

Photographer

Mikel Featherston

Posts: 11103

San Diego, California, US

Seramakeup wrote:
Its a respect thing.. i think.

It is disrespect on the part of the model.

Nov 12 06 06:41 pm Link

Photographer

4C 41 42

Posts: 11093

Nashville, Tennessee, US

John Jebbia wrote:
How many of the "I will bring an escort to every shoot" models are actually bringing an escort because of a legitimate safety concern. I'm sure there are some who do it for this reason. If a model were to check references and they all came back as creepy would the model show up regardless since she's bringing someone with her? Makes me wonder why those of us with good reputations even bother.

I'm willing to bet that the vast majority of these models do so to appease their insecure/controlling boyfriend who won't let them do anything like this without their supervision. This is probably the most common reason for escorts. Yet, it's veiled as a safety precaution. I mean, who wants to appear that they're being controlled by someone else.

Ditto.

Nov 12 06 06:43 pm Link

Photographer

Arizona Shoots

Posts: 28822

Phoenix, Arizona, US

Seramakeup wrote:
Its a respect thing.. i think.

It's a laziness thing.

It's a lot less work to bring someone with you to a photoshoot than it is to send off a few e-mails and make a few phone calls.

Nov 12 06 06:44 pm Link

Photographer

4C 41 42

Posts: 11093

Nashville, Tennessee, US

John Jebbia wrote:

It's a laziness thing.

It's a lot less work to bring someone with you to a photoshoot than it is to send off a few e-mails and make a few phone calls.

And a kidding-yourself thing.  If you're going to meet a serial killer and you bring your boyfriend with you, don't you think the serial killer would be ready for this complication and bring an extra rope, or bullet, or ax, or bodybag for the escort too?

The other thing is, why should the photographer trust that the escort isn't a killer?  So far I've heard more stories of escorts beating up photographers than I have of photographers attacking models.  Seems like the photographer is expected to trust the escort, but nobody should trust the photographer.  Seems a little one-sided doesn't it?

Nov 12 06 06:48 pm Link

Makeup Artist

Seramakeup

Posts: 34

Melbourne, Victoria, Australia

Tim Baker wrote:
Our escort policy
--------------------------
Models under 18 absolutely must have a parent or legal guardian escort them and remain with them while we shoot. There are some exceptions: school photographs, sporting events, and such, a parent would not be expected to be present. In other shots all models under 18 are required to have a parent or legal guardian present. I will not shoot any nudity or suggestive photography of anyone under the age of 18.

Escorts are optional for 18 or over models, but are certainly welcomed and encouraged, especially if they bring cookies. However, please discuss the importance of your 'moment' with whomever escorts you to your shoot so that he or she doesn't interfere with the actual shoot, itself. No drama king or queen escorts, please. No unsupportive and jealous boyfriend/significant others, please. I'm very sorry, but I won't shoot with models who are escorted by unprofessional and/or non-supportive escorts. It's very important that they (your escort) understand that this if your moment to shine.

Please choose your escorts wisely. If you feel you need protection, please bring someone who will protect you (I have been known to get agressive and throw cookies at models). If you need an escort for encouragement or to make you feel more relaxed, then please feel free to bring along someone who's willing to offer encouragement and such. Just like finding the 'right' model for the right job, please have the right 'escort' for photoshoot, if you feel you need to have one.

If you feel you need an escort, and cannot find one, we will be happy to provide a female associate to help you during the shot, however on TFP shots you will be required to pay her for her time ($15/hour) and give her a couple cookies.

You have made my day.. thankyou! smile
I think you are the only ph here who is taking this seriously! it sounds like anyway.. smile
You have the right idea... i applaud you...

And i understand ph's can get peeved that a model may bring an escort that is inappropriate and interferes.. i think this is why so many ph's kick up a stink about escorts..
That is understandable.. so make it clear.. like you have before the shoot when you meet and all should be fine!
Sera

Nov 12 06 06:49 pm Link

Makeup Artist

Seramakeup

Posts: 34

Melbourne, Victoria, Australia

Mikel Featherston wrote:

Then why in fuck's sake do I hear stories about girls who are treated badly at a photo session who STAY for the whole damn time? And you are right, I haven't worked with models who have had serious issues with others... perhaps because I work with the SMART ones.

You are such a creep! lol
This girl i know actually didn't stay after the incident happened she promptly left..
I hope i never have to work with any ph's like you!

Nov 12 06 06:50 pm Link

Photographer

4C 41 42

Posts: 11093

Nashville, Tennessee, US

Seramakeup wrote:
I think you are the only ph here who is taking this seriously! it sounds like anyway.. smile

I take it very seriously.  Seriously enough that I'm considering giving up shooting.  If being a photographer makes me a homicidal maniac, I want no part of it.

Nov 12 06 06:51 pm Link

Photographer

Mikel Featherston

Posts: 11103

San Diego, California, US

Seramakeup wrote:

You are such a creep! lol
This girl i know actually didn't stay after the incident happened she promptly left..
I hope i never have to work with any ph's like you!

Trust me, with an attitude like yours, you won't have to worry.

Nov 12 06 06:52 pm Link

Makeup Artist

Seramakeup

Posts: 34

Melbourne, Victoria, Australia

Mikel Featherston wrote:

It is disrespect on the part of the model.

Please explain to me why u think its disrespectful..
i dont get it!

Nov 12 06 06:52 pm Link

Makeup Artist

Seramakeup

Posts: 34

Melbourne, Victoria, Australia

LarryB wrote:

I take it very seriously.  Seriously enough that I'm considering giving up shooting.  If being a photographer makes me a homicidal maniac, I want no part of it.

That's really sad i hope you dont do that! sad
There are some GREAT ph's out there that can understand the issue but cant find a way around it i think..
I hope you find a way to continue..
It's fair to label all ph's..

Nov 12 06 06:54 pm Link

Photographer

Arizona Shoots

Posts: 28822

Phoenix, Arizona, US

LarryB wrote:
I take it very seriously.  Seriously enough that I'm considering giving up shooting.  If being a photographer makes me a homicidal maniac, I want no part of it.

Larry, do what I have been seriously considering lately.

I'm thinking of building a network of about 6 or 7 reliable, professional, trusting models and only working with them from now on. This means that they, and only they will be the ones to benefit from my many paid opportunities. Nothing beats a recurring client, huh?

Nov 12 06 06:55 pm Link

Makeup Artist

Seramakeup

Posts: 34

Melbourne, Victoria, Australia

John Jebbia wrote:

It's a laziness thing.

It's a lot less work to bring someone with you to a photoshoot than it is to send off a few e-mails and make a few phone calls.

I dont agree...
You can email all you like but still not know the ph..
You can lie in emails...
I met ph's like that!

Nov 12 06 06:56 pm Link

Photographer

Boho Hobo

Posts: 25351

Santa Barbara, California, US

Sara Danielle Hines wrote:
I see no reason for a photog to completely dismiss a model because they want to bring an escort. With the way this world is today, I would think photogs would find respect in models who ask’s for references , gives all phone # and addresses to a friend or family member of where they will be and also brings someone along with them. I don’t understand how any photog could find annoyance in this!

I find it totally annoying. 

If a model wants to work with me, and checks my references (all positive, not one murdered or groped) and does a premeet with me and THEN still finds the need to bring an escort, I'd be annoyed.  For once they wasted my valuable time by walking me through the paces of showing myself to be legitimate and that STILL wasn't enough.

That would suggest to me that the model was either lacking emotional maturity or the psychological balance I find necessary in people that I wish to associate with, either  professionally or personally.

Nov 12 06 06:56 pm Link

Makeup Artist

Seramakeup

Posts: 34

Melbourne, Victoria, Australia

John Jebbia wrote:

Larry, do what I have been seriously considering lately.

I'm thinking of building a network of about 6 or 7 reliable, professional, trusting models and only working with them from now on. This means that they, and only they will be the ones to benefit from my many paid opportunities. Nothing beats a recurring client, huh?

That's a great idea..smile
All ph's should do this...

Nov 12 06 06:57 pm Link

Makeup Artist

Seramakeup

Posts: 34

Melbourne, Victoria, Australia

KM von Seidl wrote:

I find it totally annoying. 

If a model wants to work with me, and checks my references (all positive, not one murdered or groped) and does a premeet with me and THEN still finds the need to bring an escort, I'd be annoyed.  For once they wasted my valuable time by walking me through the paces of showing myself to be legitimate and that STILL wasn't enough.

That would suggest to me that the model was either lacking emotional maturity or the psychological balance I find necessary in people that I wish to associate with, either  professionally or personally.

That would be annoying.. smile

Nov 12 06 06:59 pm Link

Photographer

Mikel Featherston

Posts: 11103

San Diego, California, US

Seramakeup wrote:

That's a great idea..smile
All ph's should do this...

You wouldn't make the cut.

Nov 12 06 07:00 pm Link

Photographer

Arizona Shoots

Posts: 28822

Phoenix, Arizona, US

Seramakeup wrote:
I dont agree...
You can email all you like but still not know the ph..
You can lie in emails...
I met ph's like that!

You're right. Anything can happen. That's called life.

But there are ways to verify references. Perhaps asking them for a phone number so that you can at least verify that it's a female you're talking to..

(You'd have to ask my reference for her phone number though. I, frankly, would never give that out without asking first.)

Nov 12 06 07:00 pm Link

Photographer

Fotogene

Posts: 562

Chicago Heights, Illinois, US

Mia Salen wrote:
Someone in another thread said something about how models were more likely to die in a car crash on the way, but we take safeguards against that.  We wear seatbelts.  I use my turn signal.  Having someone nearby that I can call on if I need help is like that.  It's a safeguard I like to take.  I have shot without escorts and with one, but I've always felt more at ease having someone there.

I've also heard about the comparison to taking someone with you to the dentist or the doctors, but you're not nude there.  And if you're naked at the doctors, you're not presented sexually.

I remember a recent local story about a dentist who druged his female patients and had his way with them as he filled their cavities. Also a story about a doctor who provided his sperm and fathered an untold number of children for women unable to do so with out the help. They just didn't know it was HIS sperm!

Last fall I was ripped off, perhaps because I was too casual about who I let into my studio area unsupervised. It was a $10,000 uninsured lesson learned the hard way. I began shooting models in 1965 and have dozens if not hundreds of examples of reasons why escorts have hurt the photo process. Nothing new, just read the miles of discussion. A few escorts have helped improve various aspects of the shoot but a very small minority. A few escorts were obviously there to intimidate me. Police men and women, tall, big "brothers, boyfriends or others" and I allowed none of them to be a part of the shoot unless they shot too. Correction - female escorts - must shoot too, male escorts - outside. If anything ever happened they are just outside to do whatever they would do inside after the fact.

My new rule is "you bring an escort - double fee and they must also be in your images." Amazing how the need quickly diminishes.

Nov 12 06 07:01 pm Link

Makeup Artist

Seramakeup

Posts: 34

Melbourne, Victoria, Australia

John Jebbia wrote:

You're right. Anything can happen. That's called life.

But there are ways to verify references. Perhaps asking them for a phone number so that you can at least verify that it's a female you're talking to..

(You'd have to ask my reference for her phone number though. I, frankly, would never give that out without asking first.)

I totally understand..
Some people have bad attitudes towards this i dont think you do and im sure
models appreciate it

Nov 12 06 07:03 pm Link

Makeup Artist

Seramakeup

Posts: 34

Melbourne, Victoria, Australia

Mikel Featherston wrote:

You wouldn't make the cut.

lol big_smile
What is that sposed to mean?
Why are you getting sooo personal?
Its funny!
Ive not said anything about yr work or personality and yr trying to make me feel crap..
Your making yrself look silly! lol smile

Nov 12 06 07:04 pm Link

Makeup Artist

Seramakeup

Posts: 34

Melbourne, Victoria, Australia

John Jebbia wrote:

I wonder.

How many of the "I will bring an escort to every shoot" models are actually bringing an escort because of a legitimate safety concern. I'm sure there are some who do it for this reason. But, if a model were to check references and they all came back as creepy would the model show up regardless since she's bringing someone with her? Makes me wonder why those of us with good reputations even bother.

I'm willing to bet that the vast majority of these models do so to appease their insecure/controlling boyfriend who won't let them do anything like this without their supervision. This is probably the most common reason for escorts. Yet, it's veiled as a safety precaution. I mean, who wants to appear that they're being controlled by someone else.

lol big_smile
Well i've not considered this but im sure it can be true in some circumstances...
But to say it's majority is unture i think..

Nov 12 06 07:07 pm Link