Photographer
ElitePhotosPhotography
Posts: 729
Los Angeles, California, US
Here I am with a scheduled photo shoot for 6:15pm and it is 6:45pm with no phone call or anything....Why can't models just live up to appointments....It is really the small majority of the models out there that set a bad example for the rest. But question....Is it wrong to blast the models? Maybe we should have a separate forums listing all the flaking models and photographers that way we know who is definetly NOT reliable. What do you think?
This is just a rant because i'll be off doing something else pretty soon.
Photographer
J Schumacher
Posts: 1220
Gustine, California, US
Arr. Happens a lot here, and it makes you so damn mad.
But I guess the best thing to do is forget it, and put the model/photographer on the bullshit list. And obviously, don't book with them again.
That's my current policy.
Photographer
ElitePhotosPhotography
Posts: 729
Los Angeles, California, US
Good policy, just wish there was some way to be able to help others....maybe that way the photographer/model will think twice about not showing up. after all, it takes about 20 seconds to call and say they are not showing up.
Photographer
Emeritus
Posts: 22000
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
Cue the violins. Another horse just died.
Photographer
J Schumacher
Posts: 1220
Gustine, California, US
Don't pull out that picture. Or that picture, either.
Photographer
Miguel Book 1
Posts: 1473
Washington, District of Columbia, US
Just move on. Nothing that you can do.
Photographer
American Glamour
Posts: 38813
Detroit, Michigan, US
TXPhotog wrote:
Cue the violins. Another horse just died. What time do we schedule our daily equinne memorial? I get confused and am never on time to express my condolenced to those poor darned horses who have been beaten to death.
Model
Dances with Wolves
Posts: 25108
SHAWNEE ON DELAWARE, Pennsylvania, US
cisstudio wrote:
But question....Is it wrong to blast the models? Maybe we should have a separate forums listing all the flaking models and photographers that way we know who is definetly NOT reliable. What do you think? It's wrong. don't do it. move on.
Photographer
ChanStudio
Posts: 9219
Alpharetta, Georgia, US
Daniela V wrote:
It's wrong. don't do it. move on. Why is it wrong? When I buy a product, especially electronic, I want to know its reliability, quality and cost and there are ratings for those from Consumer Report, the internet, etc. Shouldn't model and photographers who are more reliable be noticed more and be rewarded? Even ebay has ratings on buyers and sellers.
Photographer
ElitePhotosPhotography
Posts: 729
Los Angeles, California, US
Chan Studio wrote:
Why is it wrong? When I buy a product, especially electronic, I want to know its reliability, quality and cost and there are ratings for those from Consumer Report, the internet, etc. Shouldn't model and photographers who are more reliable be noticed more and be rewarded? Even ebay has ratings on buyers and sellers. Good point! I am all for a rating system....after all, agencies do it as well. Show up late or don't show up at all and you are done. It's just like a job. If you are continuously late for work, eventually you can be fired and it if is documented, the company has every right to disclose that information to future employers as well.
Photographer
ElitePhotosPhotography
Posts: 729
Los Angeles, California, US
Daniela V wrote:
It's wrong. don't do it. move on. Also, this person could have actually just placed up a profile out of bordome and to waste everyones time. I am sure that Model Mayhem would be more beneficial if it didn't have these individuals on here.
Model
Dances with Wolves
Posts: 25108
SHAWNEE ON DELAWARE, Pennsylvania, US
Chan Studio wrote:
Why is it wrong? When I buy a product, especially electronic, I want to know its reliability, quality and cost and there are ratings for those from Consumer Report, the internet, etc. Shouldn't model and photographers who are more reliable be noticed more and be rewarded? Even ebay has ratings on buyers and sellers. This isn't ebay.
If you're going to out someone, make sure he or she knows. There are two sides to every story. Why should we believe the OP at all? It's just a person behind a computer.
Model
Dances with Wolves
Posts: 25108
SHAWNEE ON DELAWARE, Pennsylvania, US
cisstudio wrote:
Also, this person could have actually just placed up a profile out of bordome and to waste everyones time. I am sure that Model Mayhem would be more beneficial if it didn't have these individuals on here. If you out her, please post her MM number so I can be sure to tell her your slamming her without her knowledge.
Don't be an ass. Stop whining and complaining. Check your references and find better models. There are tons on here that don't flake.
Photographer
J Schumacher
Posts: 1220
Gustine, California, US
That's the problem. Some people here get so annoyed at each other, not because of working together, but just from their posts.... grudges could lead to false infos. And of course anyone blacklisted will retaliate, 1 for 1.
So if a photographer calls a model a flake, and puts a negative mark on her, she'll obviously do the same, in retaliation/damage control. This forces us to choose who's telling the truth, or maybe both are, from their viewpoints. Regardless, both would end up with blemishes on their profiles.
I think the only thing that would work, (maybe) is a place to put Positive values on them.... (like we do in comments.) This model showed up, on time, worked well, etc. You'd still have a problem with their friends pumping them up, but who knows, it might help.
Model
Dances with Wolves
Posts: 25108
SHAWNEE ON DELAWARE, Pennsylvania, US
J Schumacher wrote:
That's the problem. Some people here get so annoyed at each other, not because of working together, but just from their posts.... grudges could lead to false infos. And of course anyone blacklisted will retaliate, 1 for 1.
So if a photographer calls a model a flake, and puts a negative mark on her, she'll obviously do the same, in retaliation/damage control. This forces us to choose who's telling the truth, or maybe both are, from their viewpoints. Regardless, both would end up with blemishes on their profiles.
I think the only thing that would work, (maybe) is a place to put Positive values on them.... (like we do in comments.) This model showed up, on time, worked well, etc. You'd still have a problem with their friends pumping them up, but who knows, it might help. These are good suggestions but there is no foolproof method.
Which is why those of us that say STOP BEATING THIS TO DEATH, say STOP BEATING THIS TO DEATH.
jesus- aren't there more important things? So someone flaked on you...great, someone else just got diagnosed with cancer. Stop bitching.
Photographer
Tog
Posts: 55204
Birmingham, Alabama, US
Is it wrong?
Well, seems like someone new is doing it about every 30 minutes, so it must be right..
Model
~*Isabel Aurora*~
Posts: 5778
Boca del Mar, Florida, US
Chan Studio wrote:
Why is it wrong? When I buy a product, especially electronic, I want to know its reliability, quality and cost and there are ratings for those from Consumer Report, the internet, etc. Shouldn't model and photographers who are more reliable be noticed more and be rewarded? Even ebay has ratings on buyers and sellers. It would turn in to a witch hunt.......wouldn't you say?
Photographer
Lotus Photography
Posts: 19253
Berkeley, California, US
i shot with someone a couple of weeks ago, i sent her some pictures, she didn't reply, i got self conscious, decided she didn't like the pictures, and forgot about using them..
i dont use a picture unless the model likes it.. i'm funny that way
anyways, two days ago she emails me..
"the pictures were great thanks, sorry i didnt get back to you, i was in a car accident.."
glad i didn't get mad..
Photographer
J Schumacher
Posts: 1220
Gustine, California, US
Frizzy Izzy wrote:
[
It would turn in to a witch hunt.......wouldn't you say? Yuuuuup.
Photographer
ElitePhotosPhotography
Posts: 729
Los Angeles, California, US
Daniela V wrote:
If you out her, please post her MM number so I can be sure to tell her your slamming her without her knowledge.
Don't be an ass. Stop whining and complaining. Check your references and find better models. There are tons on here that don't flake. First of all, I am not slamming her. As for notifying her, I have already left her a "tag" that indicated that she has missed her scheduled appointment. As for what you precieve as slander, is actually not slander at all. According to the law, the "Truth", is not slander. If the statement made about another is true, then there can be no claim for libel or slander. Furthermore, many courts have also upheld that "resonable belief" that the statement is true can also be successful as a defenese.
I have also indicated that this post is just a rant....I have had several no shows recently and it just got to me this time. Besides, there are plenty of models out there but have it known that if you schedule a photo shoot with me and do not show up, I will post a "tag", so that all can see, stating, very rationally, that you have missed your appointment. I suggest other models and photographers do the same thing as well. This would be beneficial to others who are considering scheduleing a photo shoot with him/her and it would be one "reference" point for the photographer/model who is looking to schedule something.
Photographer
J Schumacher
Posts: 1220
Gustine, California, US
Daniela V wrote:
Which is why those of us that say STOP BEATING THIS TO DEATH, say STOP BEATING THIS TO DEATH. Well, I think it keeps coming up because of the new people on the board, who haven't gone through this with us already. Give the fresh ones a break. They'll become jaded soon enough.
Photographer
Emeritus
Posts: 22000
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
Photographer
Fuzzytek - Stephen
Posts: 658
Detroit, Michigan, US
Today's scheduled shoots... 4 of 4 no-show.
One had stomach flu
Two have transportation issues
One simply didn't acknowledge
The last is the only one that I really have an issue with, sadly that was the last of the 4 appointments which took me from noon to 7pm. Therefore - one day spent at studio without computer/internet - this day was trashed, a black hole.
At the end of the day I got a call from a model and I wasn't exactly my cheerful self. I found myself apologizing over and over about requiring a deposit for the shoot. I do think she got the impact though.
For today - those four shoots were without a deposit... next shoot with any of them... will require deposit. I understand overcoming difficulties - I have no car and took my bike on a bus with a backpack full of gear to be at the studio today. Sorry but there is a space in which there is no grief. Want to talk about overcoming obstacles? And yes I would have been at a shoot even if I had stomach flu - of course I would have had to keep excusing myself... that is if the photographer still insisted on shooting.
New models versus existing ones that know it is business. Although it can be hard to talk business on an internet forum, considering the level of business dealings.
Photographer
Robert Ector
Posts: 386
Atlanta, Georgia, US
Put the model on blast so other photographers dont schedule with her. That would make them think twice before they no show.
Photographer
JSVPhotography
Posts: 4897
Madison, Wisconsin, US
I feel that pain. Been there just like many others here. Move on without the blast. There are other models.
Photographer
Tony Lawrence
Posts: 21528
Chicago, Illinois, US
cisstudio wrote:
First of all, I am not slamming her. As for notifying her, I have already left her a "tag" that indicated that she has missed her scheduled appointment. As for what you precieve as slander, is actually not slander at all. According to the law, the "Truth", is not slander. If the statement made about another is true, then there can be no claim for libel or slander. Furthermore, many courts have also upheld that "resonable belief" that the statement is true can also be successful as a defenese.
I have also indicated that this post is just a rant....I have had several no shows recently and it just got to me this time. Besides, there are plenty of models out there but have it known that if you schedule a photo shoot with me and do not show up, I will post a "tag", so that all can see, stating, very rationally, that you have missed your appointment. I suggest other models and photographers do the same thing as well. This would be beneficial to others who are considering scheduleing a photo shoot with him/her and it would be one "reference" point for the photographer/model who is looking to schedule something. You're new and man this horse has been beaten and hung. Here's
a few suggestions. Have a call from any model for a shoot a hour or more before,
no call, no shoot. Model contacts you for a shoot get a deposit. No deposit
no shoot. If a model won't provide you with a contact number or says she
doesn't have one, bad sign. When you talk to the model to set up a shoot and
I try and do no more then three emails before I say either we talk or forget it.
Listen carefully to what she says.
Does she sound bored? Ask about her modeling goals. How many people she's
shot with. Does she have any ideals for shoot ideals. Listen to her responses
and tone. If she can't wait to get you off the phone, bad sign. This if she's
called you. I ask that models call to confirm a shoot the day before and the
day of. I don't call them and emails aren't good enough. Even with all these
things in place models flake.
Outing them is a waste of time because other photographers will ignore your
warnings and only leads to problems mostly for you.
Model
tark
Posts: 886
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
that is SOOOOOOOO unprofesional...if i do that at my work i'd be fired on the spot!!!
i think its wrong if the model or photographer pull a no show!! very disrespectful
i would never EVER do such a thing!!! once i was 5 min late (got lost) and i felt so rude and so bad!!!
i think if a photographer askes you personaly who it was u should tell them
Photographer
Wayne Chow Photography
Posts: 586
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Just quit photographing models, saves a lot of heart ache. I keep telling myself that but can't do it.
Photographer
Jose Luis
Posts: 2890
Dallas, Texas, US
Im with the OP- this site needs an ebay style feedback system. Save turn the other cheek for your pastor. Its not unprofessional to leave feedback- its just intelligent.
Photographer
Wayne Chow Photography
Posts: 586
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Jose Luis wrote:
Im with the OP- this site needs an ebay style feedback system. Save turn the other cheek for your pastor. Its not unprofessional to leave feedback- its just intelligent. Great idea but what will stop someone from blasting the model in the feedback. On ebay people still write scathing words when a transaction goes bad.
Photographer
g-man
Posts: 172
Honolulu, Hawaii, US
Daniela V wrote:
Which is why those of us that say STOP BEATING THIS TO DEATH, say STOP BEATING THIS TO DEATH.
jesus- aren't there more important things? So someone flaked on you...great, someone else just got diagnosed with cancer. Stop bitching. There are many subjects that people say they are tired of hearing discussed, yet many that say they feel that way continue following the thread, repeatedly post, and help to perpetuate the discussion they supposedly wish would disappear.
If further discussion is pointless, why not move on?
Photographer
Tim Baker-fotoPerfecta
Posts: 9877
Portland, Oregon, US
I'm frustrated because of two no-shows last week, and my shot for Saturday has kind of committed, and I've sent two or three confirmation emails asking him or her to PLEASE confirm, but nothing but silence. I know they're being read, but still silence from the model. I have another model who wants the time so tomorrow if my earlier emails are still unanswered, I'm cancelling my shot with the non-communicative model and going with the one who actually seems to want to shoot.
Dead horse of a bit of a different color.
/tim
Photographer
Tim Baker-fotoPerfecta
Posts: 9877
Portland, Oregon, US
Daniela V wrote:
These are good suggestions but there is no foolproof method.
Which is why those of us that say STOP BEATING THIS TO DEATH, say STOP BEATING THIS TO DEATH.
jesus- aren't there more important things? So someone flaked on you...great, someone else just got diagnosed with cancer. Stop bitching. Well, it continues to be a problem. Why don't models discuss this on the Model forums (perhaps they do) but the no-shows are giving the professional models a bad rap and this attitude of 'hey, move on' doesn't help either of you. /tim
Photographer
IrisSwope
Posts: 14857
Dallas, Texas, US
Honestly, all these people with no shows. I have to wonder, does your conversation go something like this?
Photog- Hey, wanna shoot tfp with me?
Model - Sure, when are you available?
Photog - Saturday at 3pm. Address & Phone# - See ya then!
Model never responds... but photog holds out hope....
Or does the model actually say, Ok, I'll be there.
It seems that something isn't working right....
Photographer
Merlinpix
Posts: 7118
Farmingdale, New York, US
Ah the joys of product photography!
Photographer
Tim Baker-fotoPerfecta
Posts: 9877
Portland, Oregon, US
Iris Swope wrote:
Honestly, all these people with no shows. I have to wonder, does your conversation go something like this?
Photog- Hey, wanna shoot tfp with me?
Model - Sure, when are you available?
Photo - Saturday at 3pm. Address & Phone# - See ya then!
Model never responds... but photog holds out hope....
Or does the model actually say, Ok, I'll be there.
It seems that something isn't working right.... Here's a copy of the confirmation notice we send to all models twice before a shoot:
------------------------
MODEL: {name inserted here]
CONFIRMING
Confirming our shoot for Saturday, November 4, at 3:30pm.
Concept: Robot concept; Port work. AnF if time allows
Phone to call: 503-XXX-XXXX
Location: SSS N Bay Drive, Portland, Oregon, 97210
Light Snacks, Water, and other beverages will be available/served.
If you must cancel, please do so prior to Wednesday at 5 pm.
Thank you very much. I look forward to our shoot. If there are questions prior to the shoot, please don't hesitate to contact me by phone or email.
If you require any special assistance due to a documented physical disability, please let us know 24 hours in advance of the shoot.
PLEASE CONFIRM: Please confirm you received this email and you're good-for-go for Saturday, November 4, 2006, at 3:30 pm.
Cheers, Tim
----------------------------
This is basically what we send out to models as reminders for a shoot - after getting the shot all set - and still they will Confirm and then pull a no-show.
/tim
Photographer
Craiger
Posts: 572
Palm Bay, Florida, US
My opinion is that these models simply do not care. (I think it might be due to an attention span deficit!!).
This will always happen because there are photographers lined up to photograph models. The models know they can pretty much pick and choose who they shoot with. If they want to shoot with someone, they do. If not, no big deal on their part because they'll just pick one of the many others who flood them with tags and offers for shoots.
Ask the model beforehand for references and follow through on getting with others they've worked with. If they are irresponsible and useless, look for another model...
Model
Dances with Wolves
Posts: 25108
SHAWNEE ON DELAWARE, Pennsylvania, US
cisstudio wrote:
First of all, I am not slamming her. As for notifying her, I have already left her a "tag" that indicated that she has missed her scheduled appointment. As for what you precieve as slander, is actually not slander at all. According to the law, the "Truth", is not slander. If the statement made about another is true, then there can be no claim for libel or slander. Furthermore, many courts have also upheld that "resonable belief" that the statement is true can also be successful as a defenese. Show me where I used the word "slander".
I work in law, don't preach it to me.
Model
Dances with Wolves
Posts: 25108
SHAWNEE ON DELAWARE, Pennsylvania, US
Tim Baker wrote:
\Well, it continues to be a problem. Why don't models discuss this on the Model forums (perhaps they do) but the no-shows are giving the professional models a bad rap and this attitude of 'hey, move on' doesn't help either of you. /tim Because it doesn't help and the flakes don't care.
You think it doesn't piss me off that other girls make it hard for those of us that don't flake?!? Sure it does! It's annoying as hell. But there's NOTHING THAT CAN BE DONE ABOUT IT.
If I bitched and moaned as much as these "burned" photographers, I'm sure no one would want to work with my whiny-ass.
-D
Photographer
Image K
Posts: 23400
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
Daniela V wrote:
If you out her, please post her MM number so I can be sure to tell her your slamming her without her knowledge.
Don't be an ass. Stop whining and complaining. Check your references and find better models. There are tons on here that don't flake. You tell 'em, Miss D!
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